Liverpool A Club in Crisis

Delboy79 · 07-10-2003 12:24pm #1

Dont get me wrong now , i am a diehard Liverpool Fan . Always have been , always will be. Gerard Houllier's defenders now insist that he has got the team playing attractive, attacking football and that he must therefore be given yet more time for the new system to bed down. So what have the last few years been all about. Saint Michael is not a happy camper and seemingly doesnt think Liverpool under Houllier can push for Premiership and European Honours or else he would sign a new contract. Now i admit Houllier has got one or two right in the transfer market , mainly diouf , hyypia , riise , finnan but 90% of them have been laughable. Liverpool had a better squad when Roy Evans was in charge !! All this rubbish about winning five trophies in a season gets to me also, the League Cup against what was then a First Division Birmingham side, the Charity Shield counts for nothing, as for the Super Cup, Gerard, who are you trying to kid here?
I am really fearful for the club , we are slipping out of the elite top four, gradually we will become a team aiming for Fourth spot in the league or even just to qualify for the UEFA Cup. We will turn into a Villa or a Tottenham

Realistically we're in maybe a worse situation then when Gerard took over. We're light years from winning the title and a cup now is little but scant consolation. Okay Kewell was a great buy and Finnan looks good but sorry, Bruno Heskey just has to go. I apologise for my lack of optimism but this is Liverpool FC we're talking about where we used to pride ourselves on winning league titles not Mickey Mouse trophies.

Mr Parry, please wake up...Houliier must go as soon as possible

p.pete · 07-10-2003 12:37pm

The club is in no more of a crisis then any other stage over the last 13 years. GH has done far more then Evans ever did or would have achieved. There was a few good players that have left since Evans but mostly with good reason. Lots of improvement is still needed and quite possibly a change of manager, but if we were to sack GH tomorrow who could we get as an immediate replacement?

kdevitt · 07-10-2003 1:07pm

I don't think Houllier should be sacked - but I do think he should leave gracefully in the summer...

Theres a lot of crap floating about that hes trying to convert us back ito a passing team rather than a long ball team - which wouldn't have been an issue if he hadn't turned us into a rather expensive version of the early 90's arsenal team in the first place.

Looking at us huff an puff against a piss poor Arsenal on Saturday suggested to me that we won't be winning anything of major importance for a long time to come. Of all the injuries we have (excuding Owen), the only one who'll make an impact on his return is Didi, Gerrard can't control the midfield like he does. Hopefully he'll make a difference when he does come back (despite the fact that Houllier wanted rid of him)

marct · 07-10-2003 1:20pm

Delboy, you took that from football365...:rolleyes: http://www.football365.com/You_Say_We_say/MailBox/story_84749.shtml

smiaras · 07-10-2003 1:26pm

This post has been deleted.

marct · 07-10-2003 1:29pm

Lads, no-one is denying Martin is a goodmanager but I have three words for ye- five, three, two. Thats is the system he plays and always has played. Now name any top side that plays that formation...I'll save ye the effort- none!

Delboy79 · 07-10-2003 1:59pm

Marct well spotted with the Football365 thingy . I could not find my post in liverpoolfc.tv.

O'Neill would get things going at Anfield but i dont like 5 3 2 . What about Houllier been thrown up stairs and letting Phil T have a go ! for the rest of the season anyways. He did pretty ok when Houllier was ill .

jonno · 07-10-2003 4:09pm

Roy Evans also played the 5-3-2 system and got nowhere with it. Granted the three centre backs in Mark Wright, Phil Babb and John Scales were not up for the task but I did not like the system. The only system other than standard 4-4-2 or 4-3-1-2 that I would advocate is 3-5-2 with three good centre backs. It could work but a manager like GH (no offence to him) would not adopt that system.

As for Liverpool being a club in crisis, I disagree. I think GH is the best manager we have had since King Kenny. Evans was a joke and Souness never got it right. GH has a great knowledge of the game. I know he got it wrong last season. And the only reason people are calling for his head is because of last season. The year we won the cup treble our football was nice and good to watch. It also resulted in Liverpool's best ever premiership finish. Last year we had no McAllister, lost the in form Babble to illness, had to play Carragher in his position (at a time he was excelling in the left back role), brought in a few foreign players like Diouf who had to adapt and most obviously Heskey wasn't firing on all cylinders so the team depended on Owen to score via the long ball knocked on from Heskey (which was all he was able for last season).

In summation i'm quite happy with GH as manager (although I do get frustrated with some decisions) and I am also happy with Liverpool's footie this season. Now all we have to do is make it count.

A club in crisis???

