Irish . A dying Breed

Grom

Fukcing just want to bring some thing that I feel very strongly up about . with all respect to the english its ruined us . Our own culture our own language is dying it is very seldom people ever take irish seriously in this country unless their born in an irish speaking region .

**** sake cant ebelieve something we developed is actually becoming extinct.

Pepe LeFrits

shit happens.

IrishMike

Ok hang on here a second u are complaining about us speaking english instead of irish

If we still spoke irish we would be broke and backward

We would have no technology companies here
We would have no software companies
We would be basically still a nation of farmers

One of the main reasons multinationals settle(d) here is that we
are an educated english speaking country

Irish is part of our heritage ill grant u that
But us being an english speaking country is a positive thing

l3rian

And whats the big deal if Irish goes extinct? What are the benefits of keeping the language?

I hated the way it was forced upon me in school, when I could have been studying a language that I could actually use.

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Big Chief

Originally posted by smiaras
Hey I studied french for years, got an an in the leaving but I'm never going to use it. I have more use for Irish than I do most european languages. Between the fact that I can use Irish everyday by watching tg4 or whatever but go to europe and most people speak english there and the fact that our standard of european language skills is very poor. Cept at college standards of course. Don't give me the bull that european languages are useful cause in the business world the language you speak is English. Irish has many benefits and helps us distinguish ourselves from other cultures.

let me see, how could i use french, well... in a country that has 60 million of a population (i wasnt aware it was that big till i searched net - http://www.insee.fr/en/ffc/pop_age2b.htm )

so me learning french gives me the ability to speak to almost 60 million french people, learning irish allows me to watch TG4, AND i could understand the irish writing on dublin bus (which in effect would still be useless anyway as its in english below..) Have you actually been to most european countries? do you REALLY think that EVERYONE speaks english?

How about you take off those blinkers you appear to be wearing, and wake up and smell the coffee

Don't give me the bull that european languages are useful cause in the business world the language you speak is English.

if you really believe that, then i think its a waste of my time arguing with you.

Enjoy watching TG4.

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by smiaras
Irish has many benefits and helps us distinguish ourselves from other cultures.

Give me three and I'll give you a Blue Peter badge.

AL][EN

Originally posted by IrishMike
Ok hang on here a second u are complaining about us speaking english instead of irish

If we still spoke irish we would be broke and backward

We would have no technology companies here
We would have no software companies
We would be basically still a nation of farmers

One of the main reasons multinationals settle(d) here is that we
are an educated english speaking country

Irish is part of our heritage ill grant u that
But us being an english speaking country is a positive thing

i agree with irishmike granted i would like to see more irish speaking area's in ireland (i dont speak much irish myself) but whats being said on this thread is pretty much true we'd be broke and backward if we didnt edcuate ourselves

PHB

I think by now speaking English is part of our heritage. It reminds of us what our country once was and what it is now.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by l3rian
I hated the way it was forced upon me in school, when I could have been studying a language that I could actually use.

And that’s really the point, Grom. The British left us to our own devices over eighty years ago, yet the Irish language has managed to continue its decline without any help from them. Listen to some of the responses here - it’s not exactly beloved by all, is it? We did it all on our own.

I think it’s time you woke up and stopped blaming everything on the English.

hedgetrimmer

The Irish language wont die - it just may not be spoken in Ireland any more. There are about 1 million Irish speakers in the USA, several all Irish schools and colleges throughout Europe, and many Irish speakers in other parts of the world. It's is also protected under various European and International instruments for protecting language diversity.

The fact that it is not spoken in Ireland any more, and the historical reasons you have cited, could be true of any country, and nation, including the UK (Saxon, Cornish, Scots Gaelin, Welsh = all subsumed). English itself is a language borne of a conglomeration of about 7 or 8 languages. And the fact remains that most business nowadays is done through English.

Such is life. But Irish will never "die" as a language. If you feel the need to do something about it, study it, speak it and teach it. You'll find more willing students then you might have thought

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

IrishMike

quote from cnn

Among the world's 6,800 languages, half to 90% could be extinct by the end of the century.

Half of all languages are spoken by fewer than 2,500 people each, according to the Worldwatch Institute, a private organization that monitors global trends.

