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CA is killing Quake.ie
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just read more replies.
Ste: stop, please, youre embarrassing yourself. put up arguments in favor of
ca that actually occur. (Point: people move like 'wildfire' around
the level because you usually cant rj 4 times in succession in non-tp1 games)
Verb: "people play quake because they like it be it CA or Clan matches"
ah shhhh lad. what fool plays a game they dont enjoy? you dont like non-ca then play
ca only. Just dont expect skills of much use to develop.
"For people to try and force others to play ffa ... is pretty pathetic"
doing nothing about it and seeing what a joke our scene is becoming is also pathetic.
what new talent have we? who do you think will replace our current ie team when TE
cut them all off
"As for being lefft behind in Q1 because england got there first that just does not
deserve comment"
..because it's true. Late summer 96 I found GI's site and CT stumbled onto the irish
quake scene. At that time I recall sujoy was winning it big on the european scene.
anyone who can remember will agree, the difference was astounding.
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Perhaps a good idea would be to setup a second CA server. This one would have TP 2 and would be a step up for CA players that want a more challenging game. Where more thought is required and a bit more subtlety.
The original TP 1 server would be available for newbies to learn the essential skills of quake - rjumps, rocket fights etc. ( which CA is briiliant for ).
A TP 2 server would rock, the teamplay 1 thing is the root of all evil IMHO, with TP2 there would be spam but ppl would need more skill to implement - communication with your teammates would be required so they know whos dropping those grenades.
I used to love the whole idea of CA - no thought needed
but the combination of those skills so many irish quake 1ers have now, with thought and a wee bit of intelligence makes for a vicious and more rounded, enjoyable game. 0 -
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Can't we all just play good ol' FFAs like in the really olden days?
My own definition of quake fun would be e1m5 with 8+ players gibbing the ****e out of each other and a race to the top(which i would never be in
)which meant every frag was worth a place in the top rank.
ya know what i mean,fast exciting stuff with none of that teaming, having to listen to other ppls orders and crap.i'm not dissing wars or anything (there aren't enough)but ye gotta say ffa was great fun and it would be worth it if we started playing them again.
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Lo Dev. I have no opinion on CA, its just a mod like artifact quake or something, but it's funny that I get people like Death and Ste, who only play CA, telling me how much I suck at wars and shouldn't be on team ie.
[This message has been edited by Von (edited 14-06-99).]0 -
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I've been playing q1 on and off for over a year now, I enjoy most types of quake.
Every time I start up I'll usually play CA
but then move on to ffa. I first learned how to rl jump properly in CA. Because of it I learned the basics Of quake and have carried them across to other games such as hl:tfc. My aim has improved tenfold over what it was when I first started to play
CA is great for newbies to do just that, and then move on to greater things.
I will say this though, it is one of the best types of Quake
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At this point I would like to point out an actual event.
I joined the CA server on Sunday. Only Critic was there. So me an Critic agree to have a duel. No iffy butty crap, he says '29000?' and I go 'k' and off we go.
Duel server full.
Critic says '28000?'
I say 'K'
I can't get on to the war server without picking a team, I can't pick a team before I join because I don't know what teams there are. It also won't let me spectate.
I end up back on the CA server, I join a game and have a laugh. Critic ends up back there too by the way.
The point of this is. War players/duellers stop whining and moaning. I tried to give it a go (and this isn't the first time either) and the end result was, the only place I could get a game was on the CA server. I am sure mine is not an isolated case.
As for skills:
I learned to rj on CA without needing some script or something. I've been getting practise at one on one rocket fighting. (TP2 would be good 'cos you couldn't use rockets close up or fire into a melee IMO), my aim with the shaft is still crap but improving.
At the minute, the only problem I have with CA is the lack of diversity with the levels. But then again, the problem I have with ffa etc. Is you get killed, everyone has a RL except you. you're screwed for ages until by a stroke of luck (or a great show of superior skill - against experienced FFA players??) you pick up a backpack. CA, you might have to wait around for the next round, but everyone is level in terms of weaponry. It comes down to skill (at CA) and tactics - and yes, in CA there are tactics. Teams that use tactics and support other team members when they need it do tend to win more often rather than be reduced to a race to see who can get pent and quad first.
Sorry, it's Monday, and I've got a ****ty day ahead of me in work and an even ****tier evening after that.
J.0 -
3 things bug me about ca, like:
1. With nothing to pick up, there's no motivation to go anywhere. like duh??
2. everyone spends a good portion of the game observing. like wtf??
3. You can't hurt yourself or teammates. like huh??
Still - most games are only any fun if you're any good at them and I guess if I got more used to the bouncy, spammy, chucky rocket at doory in hopey style of ca I'd like, like it a bit more, like
Overlords idea of a tp 2 server is a good un.0 -
hmmmm
'1. With nothing to pick up, there's no motivation to go anywhere. like duh??'
