Ireland V Swtizerland (includes score)

Johnny_the_fox

<rant>
A wish people would get over the "if Keane was playin/We needed Keane etc...". He's gone. Amen. Im sure if we had Brady, McGrath, Whelan etc we could have won the group. :rolleyes:

Today(/Yesterday), Its the players that failed to deliver....nothing to do with Keane/McCarthy/Kerr. All the manager can do is pick the team, its down to the players to bring success on the field, which Ireland failed to do... <again>
</rant>

Big Chief

sad to hear you lost lads, i had really wished for the scottish, irish and welsh to make it to portugal, if only just for the banter as i had planned to maybe head over for a couple of weeks if i had cash..

Hairy Homer

I had better things to do so I didn't watch it. Apart from the last 20 minutes when the Swiss were two up and it was effectively all over

But here's something to bear in mind.

This is our WORST qualifying performance in 18 years. You have to go back to the reign of Eoin Hand for the last time we finished out of the top two in a qualifying campaign. That was in the 1986 World Cup, when again we were facing The Soviet Union and Switzerland.

And then we beat both of those teams at home. Mind you we got hockeyed by Denmark twice and couldn't beat Norway, which saw us end up nowhere and got Eoin Hand the boot.

Bright Side: The following campaign was our best ever. The only time we ever actually WON a qualifying group.

Dark Side: We did that with players that included Bonner, McGrath, Lawrenson, Brady, Whelan, Stapleton, Sheedy, Houghton, Aldridge and a few others.

This current side just don't have that class in sufficient quantities. Duff's world class. Given, Keane and Carr are worthy internationals. The rest.......maybe some day I'll see why everyone gets so excited about O'Shea.

I would have thought that Kerr's main benefit would be to bring in some of these youth players that he has done so well with over the years. O'Shea excepted, there's not much evidence of that so far.

Oh well. At least the rugby team is half way decent at the moment.

Hellrazer

Cant wait to see the headlines in the papers.

Irish swiss rolled

Irish in cuckoo land.

Absolute ****e.The teams in the Phoenix park on a Sunday morning could have played better.

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by Hairy Homer

Dark Side: We did that with players that included Bonner, McGrath, Lawrenson, Brady, Whelan, Stapleton, Sheedy, Houghton, Aldridge and a few others.

Bright Side : Every player you mention there (bar Alridge/Houghton) was in the squad that performed so badly in those Mexico 86 qualifiers . So surely that should be enough evidence that wholesale changes are not neccesarily the only solution.

smuckers

The first 30 mins we were shocking Duff hardly got a touch and Keane was dropping v deep then he did get going chances weren't converted the the 2 headers which went over the bar.
The Swiss were techincally better than us and average players didn't play well Holland and Kinsella don't have enough creativity in CM, O' Shea looked v uncomfortable 2-0 was a flattering scoreline from our point of view and I can't believe a few in Arnotts couldn't admit that we played badly.

smemon

i cannot believe kerr, he's come out and said basically, (it wasnt my fault, it was mc carthys).

i quote from bbc text,"but we had too much to do after losing the first two games and conceding too many goals."

kerr, U had the chance and u blew it, its nobody elses fault, only yours an the teams. i cant believe we havnt beat the swiss or russia in 4 games. 1 out of 12 points against them.

holland and kinsella should retire, useless. so should gary breen. robbie keane and duff were the only people calling for the ball when we were losing. the rest are wimps and bluffers.

as soon as we went 2-0 down we shouldve taken on doherty and went 3 at the back. :mad:

Dr Bolouswki

I want to blame Mick McCarthy. It was a huge hill to climb after losing the first two games. However, getting 1 point from our other fixtures against the russians and swiss doesn't say a whole lot for Kerr I suppose... his tactics astound me. Whatever you think of Duff he is a left winger and a great left winger but that's where he should stay. And the way Kerr stuck with docherty (what a lump) for most of the campaign was sad too... Soon as he switched Duff to the left last night he got crosses in that caused problems in the swiss defence...

And as for the swiss? Rats the lot of them - half empty stadium for most of their qualifiers? where were they when they were sihte? They can stick their clocks and their knives and their toblerones up their collective jacksies!!!