NO!!

jesus_thats_gre · 07-10-2003 4:27pm

In my opinion, LFC are not a club in crisis, just a club that is not winning anything worth winning. We certainly have ability and create the oppurtunites, but just cant finish for ****...

GH has transformed the side from a defensive team last season to an attacking team this season. You cant judge this new style of play on 5 or 6 games to be honest. You gotta let a few months pass and then assess it. If it doesnt work out this season, i honesly feel he will leave. He will not be sacked though.

As for a club in crisis, off the pitch, Liverpool is one of the best run clubs in the country and their money situation is better than the majority of clubs.

GUI · 07-10-2003 4:31pm

ive been a die hard fan for a long time now
but i must say
GH has to go

ive had enough of his pure bull****..

excuses after excuses but facts are..

he is a disaster in the transfer market,

and if he continues to ruin good players careers by playing
rubbish players like biscan,scimer, heskey etcc..
its not going to help an already brutal situation..

i cant see liverpool finishing in the top 6,
id regard them the same as newcastle, outsiders.
NOTHING MORE

inconsistent and not near the top 4 in terms of quality

jimmzy · 07-10-2003 4:37pm

i hate to say it but im fed up of watching liverpool playing anymore, they simply cant cut the grade, all ive heard from the managers in the past is "next season is our season", get rid of houllier and all is french cronies and bring in some proper players..how long is partridge going to have to play in the reserves before he will be given hes chance..

p.pete · 07-10-2003 4:40pm

Who is ahead of us for fourth GUI, granted we won't win the league this season but I agree more with jonno and jtg.

You can't judge too much on the first 8 games but what I have seen has been very promising - good chances are being created but GH can't put the ball in the net for them.

Also like it was said, matters off the pitch are in great shape.

smemon · 07-10-2003 5:01pm

i find it remarkable that there are so many pool fans that want GH out and yet the board dont take note.

if GH was at any other club in the world, he'd be out the door. usually when a few fans start to get on the managers back he's given a few games and if results dont go right, he's out. with houllier, liverpool board dont seem to care how many games he loses or where they finish.

i dont think anyone has the guts to stand up and boot houllier out, they havnt sacked managers in the past and they wont change that, how much patience can a board have??

and by the way, im not 1 sided, if liverpool had a different manager id admire them if they played well, just like arsenal.

jesus_thats_gre · 07-10-2003 5:08pm

Originally posted by smemon
i find it remarkable that there are so many pool fans that want GH out and yet the board dont take note.

if GH was at any other club in the world, he'd be out the door. usually when a few fans start to get on the managers back he's given a few games and if results dont go right, he's out. with houllier, liverpool board dont seem to care how many games he loses or where they finish.

i dont think anyone has the guts to stand up and boot houllier out, they havnt sacked managers in the past and they wont change that, how much patience can a board have??

and by the way, im not 1 sided, if liverpool had a different manager id admire them if they played well, just like arsenal.

I am gonna bring up the good old reliable here.. How long was Alex Ferguson given to do what he has done?

I forgot to put u on ignore, does anyone know how to do this?

p.pete · 07-10-2003 5:17pm

You should be able to add him to your ignore list through the control panel. I get to read his posts because you usually quote the whole thing:D

As for Arsenal playing well, were you watching on Saturday? Liverpool play defensive and grind out wins and you complain, they attack and lose and you complain - just as well nobody is actually interested in pleasing you...

Delboy79 · 07-10-2003 5:17pm

Fergie was one game from the sack in 1989 but United Won and he survived. Its nothing personal against GH , I would just like to see Liverpool a club full of tradition , part of englands elite pushing for european honours again and i dont think Gerard is the man for this challenge.

smemon · 07-10-2003 5:26pm

and how much has houllier spent to do what he's done??? over 100m pounds later and nothing has changed. at least fergie didnt squander big money in his first 5 years.

as p.pete says, u always quote my whole posts, picking holes in everything, trying to pick out faults with them!

im not complaining about liverpool's peformance saturday, they played well but couldnt take chances. id welcome more performances like that. pool fans want houllier out and that seems to be fine, but when a manu fan wants houllier out, it means war.

Delboy79 · 07-10-2003 6:00pm

Saturday For Instance , we played well. In the first part of the match we had Arsenal on the ropes , should have been at least two up. Smicer came off with a knock , we had no one to replace him . We ended up puttin a kid on the wing , a position he is not familiar with and then we lost our shape and the gunners got back into the game. Owen came off and he had to do with Heskey !! Heskey got a chance in the game but everyone in the crowd expected him to miss and he didnt let them down.
Like come on is that the best we can do after spending 100 million , I know we have our injury worries and all that but it should not go that far.

mike65 · 07-10-2003 6:50pm

God this is a tired argument but I'll contribute anyway!

