UTVip. Are they really cheaper that Eircom?

Our man in Havana

UTVip. Are they really cheaper that Eircom? I would like to know. What have your experiences are their significant savings or is it just clever marketing?

Views would be appreciated.

Thanks
James

rymus

Cheaper... its a fact

bi-monthly phone bills that were around the 80/90 quid mark are down to around 55/60. In fact their so cheap that I'm taking up clicksilver asap

bk

Yes, UTVip are cheaper.

If you are talking about broadband then see the bottom of the IOFFL DSL ISP Guide page for a table comparing the prices of all the DSL providers.

If you are talking about Flat Rate Dial-Up products, then yes they are cheaper. See the IOFFL 56K ISP Guide page for a table comparing the prices of all the Flat Rate services.

If you are talking about phone calls, then yes they are mostly cheaper then Eircom. They offer 25% of all of Eircoms call rates, except for Mobiles, where they offer 5% off.

I have a spreadsheet at home comparing all the call rates of Eircom, UTV and Esat if you are interested. I use this to taunt the Eircom winback reps

Da Man

Their phone call rates are not that great. You should normally get about 50% off Eircom's retail rates for national or international calls. So I'd say that UTV insisting on using their voice product implies that the flat-rate package is a loss-leader.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by Da Man
Their phone call rates are not that great. You should normally get about 50% off Eircom's retail rates for national or international calls. So I'd say that UTV insisting on using their voice product implies that the flat-rate package is a loss-leader.

I see they have a call setup charge of 3.8cent. Is this in addition to the per min rate or a minimum charge? If it is extra it would negate any savings.

morgana

No. As I understand it, the 3.8 c are like a minimum charge. A local call will cost you a minimum of 3.8 cent. If I recall correctly, Eircom's minimum charge is 5c.
And I do not use UTV for international calls, you can use any provider if you use the prefix (like 13636). It just means one more bill but hey anything which saves money ...
And UTV saves BIG time on Internet access charges

Cheers

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by morgana
No. As I understand it, the 3.8 c are like a minimum charge. A local call will cost you a minimum of 3.8 cent. If I recall correctly, Eircom's minimum charge is 5c.
And I do not use UTV for international calls, you can use any provider if you use the prefix (like 13636). It just means one more bill but hey anything which saves money ...
And UTV saves BIG time on Internet access charges

Cheers

I know they save you loads on internet but the fact that you have to use them for calls may make them dearer in the long run.

Eurorunner

007: Time to use your special investigative powers:D

Relevant Links:

Link related to minimum call charge vs. setup fee..

Telephony rates


This keeps coming up and i dont understand why. People keep assuming if they go with another telephony provider, they're going to pay more for some unknown reason. Arm yourself with the truth/facts!
If we are to take the liberty of making any assumptions then try this one:

Generally speaking, any provider is going to be cheaper than eircom at the moment because they are the dominant incumbent who feel that they dont have to drop their prices right now.

As regards your suggestion that you will lose out in the long run, well if UTV or any other telephony provider you choose increase their charges and your not happy with that, its very simple - switch to someone else!
Surely this is better than accepting that you are paying more and will continue to pay more

Ripwave

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
I know they save you loads on internet but the fact that you have to use them for calls may make them dearer in the long run.

How can using a CPS provider that is cheaper than eircom be "dearer in the long run"?

If you're already using another CPS provider, then, yes, UTV might be more expensive. But I guess they're prepared to loose that 1% of the business - it seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent you using any alternative provider for international calls if you want to, no matter who your "default" provider is.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by Ripwave
How can using a CPS provider that is cheaper than eircom be "dearer in the long run"?

If you're already using another CPS provider, then, yes, UTV might be more expensive. But I guess they're prepared to loose that 1% of the business - it seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent you using any alternative provider for international calls if you want to, no matter who your "default" provider is.

On paper they may appear to be cheaper but when you factor in the call set up charges they may then be dearer than eircom.

What I asked was if anyone is making any real saving on the phone calls?

Moriarty

People never seem to realise that eircom has a minimum call charge aswell. Taken from the eircom site here - "All calls are subject to a minimum call charge of 6.35c (inc. VAT)."

Compare that to utvs 3.8c. 'Nuff Said.

