ATI or NVidia?

quarryman

I'll be buying a new rig shortly and the biggest decision for me is which video card to go for.
For a long time now I've been using an NVidia card *ahem* TNT2 *ahem*. I've never had any problems with it and it really was great value purchase. However I've always heard great things about ATI's range and am now considering trying one.

My decision is budget restricted so my choices break down to two-ish options:

FX 5600 256MB

or

Radeon 9600 PRO 256MB

The Radeon is E30 cheaper but I could throw in a bit extra and get VIVO but less onboard memory. Is this extra memory really necessary?

Which is a better choice within the budget I have?
On a separate topic since I'll also be getting a chip and mobo what requirements would be needed to ensure there's no bandwidth constriction, (chip speed, P4 or AMD, I think it'll be P4).

Thanks for any help\opinions guys.

Cyrus

if it was me id get the 9600 pro, theres not much between it and 5600 and the iq is better on ati cards still

as for the extra memory dont bother, by the time its of any use the card will be too slow anyway

if i was u id try pcik up a 9700 non pro if i could

regarding a cpu get a barton 2500 should run at 3200 speeds (11*200) easy

BloodBath

My first post woo! Been reading boards for a while but havent bothered posting until now. I'm a cs player who stumbled into the technology section so lo.

Personally I wouldn't touch either of them with a barge pole.

The ati does outperform the nvidea but not by much. The older radeon 9500 pro however outperforms both of the above and is around the same price region as far as i know.

The 9600 has a higher clock speed and memory frequency but only has 4 pixel pipelines. Where as the 9500 although having the slower clock and memory speeds is compensated by having 8 pixel pipelines.

I'm not sure if Komplett stocks the 9500 pro any more though. you might have to shop elsewhere for it.

As for your mobo and processor queries it depends on your price range but you shouldnt have any problems with any of the newer boards or processors. Just make sure your mobo is agp8 compatable which every board that has come out for ages has been. Personally i'd go for a Amd chip with an nforce2 mobo. Again depends on your price range but you can pick up a 2600 athlon with a good mobo for around E200 on www.Komplett.ie


BloodBath

quarryman

as for the extra memory dont bother, by the time its of any use the card will be too slow anyway

do you mean the 256MB of video memory won't be any use? and the clock speeds will be too low?
Its really gonna be a coin toss on the 9600 and the 5600. I'm pretty confused with all the PRO and ULTRA options though and I understand more video memory isn't necessarily a good thing?

So its 2 votes for AMD then? I think I will still be going for the P4 though. Problem is with an Athlon it seems to be the mobo of choice is the nForce2 but what is the equivalent with the P4? I have about E150 to spend here. I definately want to pick up an 800MHz FSB board. I'm not to worried about little peripheral extras like firewire etc but more concerned that the performance is as good as I can get it.

Any suggestions?

Dempsey

No Komplett dont stock 9500Pro's anymore, if they knew anything, they'd have them stocked. Anyone know where they are still being sold by any chance, preferrably a sapphire

lotas

the 9800XT and 9600XT will be released soon. info (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTI5) looks pretty good. the 8600XT will be about $200, so i dont know whats thats in real money. cool though. i have a NVida 5200 FX. sweet card. board only supports 4x AGP though, but i have 2 Athlons so that speeds things up. As for CPU, either the XP or the P4. i love the XP, but the P4 has the new EE (http://blog.lotas-smartman.net/archives/000827.php) which would be quite sweet, but expencive. so proabably a XP would be better.

Jam

I wouldn't get either, I wouldn't touch the FXs because from what I've seen they're pants and I can't recommend ATI after a really bad experience I had with a Rage 128.

You could always wait until spring and see what the NV40s are like, or pick up a GF2/3 on the cheap off the for sale board, to tide you over until then.

I'd have to vote for AMD as well.

quarryman

great replies but maybe going down the Euro route a bit too much. i can't afford a 9800 and can't see any 9700s on komplett.
I want the next best thing whether that's a an FX or a 9600. I want to figure out which would be the best 9600 to get, extra memory on the card worth it?
btw, can't see any ti4600/4800s on komplett either.

I wouldn't get either, I wouldn't touch the FXs because from what I've seen they're pants and I can't recommend ATI after a really bad experience I had with a Rage 128.

from what i heard ATI has picked up a bit since then. better driver support etc.

As for CPU, either the XP or the P4. i love the XP, but the P4 has the new EE (http://blog.lotas-smartman.net/archives/000827.php) which would be quite sweet, but expencive. so proabably a XP would be better.

the XP does sound good but i feel a P4 with the 800MHz bus speed is the best at the moment. an argument to this would be great. does any know of a good site where i can get these comparisons? i don't really like anandtech or tom's hardware. anandtech i find is a nightmare to navigate......

thanks, Q

koneko

I can't recommend ATI after a really bad experience I had with a Rage 128.

