NTL's sneak tactics have spread to Ireland

carrotcake · 11-10-2003 12:50pm #1

In the last few days, NTL have introduced a 1GB per day cap on their cable internet service, without any notification to their current customers. This is the exact same as what NTL UK pulled a few months ago

http://www.ntl.com/locales/ie/en/athome/internet_cable.html

Information of NTL UK's fine handling of their situation can be found at http://www.nthellworld.co.uk and http://anticap.co.uk

Nuphor · 11-10-2003 6:42pm

While I don't condone changing the T&C's without notifying the consumer, 1gig a day is a bloody huge amount.

Asok · 13-10-2003 10:08am

1gb isnt really huge it all depends on the number of people you have hooked onto that line in the house i.e if the line was going into a students house with say 5 people in it that leaves them 200mb per day which isnt exactly huge.

LFCFan · 13-10-2003 11:27am

What it you need to download some huge files one day that equal 3 Gigs and then nothing for the rest of the month?

Nuphor · 13-10-2003 12:56pm

Originally posted by LFCFan
What it you need to download some huge files one day that equal 3 Gigs and then nothing for the rest of the month?

Start downloading at 10 o' clock

That'll get you two gigs.

SkepticOne · 13-10-2003 1:51pm

"1gb isnt really huge it all depends on the number of people you have hooked onto that line in the house i.e if the line was going into a students house with say 5 people in it that leaves them 200mb per day which isnt exactly huge."

I doubt if there's any money for NTL in trying to cater to the needs of students paying 8 euros a month each.

Nuphor · 13-10-2003 2:02pm

Originally posted by SkepticOne
"1gb isnt really huge it all depends on the number of people you have hooked onto that line in the house i.e if the line was going into a students house with say 5 people in it that leaves them 200mb per day which isnt exactly huge."

I doubt if there's any money for NTL in trying to cater to the needs of students paying 8 euros a month each.

This is also true. I'm sorry, but, I just think that 1 gig a day is ample for even heavy users. Hell, *I'm* a heavy user with Silvermead. Their cap is 5.5 gigs a month with their 512k service. I rarely go above 3.

NTL's limit is 30gigs, which wipes the floor with anyone elses limits.

raeGten · 13-10-2003 2:39pm

Which is it...one Gb a day or 30 Gb a month? I could easily go over one Gb a day but I probably wouldn't even go over 10 Gb a month on the busiest month. What's the penalty if you do go over?

SkepticOne · 13-10-2003 2:48pm

"# Amazingly fast downloads - download a 3MB MP3 file in 50 seconds, compared to over 7 minutes with a dial-up connection (for always-on 600kbps service). And there are no restrictions on how much you download!"

They should probably modify this bit.

crawler · 13-10-2003 4:00pm

Fair point SkepticOne - it will be altered.

carrotcake · 13-10-2003 5:45pm

Originally posted by raeGten
What's the penalty if you do go over?

nobody knows!

Lenny · 13-10-2003 5:58pm

I'm purposely gona go download linux 3 iso's now

myhandle · 13-10-2003 7:28pm

On the subject of download limits...

When an ISP says you have, say, 10GB per month on ADSL
can you use that 10GB whenever you want, eg 24/7 max downloading until used up.

Or are there further daily limits within the quota.

crawler · 14-10-2003 12:29pm

Folks,

The web site has now been altered. Thanks for pointing this out.

Myhandle - generally it's up to the ISP in question how they calculate their usage...Esat BT for example calculate the usage on a daily basis see FAQs here http://www.iol.ie/broadband/faq.htm

The main reason for limits at all is to reduce people running constant P2P stuff and taking up backhaul for other users...the key is to have a decent limit that suits the vast majority of users. I personally think 1GB per day ( NTL's offering) is a good limit ( could be opening myself up for a hanging here!). I know the eircom starter pack has a limit of 4GB per MONTH and EsatBT offer 8GB per MONTH on their entry package.

NOT pimping here, I hope (mods?) - it's factual!

Hope this helps.....

SkepticOne · 14-10-2003 12:38pm

Well done. Have the users of the service been informed by email that their service has been altered? Not all of them will regularly check the web page.

crawler · 14-10-2003 1:08pm

Skeptic - we are taking a slightly different approach.

The 1GB is a guide for people , we will contact people who exceed the limit on a regualr basis directly.

We dont want the 1GB to be a big issue for people , we simply want to make sure that the service remains excellent for all people, given that we run a low contention ratio of 24:1 ( 48:1 RADSL) and that we offer 600k ( 512k at best with RADSL)

As I am sure you know, only a TINY number of users ever come anywhere near using 30GB a month.

We are not trying to hide or hoodwink people in any way at all, we simply want everyone to be able to get the service that they pay for.....like all contended networks (DSL, Wireless , Cable) , it is a shared access method.

Not sure if this answers your question as such...?

crawler · 14-10-2003 2:22pm

Dont even know my own contention Ratios!!