Bet they don't get point 1 at the finals and their fans will be anonymous - bunch of nazi collaborating, money laundering snakes...

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by Killah_B

And as for the swiss? Rats the lot of them - half empty stadium for most of their qualifiers? where were they when they were sihte?

That's funny, it really is! I wonder were you one of the 12,000 or so people who turned up at Lansdowne to see us lose 4-1 to Denmark in 1985? Or perhaps you were in the half empty stadium when Ireland beat Bulgaria 2-0 in 1987?

I'm not speaking about EVERYONE who follows the fortune of Ireland here but as a whole Ireland 'fans' are the biggest bunch of bandwagon jumpers in world football. So to be accusing another country of doing it is laughable.

ella minnow pea

he's a useless captain, never spoke a word all night, didnt even give sheasy the bolliking he deserved after he let in the first goal. we've no leaders, and after kenny retires in two years, i can't see anyone becoming a worthy one. we forget too quickly how crap we are - one mediocre world cup and no one remembers that we've only ever qualified for ONE euro championship, FIFTEEN years ago. That's a whole generation of Ireland players that have never player in a euro championship. even the swiss have a better record than that.
was waiting for a gary neville bicycle kick goal in turkey to round off a perfect evening...


come the day and come the hour, come the power and the glory

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by Oswald Osbourne
I wonder were you one of the 12,000 or so people who turned up at Lansdowne to see us lose 4-1 to Denmark in 1985? .... as a whole Ireland 'fans' are the biggest bunch of bandwagon jumpers in world football.

Excellent point!

Maybe some of us who couldn't afford the crazy idea of the FAI's to get supporters to "block-book" home match tickets in advance after Euro '88, might now get a fairer bite at the cherry. At least until we've got a quality side again...

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger
Excellent point!

Maybe some of us who couldn't afford the crazy idea of the FAI's to get supporters to "block-book" home match tickets in advance after Euro '88, might now get a fairer bite at the cherry.

Lets hope so cos block booking was the worst - esp after the all-seating rule came into effect for WC94 qualifiers! I remember during our Wc94 campaign I was too young to ever have enough cash on hand to buy a block of tickets so I would loose out.

My dad knew a guy who who buy block and would always like clockwork turn up for glamour matches against the likes of Denmark or Spain but then funnily enough when it came time to play the likes of Latvia or Lithuania was always 'unavailable'. So I ended up buying his ticket for those minor games.

Some supporter he was! These are the kind of 'fans' who won't be missed from Lansdowne.

Dustaz

i cant believe people are calling connelly crap and hailing keane for 'working his socks off'.

Neither striker got great service yesterday but one striker was anonymous yesterday and the other worked hard to get into position to recieve the ball. Fill in the blanks for yourselves.

Likewise, Kilbane again played better than some others around him and he still gets a hard time. Hes never going to be Pires or Duff but he meant that harte was never terribly badly exposed.

Given made the type of mistake that keepers often make and got punished. Not a shootable offence but the defence has to hold its hand up.

Crap display though. Awful defense, o shea should never have played in the middle. Central Midfield was completly anonymous as usual. Duff probably should have played on the left (with someone else at left full) although i cant think of a single player who is an instant choice at right wing.

We were talking about managers after the game and came to the conclusion that McCarthy would not have done any worse than Kerr did and likewise Kerr would not have done any better in charge of the first two matches. Kerr makes exactly the same 'cardinal sins' that caused people to shout for McCarthys head (Players out of position, bad substitutions, perservering with certain players). If this was any other manger they would have been shown the door after this match. To be fair though, every manager needs a little time and he hasnt exactly got the brasilian pool of players to choose from.

mike65

Originally posted by Hellrazer
Cant wait to see the headlines in the papers.

Irish swiss rolled

Irish in cuckoo land.

Nah much better than that - Basel Faulty!

Mike.

The Muppet

Kerr makes exactly the same 'cardinal sins' that caused people to shout for McCarthy's head (Players out of position, bad substitutions, persevering with certain players).

It is Mc Carthys and FAIs fault that we are out of the comp. not because of the first 2 results but because they made the one player who would have inspired the team to succeed retire early from International soccer. Where are all the Muppet's who were saying that Ireland didn,t need Keano now. Let them compare the group we have failed to get out of with the one we qualified
for the world cup from.