Languages need at least 100,000 speakers to pass from generation to generation, says UNESCO, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.

The outlook for Udihe, Eyak and Arikapu ¡ª spoken in Siberia, Alaska and the Amazon jungle, respectively ¡ª is particularly bleak.

About 100 people speak Udihe, six speak Arikapu, and Eyak is down to one, Worldwatch says. Marie Smith, 83, of Anchorage, Alaska, says she's the last speaker of Eyak, a claim verified by linguists.

Linguists believe 3,400 to 6,120 languages could become extinct by 2100, a statistic grimmer than the widely used estimate of about one language death every two weeks.

then a quote from the bbc

Attempts are being made all over the Irish Republic to revive the Gaelic language.

Confounding critics who thought it was dying out, Ireland's official language is enjoying something of a comeback.

Full story here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1110628.stm

Finally there is the most important question of all
Who the hell cares ?

hedgetrimmer

It's great for speaking when you're abroad, though. Other people may understand you and eavesdrop if you're speaking in English, but most wont have a clue if you talk as Gaeilge

Sarky

Irish would be an awful lot more common today, and might even be people's first language, if the educational system hadn't been so utterly abominable for the last few decades.

Think about it. How many of you went to a school where people actually taught you how to speak Irish? Unless you were brought up in a Gaeltacht, probably very few or none of you. But how many of us had to endure second rate Irish literature and prose we didn't understand(because nobody taught us how to read or speak Irish) , and told to write critical essays on the stuff (while nobody taught us how to write Irish)? Most likely all of us.

The Irish curriculum in schools is identical to the English one- Nothing about the language itself, just famous literature. Nobody learns anything practical because the high workload of getting through God knows how many rubbish poems and short stories pushes it aside.

I now take this opportunity to again announce my undying, festering hatred for Padraig O Chonaire. A manic depressive drunken nobody who couldn't write a decent story to save his life(and didn't), and seems to be hailed as one of Ireland's greatest modern writers, taking up more of the secondary school Irish course than any other area!

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by Sarky
But how many of us had to endure second rate Irish literature and prose we didn't understand(because nobody taught us how to read or speak Irish) , and told to write critical essays on the stuff (while nobody taught us how to write Irish)? Most likely all of us.

that is the biggest problem with Irish in the educational system. if schools took the same approach as French, German or Spanish then Irish wouldnt be where it is now

drrnwbb

Originally posted by IrishMike
Ok hang on here a second u are complaining about us speaking english instead of irish

If we still spoke irish we would be broke and backward

We would have no technology companies here
We would have no software companies
We would be basically still a nation of farmers

One of the main reasons multinationals settle(d) here is that we
are an educated english speaking country

there is a lot of countries out there where english isnt the first language and they are doing pretty okay when it comes to jobs etc.

it just seems that we import everything, jobs from foreign companies, our language and so on.

dw

catspring

Originally posted by Sarky
Think about it. How many of you went to a school where people actually taught you how to speak Irish? Unless you were brought up in a Gaeltacht, probably very few or none of you.

this is very true. in the primary school i went to over half of the teachers couldn't actually speak irish. they didn't seem to know anything about the language, other than "may i go to the toilet" or how to greet the principal when he came into the room!!!
i really didn't learn any irish from them at all.

Originally posted by Sarky

The Irish curriculum in schools is identical to the English one- Nothing about the language itself, just famous literature. Nobody learns anything practical because the high workload of getting through God knows how many rubbish poems and short stories pushes it aside.

the first point here, about not learning about a language itself (grammer etc) is true of both english and irish in many schools.
i am currently learning french in college and coz i don't know what the subjunctive or a personal pronoun is in english, it makes it a lot more difficult to learn the french version.

i think that the reason we study irish literature, but no grammer, for our leaving cert is prolly because by that stage we should've been learning irish for about 13 years, so we should already know all that stuff....

i do love the irish language though, and fortunately my dad is a native speaker so i can carry out conversations in irish without too much bother.
i must admit that since i left school i've barely spoken a word of irish, i've just never really had a chance.
it would be lovely if we could all speak our native language, but there just doesn't seem to be any need any more, and at the rate we're going, it will be gone for good very soon.