Last season I was banging on about how Houllier must go (and now!) as I was bored ridged watching them not play very well,
they were'nt even winning the games they should but Houllier has seen the light and wants the side to play attractive attacking football...trouble is the squad is down to its bare-minimum thanks to the imjury list that would have most teams on thier knees (except Chelsea of course). GH can be held accountable for some of the mess with players farmed out on loan but lets face it did anyone here imagine the list ofwalking wounded would be so long?

The injuries will clear up and I'm willing to belive that by new year the squad will be in much better shape and winning well. It wont be enough to challange for the title but I never saw that as likely anyway this year....

Mike.

Villain · 07-10-2003 7:17pm

Only Crisis at Anfield is a Injury one, I think pool fans are expecting too much. I don't think the Pool are going to challenge for the title this season but they have a young team and IF there managed correctly they might just be able to challenge in a year or two.

I certainly don't think it would be good for the Pool to sack GH without having a replacement lined up. Theres not many managers that would be up to the pressure of the job.

I think GH will go at the end of the season and O'Neill will take over but I'm not sure if he's the right man for the job, coming back from the Scottish league and trying to get the Pool pushing for the title would be no easy task.

smemon · 07-10-2003 7:29pm

o'neill go to liverpool? no chance. it would take alot to get him to go to liverpool. club is overhyped and expects too much, celtic is a much more realistic club with far less pressure to win major trophies. he's adored by celtic fans and rightly so, we dont want him going anywere.

talk about houllier being hard to replace, he'll be impossible to replace at celtic.

The Muppet · 07-10-2003 7:39pm

I am gonna bring up the good old reliable here.. How long was Alex Ferguson given to do what he has done?

This is a stock answer fro pool fans when this subject is discussed. The difference is that fergie was improving the setup at UTD and the squad and bring the Fledglings (as they were labled) through to the fist team. There is no evidence from Liverpoool that they are nuturing the Young talent that is going to dominate the prem for the next decade. Utd won the youth Fa Cup and the Milk Cup last Season which is usually a good guide of how the Youths are progressing.

Lately liverpool have been playing some good attacking football which is a positive developement and while I dont see them challenge for the title this year, if Owen regains his form and if they could get anothe decent striker(cisse is in the frame I believe) they may surprise us doubters. We tend to forget that at the begining of last season they looked like they were going to win the title and if they got on another run like that and their confidence returns who knows what could happen.

jesus_thats_gre · 07-10-2003 9:53pm

Originally posted by The Muppet
This is a stock answer fro pool fans when this subject is discussed. The difference is that fergie was improving the setup at UTD and the squad and bring the Fledglings (as they were labled) through to the fist team. There is no evidence from Liverpoool that they are nuturing the Young talent that is going to dominate the prem for the next decade. Utd won the youth Fa Cup and the Milk Cup last Season which is usually a good guide of how the Youths are progressing.

Lately liverpool have been playing some good attacking football which is a positive developement and while I dont see them challenge for the title this year, if Owen regains his form and if they could get anothe decent striker(cisse is in the frame I believe) they may surprise us doubters. We tend to forget that at the begining of last season they looked like they were going to win the title and if they got on another run like that and their confidence returns who knows what could happen.

To be honest, I still think GH should be given sometime with this new "style" of play, especially considering the amount of injuries they have... Liverpool will not win the season this year but will finish in the top 4 or so. While I am not happy with having to accept this, its hard not too when you got the likes of Chelsea, United and Arsenal about you.

p.pete · 07-10-2003 11:29pm

Originally posted by smemon
as p.pete says, u always quote my whole posts, picking holes in everything, trying to pick out faults with them!

I said the "u always quote my whole posts" part, the rest is in your head. I think generally people look at your posts and think your a muppet (guess that name was taken). I try to laugh, thanks for the laughter semon;)

jesus_thats_gre · 08-10-2003 3:11pm

Originally posted by smemon
as p.pete says, u always quote my whole posts, picking holes in everything, trying to pick out faults with them!

For some reason, I dont think he was defending you.

jonno · 08-10-2003 3:24pm

Ah lads don't start this again.

Back on topic. irish1 got it in one there whe he said the only crisis at Liverpool is the injury list.

Anyone see the plans for the new Anfield. Planning permission was applied for today and it looks like a pretty darn impressive 60,000 seater

uberwolf · 08-10-2003 3:25pm

new stadium and all....