Eurorunner

Get a grip on yourself Mr. Bond ffs. Prove the point that you are making with some hard facts. I provided you with links which you never even bothered your arse to open - cos, if you had done, and had read the content of those threads, then it would be crystal as regards who is cheaper than eircom...virtually every freakin operator.


I reckon that €ircom will always have a market in Ireland...now that they have dropped 'the rat', i reckon they should adopt 'the muppet' as the face of their marketing campaign..clearly, their more hardcore customer base would be able to identify with this....:rolleyes:

The Insider

Originally posted by Moriarty
People never seem to realise that eircom has a minimum call charge aswell. Taken from the eircom site here - "All calls are subject to a minimum call charge of 6.35c (inc. VAT)."

Compare that to utvs 3.8c. 'Nuff Said.

UTV's setup charge is different from Eircom Minimum call charge. UTV has 3.8c extra charge on every single call, Eircom have a minimum call charge of 6.35c, meaning if you are only on the phone for 30 seconds and the cost of the call is under 6.35c then you will be charged 6.35c. They are 2 totally different things, and can alter the cost of your bill quite substantially.

LFCFan

this discussion just goes to show how people still aren't convinced with CPS. It's no wonder €ircon are laughing all the way to the bank. Even people on these boards who are constantly being told that CPS is better and are seeing cold hard facts are still not convinced.

• FACT! UTV are cheaper than €ircon for calls and internet and cheaper than EsatBT for Internet
• FACT! EsatBT are cheaper than €ircon and UTV for calls and cheaper than €ircon for internet

Armed with this information you should be able to make a decision as what you need, cheap internet or cheap calls. If you use your line primarily for the internet then UTV are the ones to go with. If you make a lot of calls and need the internet then EsatBT would probably be best. Basically, no matter what your needs, €ircon are to be avoided like the plague 'cause they offer no value for money.

oscarBravo

I thought it might be instructive to compare the relative impacts of Eircom's minimum call charges versus UTV's setup costs.

Here's what I found out:

• Local daytime calls:
  UTV are marginally cheaper up to 40 seconds. Eircom are cheaper up to the 3-minute mark, peaking at a difference of 2 cent. From 3 minutes on, UTV are consistently cheaper, increasingly so with call duration.
• Local evening calls:
  UTV are cheaper up to 2:40. From there to 12:15, Eircom are better, again peaking at 2 cent. After 12:15, UTV win again.
• National daytime calls:
  UTV are cheaper up to 25 seconds. Eircom are cheaper from there to 1:51, again maxing out at a 2 cent difference. UTV are cheaper all the way from there.
• National evening calls:
  Eircom are cheaper by a maximum of 2 cent from 0:42 to 3:06.

Short version: on some types of calls, Eircom will save you 2 cent per call. On all others, UTV will save you.

Shorter version: my phone bills have plummeted since I switched to UTV.

If anyone wants to check my figures, I can post the spreadsheet here.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by The Insider
UTV's setup charge is different from Eircom Minimum call charge. UTV has 3.8c extra charge on every single call, Eircom have a minimum call charge of 6.35c, meaning if you are only on the phone for 30 seconds and the cost of the call is under 6.35c then you will be charged 6.35c. They are 2 totally different things, and can alter the cost of your bill quite substantially.

As per my figures above, the maximum possible difference is 2c per call. That's 50 calls - of those particular types and durations - before it affects your bill by one euro.

I'm aware that I haven't compared international calls, but I reckon the Eircom "sweet spot" is even smaller there.

Our man in Havana

i am sold. I agree UTV are cheaper.


Eurorunner, I did check your links, I am now covinced.

oscarBravo

(Apologies for hogging the thread!)

Two more comparisons:

• Vodafone daytime:
  Eircom's advantage runs from 0:11 to 3:02, and peaks at 3c. I actually thought Eircom would have a bigger edge here, as the UTV discount on mobile calls is just 5%.
• UK daytime:
  Eircom cheaper from 0:18 to 1:03, peaking at 2c per call.

bk

Hi, a couple of poeple have PM'd me asking me to send them my spreadsheet with the call charge comparison between Eircom, UTV and Esat.

I will post it here on boards tonight when I get home.

BTW OscarBravo, that was a great post, I was about to post a similar comparison including setup charges.

