rape claim - 7 premiership footballers

p.pete · 01-10-2003 12:43pm

In fairness Slutmonkey57b (I haven't gone back to check this) most of the mod posts that you are refering to come from sources other then the soccer mods.

It is a very topical issue so I can't see a reason not to talk about it. Certainly anything said should be kept legal for the reasons already stated but it is being monitored and people are being banned for stepping out of line.

eirebhoy · 01-10-2003 12:46pm

Originally posted by Slutmonkey57b
When the mods on this forum are allowing comments like

"how funny would it be if it was man u or arsenal
players"

Well I've seen the players named on a few forums and They've all named players from <*snip*>with most of the names been the same on a few forums.

Ping Chow Chi · 01-10-2003 12:51pm

aye - the sun is now saying its 6 players from one team and two from another. So who knows. I imagine it is going to be bloodly hard to prove what happend that night, one way or the other.

Villain · 01-10-2003 1:01pm

Originally posted by irish1
I think you should try and remember that this girl has accused someone of RAPE, she has undergone medical examination and recieved councelling, so at this present time we have to believe she is telling the truth.

Xterminator

Read my post properly I never said she was telling the truth and I certainly never said anyone was guilty I said "at this present time we have to believe she is telling the truth"

So in future don't go making persumptions as to what I do or don't think.

hierro · 01-10-2003 1:21pm

if you feel like talking to scum about this incident http://www.footballforums.net/news/article_4755.php is still open...

A few things have crept into my mind regarding this.

Firstly, innocent until proven otherwise... previous experiences of false claims of money grabbing and all that... I don't believe it because one of seven people have to have something in the pit of their belly to say, here, this isn't right...

Secondly, the jokes regarding this are in very poor taste and shame on the idiots who further enhanse the soccer lout stereotype...

T

tHE vAGGABOND · 01-10-2003 1:49pm

Are we back to this again? Soccer fans are all idiots rah rah rah!

Keep this thread on topic, if you want to insult soccer fans do it in another thread, or on another message board even better

Just because this is a serious subject, does not mean that someone that tries to lighten the mood is a hooligan. We all know how serious a subject it is. Does that mean as a soccer fan I have to sit here in work with a scowl on my face all day?

Second, boards.ie is a place where all kinds of people can talk about all kinds of things. If we start telling the users of this board what they can and can’t talk about well...well I know I would be off for starters. If I wanted censorship I would move to Burma or somewhere they are good at it!

As long as the people talking about this subject don’t get out of hand, they can say what they want. My lord, perish the thought someone may have a different opinion to the normal Joe on the street!

Thanx 4 The Fish · 01-10-2003 2:15pm

Originally posted by irish1
Xterminator

Read my post properly I never said she was telling the truth and I certainly never said anyone was guilty I said "at this present time we have to believe she is telling the truth"

So in future don't go making persumptions as to what I do or don't think.

Why do we have to believe she is telling the truth, whay can't we believe that she is trying to extract some money from some famous soccer players ? Nobody knows what has gone on except those involved and while it is well and good speculating about it, if you say we have to believe her, then you are essentially saying that the people she has accused are guilty.

It is very easy to accuse somebody of something and once you have made an accusation if you want to be able to get the full impact then make sure you follow all the normal procedures.

I am not saying this girl is lying, what I am saying is that it would be very easy to do so and that if she were to try and extract some money in this manner then she would probably follow the normal rape procedures, report to police, go to hospital etc etc...

Some people would pay money just to have the threat of an accuation of rape quashed. While people are saying X raped me and are getting paid off to keep quiet rather than being taken to court and in a case where they are lying being found out then being prosecuted for it, then people will keep trying it on. Again I must reiterate that I am not saying that this girl is lying.

One more question though, was she seen on cctv having breakfast the following morning with the 7 alleged rapists ??

hussey · 01-10-2003 2:55pm

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
One more question though, was she seen on cctv having breakfast the following morning with the 7 alleged rapists ?? [/B]

I agree with most of T4F points .. just look at teh Quinten Hann (I think it was he) and michael Flatley Rape cases

but I think the CCTV footage is a rumour .. the star(newspaper) said 'A close friend of one of the guys involved has said he had breakfast'

Villain · 01-10-2003 3:22pm

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
Why do we have to believe she is telling the truth, whay can't we believe that she is trying to extract some money from some famous soccer players ? Nobody knows what has gone on except those involved and while it is well and good speculating about it, if you say we have to believe her, then you are essentially saying that the people she has accused are guilty.

Bacuse the police have not dismissed the claim so just like the way the accused are Inoccent until proven Guilty.