Harte ,Kilbane, Connelly are not international standard and the rest aren,t good enough to compensate for their frailties.

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by The Muppet
It is Mc Carthys and FAIs fault that we are out of the comp. Where are all the Muppet's who were saying that Ireland didn,t need Keano now. Let them compare the group we have failed to get out of with the one we qualified
for the world cup from.

Funny, as I seem to remember Keane being our captain and the fulcrum of our team when we didn't qualify for WC98 and Euro2000 either. Whose fault was it there?

Dustaz

Originally posted by The Muppet
It is Mc Carthys and FAIs fault that we are out of the comp. not because of the first 2 results but because they made the one player who would have inspired the team to succeed retire early from International soccer.

Keane retired after mccarthy left. Keane retired because 6 extra games a year would make his injuries worse and would curtail his lucrative club career.

Pepe LeFrits

Wrote a big long post on this earlier but my PC chewed it and i can't be arsed writing it all again. In short:

- Irish fans expectations far exceed the teams ability.
- Harte, Kilbane, Connolly and co are unfairly treated, those 3 were better on saturday than golden boys O'Shea, Keane and Carr, and yet they still get blamed.
- Well done to Switzerland who deserved to qualify. Streller, Frei and Steil missed their true callings as actors though.

PHB

Do you see anyone here not saying that O Shea or Carr were ****

Irish fans expectations far exceed the teams ability.

Im sorry I dont think my expectations of gettting into the Euro Qualifiers we're far beyond the Irish teams ability.

Connely was not as good as Keane. Keane had to drop back to try and get the ball, and the one decent chance Ireland got Connely screwed it up.

Kilbane is an average player that tries his hardest and for that reason I like him, but that is absolutely no reason for him to be playing in Duffs position, if you really want to why not play Kilbane on the right.

The Muppet

Keane retired because 6 extra games a year would make his injuries worse and would curtail his lucrative club career.

Its true the injuries played a pivitol role in his early retirment but Keane said himself that he would find it difficult to play with some of the "muppets " still on the team and that was also a consideration when he retired . I assume he was talking about the ones tha released the statement saying he wasn,t welcome back.

The evidence is there for all to see that we need a player like Keane in midfield.

donhughberto

Its done and dusted and all the crying won't help, thank god for the Rugby World Cup

Tellox

According to the sun, kerr said that "the bad start to the campaign is fully to blame for us missing out on euro2004"

At the start of the campaign, we took 0 from 6pts, and lost 2-1 to switzerland.

At the end of the campaign, and under brian kerr, we took 1 from 6pts, and lost 2-0 to switzerland.

Our poor start isnt to blame, our poor form in general is.
Lets just pray that we dont get any holland or portugal's in the world cup qualifying campaign.

and why is Harte getting so much stick? I think he did fairly well, compared to most of the team at least.



oh,and well done scotland

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by Tellox
According to the sun, kerr said that "the bad start to the campaign is fully to blame for us missing out on euro2004"

You can see the bbc link here ...

Originally posted by Tellox
At the start of the campaign, we took 0 from 6pts, and lost 2-1 to switzerland.

At the end of the campaign, and under brian kerr, we took 1 from 6pts, and lost 2-0 to switzerland.
[/B]

add the draw with Albania (Away)... (and Doherty being our top scorer)...

Overall I think the campaign was disappointing...

StickyMcGinty

my summer is ruined

thanks to the toblerone b*stards

GuanYin

Jesus lads, thee has been an awful amount of crap posted on this thread.

When Kerr took over most people said he had a very slim chance of qualifying. We had already lost 6 out of 12 points to our nearest rivals and 3 of them were at home. Our failure to qualify stems from two games in my opinion. Swiss at home and Russia at home. If you want to be pedantic, you can include the dire and I mean an abomination unto Nuggan like now other, tactics employed in Moscow. But generally had we picked up 3 points at home to either the Swiss or Russians we would be in the playoffs at least now.

The match on saturday was woeful and I blame the players more than anyone. There was no midfield, Holland and Healyy do not cut it. I have said before that I think Healy is overrated. On saturday he failed to close anyone down, over ran balls he should have passed, lost possession unforced and ball watched. Holland was no better, he has been playing well for Charlton but he seemed overwhelmed by the swiss midfield.

