Our International Stadium...

Tellox

As Fifa have already made clear, they will not tolerate the use of bucket seats in Lansdowne Road, when the current Euro 2004 qualifying campaign is over.

Currently, about 11,000 portable seats are being brought in for the matches.

So it boils down to this; Either we're granted permission to use Croke park, we start building a new stadium, or We'll be playing our world cup qualifiers at Anfield/Old Trafford.

Personally, I can see us playing our qualifiers across the water next year...

jongore

Chances are that it'll be still Landsdowne with a reduced capacity. (Little over 20,000)

Even if the go ahead for the national stadium came through this week how long would a project of that size take to build?

Croke park actualy let a 'furiners' sport be played! (Besides American Football that is) Perish the day!

Anfield/OT? How many people would make the trip? Your adding the best part of €300 for a trip to these places as it is, would enough people go to make it woth the FAIs time?

qwertyup

Even if the go ahead for the national stadium came through this week how long would a project of that size take to build?

From the Irish Times article on the topic it seems that FIFA might allow the temporary seating to continue, but only in the case that the government got off their asses and made a rock solid commitment to both the building and planning of a new or revamped stadium. The prospect of a possible investigation into the resources needed for the development of a project team to consider how to organise a design process is not going to cut any water, but chances are that is the sort of cull**** that will be pulled.

I just want a nice stadium. Is that so much to ask in this country

eirebhoy

The government wanted to add less then a kilometer onto the Luas, form Connelly to the Point, which would cost €50 million and it would only be used by a tiny amount of people while they won't even consider putting OUR money together with the IRFU and the FAI to build a stadium. This stadium which is supposed to be getting sorted is the only reason I want Bertie to stay on as he is the only person that will fight for one.

p.pete

If we start to redevelop Lansdowne what do we do in the interim? Will we be relegated to Tolka or Dalymount?

eirebhoy

Originally posted by p.pete
If we start to redevelop Lansdowne what do we do in the interim? Will we be relegated to Tolka or Dalymount?

I'm sure they'd do small bits at a time so we can still play there like they did in Croke Park.

Kone

lol at p.pete! Dalyer for Internationals! Never again!

p.pete

Maybe we could play in Santry Stadium, we would be a laughing stock and the GAA would offer Croker out of pity and to stop the international laughter...

dsab

The question I am asking myself all the time is, why is the proposed stadium this expenisve? Will they build it with pure gold, or what ?

Currently they are building loads of new Stadiums in the UK, Germany and Italy, and none of them is as expensive.

For example... the "Arena auf Schalke" has cost around 175 mil. Euro. It has 62000 seats, the roof can be closed, the pitch can be transported outside the stadium, it has a huge Video Cube under the roof and much more... why has an Irish Stadium that has less to offer to cost at least three times the money....

Would the new stadium only cost 200 Mill., I am sure they would already have started. No big dicussions by anyone...

http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/projects/arena_auf_shalke/

eirebhoy

rip off ireland!!!:mad:

JaneyMackers

The problem could be so easily sovled if the GAA would enter the 21st Century and allow its ground be used.

How many times will it be used now the all irelands are over? Not much.

Who's money was used to pay for much of the redevelopment of the stadium? Taxpayers money. If the majority of taxpayers feel it should be opened to other sports then it should.

Its a state of the art stadium that will hold 80,000. Can you imagine a Football International or Rugby for the matter in such an atmosphere. It would be great.

People talk about laughing stock, we already are. Lansdowne is the oldest Rugby Stadium in the world. It certainly looks that part.

JM

Villain

Originally posted by JaneyMackers
The problem could be so easily sovled if the GAA would enter the 21st Century and allow its ground be used.

This has been debated on the GAA forum in a sticky thread and the poll shows ove 80% support the stadium being opened.

But the GAA board would rather our national side played the foreign sport in the UK!!!