For people who aren't convinced with CPS, just try it. Keep your last Eircom bill, change to Esat or UTV, give them 4 months, compare it with your Eircom bill. You will save at least 25%, trust me on this.

If you don't think you are saving money, then it costs nothing to go back to Eircom.

niallb

While this thread is concentrating on voice prices,
how many people reading it went to UTV/Nevada
for any reason other than cheaper internet access?

I received an insane bill from UTV yesterday,
claiming I had used 430 hours internet access during the month.
Bit my tongue all day on it while waiting for them to sort it out.
And to give them credit, they have taken steps to fix it.
They had accidentally charged me twice for every single call made during the month to UTVip.
(I'm checking now to see have they charged me double for any other calls).

This was due to Eircom (isn't it always) changing my local area code.
I had requested two weeks in advance of it that my number be changed to the new one.
Unfortunately they are unable to remove old numbers from your account.
The CLI seemed to match both old and new for the month, hence double billing. This meant at least full if not double price on internet calls from 1st of September.

Anyway, (promised myself I wouldn't moan about that on boards, but old habits die hard.)
when I saw my adjusted bill I did a few sums.

My total time online comes in at about 212 hours.
Eur 24.95 for the first 180 and
Eur 49.90 for the next 30+ as my net use is during the day.
That's dearer than DSL (which I can't get, so don't go there)
It's no comparison to what my bills used to be,
but that's a global change, not just UTV.

My old UTV account (pre "FRIACO") had a peak saver option which was not included in the flatrate package.
This has removed a lot of the benefit the flatrate package would have given me. I'm now on 3 weeks flatrate and 1 week premium rate.

Your mileage will vary depending on your usage patterns,
but take a very close look at what happens to your flatrate package when you go over the hours before making a final decision.

NiallB

bk

Originally posted by niallb


My total time online comes in at about 212 hours.
Eur 24.95 for the first 180 and
Eur 49.90 for the next 30+ as my net use is during the day.

Just to point out, if those 180 hours of calls are during the working day, then it would cost you about e560 per month for those 180 hours on per minute dial-up. Keep that in mind when you are paying UTV e25 per month for the same.

niallb

originally posted by bk
Just to point out, if those 180 hours of calls are during the working day, then it would cost you about e560 per month for those 180 hours on per minute dial-up...

Not on your life.
That's normal local rate or 1892 with no savings.
Easy to do a sum, harder to pay the bills :-)
Anyone who works from home like I do needs to shop around.
With the UTV PeakSaver option before "FRIACO" , that same 180 hours was closer to Eur 240.
My extra 32 hours over the 180 would have been 15 euro less than it is today.

I was just putting this in the picture as one other thing you need to look at before choosing a telephony provider.

As for international calls, I've saved noticeably since I moved to UTV.
Now if they'd only consider a flat charge whole island local call rate... ;-)

NiallB

Originally posted by niallb

It's no comparison to what my bills used to be,
but that's a global change, not just UTV.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by niallb
With the UTV PeakSaver option before "FRIACO" , that same 180 hours was closer to Eur 240.
My extra 32 hours over the 180 would have been 15 euro less than it is today.

I was just putting this in the picture as one other thing you need to look at before choosing a telephony provider.

Yes, but you are making up a hypothetical package - one where you get a number of peak hours plus an extra discount on extra hours and then comparing this with the actual package.

An even better hypothetical package would be 200 hours for 25 euros a month. This would also save you money.

There's no reason why they should carry over a discount deal from one service to another - especially while they seem to be the best deal out there.

It would be nice if the peaksaver deal was available on the FRIACO package but it isn't.

You can only compare packages that actually exist. I don't see the point in comparing existing ones with hypothetical ones.

niallb

Absolutely true, and there is no such package currently available.

However the differences between the different CPS packages mean different savings for different calling patterns.
If you make mostly out of area calls,
there's one package which will give you more savings than others,
and all the others have their particular benefits.
Hence I do think that when you're choosing you need
to look at all aspects of your telephony usage.

In addition, isn't this the forum where new packages are hammered out?
Suggestions and pressure from here has helped to create most
of the packages we are using today.
Why stop now?

NiallB

bk

Originally posted by niallb
Absolutely true, and there is no such package currently available.

