Who voted for Fianna Fáil?

tomcosgrave · 09-10-2003 3:15pm #1

I'm amazed that people still vote for Fianna Fáil after all the scandal and messing around over the past couple of decades.

And in the past couple of weeks I've been wondering what people who voted for them in the last election were thinking when they voted for them.

Do they regret doing so now?

If they do regret it, what are the reasons?
And again, if they don't, what are the reasons?

Not trying to be combative, but I'm just curious as to why people voted for them.

If you did vote for them, and are reading this, maybe you could answer? Annonymously, if you wish.

Cheers,
Tom

Lukin Black · 09-10-2003 3:19pm

I voted (for the first time) for Sinn Féin, but only cause the candidate is a local fella, and very active in the community. My second choice (i.e. who ended up getting my vote) was Cecilia Keaveney of Fianna Fáil. I thought she was the best of a bad bunch, and am rather disgusted at how inactive she's been.

They'll not be getting my vote next time, anyhoo.

DaithiSurfer · 09-10-2003 3:25pm

I voted for them.
Partly because i knew the candidate and he assured me that they would be doing certain things that i thought were needed.
And partly because there is noone else to vote for.
FF do a ****e job but i'm desperatley trying to find an alternative.

Won't be voting for them again thats for sure.
But there is only a choice now of muppet club 1 and muppet club 2.

I need a winner to vote for. Don't want to waste my vote on a non party because that helps FF get back.
And as for the PDs, hang em all.

Yavvy · 09-10-2003 3:35pm

I voted for them..they were the best option at the time. and In my area ..still are. My local TD has helped our community quite a lot and seems to be a hardworking man. I dont vote on overall party policy I vote on the local man and issues. Which is why SF got my second vote.

Sparks · 09-10-2003 3:44pm

Originally posted by Alany
I voted for them..they were the best option at the time. and In my area ..still are. My local TD has helped our community quite a lot and seems to be a hardworking man. I dont vote on overall party policy I vote on the local man and issues. Which is why SF got my second vote.

Okay, I'm sorry to appear to be hijacking the thread, but I've heard that story so often now, that I have to ask:

What, specifically, has your local candidate done for the community?

Because I have this sneaking suspicion that a lot of candidates are taking credit for local acts where none is actually due.

Yavvy · 09-10-2003 3:56pm

He helped my local GAA team ( of which I have been a member of since I was 8) get New private football pithces with a concrete dressing room ( hot showers, benches and a toilet no less)

Previously we were playing of awful council pitches that had burned out cars, broken bottles and all sorts of nastyness on them...Also we were being moved form one crappy pitch to another. and changing in our cars at the side of a road .Now we have facalitys to develop our club.

Also he personally helped get speed bumps put on a very dangerous road.

Ther are other things he has done and he is well regarded. Im sure I could think of others if pushed.

gandalf · 09-10-2003 9:30pm

Originally posted by Alany
He helped my local GAA team ( of which I have been a member of since I was 8) get New private football pithces with a concrete dressing room ( hot showers, benches and a toilet no less)

Previously we were playing of awful council pitches that had burned out cars, broken bottles and all sorts of nastyness on them...Also we were being moved form one crappy pitch to another. and changing in our cars at the side of a road .Now we have facalitys to develop our club.

Also he personally helped get speed bumps put on a very dangerous road.

Ther are other things he has done and he is well regarded. Im sure I could think of others if pushed.

Now I thought that TD's were there to sort out national issues and stuff like that was what councilors were for.

That little exert shows exactly what is wrong with irish politics and why we have a pack of useless twats who can only see the small picture in power.

Gandalf.

Sparks · 09-10-2003 9:37pm

Originally posted by Alany
He helped my local GAA team ( of which I have been a member of since I was 8) get New private football pithces with a concrete dressing room ( hot showers, benches and a toilet no less)

Okay. I worked in the National Target Shooting Association for a while, so I know something of this.
There's this thing called the Sports Capital Grant scheme. In other words, you fill out a form, send it in, and they evaluate it. If he "helped" with this, it means that you'd lose the funding if it was found out, because there are rules against canvassing in the application process.

Also he personally helped get speed bumps put on a very dangerous road.

That's a counciller's job, and it can be done by any citizen, or residents association or whatever. In fact, he's not supposed to "help" there either, it's the NRA's job.

Ther are other things he has done and he is well regarded. Im sure I could think of others if pushed.

Consider this a polite push so...

Raskolnikov · 09-10-2003 10:13pm

Originally posted by Sparks

That's a counciller's job, and it can be done by any citizen, or residents association or whatever. In fact, he's not supposed to "help" there either, it's the NRA's job.

Who's to say that he isn't a councillor?

