Our International Stadium...

Lennoxschips

Well, the FAI were going to build a stadium (which would be opening just about....-now-), but Bertie Ahern, in all his wisdom, blocked it by getting the Air Corps to make up some cock and bull story about flight paths.

growler

posted by smemon

im not into gaa as it doesnt involve an ounce of skill or creativity

good one.... ROTFLMAO

The Muppet

and having to move to the mainland for a season or two

Did i miss something, Since when do we have mainland.


I think whoever said its not up to the GAA to help that shower of
wasters in the FAI ws spot on.

Well, the FAI were going to build a stadium (which would be opening just about....-now-),

Well what stopped them from going ahead on a different site?
Is the money still available?

Aindriu

Problem is very simple : money, the govt. has plenty but many deluded people would think it's better spent on essentials such as health and education and would prefer to see their tax spent on essential services, weird eh? Runs at a loss, so what indeed, we can pay more tax then to cover it , or up the price of a pint maybe ?

Yes isnt this country gone to hell. Why cant they increase taxes to get the money to
BUILD THE STADIUM NOW !!!!!!!!!!!! those poeple who drunk all the beer wont notice and extra 50c on the pint, just borrow the money for 2 stadia!!

If the GAA are harassing you, call the cops , I think it's very unfair of them to be stuck in your face for half the year.
Paddy Football, indeed it is cheeky in the extreme for an organisation such as the GAA to want to promote themselves and encourage people to play our national sport, maybe you could start a petition to ban it or maybe they could change the rules to be more like soccer ?

Im a paddy, cant call the cops, they say its all above board!. its the paddy football thats sh1te. Its only for wild men who cant play soccer or hurley (like northern counties). GAA can stick their stinky stadium, its a stupid stinking game.

Cork needs a new 45,000 stadium and dublin needs a 65-80,000.

just take the moeny out now, and build the two!! €400m should do the two. Get foreigners in to do the job. how can it cost more in Germany or Portugal than here?????????????

BUILD IT AND WE'LL USE IT

smemon

if only Aindriu were taoiseach.....

Lennoxschips

Cork needs a 45,000 seater stadium as much as it needs a motorway going to Ballincollig.

Which is not at all.

qwertyup

Just to say when we are talking about the FAI being muppets, lets not forget that the GAA is hardly Henson-free.

Take the player advertising issues, or the fact that it is going to be almost €100 million in debt come years end.

What they have done right though, is securing one hell of a financial package to make a stadium any country would be proud of.

Tellox

From eleven-a-side.com ;

Rooney seeking government action

FAI Chief Executive Officer Fran Rooney has asked the coalition government to clarify its plans regarding a new all-seater stadium to be shared as a home venue by the Irish international soccer and rugby teams.

Since the demise of the Stadium Ireland project, labeled BertieBowl by a cynical media, plans have been far from clear regarding a new stadium.

Stadium Ireland, proposed for Abbotstown in County Dublin, had been earmarked as the future home of the Irish international side, but spiralling costs led to the project’s abandonment.

With Fifa regulations set to prevent the FAI from using temporary seating at future competitive internationals, speculation has been rife that the Irish may be forced to play its home qualifiers outside of the nation’s borders, with Villa Park and Anfield in England and Celtic’s Parkhead suggested as possible temporary homes.

A joint study by the FAI and the IRFU, the Irish rugby ruling body, suggested either a new stadium at Abbotstown or an overhaul of Lansdowne Road at a cost of around Eur400m. But that feasibility report was published in April and there has been little or no progress ever since.

And Rooney has grown impatient with the powers-that-be. “We have become very concerned at the lack of movement on the issue,” he said. “Our message to the government is we need to know what their plans are. It is crucial that they let us know what they are doing so we can plan for the future, but just in terms of the stadium but also in relation to the location of our new headquarters and national coaching centre.

“We have decisions we must take, but we can’t do that until they inform us of their intentions.”