Motivation to move: you want to have fun. If you don't move you'll be hunted down (campers do worse in CA than wars IMO).
Benefit: Less campers. No one hangs around the RL, no spawn campers. You're not stuck trying to find weapons / armour that everyone seems to be getting to a second before you. Tactics are different.
'2. everyone spends a good portion of the game observing. like wtf??'
Depends. This is not a regular feature. Yes, sometimes the remaining players can spend ages looking for each other. But a lot of times, a win is fairly decisive. Also, CA isn't just about shooting first. Running (knowing when to, and knowing where to run to) is very important as is finding new and novel ways to 'outflank' those chasing you.
Every game needs rules. CA has rules that help it move along smoothly, if not as quickly as everyone would like. If not for the team structure (which really requires the 'waiting' aspect) it would just be FFA with all weapons.
The hurting self etc, I agree with. Well, maybe hurting team-mates. the ability to RJ (even incessantly) is part of CA. And in the end you do pay for it (I love when people run out of rockets and you still have 20! Gives a nice mobility advantage - as well as the damage potential). I thought I saw a patch somewhere that any damage done to team mates is instead taken by the shooter. That would be nice.
also, most of the 'chucky rocky at doory in hopey' style of CA isn't actually without reason. Like any game there are standard tactics. The chuck rock at door as you go past is because that is usually where you would expect to find someone. Are you saying that WAR or FFA players NEVER spam, or shoot off a rocket etc at a place where they 'think' someone might be?
PS. As for spamming. I think the most grenades I have ever lobbed without actually knowing I had a good chance of hitting someone, is 3. otherwise it's just a waste and you never know when you'll need them.
PPS. get in touch with Mike.
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Point is Dev, people who only play CA (and are bad at it) shouldn't bother expressing their opinion about who is good or not at 4v4s or duels or anything else because they are wrong. As for you "defending my right to be on the team". Defending against who exactly?
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Bunny - aww, I used to love camping! But I couldn't do it much because of the torrents of abuse. but *gasp* didn't someone already say that camping was essentially CA? Haven't you just said that that skill is required to win wars? hmmmm, methinks hte wars peeps need to argue unopposing points... By the way, you get the same abuse now that you used to get in a war should you camp (well, most people, everyone KNOWS where Muso is to be found. Makes it easier when you're looking for him )..
Mark - Mike isn't working today, but he should be in the house. as for the shooting debate:
Most CA players, myself included, have areas where, if it is a blind corner, we'll throw a rocket up - on the off chance. In a war (by your reckoning) people don't do that, so in a sense wars breed camping because campers are more likely to get first shot - in a war I would have thought that first shot would be even more important. In CAs the idea isn't one shot one kill, it is shoot, move, shoot (or in my case, shoot, miss, move, walk into someone else's fight and get killed by their miss ).
By breeding campers, and making movement noisy, don't wars etc, fulfill your criteria for 'not encouraging movement....boring..'?? I have 20 rockets (easy to accumulate in a war or duel - look at DM4 for example), I have red armour, I'll now sit still close enough to pent/quad and not move until my timer tells me its in. Or someone sees it and tells me.
As for the amount of rockets. In a war or duel, rockets are essentially infinite (potentially anyway). If you avoid combat you can accumulate rockets all the time. In CA they are a finite amount. You use them to stay as mobile as the others (at the cost of your silent running), it takes more of them to kill an opponent who, through returning fire, is making you dodge and therefore not hit as cleanly. Rockets get wasted hitting camping spots. If the two games aren't even on the usefulness:amount of rocks ratio, then CA actually comes out behind.
Very few people 'spam' to a recognisable extent. I throw a grenade (or two ) behind me if I am concerned about people following. I use them to set off an explosion somewhere I am not, or to make people think I've R-jumped. There are a few spammers, those that send streams of grenades. but they are a minority and it is a dying habit. (it is also quite possible to avoid a steady stream of grenades - try doing that up the lower RA stairs in DM3 - I would consider that a skill!).
The tactics in CA are different. The availability of RJs alters the advantages/disadvantages of the levels from the War way of playing. But that does not mean they are inferior. If you are using level and number of skilled players as a benchmark , please don't forget that Wars and Duels were around first. Bots can play practise for wars etc, of course the level of war or dueller skill will be higher. CA is still relatively new (or rather CA is relatively popular).
Damage Mods:
1. No self hurt
2. Damage to team mates AND self if you hit them (and CA does have a lot of teamwork involved. I find that the teamplayers will usually win and proxy comms is very important - have to get my proxy up and running at some stage)...
3. the health countdown (maybe kicks in when there are only two remaining) but counts in hundreths of remaining health ie: 300H loses 3 per count, 100H loses 1) otherwise, high health will 'wait it out'.
Bug's 200 armour 100 health idea is a good one too, should make war people feel more at home (sorry lads I would fight against pent or quad though).
back to work for me...
(hmm is this post longer than Dev's??)
J.0 -
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