However the differences between the different CPS packages mean different savings for different calling patterns.
If you make mostly out of area calls,
there's one package which will give you more savings than others,
and all the others have their particular benefits.
Hence I do think that when you're choosing you need
to look at all aspects of your telephony usage.

Agreed, that is why I use Esat for my calls (with Netsource BB).

When making comparisons you should also take into account the price difference in their internet services (UTVipXL, etc.) and how this may impact your bill.

For instance depending on your telephone usage, Esat might be cheaper, but in reality you might only save a few cent on phone calls, while you could save e5 with UTVipXL over Esat Anytime. It just depends on your usage.

In addition, isn't this the forum where new packages are hammered out?
Suggestions and pressure from here has helped to create most
of the packages we are using today.
Why stop now?

NiallB

Well how these sort of packages work, they give you 180 hours, but they hope most people only use a fraction of this. If everyone used the full 180 hours it just couldn't work.

If you reguarly use more then 180 hours, then why don't you go with Esat's 250 hour business package.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by niallb
In addition, isn't this the forum where new packages are hammered out?
Suggestions and pressure from here has helped to create most
of the packages we are using today.
Why stop now?

Indeed it is. I assumed we were just talking about current packages since the discussion was about choice of packages based on usage. Obviously there's room for improvement in all of them and this is the place where suggestions should be made.

niallb

Originally posted by bk

If you reguarly use more then 180 hours, then why don't you go with Esat's 250 hour business package.

Entropy mostly - I've been with UTV since last September
- and also my new minimum contract since upgrading to UTVip XL.

My biggest concern though is customer relations.
UTV, apart from overcharging me 350 euro yesterday,
which they sorted out within 24 hours,
have been great anytime there's been a problem.
They also didn't suggest me paying the bill and THEN having it amended.

Esat consistently misbilled me the last time I was a client,
continuing to send me bills seemingly at random for over a year after I cancelled a service (4 in total).
Two other members of my family have had similar experiences.

So... is the 250 hours package compatible with the all island local call rate?
Have they pulled their socks up on billing and customer service?

If the answers are yes, UTV will need to match at least the net hours to keep me.

NiallB

Ripwave

Originally posted by niallb
...Eur 49.90 for the next 30+ as my net use is during the day.

AFAIK, there's nothing to stop you subscribing to two different "flat rate" providers. You'd have to spend a few minutes each month reconfiguring your dialler and SMTP settings, but it's your time and your money, and if you expect to use more than 180 hours a month, you might want to consider it.

bk

Originally posted by niallb
Entropy mostly - I've been with UTV since last September
- and also my new minimum contract since upgrading to UTVip XL.

My biggest concern though is customer relations.
UTV, apart from overcharging me 350 euro yesterday,
which they sorted out within 24 hours,
have been great anytime there's been a problem.
They also didn't suggest me paying the bill and THEN having it amended.

Esat consistently misbilled me the last time I was a client,
continuing to send me bills seemingly at random for over a year after I cancelled a service (4 in total).
Two other members of my family have had similar experiences.

I agree 100% with you here, Esat CS are a joke.

So... is the 250 hours package compatible with the all island local call rate?
Have they pulled their socks up on billing and customer service?

Just checked, it is actually 260 hours at e45 per month excluding VAT (e54.45 incl VAT). You may have to lie to them in order to get it as it is a business service. Just tell them that you are self-employed.

You can find the details here

I'm not sure what you mean by all island local call rate. If you like you can take Esat CPS, but unlike UTV you don't have to, you can stay with UTV or Eircom for phone calls if you like. And yes, Esat CPS calls are an all Ireland national rate including the North.

Their CS and billing is still as crap as ever.

bk

Actually Ripwave's idea above is a good idea.

You could get:

UTVipXL ......... e25 180
I0L Anytime .... e30 180

---

Total ............. e55 360

Compared to Esat Anytime that gives you 260 hours for e55.

Obviously you would need to go with UTV for your phone service and you would have to change settings twice a month and keep track of time used, but it could work.

Instead, if you spend some of the time off peak, then you could combine UTVipXL with one of the IOL Netsmart products (remember these are off-peak only), saving a few more euro.

dahamsta

The redundancy might be useful too if connectivity is important.

adam