What a pack of narrow minded ****.ers

talla

Because practically every single civil engineering project in the state goes over budget. I have a friend who is a project manager for one of the big construction firms in the country and the amount of siphoning of material and scavenging that goes onsite is unbelievable. And its not just at the bottom level, its all the way from top to bottom of the construction industry, every single day cement trucks being redirected from sites to nixers and their own houses(Foreman/engineeres), glass, fittings, timber, wiring etc etc. That is why a stadium in Ireland will cost so much to build.

Originally posted by dsab
The question I am asking myself all the time is, why is the proposed stadium this expenisve? Will they build it with pure gold, or what ?

Currently they are building loads of new Stadiums in the UK, Germany and Italy, and none of them is as expensive.

For example... the "Arena auf Schalke" has cost around 175 mil. Euro. It has 62000 seats, the roof can be closed, the pitch can be transported outside the stadium, it has a huge Video Cube under the roof and much more... why has an Irish Stadium that has less to offer to cost at least three times the money....

Would the new stadium only cost 200 Mill., I am sure they would already have started. No big dicussions by anyone...

http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/projects/arena_auf_shalke/

decob

Originally posted by eireboy
I'm sure they'd do small bits at a time so we can still play there like they did in Croke Park.

emm don't think thats possible as the plan for landsdowne involved moving the pitch 90degrees and building onto the pitches behind.

Praetorian

[bittermode] The solution to this problem is simple. The matches should be played in Croke park. There is no reason for a small country like Ireland to have 2 massive stadia. Croke park is virtually unused for half the year. I prefer gaelic football to soccer, but there is no reason why soccer shouldn’t be played in Croker. The country definitely can’t afford to splash out at the moment. If we did, we would with out a doubt, get ripped off completely; just like the Luas system. Just like everything in Ireland really. [/bittermode off]

Lansdowne road is an embarrassment. Tiny little cities in England have far superior stadia! The GAA should be forced or convinced to let soccer on to their hallowed ground.

tHE vAGGABOND

yea its a scandal really..

croker was built with public money, 50 million here, 40 million there from the government now and then..

They should not be allowed just close it up.

Imposter

Was watching this thread with interest just waiting for one of these responses.

Now I know that i've put these views already in the GAA thread but i'll do it again here as others seem to be repeating their stances on this here too.

Originally posted by JaneyMackers
The problem could be so easily sovled if the GAA would enter the 21st Century and allow its ground be used.

If the FAI had the foresight/willingness to build their own stadium there'd be no problem.

How many times will it be used now the all irelands are over? Not much.

Would soccer have wanted it for the Australia and/or Russia matchs? Would the FAI not organise matches whenever the GAA wants the pitch or would they go off whinging?

Who's money was used to pay for much of the redevelopment of the stadium? Taxpayers money. If the majority of taxpayers feel it should be opened to other sports then it should.

How much taxpayers money? Has the FAI ever got taxpayers money? If so what have they to show for it?

Its a state of the art stadium that will hold 80,000. Can you imagine a Football International or Rugby for the matter in such an atmosphere. It would be great.

It would if most of the people there were real supporters but of late either these 'supporters' have been so overawed by the sense of occasion or they're too busy with their prawn sandwiches.

Originally posted by Irish1
But the GAA board would rather our national side played the foreign sport in the UK!!!

AFAIK they've no problem if our soccer team play in Landsdowne!

What a pack of narrow minded ****.ers

See my above comment about FAI building their own stadium and then talk about narrow minded ****.ers. Also think about the infrastructure soccer have in this country and compare it ot the GAA. The GAA has invested in stadia all down the years while soccer hasn't.

I believe a country like Ireland that's supposedly in the first world should have a national stadium. I think those who suggest that money would be better spent elsewhere are a bigger problem than the GAA. After all these people generally suggest that the money be spent on healthcare and the like. Should money be pumped inot healthcare forever with no noticable improvement? IMO no. A certain amount of money should be spent each year on Stadia, parks, playgrounds etc.

I am not anti soccer, far from it, but i am anti this mentality that they have a right to play and do what the hell they want.

p.pete

The FAI do not have a right to play soccer in Croker Imposter, if they had it would have already happened. Croke should be the national stadium though, anything that gets built is unlikely to compare well to it without costing way over the odds. I would rather see the money spent on the black holes of education and health.