Even if he isn't a councillor, why can't he lobby for action like that to be taken? My local T.D in Cork South Central (FG) recently pushed for a zebra crossing a few hundred metres from where I am. Has he done something underhanded that I've failed to see?

therecklessone · 09-10-2003 10:14pm

I second what Sparks has had to say.

Sparks · 09-10-2003 10:20pm

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Who's to say that he isn't a councillor?

No-one - right now.
Obviously, that's going to change.

Even if he isn't a councillor, why can't he lobby for action
like that to be taken? My local T.D in Cork South Central (FG) recently pushed for a zebra crossing a few hundred metres from where I am. Has he done something underhanded that I've failed to see?

No, if he did so as a normal citizen. If he did so as a TD, he's influencing the state to favour one area over another, which is fundamentally wrong when you're talking about things like zebra crossings and so on - because there's a finite budget, and it should be allocated on the basis of how badly it's needed, not on the basis of how many TDs are lobbying for it and how highly they're ranked.

Otherwise, you'd have a distribution of road deaths that showed where TDs didn't live.

Raskolnikov · 09-10-2003 10:29pm

Originally posted by Sparks

No, if he did so as a normal citizen. If he did so as a TD, he's influencing the state to favour one area over another, which is fundamentally wrong when you're talking about things like zebra crossings and so on - because there's a finite budget, and it should be allocated on the basis of how badly it's needed, not on the basis of how many TDs are lobbying for it and how highly they're ranked.

Ahh, I never thought of it that way. In my area (and I presume many others) however, it does seem common practice for T.D's to lobby on such issues.

Sparks · 09-10-2003 10:33pm

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Ahh, I never thought of it that way. In my area (and I presume many others) however, it does seem common practice for T.D's to lobby on such issues.

Yeah, but it's also common practise for TDs to do things that ought to get them sacked or even thrown in jail!

Yavvy · 10-10-2003 9:45am

Ok I really should never have posted on the Political board considering im about as political as pebble. So excuse me if I dont backup my comments with political knoledge.

When election time comes around I dont care which party I vote for because I have no confidence in any of them "as a party" .
FF, FG, Labour, PD's, SF and so on...I just dont trust them.

SO the only way I feel I can use my vote well is but voting for the people that have served my community. This started with Chris Flood who was a neighbour. A bloody nice bloke and a hard worker and someone who was really concerned about the community.

Im sure you all know how hard Chris Flood served Ireland and Sw Dublin. Such as Promting Volunteering ( a very important cause) . Im also sure you know he is no longer a TD because of health reasons but he still campanigns for FF and he asked for my vote...so I gave it to him. His replacements have not been as good and maybe Sean Crow has been more active in our area but they ( the FF TD's) are still extreamly active in our area.

Thats my reasons, Im sure the political minded person will think me foolish, but thats just how I vote. I will continue to vote that way too.

Imposter · 10-10-2003 9:59am

Gandalf and Sparks,

What is a TD who is representing their constituency allowed/supposed to do for their constituency? Or is it all supposed to be for the general good at a national level?

Surely the role of a TD is to influence matters at a national level for the good of their constituency.

solice · 10-10-2003 10:07am

Originally posted by Alany
Thats my reasons, Im sure the political minded person will think me foolish, but thats just how I vote. I will continue to vote that way too.

you vote for someone in a general election who you feel can best serve the country as a whole. you vote for someone in the local elections who you feel can best serve you community.

parish pump politics is destroying this country. putting people in power who have no understanding on how to run a country is a terrible thing to do. filling Dáil Eireann with td's that are ONLY concerned with the potholes on your road is a crime against the country.

in a general election, vote for the people that can best serve this country, that can work to better the country.

jongore · 10-10-2003 10:14am

I voted FF in the last election, mainly becasue as bad as they are they're the best available.

FG don't have a leader and the Labour party are too nice to the unions. (There was no PD canidate in my area)

Yavvy · 10-10-2003 10:18am

in a general election, vote for the people that can best serve this country, that can work to better the country.

And How may I ask do I do that ? Seriously how does one go about deciding if a person is fit to server the counrty ? espically if they have never been a TD ?

I would like to knwo how people go about their decision making process.

If someone tells me they look at party policy they you can Fock off cause I dont think for one second that any of they major parties have any intention upholding any promise.

As I expected you think me foolish for selecting a "local man" but its the only way I know to choose someone. Also I like to think that FF is such a big party that they would only put forward representitives capable of serving the entire country.

I feel i am one of many people that vote in this way ..other wise an independant or single issue candidate would never ger elected.

10-10-2003 12:01pm

Originally posted by solice

parish pump politics is destroying this country.

That may well have a lot of merit, but that said it is what the people want otherwise they wouldn't vote for the politican in question.
Theres no point in complaining about this imho, it's a waste of energy as long as people are going to remain human and selfish and they will remain that way.