Big Chief

Go speak French to 60 million people guarantee you won't. When irish people go abroad hardly any of us bother to speak the native language. I've spoken more irish than french or grman since I've left school. The only use french has been for me has been to get the gist of TV5.

no, when ppl from uk/ireland go on holiday the majority go to Tourist Resorts. And yes you'll find its mostly english spoken in these places.

and feel free to explain where you walk around speaking irish to people, ive been in ireland for over a year and a half now and not once have i heard one conversation in irish, or even an attempt to.

Sangre

Originally posted by catspring

i am currently learning french in college and coz i don't know what the subjunctive or a personal pronoun is in english, it makes it a lot more difficult to learn the french version.

That's probably a good thing since there is no such thing as the subjunctive in English. I think the personal pronoun is myself etc (correct me if Im wrong)

Anyway Irish is thought terribly in Primary school here and Secondary school. It is assumed you have a certain level, and we dont. And it is taught as a first language, even though it is probably a 3rd.

Also the IRish exam is quite hard because every year a certain amount of people get As, so I believe those living in the Gaeltacht or attending Irish schools are pushing up the bar too far.

Nevyn

I doubt that anyone that went through school in Ireland learned anything more Irish then what they were thought between the ages of 5 and 10 and then spent the next 8 years or so forgetting due to the soulless way it taught in secondary schools, you come out having more Latin then Irish.

It does not take that much effort to regain or rediscover it. How many of us make a point of trying even one converation in Irish at least a week?
It is all about perishable skills if you don’t use them you loose them.

Right now my 5 year old is learning Irish at a rapid rate, cant get enough of it thrilled to be learning (what he think is) the same language all the old Irish heroes spoke. Everyday new words new phrases and I remember stuff I must have never forgotten.


So with all the arguing over it how many of you lot would even look at the Irish board here?

Hamm maybe a refresher course could be done.

Starting with simple phrases.

simu

Fukcing just want to bring some thing that I feel very strongly up about . with all respect to the english its ruined us . Our own culture our own language is dying it is very seldom people ever take irish seriously in this country unless their born in an irish speaking region .

This sort of complaining only leads to pointless arguments consisting of "irish sucks" and ""no, Irish is great".

If you really want to do something for the language, start making an effort to use it yourself. If you're rusty, find classes somewhere. Find the nearest Irish organisations to where you live and get involved. Or else, check out Irish sites online. Share your enthusiasm with friends who are interested. But don't waste your time giving out about past events that cannot be altered!

sceptre

Originally posted by smiaras
Irish has many benefits and helps us distinguish ourselves from other cultures.

I carry a tin whistle in my pocket (er, I don't really but it would help me to distinguish me from other cultures).

Oddly enough I learned Welsh and Latin when I was younger so I'm not going to start poking at the Irish language (and I'm a member of the Irish soc in UL (or Aonad na Gaeilge as those Irish speaking UL kids call it). More taking the easy way of getting Michelle NiGhaboid to stop complaining to be honest, but well, I still signed up).

Irish is dying quickly as an everyday spoken language. I'm not that bothered about it. Your culture is far more than the language you speak. Anyone who makes an effort to speak it, good for you for having an interest. I don't have that interest.

Grom

Tbh my Irish is actually fine , My mother is fluent in both french irish and english so growing up she slightly drilled irish into me I can carry out conversations without much difficulty tbh .

However seems I only ever met a slight few that spoke it bar a mate that I knew who was from an irish speaking area in galway ./


ah well just wanted to stress my opinion that I thought its dying and I dont like that thought tbh

simu

However seems I only ever met a slight few that spoke it bar a mate that I knew who was from an irish speaking area in galway ./

Well unless you have Gaeltacht connections or do Irish in uni, you probably won't find ppl with Irish automatically. It's not like they all have zogabons or green skin or something that makes them immediately obvious! If you want to speak tha language, look out for organisatios or else try to find irish speakers online.

To paraphrase wayne's world, if you look for them, they will come.

richindub2

Good riddance, Irish is and always has been the language of the uncivilised masses from Connacht. For centuries us proper people in the pale have spoken English.

(In all seriousness, if the subject in schools was changed to something more like 'Irish Cultural Studies' and involved learning some Irish history etc and not just having the language drummed into you it mightnt be hated as much).

dudara

I grew up in the Gaeltacht, went to school through Irish and sat all my exams in Irish, and never thought any more of it.

