Kerr blew it.

vorbis · 12-10-2003 6:06pm #1

Firstly, I admire Kerr as a manager. However yesterday he bottled it as much as the maligned McCarthy ever did. What I'm talking about is the placcement of Duff. Why is there this notion that Duff can be switched all around the field in order to do a job for you. He is a world class left winger. He would get his game in any team in that position. As a right winger he is average. I'm sure everyone watched incredulously as Duff tried to make half the impact on the right as he normally makes on the right. Honestly I expected more from Kerr.

Pepe LeFrits · 12-10-2003 6:25pm

The placement of Duff didn't matter in that game. The game was lost in central defence and central midfield. Duff has played for Chelski on the right afaik and he did superbly against Spain on the right as well.

smemon · 12-10-2003 6:43pm

no player should be played out of position.
o' shea is a left back, he can play cb when he's world class defenders along side him at manu not at ireland.

everone's saying duff was played on the right to accomodate harte, what kind of idiot puts harte in the starting line-up anyway??? it should have been o'shea, breen, o'brien and carr with finnan on the right of midfield and duff on the left.

HARTE DOESNT DESERVE ANYMORE CHANCES, HE'S GOT ENOUGH, TIME TO GIVE HIM THE BOOT. am the only one that is shocked at kerr for not bringing in youngsters, he wont take risks.

people were laughing at my posts saying kerr doesnt bring in youngsters, ya's laughed at my starting 11, your not laughin anymore. the team was too experienced, not the right balance in terms of caps. you need young blood who are desperate to make an impact.

Caesar_Bojangle · 12-10-2003 7:23pm

I read in the paper today that Kerr basically said the reason we didn't qualify was down to losing the first two games against Switzerland and Russia. Hold on a minute Kerr. If Ireland at home, under his management struggled to hold onto a draw against Russia, how did he expect McCarthy to pull off a win in Russia?

I'm not saying if McCarthy had stayed on that we’d have qualified, but I reckon the decision to let him go was far too rash. As he is quite possibly the best manager Ireland has had, or ever will have. So don't lay the entire blame on McCarthy, Kerr.

Villain · 12-10-2003 7:26pm

Originally posted by Caesar_Bojangle
I read in the paper today that Kerr basically said the reason we didn't qualify was down to losing the first two games against Switzerland and Russia.

Did you hear the interview??

He was quoted out of context, I'm not trying to defend him yesterday, but if you listen to the interview he talked about dropping points and he remarked on the first 2 games ALONG with other games when he was incharge.

Paper never refused ink and their twisting his words.

Oswald Osbourne · 12-10-2003 7:38pm

Originally posted by smemon

people were laughing at my posts saying kerr doesnt bring in youngsters, ya's laughed at my starting 11, your not laughin anymore. the team was too experienced, not the right balance in terms of caps. you need young blood who are desperate to make an impact.

No, rest assured, we're still laughing at you and your selection. Bad enough as yesterdays performance was it would have been far worse with your 'insane armchair manager on tour XI' picks.

Remember, just cos Kerr got it wrong, doesn't automatically mean you called it correctly.

Lennoxschips · 12-10-2003 10:30pm

o' shea is a left back, he can play cb when he's world class defenders along side him at manu not at ireland.

O'Shea is a centre-back! He plays out of position on the left at Man U.

The problem with O'Shea is that he wasn't given enough competitive starts by McCarthy (just one!) to integrate into the team properly. McCarthy didn't even bring him to the World Cup...

vorbis · 13-10-2003 12:15am

I have never seen Duff even match what he can achieve on the left on the right. As for O Shea, in fairness it was a tough call. Perhaps someone like O Brien might have started but he's no great shakes either. I think our core problem is still the same though. Ever since that prima donna Keane left, our central midfield has been deadweight.

eirebhoy · 13-10-2003 11:32am

Originally posted by smemon
no player should be played out of position.
o' shea is a left back, he can play cb when he's world class defenders along side him at manu not at ireland.

As Lennoxchips said, O'Shea is a Centre half. If you ask O'Shea what his favourite position is that is what he would tell you.

people were laughing at my posts saying kerr doesnt bring in youngsters, ya's laughed at my starting 11, your not laughin anymore.

I'm still laughing!

What I'm talking about is the placcement of Duff. Why is there this notion that Duff can be switched all around the field in order to do a job for you. He is a world class left winger. He would get his game in any team in that position. As a right winger he is average. I'm sure everyone watched incredulously as Duff tried to make half the impact on the right as he normally makes on the right. Honestly I expected more from Kerr.