Soccer in Croke would benifit both parties. Financially the GAA needed soccer and were about to vote in favour until the government gave them funds a day or two before the vote (that's how I remember it).

Villain

Originally posted by Imposter
!

See my above comment about FAI building their own stadium and then talk about narrow minded ****.ers. Also think about the infrastructure soccer have in this country and compare it ot the GAA. The GAA has invested in stadia all down the years while soccer hasn't.

This is about about our national side not the FAI league

Imposter

Irish1.
I think the first sentence there applies equally well in both cases.

Now answer me this: Why do soccer supporters never seem to blame the FAI for not having a stadium? For me they should definitely be the first to be blamed and not the government or the GAA.

bucks73

On the Croker thing, I think its totally wrong that the GAA have received so much in government funding and yet they only allow their own games to be played there. I will never go to a GAA game there and yet my taxes have gone into it.

I was over in Oz a couple of years ago and couldnt believe the stadiums they have. In a country with a population of about 14 million they have enough stadiums in Sydney and Melbourne alone to make us look like a third world country.

It should be a priority for a government of a "sporting country" to have a national stadium where all sports can be played.

p.pete

Imposter, it is a ridiculous notion to think that we don't blame the FAI. They have been a crap organisation for years and everyone knows this. If we are left waiting for them to build a stadium it will not happen.

Regardless of that, why do we need 2 national stadiums? The GAA would get plenty of revenue from soccer matches, soccer would save money and we would have a higher capacity stadium in a short period of time.

Imposter

Originally posted by p.pete
Imposter, it is a ridiculous notion to think that we don't blame the FAI. They have been a crap organisation for years and everyone knows this. If we are left waiting for them to build a stadium it will not happen.

Regardless of that, why do we need 2 national stadiums? The GAA would get plenty of revenue from soccer matches, soccer would save money and we would have a higher capacity stadium in a short period of time.

We need 'a' national stadium that is usable by everyone. I can't see how this happens with Croke Park. If Rugby, Soccer, Athletics (if they need a big stadium for whatever reason) and whatever other sports were to have the use of Croke Park it would have to be under the GAA's conditions. Now I'd be pretty sure the first one would be that they'd be no using the stadium between June and end of Sept (or middle of October if Compromise rules are on). Do you think that's possible?

I'd be sure special exceptions could be made to that but I could imagine soccer wanting this exception every year or at least every 2 years. That to me is not an exception.

Second issue is with the residents. As it is they aren't particularly happy with the amount of games there. Although most of those living in the area would (probably) be soccer rather than GAA fans would they just drop all these objections (I'm thinking of the objections to GAA matches and not the soccer matches here)?

Or are you suggesting that the GAA transfer ownership of Croker over to the government (because they financed a minority share of it) to do as they wish with it?

cournioni

Originally posted by Imposter
Now answer me this: Why do soccer supporters never seem to blame the FAI for not having a stadium? For me they should definitely be the first to be blamed and not the government or the GAA.

I totally agree with you there.

p.pete

The residents are never going to be happy, regardless of the scarfs being worn. I agree with you that croke can't really be an international stadium, but if one was to be built it would either be separte of people like the FAI or else include them all(which would cause many headaches).

In the absence of a national stadium we could play a few soccer games at croke and refurbish lansdowne stand by stand without too much disruption - it is still suitable for friendlies and matches that conflict with the championship.

Villain

Originally posted by Imposter
Irish1.
I think the first sentence there applies equally well in both cases.

Now answer me this: Why do soccer supporters never seem to blame the FAI for not having a stadium? For me they should definitely be the first to be blamed and not the government or the GAA.

I do blaim the FAI for not having a Soccer stadium, what I don't blaim the FAI for is the ignorance of the GAA to refuse the national soccer and RUGBY teams play in Croker while there is not stadium.

The GAA has recieved tax payers cash which went towards croke park lets not forget that.

Imposter

Originally posted by irish1
I do blaim the FAI for not having a Soccer stadium, what I don't blaim the FAI for is the ignorance of the GAA to refuse the national soccer and RUGBY teams play in Croker while there is not stadium.