Duff was dire. Sorry but he contributed to alot of Ireland problems. When he was cutting inside Carr was being exposed and Duff showed no interest in tracking back or picking up his man. I thought watching that Kerr gave him "do what you want" orders and it should have been changed quickly if he did. He needed to stay wide and too many times when we regained possession we had no wide outlets. Kilbane was absolutely anonymous.

I thought connolly was no worse than the rest. Keane and he had no service except ludicrous long high balls and crosses. Connolly at least dropped back to win possession and was involved in two good chances doing so. Morrison was like a headless chicken.

The defence was useless. Harte was utterly pathetic and gave the ball away 9/10 times. Carr was again lucky to stay on the pitch although he was mostly exposed by the fact that there were two swiss running at him unopposed for the whole match. Breen was at fault for the second goal but was at least generally more reliable than O'Shea who just fell to pieces on the day. He had an absolute nightmare.

Given made on or two very good saves, he resisted the urge to take the man down for the first goal and showwd poor handling for the second. In fairness two him, what went on in front of him for 90 minute would have unsettled anyone.

I dunno about how much you can blame Kerrs tactic. I think there are very few better teams than what he put out. I think if he did give Duff a free role, he was wrong not to correct it but I think the lads bottled it. Was a sickening 2 hours of my life.

vorbis

I think the blame is kind of 50:50 between players and manager. I agree our central midfield was dreadful. Your criticism of Duff is unwarranted though. The reason he was cutting inside was that he was a left side player playing on the right! I'm sorry but I could barely list 3 players who who could actually switch wings effectively. I know its a stupid thought, but I'd have though Doherty would have been worth bringing on when it became evident (pretty quickly actually) that long balls would be the only thing available to Ireland.

GuanYin

I've seen Duff play on the right quite a few times and he didn't cut inside as much as he did on Saturday. He was drifting an awful lot and apart from the fact it meant Carr was isolated when we lost possession, it also meant that we didn't have many options when the ball came back to us. I think someone should have noticed this.

IgnatiusJRiley

Originally posted by ChumpStain
You just wonder what would have happened if Brian Kerr was in charge at the start of the campaign.

The exact same. The team just isn't good enough no matter who the manager is.

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by The Muppet
It is Mc Carthys and FAIs fault that we are out of the comp. not because of the first 2 results but because they made the one player who would have inspired the team to succeed retire early from International soccer. Where are all the Muppet's who were saying that Ireland didn,t need Keano now. Let them compare the group we have failed to get out of with the one we qualified
for the world cup from.

The facts are that two games ago, we had qualification in our own hands. A home win against Russia followed by a draw against Switzerland—not a tall order for realistic contenders—would have guaranteed us a play-off place at least and would probably (would definitely as it turned out) have won us the group. Blaming McCarthy, Keane or the FAI is disingenuous at this point.

Forget Keane. He's gone. He's not coming back. Move on.

Brian Kerr: use the next 10 months of financially unrewarding friendlies to bring in some of those kids you've done so well with in the recent past. Blood the new team that will compete in the next WC qualifiers. (Bit like McCarthy did back in 1996)

Never mind about the FIFA rankings. Sure they'll go down for a while but they're not important. It's more important not to damage our qualification seedings any more than necessary. At the moment, we're probably ranked in the third stream in Europe.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Only in ireland do you send the heart of you midfield and arguably th ebest player home on the eve of the world cup.

And only in ireland, in a match you absolutely have to win to qualify in order to play in a major competition until the next world cup, do you play your best player on the wrong side.

Even the english arent that stupid.

The Muppet

Posted By Hairy Home

Forget Keane. He's gone. He's not coming back. Move on.

I know that , In fact I knew that the second i heard about the players statement at the last Word Cup. I never expected Keane to play for Ireland after that Statement and not many of us would return in a similar situation .

My Point is that had keano still being Playing for us our chances of qualifying from what was an easy group would have been greater . It is not Kerrs fault that keane retired but the ineptitude and mis management of Mc Carthy and The FAI and Looking at the performance on saturday knowing we had a player who may have made such a difference not playing really annoys me. I

I know there is no point in going into all this again so I will leave it at that but like many I am ANGRY about our performance.:mad:

GuanYin

Keane had signalled his intention to retire after the last world cup before the fight with McCarthy. Even if things had ended amicably, I doubt he would be playing for Ireland now, unless you are suggesting both he and Fergeson are lying about Keanes hip problems?

scojones

Originally posted by Mr_Roger_Bongos
Only in ireland do you send the heart of you midfield and arguably th ebest player home on the eve of the world cup.