NTL contention is actually 20:1 , not 24:1

Anyone who cares to beat me with a big stick, feel free to do so!

carrotcake · 14-10-2003 5:43pm

Originally posted by crawler
We are not trying to hide or hoodwink people in any way at all

hence the prior warning to all your broadband customers, yes? :rolleyes:

...we simply want everyone to be able to get the service that they pay for.....like all contended networks (DSL, Wireless , Cable) , it is a shared access method.

the service they pay for? they pay for an unlimited service!! something which your marketing dept was very eager to point out. if ntl really wanted people to get the service they've paid for then they'd install another ubr. there is only one for the republic, afterall, compared to nine for the north

Lenny · 14-10-2003 11:58pm

Hi crawler, I take it you're working on behalf of NTL,
anyways.
Last nite I downloaded about nearly a gig, and today I downloaded 1.3 gigs,
I soon started to notice that pages wern't loading for me
Kept on getting a "page not found dns error"
I did the usual, restarted. unplugged modem replugged many times,
But the modem had the "rdy" light on all the time, and was sending and recieving very small ammount of data, "accepted 7megs over a few hours of nothing working"

So I am taking it that I was cut off for going over the limit yes?
Its just 12 now and I've tried to connect to the net and have done so sucessfully...

crawler · 15-10-2003 12:02am

CarrotCake - there is no hidden agenda here and I think I have been very open. This will have minimal, if any, impact on the vast majority of users and anyone who may be affected will be contacted.

As you correctly pointed out the download limit thing has been beaten to death at this stage both on Boards and on Nthell etc in the UK and there are 2 trains of thought on the subject - both believe they are right.

I dont know how another UBR would help with backhaul capacity - it would increase port density but as a HFC network is built using standard tree/branch topology there is limited bandwidth per segment?

From my own point of view - I cant even get dial up ISDN where I live - that's why I subscribe to Boards, as people will tell you , I dont pimp.

crawler · 15-10-2003 12:05am

Hi Lenny,

Nope , nothing to do with limits etc....some upgrade work going on somewhere me thinks

And , no , not official spokesperson for NTL at all but willing to help out where I can.

My agenda is that I have dial up at home and can have nothing else. I couldnt connect with dial up earlier either - I'll find out tomorrow what happened.

carrotcake · 15-10-2003 12:13am

Originally posted by Lenny
Hi crawler, I take it you're working on behalf of NTL,
anyways.
Last nite I downloaded about nearly a gig, and today I downloaded 1.3 gigs,
I soon started to notice that pages wern't loading for me
Kept on getting a "page not found dns error"
I did the usual, restarted. unplugged modem replugged many times,
But the modem had the "rdy" light on all the time, and was sending and recieving very small ammount of data, "accepted 7megs over a few hours of nothing working"

So I am taking it that I was cut off for going over the limit yes?
Its just 12 now and I've tried to connect to the net and have done so sucessfully...

nah, you're alright. it was a dns error that affected all uk and ireland customers! good ol' ntl!

http://www.ntl-isp.ntl.com/lookup/nthw_detail.asp?s=1464

carrotcake · 15-10-2003 12:16am

Originally posted by crawler
CarrotCake - there is no hidden agenda here and I think I have been very open.

<snip>

i agree, you have. if only your colleagues could do the same

Lenny · 15-10-2003 6:25pm

Ahhh, thanks for that carrotcake.

chill · 18-10-2003 5:11pm

Well done NTL !!!

I have complained numerous times to Netsource to get heavy users knobbled and know for a fact that many others have too. At last they have taken action too.

An old work colleague of mine has NTL broadband and I know he had a major fight on the phone a couple of weeks ago with NTL. He was complaining about exactly the same thing and it seems NTL in the UK have told NTL Ireland to stick the boot in to these band guzzlers. Their time is coming and the rest of us can get on with reasonable access to the net.

Celt · 18-10-2003 5:18pm

Crawler, I have never gone over 20gb per month in 20 months of always on 600k, but I go over 1gb per day quite often.

Will I get warned if I go over 1gb for a week, but then dont go over 200mb the rest of the month?

crawler · 18-10-2003 10:24pm

Celt - chances are nothing at all will happen to you.

It's exactly as Chill states - it's to prevent the a large chunk of the backhaul bandwith being used up by a small number of users thus potentially lowering the level of service for other users.

The object of the exercise of not to punish people it's simply to keep the service at a high level for ALL users.

We have almost 1,000,000 broadband domestic users ( Ireland and UK) , we understand that people have different usage patterns etc and we understand that people will do different things at different times - I wouldnt be concerned if I was you! lots of users fit the very same profile as you do and this does not cause us any problem.

Hope this helps....

crawler · 18-10-2003 10:36pm

By the way...the "limit" is 1GB per day...not per week.

And the word "limit" is a bit rigid - I would call it more of a "guide"

Seriously guys - it's being done to protect the vast majority of our customers there no is hidden agenda - there is limited backhaul on any shared network such as Cable or DSL etc

carrotcake · 19-10-2003 10:33am

Originally posted by chill
An old work colleague of mine has NTL broadband and I know he had a major fight on the phone a couple of weeks ago with NTL.

that's funny, i get maximum speeds all the time. does he live in lucan or crumlin by any chance?

Celt · 20-10-2003 12:16am

I'm aware it's 1gb per day, I meant 1gb per day for aweek(ie 7gb) and then 200mb per day for the next 3 weeks so a total of 12gb for the month.

On another note, do you have any idea if it would be possible to get 1mb down/512k up with digital tv package?

I doubt NTL do non custom cable packages, but I thought I'd ask.

captainpat · 20-10-2003 2:10am

As a newbie to ntl Cable, I welcome the freedom of the 1 GB daily allowance. However, I sometimes schedule downloads to go when capacity is available, and cannot predict how much I will get before I come back to check. I will be happy to aim at 1 GB/day or less, but the Internet is not a fixed service.

Is it 1 GB/day, and above that you are a monkey, or is it an average of that, with 30 GB/month being the limit?

How can I check my usage officially, so that I do not offend the Esat/Netsource types who take instant action without warning?

I like my new ntl connection, and would like to keep it sweet. I will, however, try to use it to an acceptable limit. I just want oo know what that is. The new T&Cs are not clear on this.

NTL's sneak tactics have spread to Ireland

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