Why is it ignorance?

The GAA has recieved tax payers cash which went towards croke park lets not forget that. [/B]

I haven't forgot it. Address the points I made above as to how it would work.

And let's not forget that the FAI was also going to get money for their eircom Park project.

p.pete

Irish1, in fairness to the GAA they got off their backsides and went looking for that money and they also secured it from a lot of other sources. They showed great vision and determination in the development and have every right to be now laughing at the FAI.

The FAI are laughable and will probably never deliver a stadium. If there is 6 or 7 irish internationals per year then playing the bigger 3 or 4 in croke is surely benificial to both.

eirebhoy

If we had have won the bid to host the European Championships with Scotland we would've had to have two stadiums with at least 30,000 seats which means we would have to use Croke park and either refurbish Lansdowne Road or build a new stadium. Since we didn't win the bid all we need is one of the above but its all forgotten about.

I remember seeing in the Irish Times a few months ago that the government/FAI were deciding what to do about a stadium and they mentioned Lansdowne Road, Ringsend and that place were it was planned the first time. Is nothing happening anymore?

Villain

Originally posted by Imposter
Why is it ignorance?
I haven't forgot it. Address the points I made above as to how it would work.

And let's not forget that the FAI was also going to get money for their eircom Park project.

International Soccer and Rugby matches are planned normally a year to 2 years in advacne except friendlys which can be easily organised around events. I'm not saying Croker is a permanent solution I don't want it to be one but I do want our national tems to play in a good stadium while a solution doesn't excist.

Imposter

Originally posted by irish1
International Soccer and Rugby matches are planned normally a year to 2 years in advacne except friendlys which can be easily organised around events. I'm not saying Croker is a permanent solution I don't want it to be one but I do want our national tems to play in a good stadium while a solution doesn't excist.

That's true but it still doesn't solve the problem of/with the residents. They're hardly likely to agree if it's a short term solution as they can't to well dissagree as soon as soccer finishes playing there.

Villain

Originally posted by Imposter
That's true but it still doesn't solve the problem of/with the residents. They're hardly likely to agree if it's a short term solution as they can't to well dissagree as soon as soccer finishes playing there.

well thats a differnent argument, Its years since I've been to croker (eire og were in the club final), so I can't say whether or not the residents would have a problem, but we'r not talking about a huge number of games are we

p.pete

Residents complaining is always going to be an issue whether there is one game a year or thirty. What the government should do is put the whole up for an urban redevelopment plan. Kick all the residents out and rehouse them, build a better infrastructure and all problems will be solved... (may have to close a few hospitals to implement this though).

smemon

its a disgrace we have a massive state of the art stadium (croker) which wont open its doors to irish soccer. after all, the stadium isnt really theirs in the first place, government funded most of it.

gaa are selfish arrongant heartless people that wont move on and stop this nonsense of gaa games only. landsdowne is falling apart and would do but for these new regulations. croker would be filled no bother and atmosphere would be second to none.

government should step in and force the gaa to open its gates to soccer.

growler

Croke Park is the GAA's stadium they are perfectly within their rights to deny it's use for games that are directly competing with their sports. It would be stupid in the extreme for the GAA to undermine its own supporter base by allowing soccer or rugby to be played there. If they give in once then public pressure will be worse the second time round. If the FAI had it's priorities straight they would have built a stadium ten times over with all the gate and tv revenue they have received in the last 20 years but they are a bunch of useless @rseholes and do not deserve to be bailed out of their incompetence by the GAA. Let Irish soccer look after Irish soccer and let the GAA look after their own (which they are quite good at)

The Muppet

its a disgrace we have a massive state of the art stadium (croker) which wont open its doors to irish soccer. after all, the stadium isnt really theirs in the first place, government funded most of it.

Its the GAA that have this stadium not us. The money funded by the government/Taxpayers is a fraction of what is being quoted for a new stadium.

I would love to see soccer at croker but that said I dont blame the GAA for not letting the FAI use it. If they hadn,t squandered the millions they made/or should have during the past 15 years they could have had their own stadium.