A Brain study of the four out of ten voters who always vote FF regardless would be helpfull, the civil war surely has little relevance to an 18 year old voter today, yet there are many who will vote for paddyFF because Mammy and Daddy Hate the Blue shirts { even though it was their Granny who told them about them...}

mm

solice · 10-10-2003 2:31pm

Originally posted by Alany
And How may I ask do I do that ? Seriously how does one go about deciding if a person is fit to server the counrty ? espically if they have never been a TD ?

...............................................................

As I expected you think me foolish for selecting a "local man" but its the only way I know to choose someone. Also I like to think that FF is such a big party that they would only put forward representitives capable of serving the entire country.

how do you do that. when they come to knock on your door talk to them. question them. argue with them. but most importantly, listen to them. listen to what they have to say, not just on local issues but on important national and international issues. invite them into your house if you want and talk to them on your own ground.
how do you know? you find out the same way you find out everything, you talk to everyone and you listen to everyone and you make an educated guess.

its also quite a scary thought if you think that ff being such a big party would only put capable candidates forward. in my own constituency there are 3 ff tds. not one of them have done anything worthwhile on both national or local issues except for incitment of hatred against assylum seekers

HJ Simpson · 10-10-2003 4:15pm

I voted FF in the past purely cause the opposition only put forward an arguement of "we would do what ff do" they dont have an alternative plan to push.
In the next election though I think I will think long and hard before voting FF again. They just have to many skeletons in the closet!!!
HJS

mycroft · 10-10-2003 4:29pm

As I expected you think me foolish for selecting a "local man" but its the only way I know to choose someone. Also I like to think that FF is such a big party that they would only put forward representitives capable of serving the entire country.

That is the funniest thing I have ever heard, ever.

If you actually believe that I can get you weekend tickets for the Dart real cheap.

Yavvy · 10-10-2003 4:42pm

Originally posted by solice
how do you do that. when they come to knock on your door talk to them. question them. argue with them. but most importantly, listen to them. listen to what they have to say, not just on local issues but on important national and international issues. invite them into your house if you want and talk to them on your own ground.
how do you know? you find out the same way you find out everything, you talk to everyone and you listen to everyone and you make an educated guess.

its also quite a scary thought if you think that ff being such a big party would only put capable candidates forward. in my own constituency there are 3 ff tds. not one of them have done anything worthwhile on both national or local issues except for incitment of hatred against assylum seekers

Yes but as I stated im not political. I don't have an interest in it. So I wouldn't know what questions to ask. As for listening to them Well I already said I don't have one bit of faith in party policy ( which is what they would tell me) ..what's the point in listening to them ?

I can only base my decisions on things I know to be true. I don't trust them and I will not take them at their word.

Yes, Im sure im being very naive thinking FF will select people worthy of leading the country but it makes sense to me. These people are professional politicians yes ? They are part of Irelands largest and most popular party yes ? and they are in one of Dublin's largest voting areas ?
Its better than voting for a bin tax independent isn't it ?

FF get my vote cause I have seen them in action at a local level and Im happy with that, I dont really understand politics at a higher level other than the issues that effect me each day.
(like transport and health)

I understand that my way of thinking must be frustrating to those of you with a genuine interest in Irish government. But my problem is im not interested in politics at all, Im not a political person. So when we have general elections how do I make my decision ? Do I listen to people I don't trust ? Do I study pages and pages of party promises ( most of which will be pipe dreams ) ? or do I vote for people that have effected my life for the better ? ??????????

Yavvy · 10-10-2003 4:45pm

Originally posted by mycroft
That is the funniest thing I have ever heard, ever.

If you actually believe that I can get you weekend tickets for the Dart real cheap.

<moderated>

I realise I'm well outta my dept posting on the politics board, and im open to all sorts of poo flinging but at least back it up with a point ...you never know I might learn something

<moderated>

m1ke · 10-10-2003 5:08pm

TD's primary function should be to work to improve legislation.

A way to change things to lessen the effects of people who just vote for local concerns would be to bring in a list voting system like they have in many other European countries.

You get a list of people under various party headings ranked 1-100 or whatever, you vote for the party itself, not the person. If the party gets 25% of the votes people 1-25 on the list get elected(that's a simple e.g).

Alany - most people vote the way you do, and in the current system we have it's a logical way to vote. The people getting the digs in are self righteous and taking the moral high ground.

Sparks · 10-10-2003 7:30pm

What is a TD who is representing their constituency allowed/supposed to do for their constituency? Or is it all supposed to be for the general good at a national level?

It's supposed to be for the general good at a national level using what's learnt at a local level.

For examples:

At a local level, lots of complaints are heard about the rail system, so the TD pushes for an upgraded rail network. As opposed to pushing for a new coat of paint for the local station.