This has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on new cards. One bad experience shouldn't put anyone off buying the better cards out there.

I'd go ATI. Their drivers have been a lot better for the last few years (since late 8500 drivers) than they used to be. I love my 9800Pro.

kaimera

can't see any ti4600/4800s on komplett either

try "For Sale"...somebody could be selling a GF4ti

btw, I love my P4.:f33r:

DaithiSurfer

Reading this post has got me interested in upgrading too.
I fing graphics cards the hardest to decide between.
Can anyone tell me if there is any performance difference beteween these 2.
There does seem to be about €40 in the difference though.



http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?action=info&sku=119627&p=&t=278&l=2&AvdID=1&CatID=24&GrpID=1&cks=PRL


Sapphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis PRO 128MB
AGP,"Fireblade Edition", Retail


and


http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?action=info&sku=117826&p=&t=278&l=2&AvdID=1&CatID=24&GrpID=1&cks=PRL

Sapphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis PRO 128MB
AGP, "Ultimate Edition", Retail

Jam

This has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on new cards.

Oh, I know it's unreasonable and unfounded at this stage, but... mleh. Words can express how bad an experience it was, fact I paid through the nose for it at Peats didn't help either.

can't see any ti4600/4800s on komplett either

Creative still sell GF4s.

BloodBath

Originally posted by quarryman
do you mean the 256MB of video memory won't be any use? and the clock speeds will be too low?
Its really gonna be a coin toss on the 9600 and the 5600. I'm pretty confused with all the PRO and ULTRA options though and I understand more video memory isn't necessarily a good thing?

So its 2 votes for AMD then? I think I will still be going for the P4 though. Problem is with an Athlon it seems to be the mobo of choice is the nForce2 but what is the equivalent with the P4? I have about E150 to spend here. I definately want to pick up an 800MHz FSB board. I'm not to worried about little peripheral extras like firewire etc but more concerned that the performance is as good as I can get it.

Any suggestions?

Mate I told you. The radeon slightly outperforms the Fx but not by much. I wouldn't touch any of the Fx cards. Have you seen the half life 2 benchmarks yet. Jesus poor nvidea.

Get yourself a radeon 9500 pro m8. It seriously outperforms both these cards by quite a reasonable margain and is roughly the same price.

Having a 800mhz board is not going to boost the performance of your graphics card or your processor. You only need an 800mhz mobo if you were buying a p4 3.2ghz which is the only processor with an 800mhz fsb.

You will get the most out of your money with amd and the same results if not better in the mid range processor market. If you only have 150 to spend on a mobo and c.p.u. you could pick up an athlon xp2200 thoroughbred with a decent nforce2 mobo for around that price.They are all on Komplett.


BloodBath

SouperComputer

just on the point of 800FSB and AGP8x

even on the faster cards, AGP 4x is barely being maxed out. 8x is nice to have, but I wouldnt go mad because you dont have it!

800FSB, Intel pulling the same crap as they did with the slot 1 133FSB. They release it early on the chips where it makes no difference until the clock speed comes and 400 becomes a bottleneck. 600Mhz 133fsb P3 comes to mind! Friken ripoff. Go for a 800 board by all means, but dont go nuts for a 800fsb chip................yet!


AMD\Intel, personally ive yet to see a major advantage of either. P4's seem to be a little better with DIVX encoding, but not enough to justify the extra price. Generally, youll get more bang for your buck with an AMD. Personally, ID go AMD, but you wont go wrong with either.


For gaming, id say backoff on CPU speed, and push your GFX a bit more. An AMD 2500 perhaps with a NF2 mobo, then If you can afford a better card.

Nvidia\Ati, im still running a ti4200 myself, i think my nest purchase will be an ATI. I seems that they are ahead of the game regard image quality.

thats m 2c

quarryman

You only need an 800mhz mobo if you were buying a p4 3.2ghz which is the only processor with an 800mhz fsb.

"mate" are you sure about that?

have a read here

SouperComputer

I think he may have ment that there is no advantage of the 800FSB until you get up to that clock speed...........................just guessin

BloodBath

Ok a more specific link might be helpful not one to the Komplett home page.

I'm sorry I opened my mouth. Just trying to help you out.

Your budet doesn't go that far so I think you would be wasting your time buying an 800mhz mobo.

That is what I meant Soup.


BloodBath

Dempsey

Originally posted by SouperComputer
800FSB, Intel pulling the same crap as they did with the slot 1 133FSB. They release it early on the chips where it makes no difference until the clock speed comes and 400 becomes a bottleneck. 600Mhz 133fsb P3 comes to mind! Friken ripoff. Go for a 800 board by all means, but dont go nuts for a 800fsb chip................yet!