Soccer will be played at croker in the near future as the stadium is a drain on the GAA resouces and they can not afford to continue to turn away the money soccer will generate for them.

jesus_thats_gre

I have not read the other posts, so I am not sure if this has been said already..

The only reason they will not allow it is because it is an English sport. It is nothing to do with them not wanting other sports using it as they have allowed American Football and so on to be played there.

In my opinion, this is blatant sectarianism and would not be accepted in any other country in Europe. The legality of the GAA's stance should be questionioned at the highest level, at an EU level.

smemon

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre

The only reason they will not allow it is because it is an English sport. It is nothing to do with them not wanting other sports using it as they have allowed American Football and so on to be played there.

exactly what i think, didnt want to say it cause i knew everyone would be on my back. what happened to the cead mile failte and irish hospitality gaa, eh?? after all, you'd be helping your fellow irishmen.

Aindriu

the country is crying out for a new stadium for rugby and soccer. build it out in abbotstown. well use it for sure.

This is not Cambodia!!

we should have a poll on this. why dont we build it????


Get the portugese builders in

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by smemon
exactly what i think, didnt want to say it cause i knew everyone would be on my back. what happened to the cead mile failte and irish hospitality gaa, eh?? after all, you'd be helping your fellow irishmen.

Once once we agree...

eirebhoy

I've just been googling for info on this Stadium Ireland project and the most recent archive I found was on April 15th and it said that the FAI and the IRFU were going to give there choice of what to do about a stadium on April 28th but there has been nothing else released since then.

Has there been any news since mid-April?

spex

Two little boys
Had two little toys,
Each had a wooden horse;
Gaily they played
Each summer's day -
Warriors both of course.
One little chap
Then had a mishap,
Broke off his horse's head;
Cried for his toy,
Then cried for joy
As his young playmate said:

"Did you think I would leave you crying
When there's room on my horse for two?
Climb up here, Jack. we'll soon be flying;
I can go just as fast with two.
When we grow up we'll both be soldiers,
And our horses will not be toys;
And I wonder if we'll remember
When we were two little boys."


....seems pretty apt.

Lennoxschips

Well, the GAA were going to open up Croke Park a few years ago but Bertie, in all his wisdom, didn't want them to so he would have an excuse to build his Bertie Bowl.

In a similar act of stupidity, the Irish people then re-elected the man.

Oswald Osbourne

Ladies, don't worry about it!

Once we've been forced into playing a few of our 'home matches' in England (or wherever) the government will be SHAMED into building a national stadium.

So if you REALLY want a national stadium to be built in this country then you should be WELCOMING us upping sticks and having to move to the mainland for a season or two. Such a scenario is the ONLY one that will EVER get our government to get off it's collective arse to do something about the situation.

I guarentee you that within 24 hours of us playing our first 'home game' outside of Ireland the first bricks of our national stadium will already have been laid. That's the way this country works.

Tellox

Could you imagine playoffs with england in that condition?

"The home match will be played at Anfield, and the away match will be played at Old Trafford...."

Imposter

Originally posted by smemon
its a disgrace we have a massive state of the art stadium (croker) which wont open its doors to irish soccer. after all, the stadium isnt really theirs in the first place, government funded most of it.

Yes the stadium is the GAA's. Jones Rd. (as in the ground it's on) has been the GAA's for decades (back to around 1900 iirc). Secondly the government funded part of the stadium and definitely not a majority of it.

gaa are selfish arrongant heartless people that wont move on and stop this nonsense of gaa games only. landsdowne is falling apart and would do but for these new regulations. croker would be filled no bother and atmosphere would be second to none.

I'm assuming you don't like GAA with that view. I'd just like to hear what you think of the FAI. After all they are the ones that should be providing Irish soccer with a pitch to play on and not the government or (especially) the GAA.

government should step in and force the gaa to open its gates to soccer.

I don't think the government could force the GAA to do anything. The money that was given for Croker wasa donation with no strings attached. As a result the government (and rightly so) have no say in what hapens in Croker.