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysingreen/story.asp?newsid=7821

growler

Since when do we have mainland.?

I think he must mean engerland (or possibly aran)

Personally I cannot believe that the FAI or Irish supporters would allow an international to be played in a third country like england, no way. I'm sure UEFA would ahve something to say about it aswell.

Imposter

Originally posted by smemon
the fai are a shambles and are similar to the current government. gaa is a small sport, no international coverage or overseas competitions. croke park is wasted with these small sports.

im not into gaa as it doesnt involve an ounce of skill or creativity. it doesnt take a genius to hoof a ball over 2 posts. soccer has everything and a huge worldwide following. gaa is an illegal version of soccer (u can handle the ball) has bigger goals, and u can foul alot more. anyway, thats why i'll stick to my soccer.

its undoubtably the fai's fault for not building a stadium although the government promised them one so really its the governments too.

bottom line, 11000 people will be bitterly disappointed during the next tournament qualifiers. fai will lose revenue and atmosphere will decrease which could effect results. thanks alot bertie and fai. some country this is.

If it's not one of the main reasons already I think this poster and Aindriu's views should be enough to never let soccer into Croker.
It's also far from a small sport. Hurling and G. Football are 2 of the 3 (or maybe 4) biggest sports in Ireland. Hardly small.

Now to address the organic manure that was spouted above.
Gaa is a small sport! Firstly it's not a sport, it's an organisation. There's more than one sport involved. Secondly these sports do have international variants. Handball is also played internationally.

GAA and no creativity! Lol. Hurling is one of the most skillful games in the world. A lot more skillful than soccer imo. If your discussing gaelic football and that hoofing the ball comment then surely soccer is the exact same from such a simplistic viewpoint.

Soccer doesn't have everything. In Ireland for example they don't even have a decent stadium.

GAA is not an illegal version of soccer anymore than soccer being an illegal version of rugby! The goals in GAA (below the bar) are actually smaller than those used in soccer.

wrt atmosphere at internationals this has been the topic of a thread here where people were saying that there is no real atmosphere there. So how another 11000 (this is obviously just a random number as I can't see any basis in reality for it) people will help when whatever fits in Landsodwne at the moment can't generate atmosphere, I dunno.

p.pete

Imposter, don't worry too much about semons posts - that's about as inteligent as they get unfortunately.

I think there is strong arguments on both sides but ultimately the GAA hold all the decision making power on this one. It's a nice notion that the government might force the situation in soccers favour but the last time the opportunity arose they did the opposite. Soccer is jealous but it's soccer's own fault...

Imposter

Originally posted by p.pete
Imposter, don't worry too much about semons posts - that's about as inteligent as they get unfortunately.

I think there is strong arguments on both sides but ultimately the GAA hold all the decision making power on this one. It's a nice notion that the government might force the situation in soccers favour but the last time the opportunity arose they did the opposite. Soccer is jealous but it's soccer's own fault...

lol.

I can't see the government forcing the GAA's hand on this as the money they gave the GAA was unconditional. Because of this I think the only ones that can change the situation is the GAA themselves and I can't see that happening because of the few diehards who do have the outdated notion about playing 'foreign games' in Croker.

I also think that the FAI would be a problem too as I can see them (or at least some supporters) bitching about whatever conditions the GAA might grant the use of the pitch under.

I also don't think the GAA's debt is much of an issue either as they're currently building the hotel beside croker which should bring in some cash. The popularity and pricing of the games will also bring in a lot of cash in the next few years.

As for soccer being jealous they never wanted to play in the old croker (to the best of my knowledge) and that could also hold significantly more than landsdowne.

p.pete

Soccer is bigger now than ever, capacity wasn't the same issue 20 years ago. Also jealous of it because it's actually a nice stadium.

AFAIK one of the last times the gaa voted to ignore soccer they were financially constrained but the government saw fit to offer them money a day r two before voting. Also they could pressure them by blocking the hotel or attaching strings - but they are not interested in doing this.