Do you have anything to back that up? Or is it purely your opinion?

You only need an 800mhz mobo if you were buying a p4 3.2ghz which is the only processor with an 800mhz fsb.

There is even a 2.4c available

I think we have gone off the topic aswell.

quarryman

Just trying to help you out.

.... and I appreciate it. The more advice the better.
That wasn't a general link, the specs show its FSB.

Anyway it is off-topic. I feel that the 800MHz board will stand to me in the long run so I'm gonna try go for it.

For gaming, id say backoff on CPU speed, and push your GFX a bit more.

that's a good suggestion. would i get away with the 2.4 so? and then get 9800 maybe?
thanks guys.

Mad Mike

Nvidia has been getting a lot of bad presss recently because its cards have been performing badly in newer DirectX 9 titles.I have seen benchmarks of betas of Half Life 2 where the 9600Pro outperforms the top of the range Nvidia FX5900ultra.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1863

It seems to me that the ATI is a more future proof card.

I am not entirely unbiased here - I should point out I am the happy owner of a Connect3D Radeon 9500.

Harder to make a call on the memory. The extra 128Mb of memory won't make one bit of difference on games that are around today or even on those that are due to be released in the next year or so. On the other hand having lots of memory might just prolong the useful life of your card in the long run.

PS. I am afraid I cannot resist pointing out that my 9500 is one of an early batch that is really a radeon 9700 in disguise. A very minor tweak to the driver unlocks the full 9700 performance - at half the price of a 9700.

PPS. As far as I know the 9500 family (pro or non pro) is not being made any more.

Dempsey

Are Connect3D a good brand? Havent heard anything about them?

CivilServant

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
Can anyone tell me if there is any performance difference beteween these 2.
There does seem to be about €40 in the difference though.

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?action=info&sku=119627&p=&t=278&l=2&AvdID=1&CatID=24&GrpID=1&cks=PRL
Sapphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis PRO 128MB
AGP,"Fireblade Edition", Retail

and

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?action=info&sku=117826&p=&t=278&l=2&AvdID=1&CatID=24&GrpID=1&cks=PRL

Sapphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis PRO 128MB
AGP, "Ultimate Edition", Retail [/B]

Ultimate Edition is cooled using something similar to the Zalman heatpipe for silent cooling. No fan iirc so peace of mind (noisewise) and an effective good looking cooling solution. Guess that's why the call it the Ultimate Edition.

Cant wait till watercooling is standard....

astrofool

later 9500pro's also weren't able to be modded to a 9700, so it's pot luck on which one u get.

Definitely go for the ATI's at the moment, 9600pro is a good card, even better is a 9700pro which can be had quite cheap these days.

It's always nicer to have more memory, if u can afford it. Even when selling on it's better to have the more memory version, there is usually no difference these days speed wise on cards with more memory. In fact the 9800 pro 256's memory is faster than on the 128 model to compensate for the extra latency of using ddr2.

Athlon XP has no future since the launch of athlon 64, so for a new machine, it's a much better idea to get a p4 (if u can afford it), or even an athlon 64 (non fx). p4 2.4c is still faster than a 2.4b which uses a 533 bus. I have an athlon xp 2200+ myself, but would get a p4 if building from scratch, next year i'd probably get the athlon FX (which is the plan atm )

SouperComputer

Originally posted by Dempsey
Do you have anything to back that up? Or is it purely your opinion?


its mostly my opinion based on various articles and discussions ive have with people. Bit like the fact that the P4 does less work per clock cycle than a P3. There's a lawsuit going to that effect in the US.

Again, like the 133FSB 600P3 chip, the bus was released early and really played no advantage until the 800+ range.



so, yea, id say a 2.4 CPU, 800FSB board (more futureproof) and a better GPU will get ya sorted.

quarryman

so, yea, id say a 2.4 CPU, 800FSB board (more futureproof) and a better GPU will get ya sorted.

it's a much better idea to get a p4 (if u can afford it), or even an athlon 64 (non fx). p4 2.4c is still faster than a 2.4b which uses a 533 bus. I have an athlon xp 2200+ myself, but would get a p4 if building from scratch

cool, thanks :cool:

Mad Mike

Originally posted by Dempsey
Are Connect3D a good brand? Havent heard anything about them?

From my limited experience of buying one card I would reccommend them. They are one of the main OEM manufacturers of ATI cards (see the list of partners on ATI's website). My card is identical to the ATI reference design (even uses an ATI PCB). They do compete on price so don't expect much of a software bundle but you can expect a fairly healthy set of cables and interconnectors for dual screen operation etc.

I got mine from http://www.overclockers.co.uk/.