Gaza Blast - Quick to blame.

Hobbes · 15-10-2003 9:48am #1

Wow it just happened recently and Israel already say it was palistine that did it and all the bombers died (conventiently) in the blast.

Why would they need suicide bombers in Palistine? They could just set up a trap?

Seems a bit like history repeating itself

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3193248.stm

Hmm and the guy in charge of setting up the peace plan dead?

Sparks · 15-10-2003 10:20am

Hmm. And this only a day or two after a bomb-making lab was found in Israel...
Maybe it's just the FF-induced cynicism, but I'm not sure that the palestinians should get the blame automatically for this one.

SkepticOne · 15-10-2003 10:28am

Originally posted by Sparks
Hmm. And this only a day or two after a bomb-making lab was found in Israel...

What is the relevance of this?

Sparks · 15-10-2003 10:44am

Originally posted by SkepticOne
What is the relevance of this?

What's the relevance of a lab found in israel being run by an israeli, making bombs of the same type used by palestinian militants, the day before a bomb goes off in Palestine hitting the US convoy, an act that can only damage palestinian interests?
At a time when the damaging of palestinian interests is offical Israeli policy?

Gee, I dunno skeptic, could you connect those dots for me?

15-10-2003 11:33am

Yes you would have to be sceptical about this attack, because Israel have done worse before - however you could understand that a Palestinian bomber could well have done it due to the US being Israels number 1 ally, and showing no signs or restraining the Israelis with their recent attacks.

growler · 15-10-2003 12:42pm

let the blame game begin , the palestinians would have to be extremely dumb to deliberately blow up that convoy , so much so that anyone cynical would assume it to be a bit of creative politics by Mossad.

The palestinians are saying it was an Israeli land mine left behind yesterday. I can't link to this report , so text below:

Text of report by Palestinian radio Voice of Palestine on 15 October

AFP has reported that three Americans were killed when a land mine exploded in Bayt Hanun area, near Erez Crossing this morning.

Palestinian sources said the land mine was left by the occupation army, which stormed the area yesterday [14 October]. AFP added that the explosion took place when a US diplomatic convoy was passing there on its way to Gaza city.

[Head of PLO Negotiations Committee] Dr Sa'ib Urayqat considered the explosion of the land mine under a US convoy as extremely serious, adding that the Palestinian leadership is following up the issue. Urayqat ruled out the possibility that the US diplomatic convoy was the target of any Palestinian side.

Hobbes · 15-10-2003 12:53pm

yea when I mentioned history repeating itself I was talking about the USS Liberty (and I read recently the US had plances with nukes in air ready to hit egypt over it at the time).

Not to mention the big report by the UN telling Israel to stop killing thier people.

They (Israel security forces) have used remote controlled roadside bombs as well to take out targets.

So I wouldn't remove them from the blame just yet.

As for palistine hitting a US target? Like that worked wonders for Bin Laden, only someone that clearly wants thier country wiped off the planet or put under US dictatorship would do such a thing.

Drifter · 15-10-2003 1:14pm

Originally posted by Sparks
What's the relevance of a lab found in israel being run by an israeli, making bombs of the same type used by palestinian militants, the day before a bomb goes off in Palestine hitting the US convoy, an act that can only damage palestinian interests?
At a time when the damaging of palestinian interests is offical Israeli policy?

Gee, I dunno skeptic, could you connect those dots for me?

Lemme get this straight. This guy Yadgarov who is now in Israeli police custody is actually a Mossad agent. Is that what you're saying?

Sparks · 15-10-2003 2:00pm

Originally posted by Drifter
Lemme get this straight. This guy Yadgarov who is now in Israeli police custody is actually a Mossad agent. Is that what you're saying?

Where did I say that it was Mossad?
Weren't several civilian israelis arrested this month for carrying out attacks on palestinians?
Ease back there on the "gosh, he said there might be another explaination, he must be one of them conspiracy nuts" throttle Drifter...

Drifter · 15-10-2003 2:15pm

Originally posted by Sparks
Where did I say that it was Mossad?
Weren't several civilian israelis arrested this month for carrying out attacks on palestinians?
Ease back there on the "gosh, he said there might be another explaination, he must be one of them conspiracy nuts" throttle Drifter...

Ah sure I already know that you're a conspiracy nut, Sparks.

Anyway, it was your reference to "official Israeli policy" that made me assume that you meant the Israeli Government were involved in some way in the attack. Also, your reference to FF-induced paranoia, which would seem to refer to suspicion concerning government activities.

As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on who planted the bomb.

tricky D · 15-10-2003 2:17pm

from the Guaridan/AP:
'An Associated Press reporter saw a grey wire with an on-off switch leading from the scene of the attack to a small concrete room at the side of the road.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1063311,00.html

no mention yet of any body of a suicide bomber, very strange. The accidental mine story doesn't wash with me as it seems too improbable to hit such a target wholly by accident. The palestinian police car would have got it then.