Ireland's best player by far on Saturday was Duff. He did just as good on the right as he would have done on the left with the performance his team mates put in. You can't critisize Kerr for that decision as plenty of managers would have done the same in his position as Kilbane couldn't be dropped on recent performances. Ranieri plays Duff on the right and Gronkjaer on the left when it should be the other way round and he doesn't get critisized becaused they get the results. The same can be said about the England team as they always play a right-footer on the left wing but nothing is said again.

DaithiSurfer · 13-10-2003 11:46am

The whole team bottled it yesterday.
There is no one person to blame.
There was not 1 good performance from all players on the pitch.
Everyone gave the ball away at some stage (not just gave it away nut PASSED it to a swiss).

Look at Kerrs results so far for the senior team.
Its disgraceful in the competitive games.
I admire the man, but he's not up to the job here.
People keep saying he got us to the brink.
He did not. Albania and Georgia gut us to the bring with their results agains the other teams.

IgnatiusJRiley · 13-10-2003 11:51am

Originally posted by smemon

people were laughing at my posts saying kerr doesnt bring in youngsters, ya's laughed at my starting 11, your not laughin anymore.

Yes we are!!! New players wouldn't have made a positive difference. O'Shea was a perfect example of what a negative difference inexperience makes.
That wasn't the sort of game to throw an inexperienced person into.
So cop on.

IgnatiusJRiley · 13-10-2003 11:54am

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
People keep saying he got us to the brink.
He did not. Albania and Georgia gut us to the bring with their results agains the other teams.

True. Very true. I'd still give Kerr a chance to prove himself though.

DaithiSurfer · 13-10-2003 12:03pm

I believe he should get a chance too, but i mark his report card as

D - Must do better.

hallelujajordan · 13-10-2003 1:03pm

The main reason I would question Kerr is with regard to the substitutions he made . . . Kilbane was off-form all evning and I thought that bringing in Morrisson and switching Duff to the left was an obvious move but should have happened earlier . . !

As regards bringing Finnan and Kinsella on at a time when we should have been throwing caution to the wind and hunting for goals I am completely baffled . .. . I think at that stage Kerr had made up his own mind that it wasn't going to happen and just wanted to give Kinsella a last hurrah !

scojones · 13-10-2003 1:09pm

Lads... why the hell is kilbane still in the irish squad? seriously, he's a big, awkward, floppy disk!@# My god i hate him.

super_furry · 13-10-2003 1:10pm

I'm not blaming anyone for that specific defeat, but I must say that Kerr went down in my estimation after he tried to lay the blame for not qualifying at the door of Mick McCarthy. He said "Everybody knew when I began in the job that it was going to be a very hard task. We have given it a good go and got to the last match with a chance, but we had too much to do after losing the first two games and conceding too many goals in them."

Kerr has eleven games to turn things around and was found wanting. He criticises McCarthy for losing to Russia and Switzerland, but with two games to go we had to beat one of those teams to quailify and he couldn't manage it either.

super_furry · 13-10-2003 1:13pm

Lads... why the hell is kilbane still in the irish squad? seriously, he's a big, awkward, floppy disk!@# My god i hate him.

But who else is there? Healy is nowhere near the player he's being hyped to be and there really is no-one else. People forget the tiny pool of players that we have to choose from and don't realise the magnatude of the achievements past managers have made by qualifying for major tournaments.

scojones · 13-10-2003 1:21pm

we'd be better off playing with 10 men. Argh!!!

Hairy Homer · 13-10-2003 1:26pm

Get the young lads in. It's where Kerr made his reputation. It's what we need to do now. We have talent. Loads of it. And where we don't have talent we have desire and spirit. Put that all together and you get a top-10 rated national side.

vorbis · 13-10-2003 2:17pm

young blood is not always the answer to everything. I think in general we have pretty decent players in most positions. The main problem seemed to be the lack of a positive style of play. It seemed the only thing we could resort to was hoofing it forward or giving it to Duff.
As for Duff on the right. Just because he has been played there does not mean he has excelled there. His best games for both club and country have come on the left. Quite simply, how is a left footed player supposed to go past people on the right. As for Kilbane, do you honestly think he is a better left wing than Duff. And also the only reason England play right sided players on the left is because they don't have anyone for that position!

The Muppet · 13-10-2003 2:32pm

Lads... why the hell is kilbane still in the irish squad? seriously, he's a big, awkward, floppy disk!@# My god i hate him.

Posted By Super Furry
But who else is there?