Some unscrupulous developers use a loophole in planning laws to make a quick buck by turning land into a golf course, failing the business deliberately and then building cheap houses in an area that hasn't got the infrastructure for it. TD pushes for reform of planning laws for the country - that way not only is bray's problem solved, it's prevented from happenning elsewhere.

And so on...

As to "helping the community", that's not his job. He's not a community worker, he's a representative in the national government. Trying to get more cash devoted to his parish is just self-defeating on many levels, and it doesn't get anything done right in the long term.

Cork · 10-10-2003 8:12pm

Who voted for Fianna Fáil?

I did.

FF set up the national pension reserve fund. This is to provide for pensions in years to come. It is an example of strategic planning. Yet some Irish policital partys believed that this should be raided. FF took the long term view and were 100% aganist the raiding of this fund.

This government believe in low personal taxation - to this end they delivered.

I think the Irish were satisfied with their SSIAs.

Michael Martin has made moves to reform the health system. Noel Dempsey has made moves to help particiapation in education.

Whilst the opposition were aganist the partial imposition of third level fees to those earning over€100,000.

10-10-2003 8:30pm

Originally posted by Cork
I did.

FF set up the national pension reserve fund. This is to provide for pensions in years to come. It is an example of strategic planning. Yet some Irish policital partys believed that this should be raided. FF took the long term view and were 100% aganist the raiding of this fund.

Not a good example Cork considering they could have invested that fund in infrastructure from which they could have got a guaranteed return,but they allowed it to be squandered on the stock market instead.
Indeed it would have made more if it was simply used to pay off the national debt even at current low interest rates.

This government believe in low personal taxation - to this end they delivered.

Government being the operative word, I doubt if they'd have rates as low as they are without some PD influence over the years.

mm

Sparks · 10-10-2003 8:39pm

Originally posted by Cork
FF set up the national pension reserve fund. This is to provide for pensions in years to come. It is an example of strategic planning. Yet some Irish policital partys believed that this should be raided. FF took the long term view and were 100% aganist the raiding of this fund.

They also left a quarter of it sitting around uninvested for quite some time. And when you look at what they did invest, you note that their management lead to a 10% loss in the fund as of last June. And I note that you've said nothing about the money lost because of FF's decision to massively overprice the Eircom IPO.

This government believe in low personal taxation - to this end they delivered.

That's giving them credit for an economic boom that was not of their making. Unless you'd like to give them credit for a global economic boom...

I think the Irish were satisfied with their SSIAs

Nope, not the ones that saw the cost of the scheme.

Michael Martin has made moves to reform the health system.

Indeed, but it sure took long enough. How long have doctors pointed out the problem before steps were taken?

Noel Dempsey has made moves to help particiapation in education.

Bollocks he has. He tried to reintroduce direct fees. That's a step back with no guarantee that inclusion was going to benefit from the income generated, which meant that inclusion would simply be damaged by the measure.

Whilst the opposition were aganist the partial imposition of third level fees to those earning over€100,000.

Actually, Dempsey never set the threshold past a vague hand-waving affair that didn't even specify if the total family income was being considered or that of a single parent. And the opposition weren't what stopped the measure, it was the outcry from those who were looking at getting a bill for several grand if it went through.

Cork · 10-10-2003 9:30pm

To be fair, taxation has come down. It makes a change from high taxation & high spend governments. People don't want to payer higher tax.

The pensions fund was a very good idea of forward thinking. Money is being spend to improve the grid lock of around our capital city. As a country - we are doing well.

Much money is being spent on infrastucture. But as a country - we also need Value for our tax money.

Sparks · 10-10-2003 9:44pm

Originally posted by Cork
To be fair, taxation has come down. It makes a change from high taxation & high spend governments. People don't want to payer higher tax.

To be fair cork, you'd have to point out that the reduction in taxation was made possible by external events that had nothing to do with the FF government that happened to be lucky enough to be there at the time. And to be fair, you'd have to point out that the high taxation of the 1980s era can be attributed in large part to the actions of the FF government at the time and their economic policies. Mind you, given that they have a record of not checking the qualifications of their minister of finance, it's not surprising...

The pensions fund was a very good idea of forward thinking.

It was a good idea - but it was a long way from being either original or well implemented.

Money is being spend to improve the grid lock of around our capital city. As a country - we are doing well.

Seriously cork, what are you smoking and can I get some of it too please?

Much money is being spent on infrastucture. But as a country - we also need Value for our tax money.

What a load of cobblers. The money for infrastructure came straight from the EU - and in 2007, the bill is going to arrive. And our current economy (which has seen enormous amounts of money wasted) won't be able to sustain it.

Who voted for Fianna Fáil?

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