To go back to what the original poster said about his/her child learning Irish and enjoying it. that's how it should be. Irish should be taught as a fun class in national school. Conversational irish only and no messing around with verbs/grammar until later. There's no detriment to learning Irish.

I hate hearing people giving out about the futility and time-wasting of teaching irish. To me it's incredibly important, even if you don't speak it, at least respect it. I'm not one of those daft gaelgoirs who goes around annoying people with irish, to be honest, they annoy me too. (My definition of a Gaelgoir is a non-Gaeltacht born Irish speaking person). People will either love the language or not, and to make them love it, it has to be taught better.

mike65

I blame Peig Sayers.....what was she on?

Mike.

dudara

she was some dull auld wan all right,

TacT

My Irish was never useful to me, my French is, wish I'd never had to learn the stupid language :rolleyes:

I'd be more worried about the white rhino becoming extinct even though I've never seen one in my life

dubaim

And globalisation, with all its benefits, will further sound the death knell for the language. If it still had any relevance, let’s be honest, I would have had to write this in Irish.

Yes, we would not be where we are today if this was still a rural and Irish speaking nation. Most people would have left, a la the 1950s.

About time someone with some level of responsibility in this country (government – ha ha!!) stood up and addressed this issue realistically. The only person who has made any comment is Kevin Myers in his paper column. I am firmly of the opinion that the money wasted on the language could justifiably be spent better elsewhere – schools, hospitals, proper community services etc.

Is everyone else so afraid to upset a minority of the population? Is Irish the new PC, therefore? My guess it will probably not even be on the front of buses in a generation or two.

As a previous writer noted culture is much more than language, and with the advent anyway of telecommunications over the last 50 years, how easy it is now for everyone here to adapt to “other “ cultures. How really different are those other cultures anyway?. E.g UK, USA, for example – because of the common language we all share.

Moving on, it’s not really that much different these days, save for the climate perhaps, living in any English speaking country in the world.

sceptre

Originally posted by mike65
I blame Peig Sayers.....what was she on?

All joking aside, she certainly didn't help. The book was terrible. And I'm not criticising it because it was written by an old uneducated woman, I'm criticising it because it was a terribly written book. Came at the end of most people's encounter with the Irish language though (assuming that most people stopped using it after Leaving Cert) so the rot had already set in at that point.

monument

As kaids said, **** happens!

Cultures don’t dye they change, they develop - god help any culture limited in its makeup to just their language. On another note should we also preserve our culture’s drinking habits as this has been a large part of our culture for some time.

If you’re going to respect the Irish language try and also respect the English version of the word by capitalizing its first letter.

joseph brand

Boooo hoooo, why don't ye cry about it!

The Irish language is used by cranky Gaeltacht culchies with thick hair in brown wellies covered in s**t.

Im about as sympathetic to their cries as I am to a wounded Publican!!!

The Gaeltacht community is made of Welsh and English names with an Irish twang/flavour, ie, desendants of Welsh and Norman mud chewing goat herders, and celts.

"I'm Irish, I'm Irish".

Truth be known, most of us are of Celtic origin, with a hint of Viking thrown in for texture. And where did the Celts check in for departure to Ireland, . . . . eh, . . .Switzerland!

Our relatives of long since past reside in plots of land where the Toblerone grows.

"I'm Irish I'm Irish", . . . ye think???

You're ignorant and full of S**T is what ye are, so pick the spuds from your ears and grow a brain and a mind of your own(think for yourself and stop listening to TDs and Publicans, GGRRRRRRRR)
:eek: :mad:

simu

Regarding Peig Sayers: i thought her book was fascinating, studied it at uni, it's cool to see how different the life of a teengae woman was at that time. Maybe the Irish in it was a bit too advanced for Leaving cert level though.

I also must say that is infinitely more interesting than Silas Mariner(had to do that for English LC)

Truth be known, most of us are of Celtic origin, with a hint of Viking thrown in for texture. And where did the Celts check in for departure to Ireland, . . . . eh, . . .Switzerland!