Eh, hows about Duff in kilbanes position ,he might do ok there.:rolleyes:

smemon · 13-10-2003 6:25pm

i cant wait to see the youngsters such as miller, quinn and reid play for ireland.

my mistake, yes o'shea is a cb, i meant to say he plays better as a left back. o' brien and o'shea should be the cb's for ireland with finnan and carr the 2 full backs. that is our best line of defense. forget cunningham and breen, their too old and slow, give c'ham another year or so and gradually introduce o'brien. get rid of breen.

all the players mentioned at the start are our best midfield along with healy who is being slated. healy won a few tackles and although he was crap, he played better than anyone bar duff.

duff should be given A FREE ROLE!!! that player is a gem and he is wasted in fixed positions, let him play were he wants and he'll perform. just behind robbie on the left i think is his favourite position, we dont need 2 strikers, crowd the midfield and you'll get the ball, the opposition cant hurt you when youve got the ball.

kerr is afraid to experiment. hopefully he'll have learnt that a team 'on paper' which looks usually never lives up to expectations.

Lennoxschips · 13-10-2003 6:38pm

duff should be given A FREE ROLE!!! that player is a gem and he is wasted in fixed positions, let him play were he wants and he'll perform. just behind robbie on the left i think is his favourite position, we dont need 2 strikers, crowd the midfield and you'll get the ball, the opposition cant hurt you when youve got the ball.

Yep, games are won and lost in midfield. When we had Roy it was almost like we were playing a 4-5-2 formation. Whatever the opinions regarding Saipangate, Roy is gone, and he'll never be back, so we need to crowd the midfield in order to compensate for the loss of him.

GuanYin · 13-10-2003 6:42pm

Originally posted by smemon
i cant wait to see the youngsters such as miller, quinn and reid play for ireland.

Miller and Reid yes, Alan Quinn has no ambition whatsoever, he stayed at Sheff Weds even when bigger clubs came looking for him. He has done nothing at any decent level of the game to suggest he could be an international footballer. He's also in his twenties.

Originally posted by smemon
o' brien and o'shea should be the cb's for ireland with finnan and carr the 2 full backs. that is our best line of defense.

You seem to put an awful lot of faith in the fact O'Brien is playing champions league football at NEwcastle in suggesting that he is any good.

"Just cause the fúckers got a library card, doesn't make him Yoda"

Titus "where am I?" Bramble and Nicky "Turn with the grace of a Ferry" Dabiszas also play CL and Prem football with Newcastle. I think they are well in Breen's league.

O'Brien is decent when he has an experienced defender who reads the game well beside him (at the moment Woodgate). He makes huge mistakes on a regular basis and relies on the fact he's pacey enough to get back to make the tackle to aquit himself at that level.

Newsflash, O'Shea is not an experienced CB and I would worry greatly about them both coming in together. Cunningham is a far more reliable, experienced and competent defender and I hope to god he doesn't retire for a year or two.

From the rest of your armchair managing I'm just laughing. Miller, Reid and Andy Quinn our are best midfield?

Reid has about 60 first team division one games to his name. Quinn has a hundred plus Division one and two games and Miller has what, maybe 20 Scottish premier appearances and 2-3 CL games?

Our best midfield? Rigggghhhht!

smemon · 13-10-2003 10:37pm

and your saying holland, kinsella, carsley, kilbane are all better??? healy, andy reid, quinn and miller are much better from what i've seen of them. just because a player has 30 or 40 caps to his name doesnt mean he's any good, look at breen, kilbane, babb....

o'brien is playing at the highest level every week, yes he makes mistakes but the overall package is better than breen. breen scores one goal in the world cup and all of a sudden he's a national hero. im not joking here or exagerating, gary breen is nearly always involved in any goal we concede.
he missed 3 headers from crosses against the swiss, im not saying he should have score them all but he didnt even hit the target. 2 of the 3 were what i'd call scoreable opportunities.

we need more youth, midfield is too old and creaky, slow and weak. as lenoxchips says midfield is usually were games are lost and won. having 5 in midfield means even if some are playing poorly, you still have the numbers to crowd the opposition out.

AngelofFire · 13-10-2003 11:30pm

I think duff should play in the centre of midfield alongside a holding player maybe colin healy this would give him the freedom to roam left to right it would also make him our chied playmaker. Mark Kennedy is better than kevin kilbane hed do a good job at left midfield. Liam miller should be on the right he has proven himself to be able to perform in that postion at the highest level

Our future team should look something like this

Given

---Carr

O`shea

O`brien

Finnan

--Miller

Healy

Duff

Kennedy----

Keane

morrisson

Duff should be given a liscence to roam and play a more versatile role most of the top european teams have moved away from the rigid 4-4-2 ireland should follow suit. Our style of play at the moment is too 1 dimensional

jonno · 14-10-2003 12:03am

I think players like Stephen Reid, Liam Miller, Andy O' Brien, Rory Delap, Stephen McPhail, and Mark Kennedy should be given a chance to shine. Kennedy was playing good football last season and is more reliable than Kilbane.