Her claim is true until proven false, I think scotland would have been quick to dismiss claim if there wasn't some case!

Thanx 4 The Fish · 01-10-2003 3:40pm

Originally posted by irish1
Bacuse the police have not dismissed the claim so just like the way the accused are Inoccent until proven Guilty.

Her claim is true until proven false, I think scotland would have been quick to dismiss claim if there wasn't some case!

Police have to follow due process, if somebody reports a rape, it has to be investigated even if it is blatant crap (which it may or may not be) . from what you say, that her claim is true until proven false then the accused are Guilty ("the claim is true"...) until prove innocent (.."until proven false"). That is not the way it works.

If I say you raped me (I am not saying this by the way) does that mean that until this is disproven, what I said is true ?

Villain · 01-10-2003 3:52pm

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish

If I say you raped me (I am not saying this by the way) does that mean that until this is disproven, what I said is true ?

Yes IMHO, but I'm NOT saying you done it I'm just saying it happened.

Maybe thats bull but its only my opinion

edited sorry I forgot the NOT

eirebhoy · 01-10-2003 3:57pm

I was just watching an exlusive with Bobby Robson on Sky Sports News about the rumours of his resignation. The interviewer didn't really want to talk about the resignation he asked Bobby over five times if the players are trouble makers etc. which shows what he ws trying to get at but Bobby didn't sound like anything had happened off the pitch.
Only time will tell.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 01-10-2003 3:59pm

So by that token you are gulity of rape until what I said is disproven.

This would be a bif of an odd way to run a justice system in any country with people guilty until proven innocent the whole country could end up in jail.

Benbaz · 01-10-2003 4:24pm

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
So by that token you are gulity of rape until what I said is disproven.

This would be a bif of an odd way to run a justice system in any country with people guilty until proven innocent the whole country could end up in jail.

As far as I know, that is how it works in France. When you're charged of something it's up to "you" to prove your innocence!! Which I think is a mad system, but they'd probably say the same about ours.

And as far as this case is concerned all of the 7 are innocent until proven guilty, end of!!

And as far as the law is concerned the girl in question is not necessarily telling the truth she has only made a claim against the 7 or however many are allegedly involved and until it is proven otherwise it is only a claim.

The thing that makes me extremely sceptical about this case is the fact that on the front page of the S*n this morning their leading story was the girl involved telling her story.
Like c'mon wtf??? She's just been brutally raped (allegedly) by a gang of men and one of her first reactions is to go and tell/sell her story to the press!!!

Have we learned nothing from the John Leslie/Matthew Kelly?Michael Flately cases?? Obviously not!!
The sad thing about these cases and many like them is that a man can be accused of a crime like this by a woman who gets to remain anonymous while the man has to face the ordeal of trial by press which totally goes against the ethos of the law, i.e. Innocent until proven otherwise.

I'd finally just like to say that if these allegations are found to be true, I think, and I'm sure everybody will agree, that the book should be thrown at all those found to be guilty in a court of law but until then it's SPECULATION.

B.

Villain · 01-10-2003 4:28pm

Originally posted by irish1
Yes IMHO, but I'm NOT saying you done I'm just saying it happened.

Maybe thats bull but its only my opinion [/B]

sorry I meant NOT,

busy here sorry

Rumours of the players names are still being posted on the net:
[snip]Removed link to site with names, aI am not sure how this works legally but is better to be safe than sorry[/snip]
not sure if this is allowed so if not, Gandalf & other Mods I apologise.

The Clown Man · 02-10-2003 12:34am

Just so you know, reputedly, in the legal world, this one is tipped to be the big crackdown on contempt of court and libelous publication on the internet in the UK. And this will most likely reach Ireland.

Basically, whereas before, a website could say what they liked and no one would be arsed suing them, this time it looks like a likely defence in this case would be to show that everyone has been affected by rumours spread by offending websites and hence the defendants have lost the right to a fair trial because the jury has been duly affected and influenced. And if this particular defense works the case will be thrown out and there may be a major session of kick-internet-scum-ass with contempt of court set in motion by the now blood-thirsty courts.

Now this particular defense was attempted on this scale in the X case which some of you may remember and it failed. But apparently they are just looking for an excuse to start the legal ball rolling on the www. They will also try to sue the sheet out of everyone that tries to publish it as fact. (Or as a libelous defamation.)

Boards.ie is not publishing libelous statements thanks to the mods, but you may yet be in some way in contempt of court. Of course this charge is only applicable in England, not our legal jurisdiction, but nonetheless, tread lightly. The fan will be covered in shít by the end of this.