The Muppet · 08-10-2003 9:52pm

To be honest, I still think GH should be given sometime with this new "style" of play, especially considering the amount of injuries they have...

Have to agree I like the new attacking approach from Liverpool.
At least the football is more like what I would expect from a Liverpool team having grown up watching them win everything. I still doubt that they have the quality in the current squad to win the prem but thats just my opinion.

jesus_thats_gre · 08-10-2003 9:57pm

Originally posted by The Muppet
Have to agree I like the new attacking approach from Liverpool.
At least the football is more like what I would expect from a Liverpool team having grown up watching them win everything. I still doubt that they have the quality in the current squad to win the prem but thats just my opinion.

I am not sure if they do either. I honestly think their midfield is pretty much bang on, the defense is normally very stable, its just the front line. We need a second goal scorer, simple as that. Heskey needs to be sold, and I have defended him for 2 years now. Once we have the majority of injuries past us, then ya can judge.

[DF]Lenny · 09-10-2003 4:10pm

Liverpool have neither the squad nor the manager to win the premier league this or next season.GH's so-called attacking strategy is severly hampered by Hammans absence I will admit ,but it smacks of desperation and for the 1st time I feel he is pandering to the pressure from press etc.Houllier built his team around a certain style of play(which we all loath) and to expect his players to switch styles after years of dropping them if they showed some semblace of attacking play shows his limited thinking.I for one fear this will be owens last season with the 'pool as his ambition will take him elsewhere.

smemon · 09-10-2003 5:32pm

id find it hard to picture owen playing elsewhere, same as gerrard, their liverpool tru n tru and seem to be pretty loyal.

then again i said the same about becks, couldnt see him anywhere than old trafford. owen leaving liverpool would be a MASSIVE blow. without him they would have no real goalscorer.

sure they've injuries but thats just an excuse. you cant be saying if were injury free we'll beat anyone. you just have to get on with it cope as best u can.

jesus_thats_gre · 09-10-2003 6:19pm

Originally posted by smemon
id find it hard to picture owen playing elsewhere, same as gerrard, their liverpool tru n tru and seem to be pretty loyal.

then again i said the same about becks, couldnt see him anywhere than old trafford. owen leaving liverpool would be a MASSIVE blow. without him they would have no real goalscorer.

sure they've injuries but thats just an excuse. you cant be saying if were injury free we'll beat anyone. you just have to get on with it cope as best u can.

Is that you really posting? You dont seem to be yourself, has someone checked your tempature. I never thought Beckham would leave ye, shame he was basically forced out!

The Muppet · 09-10-2003 6:34pm

Is that you really posting?

See what a Session at The Muppet school of charm can achieve.
smermon is this weeks star pupil.;)

Back on topic some good points lenny particularly on the style of football scenario. A sfor Owen going the topic has been discussed before and he is quoted as having said he wants to win Medals.
However I would be surprised if he left his beloved Liverpool.

eyerer · 09-10-2003 9:46pm

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
the defense is normally very stable

its used to be, but i'd have to disagree now
seems like every game i hear about how hyypia made another idotic mistake, perhaps his best days are behind him

p.pete · 09-10-2003 10:01pm

To be honest I thought manu would be lost without Becks but I was wrong. I thought they would suffer without his deliveries but things have moved on and it isn't as big a factor anymore.

I agree that I can't imagine Owen anywhere else but if he were to go we would adapt, we managed life after fowler without winning the league and I'm sure we could manage to not win it without Owen as well. He's a goal behind rvn so far this season and most of his goals have come from pennos which another player could easily take over. Considering all his misses against Arsenal and his overall contribution so far this season I'm not convinced how much of a loss he would be if we replaced him with an non injury prone striker.

As for us being capable of beating anyone - Greavsie said it best, "it's a funny ole game" and generaly anyone can beat anyone. We can raise our performances and pull off a win against manu and we nearly managed it against arsenal. Yes injuries are only an excuse but over the season when your losing too many matches against the likes off Charlton you have to wonder what would have happened with Henchoz in defence, Hamann in the middle and Baros available up front....

[DF]Lenny · 09-10-2003 11:10pm

"club in crisis" I don't succumb to the theory that injuries have ruined the season, a run of wins can change around even GH's fortunes but the fact remains he cannot see the trees from the woods. As to wether Owen will go I think thats a given, and who can blame the guy? Of course the team will move on.. Baros will shine(prolly Cisse 2).
We live and die by our decisions and im afraid GH will soon be pushed upstairs, the real worry is can LFC make the champions league enough times to pay for this damn new stadium.(Robinson Crusoe)

Liverpool A Club in Crisis

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