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
The only reason they will not allow it is because it is an English sport. It is nothing to do with them not wanting other sports using it as they have allowed American Football and so on to be played there.

That's a once off. Concerts are also once offs. There's a difference with them and regular use of the stadium.

Why was there none of this sh1te from soccer fans before the new stadium was built? After all the old croker used to hold a lot more than Landsdowne!

Aindriu

I dont see what the problem in building a new 65,000 -> 80,000 stadium is.

Every country builds them and they run at a loss so what.

It will help develop rubgy and soccer and no doubt bring a lot more people out to the games.

Im stick of having GAA stuck in my face for half the year and who wants to play second fiddle to the likes of the GAA. They can shove their stadium and paddy football.

And Cork needs a smaller stadium as well !! 40,000 ->45,000

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Aindriu
I dont see what the problem in building a new 65,000 -> 80,000 stadium is.

I'd say out of every country in Europe it would cost a lot more to build a stadium in this country for some strange reason. Also, if a national stadium is built in England, Germany, Spain, Italy, France, etc. it would be paid for by the Football association as they get a lot more money than the FAI. For example the English FA got over a billion (I think) from Sky for television coverage.

But as I said before the government want to build a useless 1km extension onto the LUAS which would cost €50million, why can't they put that kind of money into the project. The government would need to fund between €350- €400 million for a stadium (taking into account the funds from FAI/IRFU), if they didn't spend millions on useless stuff like LUAS extensions, planes Bertie wage increases, etc. I'm sure they would get the money up no problem. Also, I'm sure the FAI/IRFU would get more money into the project if needed.

eirebhoy

Also, as someone said earlier that a 62,000 stadium was built in Germany for €175 million, how the hell is it going to cost €500million over here. Where does the extra costs come into? it can't be land as land is not going to cost 100's of millions. If we could built it at that price the government would hardly need to fund any money.

Any ideas why there is such a difference in price???

growler

any land zoned for such development might suddenly rise in price , usually as a result of nefarious dealings and compulsory purchase orders.

Aindriu, what kind of ridiculous statement is
"I dont see what the problem in building a new 65,000 -> 80,000 stadium is.Every country builds them and they run at a loss so what. It will help develop rubgy and soccer and no doubt bring a lot more people out to the games.Im stick of having GAA stuck in my face for half the year and who wants to play second fiddle to the likes of the GAA. They can shove their stadium and paddy football. And Cork needs a smaller stadium as well !! 40,000 ->45,000"

Problem is very simple : money, the govt. has plenty but many deluded people would think it's better spent on essentials such as health and education and would prefer to see their tax spent on essential services, weird eh? Runs at a loss, so what indeed, we can pay more tax then to cover it , or up the price of a pint maybe ?
If the GAA are harassing you, call the cops , I think it's very unfair of them to be stuck in your face for half the year.
Paddy Football, indeed it is cheeky in the extreme for an organisation such as the GAA to want to promote themselves and encourage people to play our national sport, maybe you could start a petition to ban it or maybe they could change the rules to be more like soccer ? alternatively you could move to the UK so as not to be confronted with paddy football, paddy shops, paddy off licences and pubs , I even saw a paddy funeral home the other day , disgraceful !!

Cork should really have a 45,000 seater it's becoming quite commonplace in da capital for over 20% of the entire local population to turn out to sporting events.

:rolleyes:

smemon

the fai are a shambles and are similar to the current government. gaa is a small sport, no international coverage or overseas competitions. croke park is wasted with these small sports.

im not into gaa as it doesnt involve an ounce of skill or creativity. it doesnt take a genius to hoof a ball over 2 posts. soccer has everything and a huge worldwide following. gaa is an illegal version of soccer (u can handle the ball) has bigger goals, and u can foul alot more. anyway, thats why i'll stick to my soccer.

its undoubtably the fai's fault for not building a stadium although the government promised them one so really its the governments too.

bottom line, 11000 people will be bitterly disappointed during the next tournament qualifiers. fai will lose revenue and atmosphere will decrease which could effect results. thanks alot bertie and fai. some country this is.