Imposter

But didn't Mary 'I love sport' Harney force Bertie into not giving the gaa this money?

As for attaching strings to the hotel I'd find it a bit iron-fisted of the governemnt if they did this. It would also set a very dangerous precedent that would let the government meddle in companies/organisations affairs when they don't agree with them.

p.pete

Residents complaining about matches is one reason not to have soccer there. They also complained about the hotel - the government could play on this if they really wanted to. I'm not suggesting that they do, just looking at possibilities for those who say the government "should make them".

Hope your right about the mary harney thing - that would have occured after the vote of course....

Imposter

Originally posted by p.pete
Residents complaining about matches is one reason not to have soccer there. They also complained about the hotel

Why did they complain about the hotel?

marct

Originally posted by smemon
the fai are a shambles and are similar to the current government. gaa is a small sport, no international coverage or overseas competitions. croke park is wasted with these small sports.

im not into gaa as it doesnt involve an ounce of skill or creativity. it doesnt take a genius to hoof a ball over 2 posts. soccer has everything and a huge worldwide following. gaa is an illegal version of soccer (u can handle the ball) has bigger goals, and u can foul alot more. anyway, thats why i'll stick to my soccer.

its undoubtably the fai's fault for not building a stadium although the government promised them one so really its the governments too.

bottom line, 11000 people will be bitterly disappointed during the next tournament qualifiers. fai will lose revenue and atmosphere will decrease which could effect results. thanks alot bertie and fai. some country this is.

Gaa may be a small sport on the international stage but there were more people attended the hurling championship this year than the last world cup finals!
There is far more skill and creativity in hurling than soccer. Its the fastest land game in the world for Gods sakes.
I am bitter that Croke park is not open for at least the bigger Ireland fixtures what with the tax donation they received. But its dismissive attitudes like yours that will help to keep conservative attitudes in the GAA as they are.

p.pete

The hotel would be yet another reason for people to be coming into the area in large volumes, creating disturbances on the street and the like.

I think they have actually scaled back some of the plans for the hotel and also using some of Croke Parks facilities to prevent an unnecessary doubling up. Apologies, I don't have the exact reasons for objections but there always will be regardless...

jongore

The GAA own Croker, they and only they will decide if and when any other event can take part there.

The GAA has been in existence for over 100 years, during that time they have ensured that their local and national facilities have been built. (And fair play to them)

Soccer has been poular for maybe 20 years in this country, it will take time for both local and national facilities to get up to the GAAs standard.

This soccer Vs. GAA BS gets on my nerves. It is not the GAAs fault or problem that the FAI cannot arange a stadium for the Irish soccer team. If you built a house and someone came along and said that you had to let people live in for a couple of days every second month it's piss you off. The GAA feel the same about croker.

eirebhoy

Isn't it weird how the last talk about the national stadium was 15th April and a few days after this thread has opened Fran Rooney wants to know whats happening about a stadium. I have a feeling that there are people from the FAI reading this thread. Either that or someone form boards e-mailed them.

<edit> date changed<edit>

Imposter

Originally posted by eireboy
Isn't it weird how the last talk about the national stadium was 15th May and a few days after this thread has opened Fran Rooney wants to know whats happening about a stadium. I have a feeling that there are people from the FAI reading this thread. Either that or someone form boards e-mailed them.

If that is the case maybe we should point out to them that they're about as good at managing their affairs as the current government is at managing the country.

Benbaz

Because practically every single civil engineering project in the state goes over budget. I have a friend who is a project manager for one of the big construction firms in the country and the amount of siphoning of material and scavenging that goes onsite is unbelievable. And its not just at the bottom level, its all the way from top to bottom of the construction industry, every single day cement trucks being redirected from sites to nixers and their own houses(Foreman/engineeres), glass, fittings, timber, wiring etc etc. That is why a stadium in Ireland will cost so much to build.