Down with this sort of thing.
Careful now!

The Clown Man · 02-10-2003 12:44am

Oh, and, remember that just recently that the Gardaí published that they were not dealing instantly with rape claims anymore because 95% of them were false.

Not defending the players just keeping things in perspective.

kamobe · 02-10-2003 10:29am

Today's Indo says that Daily Sport is gonna be taken to court for printing the correct names in yesterdays eidition. So - did anyone actualy buy it?

If so eh, don't PM me or anything

LoneGunM@n · 02-10-2003 10:31am

I agree with the Mods regarding the naming of the club(s) and player(s) involved .... the player(s) allegedly involved in the alleged rape are entitled to their right of innocent until proven guilty and the alleged victim is entitled to her claims being taken serious and investigated through the rigours of due process

IMO, if the alleged player(s) in question are found through due process to guilty of the rape allegations, the book should be thrown at them!!

It was said in a previous reply that she had gone to the press before the police ... if this is the case, is she not prevented from taking a case against the alleged player(s) - wasn't this the reason why 1 of the alleged victims in the John Lesley saga was forced to drop her case??

The Brigadier · 02-10-2003 2:33pm

I have just heard a rumour that Sky will not be showing football this weekend.

Because the rumours are now so widespread they do not want to face a libel charge for broadcasting the sound of fans chanting these names....

eirebhoy · 02-10-2003 2:45pm

Originally posted by James Melody
I have just heard a rumour that Sky will not be showing football this weekend.

Because the rumours are now so widespread they do not want to face a libel charge for broadcasting the sound of fans chanting these names....

Thats just a rumour. There is definitely no truth in that. No legal action could be taken against Sky as they have no control over what is said in the crowd. I saw in the paper last week that some morning program were filming live in a shop and there was a woman topless in the background. There was no legal action taken against them.

irishdeej · 02-10-2003 5:18pm

If these players are charged, will their names be in the public?

I think these players names should be available, because it is extremely unfair for all those players who are NOT under investigation. But are being hounded by gossip and the like.

eirebhoy · 03-10-2003 12:38pm

The player who the 17 year old agreed to have sex with is said in the Sun to be a Chelsea player. He is been questioned by police and he said to be the key to to the inquiry.

Full story:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003452762,00.html

Hairy Homer · 03-10-2003 12:44pm

If the Daily Mirror is to be believed, it won't be long now before a public statement is made by a Premiership club.

therecklessone · 03-10-2003 12:45pm

Originally posted by irishdeej
If these players are charged, will their names be in the public?

I think these players names should be available, because it is extremely unfair for all those players who are NOT under investigation. But are being hounded by gossip and the like.

Slightly twisted logic there.

Name the seven alledged rapists so THEY can be hounded by "gossip and the like"...and if they are found innocent? Is it only fair to hound somebody if they are accused of a crime? Regardless of their innocence or otherwise?

Much better to stop hounding people full stop. The tabloid gutter press sickens me. Leave this to the proper authorites, i.e. the Police and CPS.

darktooth · 03-10-2003 1:37pm

I heard it was the [snip]no speculation please[/snip] players after the Friday night game.
Did anyone else hear that ?

The SKY website has a story that Villa have issued a statement saying that their club was not involved and is not under investigation.

eirebhoy · 03-10-2003 1:40pm

Don't be posting speculation on these boards darktooth. I'd advise you to edit your post.

Davey Devil · 03-10-2003 3:01pm

The Sun Have released a picture of the player(although it blurred out) who's room it was where the incident took place but was said not to be involved. I presume it's ok to post this since it's in The Sun. Credit:The Sun [IMG][/img]http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2003451176,00.jpg

Mossy Monk · 03-10-2003 3:27pm

why would they bother having that picture. it shows absolutely nothing that could give it away

Thanx 4 The Fish · 03-10-2003 3:28pm

It seems to be more for these papers about letting us know that they know without telling us then when the names are released they can come back and say I told ya so...

KdjaCL · 03-10-2003 4:21pm

From recent reports when Sunderland play this weekend their fans have been asked not to chant certain players names.

Can only imagine how the chairman writes it in his program and what are the fans going to chant.

Should be fairly obvious to all after that match who the players are.

Although when charged their names will be made public although werent John Leslie and that other guy named the moment the claim was made.

Hang em by their balls me thinks.

kdjac

irishdeej · 03-10-2003 4:46pm

I am fed up with who these players are or not.

[snip]Sorry, nobody here KNOWS who these players are, there has been some speculation but that is about the height of it[/snip]

Thanks.