Uh, yes, and Irish is a Celtic language, it was brought here by the Celts, nobody knows what the language spoken in Ireland before then was like. (Irish has also absorbed the odd Viking influence)

As a previous writer noted culture is much more than language, and with the advent anyway of telecommunications over the last 50 years, how easy it is now for everyone here to adapt to “other “ cultures. How really different are those other cultures anyway?. E.g UK, USA, for example – because of the common language we all share.

I'm not saying countries shoud make an effort to be impenetrable to foreigners but if the current expansion of Anglo-Saxon cultural values continues (not just in this country), imagine how boring the world would be! In fact, English-speaking culture depends on other cultures to keep it vibrant - think, for example of the influence of the Anglo-Irish writers or of Indians like Salman Rushdie on English lit - but if the present trend of homogenisation continues, where will new words, ideas and so on come from? From marketing departments of multinational corporations? /shudders

I am firmly of the opinion that the money wasted on the language could justifiably be spent better elsewhere – schools, hospitals, proper community services etc.

Yes, the government wastes money on many things but, to be honest, the exisistence of the Irish language is good for tourism and trade - think of all the Irish-American business ppl who donate money to causes that preserve aspects of Irish culture and so on. Ireland is already expensive enough as a tourist destination - would anybody bother coming here if it was just an inferior version of England? I'm not saying that the langauge is all there is to Irish culture but it is one aspect of it and you have to make an effort to support all aspects of our culture - music, theatre, festivals, langauge etc etc.

My Irish was never useful to me, my French is, wish I'd never had to learn the stupid language

Boohoo! Think of all the brain cells you must have lost to Irish, the horror, the horror:rolleyes: Maybe you should set up a support group or even better, a lobby group to sue the Dept. of Education for damages:)

I'm not one of those daft gaelgoirs who goes around annoying people with irish, to be honest, they annoy me too. (My definition of a Gaelgoir is a non-Gaeltacht born Irish speaking person).

Er, I'd be a Gaeilgeoir according to your definition(although half of my family is from the Gaeltacht and I spent all my holidays as a child there), they're not all daft you know:)

Caesar_Bojangle

I think orwell had the right idea with Newspeak

Míshásta

Originally posted by IrishMike

If we still spoke irish we would be broke and backward

We would have no technology companies here
We would have no software companies
We would be basically still a nation of farmers

Ó! Go bhfóire Dia orainn. Anois, sa deireadh thiar thall tuigim an fáth go bhfuilim briste agus ar gcúl i ngach rud. Briste, croíbhriste, bancbhriste, beanbhriste. Cúl-aigeanta, Cúlamharcach, cúldhearcach, cúlthóineach im shuí sa chúlshuíocháin ar an mbus agus gan ar mo chumas aon teangbháil líofa a bheith agam le mo chomh-shaoránaigh. Agus ní amháin san ach nílim in ann deileáil on ao’chor leis an nua-shaol. Is deachair dom an teilifíseán a chur ag obair gan chaint ar rudaí mar ríomhairí agus fóin phóca.

Sea, cuirim an milleán go léir ar an gcóras oideachais, agus ar na mBráithre Críostaí go háirithe. Ó! Mo léan géar, na huaire fada dofhulaingthe a thugas ag streachailt leis an dteanga chiotach amhréidh mheánaoiseach úd. Ag iarraidh sleachta fada dothuigthe a chur de ghlanmheabhair le haghaidh na scrúdúanna. Mo sheacht mallacht is trí fiche ar an gaothaire bladhmannach úd, William Shakespeare agus a theanga leath-Gheármánach, leath-Fhranncach, leath-Laidineach, leath-Ghréagach. (Ní raibh féith na matamaitice ró-láidir ionam ach an oiread) Cén baint atá ag Drydon agus Milton leis an saol nua-aoiseach seo againne. Agus ár bhfilí dúchasacha féin, Yeats agus a Fhiddler of Dooney agus na Stoney Fields le Patrick Kavanagh. An féidir le haos óg ár linne empathiseáil leis na íomhánna seo agus sinn sáite i shaol catharach MTV agus raip.