I work as a Quantity Surveyer for a construction company and I can tell you that the main reason for Civil Engineering Projects costing so much in Ireland is not because of the "siphoning of material and scavenging that goes on site" but because of highly inflated labour costs.
In certain projects it is cheaper to get labour in from England to do the the work and that includes the cost of the workforce travelling to Ireland from England everyday!!

A lot of you might find this shocking but Tradesmen in Ireland get paid for travelling to and from work and get travel fares. So imagine getting paid for the 2 hours of travelling that you do to get to and from work everyday aswell as somebody paying for your busfare!! And they even get the Travel Time and Travel Money included in their holiday pay!!!

With regards to the GAA allowing soccer being payed in Croker I personally think it would be a great thing but the GAA are under no obligation to do so. As has been said before the GAA managed their money extremely well and they have to be commended on that.

The main reason for the GAA for not allowing soccer to be played there is because it's an English sport, doesn't anybody remember the Croke Park Massacre?? The Hogan stand was named after one of the players "Michael Hogan" who was shot and killed that day along with Jim Egan and four spectators. And for the diehard staunch republicans that make up some of the senior members of the board in charge of the GAA, memories like these don't just go away. You only have to look at the objections to the Hill being rebuilt to see what I mean.

I know attitudes like these are a bit silly in this day and age considering the effort that is being made in the Northern Peace Process, but these are the attitudes of the "decision makers" so to speak, and until their powers are taken away soccer will not be played in Croke park.


The FAI originally had a plan to build a Stadium a few years ago at a competitive price compared to todays prices, but unfortunately Bertie stepped in and scuppered those plans. And besides, would you trust the FAI with your tax money?? I know I wouldn't!! Anybody remember the ticket fiasco that encurred during USA '94?? :rolleyes:

Thankfully things are chaging in the FAI, and about bloody time too, and hopefully in the near future we will have the professional organisation that Irish Soccer deserves !!


B.

growler

benbaz, although labour is a huge expense, these costs are known in advance by the companies quoting for the jobs , the problem is that in almost every instance these projects go wildly over budget often by double or triple the initial estimates. Labour costs don't increase at that rate.

Construction companies know that half a road / hospital / luas / stadium is feic all use to anyone, so what choice does the customer / govt / FAI have but to cough up the rest or face seeing all their original expenditure dissappear up some builder;s crack ?

Benbaz

Originally posted by growler
these costs are known in advance by the companies quoting for the jobs

Exactly! That's why the original costs are always so much compared to similar projects abroad.

the problem is that in almost every instance these projects go wildly over budget often by double or triple the initial estimates

But that has nothing to do with the builder per se. It has more to do with the Quantity Surveyer that's in charge of the job. It's his responsiblity to make that jobs don't go over budget. And therefore should be held accountable.

When a job goes out to tender for a project all the prices go back to the QS in charge who then should negotiate a Fixed Price Premium with the lowest bidder. A Fixed Price Premium is an amount submitted by the Contractor that takes into account annual cost increases in Labour (usually about 7%) and Materials (about 5%) and insures that the Contractor sticks to his original price throughout the contract.
Now with increases like those every year you can easily see why costs have spiralled excessively over the past few years.
It doesn't excuse it, it just goes some way to explain it.

B.

smemon

well if landsdowne was ours and had a complete revamp and 70000 capacity i'd welcome any sport there. not just out of decency but also the revenue.

irish sport survives on inter county pride and the fact that we invented it. the fact it hasnt taken off abroad proves it's too fast and rough. people dont like it, or can see the values in it.

as for the attendance at the world cup thing, it was staged in japan for god's sake. the irish hurling was staged in ireland, were all its fans are! japan aren't as fanatical as the european countries.

the gaa have a fine stadium and they cant provide a good reason why they wont let soccer be played here.