There are also youth players out there that would be itching for a chance to show themselves such as:

Defenders:
Jim Goodwin,
Alan Maybury,

Midfield:
Andy Reid,
Ritchie Partridge,
Michael Foley-Sheridan,
Barry Quinn,
Thomas Butler.

Strikers:
Graham Barrett,
Alan Quinn,
Alan Lee.

None of the above players have really had a real chance to show what they can do. We would have a stronger squad if we could just mingle these young players in with the quality players that we already have. There could be alot of different variations to pick from.

My future Irish team:

Given

Carr

O'Brien

O'Shea

Finnan

Reid

Miller

Healy

Duff

Keane

Barrett

or:

Given

Carr

O'Brien

O'Shea

Finnan

Partridge---Miller----McPhail---Kennedy

Duff

Keane

Lennoxschips · 14-10-2003 12:21am

If Cardiff get promoted we may see Graham Kavanagh running the Irish midfield for the WC2006 qualifiers. Anything is better than Matt Holland at this stage.

Ronaldo7 · 14-10-2003 1:26am

Alan Lee

Hes a hot prospect...when he gets over his injury he would be one to watch. At a good team now(Cardiff) and is one to watch at Christmas when he is fit again...fat boy richard dunne injured him in Ireland training. :rolleyes:

BaZmO* · 14-10-2003 10:18am

Originally posted by smemon
my mistake, yes o'shea is a cb, i meant to say he plays better as a left back. o' brien and o'shea should be the cb's for ireland

You're contradicting yourself there mate. You say that O'Shea is a CB but plays better as as a left back but should play as a CB??? Me scratches me head at that one!!

"Just cause the fúckers got a library card, doesn't make him Yoda"

LOL

Liam miller should be on the right he has proven himself to be able to perform in that postion at the highest level

Highest level?? Explain this one to me???

B.

xzodia · 14-10-2003 10:41am

well its nice to see all the great managers of irish homes are out again.

the team dont qualify and its blame the manager

people say that Kerr is blaming mccarty for us not qualifying and they get on Kerr's back about it. These are more than likely the same people who screamed for McCarty's blood and said it was his fault if we dont qualify.

The fact is the team were Sh!t and had no convicion to play

the intorduction of new blood is a good idea but in time you cant go replace a whole team.

Kone · 14-10-2003 11:14am

Bring in the young lads, integrate them with the existing squad.... Kerr is not to blame, give him a chance ffs

eirebhoy · 14-10-2003 11:43am

Originally posted by BaZmO*
Highest level?? Explain this one to me???

Lyon, Rangers, Bayern Munich.

BaZmO* · 14-10-2003 12:15pm

Originally posted by eireboy
Lyon, Rangers, Bayern Munich.

As far as I know he was substituted in all those matches!

And Rangers = Highest Level :rolleyes:

Listen, don't get me wrong I'm not saying that Liam Miller isn't a great player and that he's not going to be an integral part of the Irish squad in the future. I'm sure he will be along with many other up and coming Irish players. But you can’t just start changing a whole squad straight away. You have to slowly integrate these players into the squad alongside experienced players giving the younger players enough time to develop.

And as seen as you all seem to be throwing bouquets at Miller, Martin O’Neill’s plans regarding him seem to validate the points I’m making, i.e. him being a "sub" in most of the games that he’s made an impact.

I just think that some of the suggestions that are being made regarding the Irish line up are ludicrous!!

Reid

Miller

Healy

Duff

or

Partridge---Miller----McPhail---Kennedy

or

Miller--Healy----Duff

Kennedy

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe some of them might be future contenders but most of them just haven't cut the mustard when asked of them.

All I'm asking lads is to get a bit of perspective regarding this matter!!

B.

vorbis · 14-10-2003 12:20pm

people are going a bit over the top all right. However Kerr does have some blame over failing to at least try to improve central midfield. He has resolutely stuck with Kinsella Holland even though neither have performed since the world cup. Perhaps Kavannagh or Miller can be future prospects to replace one of these deadweights.

eirebhoy · 14-10-2003 12:26pm

Originally posted by vorbis
Perhaps Kavannagh or Miller can be future prospects to replace one of these deadweights.