And only in ireland, in a match you absolutely have to win to qualify in order to play in a major competition until the next world cup, do you play your best player on the wrong side.

Even the english arent that stupid.

The match was not played in ireland.....

super_furry

It is not Kerrs fault that keane retired but the ineptitude and mis management of Mc Carthy and The FAI and Looking at the performance on saturday knowing we had a player who may have made such a difference not playing really annoys me. I

Blame Alex Ferguson too because he's as much at fault as anyone else. People forget that Keane went back on his word to Kerr, when he promised he would play for his country again and then broke his word because Alex decided he wasn't allowed to play. Anyway, it's a moot point because I don't think the prescence of Keane would have made much difference.

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by super_furry
Blame Alex Ferguson too because he's as much at fault as anyone else. People forget that Keane went back on his word to Kerr, when he promised he would play for his country again and then broke his word because Alex decided he wasn't allowed to play. Anyway, it's a moot point because I don't think the prescence of Keane would have made much difference.

Can I add....
that Alex decided Ryan Giggs was not allowed to play for wales a few years back.

And now van Nistelrooy is having problems with the dutch Manager...

It shows that He has a big part to play...

The Muppet

that Alex decided Ryan Giggs was not allowed to play for wales a few years back.

Gigg still plays for wales, Rudd has a problem with the dutch coach and the problems in that squad pre date his move to UTD.

Sykeirl its thru that kean had said he was retiring after the world cup and most know the reason why.

Super furry
Anyway, it's a moot point because I don't think the prescence of Keane would have made much difference.

Thats Bullsh1t ,If you,re saying Keane made no difference to the Irish team when he played you know Fnck all about Football.

DaithiSurfer

how come its the same mini-dunphies on boards that turn every discussin about Irish football on boards into a 'if only keane.....' thread.
Jesus lads get over it. Its history now, or have you nothing else to talk about.

The Muppet

how come its the same mini-dunphies on boards that turn every discussin about Irish football on boards into a 'if only keane.....' thread.

Because we care.

DaithiSurfer

move on.

GuanYin

Originally posted by The Muppet
Gigg still plays for wales, Rudd has a problem with the dutch coach and the problems in that squad pre date his move to UTD.

Sykeirl its thru that kean had said he was retiring after the world cup and most know the reason why.



Thats Bullsh1t ,If you,re saying Keane made no difference to the Irish team when he played you know Fnck all about Football.

You smooothed nicely over the fact that Keane said he would play for Ireland and then had to go back on that due to medical advice.

Thus, no matter what happened in Saipan, Keane would not be playing for Ireland now, thus any reference to him is irrelevant.

Dustaz

Originally posted by The Muppet

Thats Bullsh1t ,If you,re saying Keane made no difference to the Irish team when he played you know Fnck all about Football.

Lets just say hes in good company on this thread.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by Dustaz
Lets just say hes in good company on this thread.

Max whootage Dustaz

Dustaz

Its true the injuries played a pivitol role in his early retirment

Well, the money relating to his injuries did.

but Keane said himself that he would find it difficult to play with some of the "muppets " still on the team and that was also a consideration when he retired

The Dutch have a fine tradition of hating each others guts and still going out and qualifying and playing well in major tournaments. This is keanes own problem, not the FAI, Not McCarthys and not Kerrs.

I assume he was talking about the ones tha released the statement saying he wasn,t welcome back.

Oh, you mean the ones who had retired by the time he made his decision? For gods sake, your not that stupid, why do you insist on posting such rubbish when it comes to this man.

super_furry

Thats Bullsh1t ,If you,re saying Keane made no difference to the Irish team when he played you know Fnck all about Football.

He wouldn't. A motivated and hungry Keane, who wanted to play for Ireland and for the jersey would have made a huge difference. However in his current state of mind and after all the things he's said about the players and the things that have been said about him, his pressence would do more harm than good at this stage. After everything that's gone on, it's a good thing that he decided not to come back because too many bridges have been burnt.

super_furry

Originally posted by The Muppet
Because we care.