Johnny_the_fox

I think Ireland is a big enough country to have its own soccer stadium... but not in Croke Park...

you don’t see the Spanish asking for the bull rings to be used or the English asking for cricket pitches to be used...for a football stadium...

so why cant we have a stadium.. like Wales ffs

eirebhoy

Originally posted by smemon
well if landsdowne was ours and had a complete revamp and 70000 capacity i'd welcome any sport there. not just out of decency but also the revenue.

Lansdowne Road could never have a capacity of 70,000 as there is no room. The south stand is on top of Lansdowne Road, the North stand is on top of Havlock Square and the west stand is on top of the railway. There is for extension on the east but that would mean probably knocking down and rebuilding the stadium.

Big Ears

1 of the reasons the gaa had more money to spare than the FAI to build a new stadium is because none of the money the gaa get goes down to clubs at any age level . if u go to an u 10 club semi final u have to pay 3 euro per person to get in nowdays.this is because the gaa dosent give any funding for clubs and redevelupment of pitches and stands come from gate receipts. As for the fai they may be muppets but they let the small amount of money they get put into the youth game. By the way Marc T hurling is the second fastest land sport in the world.some spanish sport is the fastest (check the latest guinness book of records.) Also will gaa and soccer fans stop throwing insults about which game is more skilful.

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by Big Ears
1 of the reasons the gaa had more money to spare than the FAI to build a new stadium is because none of the money the gaa get goes down to clubs at any age level.

GAA had more money spare? Read

Aindriu

Mr Kelly pointed out that they had never given any consideration to continuing the stand around the northern end. Apart from the fact that cost would be prohibitive, they don’t have the space, because a railway line runs directly behind. He said there was a desire to keep it a standing area because of the psychological thing with Hill 16 and to provide cheaper tickets

its going to look crap only having a 3/4 stadium!! hahahahahahaha banana organisation !!
who can take them seriously, GAA what a joke. Im going to laugh soo much watching those fools playing next years final. I hope those thugs Tyrone/Armagh/6 counties arent there in the only horse shoe stadium in the world

Soccer needs all seater stadiums and who wants to play into a empty stand and a 3/4 built stadium?


Surely a hotel on abbotstown and some tax breaks will help to make the stadium viable.

Cork needs a stadium. Something like Man Cities new ground would do the job. The stadia in England are cheaper becuase of the way they are built. Shouldnt they be looking at that kind of method of building it?

Cork

I think - a stadium is probably a waste of money. Let the FAI, IRFU build one thru public private partnership.

smemon

a stadium is not a waste of money, buying stupid luxury learjets at millions of euro is what i'd call a waste of money.
who benefits out of it?? about 10 fat cats in the government. who benefits out of a soccer stadium?? hundreds and thousands of irish fans.

i know its not the gaa's fault we have a poor government and organisation but for the good of the fans they should open it up. eircom park should be built with no questions, the fai should just go ahead with it and ignore the government. until it's built thats when we should play in croker, only temporary 2, 3 years maybe, not permanent.

Imposter

Originally posted by Big Ears
1 of the reasons the gaa had more money to spare than the FAI to build a new stadium is because none of the money the gaa get goes down to clubs at any age level . if u go to an u 10 club semi final u have to pay 3 euro per person to get in nowdays.this is because the gaa dosent give any funding for clubs and redevelupment of pitches and stands come from gate receipts. As for the fai they may be muppets but they let the small amount of money they get put into the youth game. By the way Marc T hurling is the second fastest land sport in the world.some spanish sport is the fastest (check the latest guinness book of records.) Also will gaa and soccer fans stop throwing insults about which game is more skilful.

Rubbish.
The GAA's money gets passed down right through the ranks. Yes clubs need a lot of money every year and they have to find a lot of it themselves.

As for redevelopment of facilities, look at the facilites soccer has Ireland.

I played youth soccer in Ireland and we didn't see much money. I actually had to pay 2 pounds every game where as I didn't have to pay a penny to play GAA.