Its a real pity that Kavanagh is nearly 30 though as I'd love to see him get a chance to play at the top level for a few years. He should have been given more of a chance by Mick years ago. Its amazing that the postition we have most contenders for a place is midfield and its also our weakest position in most matches.

smemon · 14-10-2003 6:43pm

Originally posted by BaZmO*
You're contradicting yourself there mate. You say that O'Shea is a CB but plays better as as a left back but should play as a CB??? Me scratches me head at that one!!

yeah, another post that didnt sound too bright looking back, o' shea for manu plays best as a left back. i do believe he is a better lb than cb but he's so talented that playing cb for ireland would be better to us, we dont want breen in there for example in years to come.

carr, o'brien ,o'shea as the defense means finnan can slip into left back, although i dont believe their in their best positions, as a unit, there the best combination ireland can have.

________________________given________________________

carr____________o'brien__________o'shea____________finnan

quinn___________healy___________miller_____________A.reid

_____________________________duff____________________

_______________________keane_______________________

thats my team, although maybe miller on the right and quinn in the centre.

eirebhoy · 14-10-2003 11:36pm

Smemon, i'm just wondering do you think Cunningham should be dropped because I never see him in any of your teams? I know he is the oldest player in the squad but he is still our best centre half by far. He is one of Birminghams best players, he has played 7 matches for them this season and he didn't concede a goal in 6 of them. The match that he did concede goals was against Man United when the keeper was sent off and another match he wasn't able to play Birmingham conceded two goals.

He is 32 and will be 33 when the World cup qualifiers start. That is definitely not too old to get through the qualifiers and maybe the World Cup if we get there. Steve Staunton was 33 during the World cup while Niall Quinn was 36. Also, Denis Irwin is 38 this month and Teddy Sheringham is 37 and they are still playing against the likes of United and Arsenal.

He doesn't play as well for Ireland because he isn't playing beside a very reliable partner but if he had a player like O'Shea beside him they would make each other look better. O'Shea has the Speed while Cunnigham has everything else. I'd love to see an O'Shea-Cunningham partnership with Cunningham playing in a sweeper role. I never thought we had a good team on paper but I'd say we will when the qualifiers come around.

smemon · 15-10-2003 6:52pm

cunningham is a solid player and gives 100% every game but he's injury prone and with a young flair players in the side i just dont think he fits in to the style of play, having said that he can teach the young lads and organise them more than anyone else.

at the present time he's our best cb but im sure that will change. i think o'brien can fill cunninghams boots. c'ham is as u say 33 come next season, although thats not too bad, he'll be 35 come the world cup. im not fond of old centre backs no matter how good they are, keown, blanc, staunton, hierro etc... they are not the future and for that reason i would keep c'ham as a backup player or maybe take him in for some the smaller fixtures.

GuanYin · 15-10-2003 7:10pm

Originally posted by smemon
cunningham is a solid player and gives 100% every game but he's injury prone and with a young flair players in the side i just dont think he fits in to the style of play, having said that he can teach the young lads and organise them more than anyone else.

at the present time he's our best cb but im sure that will change. i think o'brien can fill cunninghams boots. c'ham is as u say 33 come next season, although thats not too bad, he'll be 35 come the world cup. im not fond of old centre backs no matter how good they are, keown, blanc, staunton, hierro etc... they are not the future and for that reason i would keep c'ham as a backup player or maybe take him in for some the smaller fixtures.

But surely you play your best players at the time.

So now, Cunningham and O'Shea are the best CB pairing, you hope that O'Shea learns from Cunningham and when Cunningham retires, you integrate O'Brien (or Dunne or even John Thompson, who you seem to be totally overlooking...he plays in the same team as Andy Reid and you seem to be an expert on his performances).

As for Whether Miller, Reid and Quinn are better than Carsley, Kilbane and Holland is not quite the issue, its about experience and the ability to play at that level.

In the Centre, Carsley hasn't had a bad game for Ireland really. Holland and Kilbane played woefully last saturday, but they are decent workhorse players.

They are not the future, but anyone who suggests that they would have done better last saturday is insane.

For my money, McPhail and Delap should be given a chance. Delap has been the best Irish central midfielder playing in the premiership that will play for Ireland. McPhail has come on in leaps and bounds.

The Muppet · 15-10-2003 8:11pm

McPhail has come on in leaps and bounds.

You could be just being decieved by the fact he is playing at a lower level and so appears to have improved. There a few premiership midfield players without us having to resort to Division 1 standard yet.

Bateman · 16-10-2003 5:30pm

>Division 1 standard

That would be a generous description of Holland/Kinsella.

Kerr blew it.

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