Shame Keane doesnt............;)

smemon

keane didnt play on saturday and that was down to mccarthy and the fai, nothing to do with ferguson, he's just trying to protect his players from injuries and tiredness, like any good manager would. ferguson didnt force keane to retire.

back on topic> i read in some paper, dont know what one, that we were 28th in europe over the qualification campaign. thats a disgrace if u ask me. 28th with the likes of latvia, scotland, norway, slovenia, bosnia-herz,poland and hungary all ahead of us over the 8 games.

why do the irish always make hard work of nothing? its been like that for as long as i can remember. why would someone criticise duff for not defending? he's an attacker for god's sake, you cant have the whole team tracking back.

we need to ditch the oldies like breen and holland, kinsella and replace them with alan quinn, reid, miller.

i dunno if anyone seen gillete soccer saturday at the weekend but there was about 10mins on lee trundle (swansea). he's got irish links and could play for us. ive honestly never seen tricks like that IN MY LIFE, i could have sworn this fella was brazilian, looks fantastic. i'd give him a shot in a friendly although playing for swansea isnt exactly testing. at least he'd have a fighting spirit.

The Muppet

Posted By dustaz
The Dutch have a fine tradition of hating each others guts and still going out and qualifying and playing well in major tournaments.

How did they do in the last world cup then, Thats exactly what I mean about knowing Fnck all about football.

Posted by Super Furry
A motivated and hungry Keane, who wanted to play for Ireland and for the jersey would have made a huge difference. However in his current state of mind and after all the things he's said about the players and the things that have been said about him, his pressence would do more harm than good at this stage. After everything that's gone on, it's a good thing that he decided not to come back because too many bridges have been burnt.

I agree 100% with that , Its a shame that we dont have a motivated and hungry keane which as i said is down to the ineptitude and Mismanagement Mc Carthy and the FAI.


End OF

[DF]Lenny

Originally posted by smemon


why do the irish always make hard work of nothing? its been like that for as long as i can remember. why would someone criticise duff for not defending? he's an attacker for god's sake, you cant have the whole team tracking back.

As I said earlier Duff was played on the right so kilbane could cover Harte,but Duff(and Kerr should have changed it)left Carr in trouble and drifed aimlessly inside trying to collect the ball.And can anyone remember the last competitive game that was not hard work..cmon

smemon

well obviously you have to work for a win but i mean come on, albania, gorgia, russia and swizerland. ireland were ranked higher than all of those comming into that group.

macedonia, a handy game on paper that turned into a nightmare, lichenstein, another handy game on paper, turned out to be one of the worst results in the history of irish soccer, a 0-0 draw against a village.

if u go back further theres more, it just REALLY frustrates me that we have to be underdogs to win. on saturday most people expected at least a draw at least. again the irish failed to deliver. the irish can't handle pressure for some reason.

look at france, a 100%record, 24 out of 24 points in an easy group. everyone expected them to win everygame and they did, now why cant we be the same?? i didnt expect us to win every game but to lose 3! and draw 2!

we went unbeaten against holland and portugal, andorra, cyprus and estonia, finished joint top. there should have been no problem in this group. like it or not, roy is the difference. we still have no captain or leader.

Dr Bolouswki

Originally posted by Killah_B

And as for the swiss? Rats the lot of them - half empty stadium for most of their qualifiers? where were they when they were sihte?

Originally posted by Oswald Osbourne

That's funny, it really is! I wonder were you one of the 12,000 or so people who turned up at Lansdowne to see us lose 4-1 to Denmark in 1985? Or perhaps you were in the half empty stadium when Ireland beat Bulgaria 2-0 in 1987?

I was 15 and didn't give two flying fcuks about football - since my conversion (1993) I've been to about 12 games - all of them friendlies because I can't get tickets to competitive matches...

Sorry I don't match up to your exacting standards of being 'a fan'... maybe I should practice being a sanctimonious twat like you, but it seems you have too much of a head start...

I'll slag bandwagon jumpers regardless of where they are from, and have done regularly on these boards... I call a spade a spade, and a twat and twat.

Twat.