Sparks · 15-10-2003 2:22pm

Originally posted by Drifter
Ah sure I already know that you're a conspiracy nut, Sparks.

I always thought of myself as more a macadamia nut Drifter

Anyway, it was your reference to "official Israeli policy" that made me assume that you meant the Israeli Government were involved in some way in the attack. Also, your reference to FF-induced paranoia, which would seem to refer to suspicion concerning government activities.

Ah. No. Offical involvement wouldn't surprise me, but it's not necessary - they're all madder than march hares over there.

bonkey · 15-10-2003 4:12pm

Originally posted by Drifter
As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on who planted the bomb.

Which, if I understand what I've read correcly is what Sparks et al were implying - that there are other factions besides the Palestinians themselves who's interests may be served by such an attack, and there are possibilities that it wasn't an attack at all but rather a "military mishap" from left-behind landmines.

The jury is indeed still out...which is what makes the really rapid Israeli claim that it was Palestinians somewhat dubious.

jc

SkepticOne · 15-10-2003 7:01pm

Originally posted by Sparks
What's the relevance of a lab found in israel being run by an israeli, making bombs of the same type used by palestinian militants, the day before a bomb goes off in Palestine hitting the US convoy, an act that can only damage palestinian interests?
At a time when the damaging of palestinian interests is offical Israeli policy?

Gee, I dunno skeptic, could you connect those dots for me?

1. Why was he selling explosives, if he was part of a group planning an attack?

2. Who would be most likely to buy or use Isreali army uniforms?

3. The activities of palestinian militants are rarely in the interests of Palestine. The main result of them is brutal reprisals from the Israeli army, yet they go on. We are not talking about people rationally looking palestinian interests, anymore than the IRA look after Irish interests.

If the article is to be believed (as we are being asked) then it looks like a Jewish Isreali opportunist willing to sell to anyone.

Now, it could well be that some nutter Isreali radical planted the device, but this article doesn't seem (at least on the surface) to be relavent to this.

It could also be Mossad, as someone has suggested, behind the explosion. But again, a guy being caught selling explosives to the police would not support this.

Sparks · 15-10-2003 7:11pm

Originally posted by SkepticOne
1. Why was he selling explosives, if he was part of a group planning an attack?

Who said he was part of the group?
Less than a month ago, a group of israeli civilians were arrested for attacking palestinians.

2. Who would be most likely to buy or use Isreali army uniforms?

The Israeli Army, actually.

3. The activities of palestinian militants are rarely in the interests of Palestine. The main result of them is brutal reprisals from the Israeli army, yet they go on. We are not talking about people rationally looking palestinian interests, anymore than the IRA look after Irish interests.

True, good point.

Now, it could well be that some nutter Isreali radical planted the device, but this article doesn't seem (at least on the surface) to be relavent to this.

It does when taken together with the isrealis arrested earlier this month.

It could also be Mossad, as someone has suggested, behind the explosion. But again, a guy being caught selling explosives to the police would not support this.

No, but it would support a group of israeli civilians staging attacks.

Not that I'm saying that's the only explanation - it's just that the IDF are about as trustworthy as the IRA in my eyes, because of their past behaviour.

Hobbes · 15-10-2003 7:42pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3195370.stm

Typical bush response :rolleyes: The guy is so predictible. I liked his comment though.

"failure to create effective Palestinian security forces dedicated to fighting terror"

Guess no one told him that Palestine police stations are missile attacked as part of a response on terrorism.

"Palestinian authorities should have acted long ago to fight terror in all its forms," Mr Bush said.

So is he saying that attacking Israel is ok then for Palistine? I am confused.

Sparks · 15-10-2003 7:46pm

You expected better from a guy that doesn't read newspapers and instead trusts all the briefings he gets from rumsfeld and rice because he wants "objective" news?

Hobbes · 15-10-2003 7:55pm

It is amazing the how quickly the story changes. It goes from CIA in the cars to some ambassdor guys going to give some palistinians scholarships in the US? o_O

SkepticOne · 15-10-2003 8:06pm

Originally posted by Sparks
Who said he was part of the group?
Less than a month ago, a group of israeli civilians were arrested for attacking palestinians.

The thing is that the guy in the article does not tie in with someone who is involved directly with terrorism. His holding of Israeli uniforms would indicate that he is selling to those who would wish to desguise themselves as Isrealis as Palestinian bombers have done in the past.

The, Israeli Army, actually.

Obviously they would not be buying them from this guy. He would be selling them to those who would use them for non-official uses e.g. disguise and infiltration. It seems to me that the article is irrelavent, but I'm probably making too big a deal out of it. Your 'join the dots' thing got me going.

Gaza Blast - Quick to blame.

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