Agus mar fhocal scoir agus an t-aon rud t-ábhachtach fén ábhar seo – níl an Teanga COOL! Hhhmmppphhh! :mad:

Uainn go léir anseo in ~37 "Chetwynde Downs" - Slááán Tamall

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Míshásta
Agus mar fhocal scoir agus an t-aon rud t-ábhachtach fén ábhar seo – níl an Teanga COOL! Hhhmmppphhh! :mad:

Buon discorso :rolleyes:

Cosi, in un dibattito sulla morte della lingua gallica-irlandese, dove uno dei problemi é che esiste é che pochi lo parlano; respondi in una lingua che nessuno (oltre a quelli che sicuramente sarrano d’accordo con te) puotranno respondere o rifutere quello che dici.

Quanto a quello che stó dicendo io ora - o forse latino sarrebbe la lingua piú addatta...

dudara

Jaysus, Peig's been reincarnated

Señor Juárez

seá

simu

Cosi, in un dibattito sulla morte della lingua gallica-irlandese, dove uno dei problemi é che esiste é che pochi lo parlano; respondi in una lingua che nessuno (oltre a quelli che sicuramente sarrano d’accordo con te) puotranno respondere o rifutere quello che dici.

Nach cuma, chuir sé mise ag gáire pé scéal é:)

mike65

Stop this right now!. Take it outside or to
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=31

Bloody foreigners! :ninja:

Mike.

Gael

Originally posted by mike65
Stop this right now!. Take it outside or to
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=31

Bloody foreigners! :ninja:

Mike.

"To Hell or to the Irish Board", eh Mike?

Lukin Black

Finland's population is a bit larger than that of Ireland, their language is as notorious as Irish for having all those different cases and word mutations, yet they hung on to their language DESPITE being ruled by Sweden & Russia for far longer than Ireland was by England. They still use it as their everyday language, and it's not spoken in any other nation, apart from a band at the north of Sweden.

Considering that Nokia, for example, came out of there, they have a real IT industry that isn't dependent on redistributing software, are far more forward thinking than us Irish, and aren't aiming to adopt a foreign culture (e.g. English, American) I can't say you could call them backward.

Postaithe ar dtús ag Míshastá
Ní raibh féith na matamaitice ró-láidir ionam ach an oiread

Tá an ceart agat - dar leatsa is dhá teanga go leith an Béarla!!

Señor Juárez

theres an irish board?!?

why, so there is!

simu

theres an irish board?!? why, so there is!

Why yes, we're not so lo-tech after all:)

MadsL

Considering that Nokia, for example, came out of there, they have a real IT industry that isn't dependent on redistributing software, are far more forward thinking than us Irish, and aren't aiming to adopt a foreign culture (e.g. English, American) I can't say you could call them backward.

Except that Nokia use english for all internal company communication, including verbal.

STaN

Originally posted by Sarky
Think about it. How many of you went to a school where people actually taught you how to speak Irish? Unless you were brought up in a Gaeltacht, probably very few or none of you.

Irish primary school for 8 years along with thousands of others around the country...

Míshásta

Originally posted by dudara
Jaysus, Peig's been reincarnated

Aaaww! And I thinking of myself as Myles na gC. re-incarnated. Actually Peig never left this world, t'was all a ruse to escape all the odium she was subjected to by traumatised school kids. Believe it or not she's residing here in "Chetwynde Downs" at no. 56 "Island View". Éamonn Dunphy is trying to persuade her to appear on his TV show. Not because of her wonderful Irish but because she's threatening to go on hunger strike next Jan. 1st in protest at the smoking ban in pubs. 'Tis difficult to get a word of Gaolainn bhinn na mBlascaedí out of her these days, she's an awful addict of the TV soaps and speaks with a broad Manchurian accent after years of over-exposure to the "Street".

Ó! is fíor nach bhfeicimid a leithéid ann arís, ambaist.

Uainn go léir anseo in #37 "Chetwynde Downs" - - Slááán Tamall :

elexes

imo we all need to standardise . let it be english chinease or spanish . just take one and teach it to the world . that way they wont mis understand that ppl ment .+ makes buying from germany on the net easier

Lukin Black

Originally posted by MadsL
Except that Nokia use english for all internal company communication, including verbal.

From this Nokia page on Internal Communications
There are three primary channels for communicating with employees. Nokia People magazine is published in the four most common languages in Nokia: English, Finnish, Chinese and German.

That's three languages with a huge amount of people that can understand it, and Finnish, with 5 million.