Caesar_Bojangle · 03-10-2003 8:16pm

Originally posted by Mossy Monk
why would they bother having that picture. it shows absolutely nothing that could give it away

If you squint, you can just about tell that the player in the picture is black.

mike65 · 03-10-2003 11:17pm

Originally posted by Caesar_Bojangle
If you squint, you can just about tell that the player in the picture is black.

Which narrows it down to 25% of the Premiership player pool!

Mike.

*Damn, I said to myself I was'nt going to contribute to this thread*

Dotsie~tmp · 03-10-2003 11:35pm

The Magpies

One for sorrow
Two for joy
Three for a girl
Four for a boy
Five for silver
Six for gold
Seven for a secret never to be told

ella minnow pea · 04-10-2003 1:27pm

that villa statement is putting alot of pressure on the other clubs that were in town to do the same innit

jank · 04-10-2003 2:55pm

at least these allagations will take the media spotlight of arsenal

the tabloids are having a field day!!!

it would [snip] be great if everybody stopped posting their guesses about who it was and what team they played for [/snip]

p.pete · 06-10-2003 9:16am

Jon Ostenbor of Liverpool got done in the ass over the weekend - could be a follow up incident:D

Ping Chow Chi · 06-10-2003 9:27am

The papers on Sunday where saying that Dyer was 'the England star' that was implicated in this, but that he has been since cleared as he has a cast iron aliby. (News of the world). They said that Dyer had booked all the rooms that the people where using and that was all his involvement.

It also had the man who arranged the thing. He said it was 'only' 4 males, of which only 2 where footballers. And of course he said the girl went along with it all of her own free will....

I only named the player that was mentioned in a national paper, they even plasterd his face on their front page, so I assume this is OK as its in the public domian now.

Ronaldo7 · 06-10-2003 11:52am

Originally posted by p.pete
Jon Ostenbor of Liverpool got done in the ass over the weekend - could be a follow up incident:D

Thats a pretty brain dead comment don't you think considering this is such a serious allegation?:rolleyes:

p.pete · 06-10-2003 12:01pm

Yes it is a serious alegation but I'm imagining that most of the speculation surrounding it will prove to have been blown out of proportion if all the details ever come out.

I hope that justice is done - whatever that involves as I don't claim to know what happens. I'm not going to loose sleep over it however and if I choose to make light of the situation you are entitled to ignore me...

Ronaldo7 · 06-10-2003 12:09pm

I'm not going to loose sleep over it however and if I choose to make light of the situation you are entitled to ignore me...

Oh I can see you won't lose any sleep over it alright if you were ignorant enough to make a comment like that. What you have to understand is that rape(whether this allegation is true or not) does not have a funny side to it and you should not try to "make light of the situation".

marct · 06-10-2003 12:17pm

Ok, ok pull yer neck in a small bit newbie! Calm down and read some of P.pete's posts and you will see that he isnt ignorant of the situation. Sheesh:rolleyes:

p.pete · 06-10-2003 12:17pm

Are you going to loose sleep over it? If you are then you are a more caring person then I am (obviously you are anyway). I am totally removed from the situation and it doesn't really have too much impact on my life appart from the fact that the press think upon it as being news worthy - largely due to who is involved.

p.pete · 06-10-2003 12:20pm

btw, that last post was an attack on the press and not a defence of rape which is a terrible crime. Lots of stuff happens in the world that we should be told about but instead we are more likely to be aware that david and victoria had an argument.

Ronaldo7 · 06-10-2003 12:21pm

There just is no funny side to rape.

Ill leave it at that.

p.pete · 06-10-2003 12:26pm

Has anyone noticed the serious amounts of views that this thread is getting? more then twice that of any previous tread on the football forum. If my seriously unfunny and tasteless joke starts doing the rounds remember you heard it here first...

JohnnyBravo · 06-10-2003 2:58pm

Could be a load of bollocks to since she went straight to the papers

sharkman · 07-10-2003 2:54pm

Report from Sky Sports ...

Nicholas Meikle said he slept with the girl and that two other Premiership players and a fourth man also had sex with her.

He insisted it was with her full consent, saying: "No one got heavy with her, this was normal."

Lemming · 07-10-2003 2:57pm

Originally posted by sharkman
He insisted it was with her full consent, saying: "No one got heavy with her, this was normal."

Now this is where my "innocent until proven guilty" attitude towards the players begins to get doubts. This was "normal" for whom exactly? Group sex isn't exactly a normal thing (as far as "normal" things go if you follow).

rape claim - 7 premiership footballers

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