Nice guys & how the saying goes

Virus_Inc

I'm sure you've all heard the saying "Nice guys always finish last"

Here's my two cents on the matter....

A bloke I lived with heads out most weekends, both home and away, and chases women - usually with some success.

I have nothing against him in this respect but it's his attitude towards them that really gets me... I asked him once if he had any female friends, his reply was "What's the point?"

Was partaking in a conversation with him earlier and the conversation got to a canadian girl that he'd gone out with several times and even brought round to our flat once. I'm not sure how many other women he had on the go at the time but I was told when the subject came up that on friday last he'd 'given her the bullet'.

This guy treats women like trash and they still flock to him... wtf?

Now I've been told that I'm a nice guy (if I had a penny for every time...), a bit on the shy side, but I still go out every now and then - usually with mates - but I'll have a chat to some peeps every now and then... no pressure, no sleazy pickup lines, etc

Consequently I have more female friends than male friends and I haven't so much as kissed a girl since april. Sure it is a lonely way to live but that's just the way I am and always have been...

Ok that's my rant done, even if it doesn't make that much sense...

angelofdeath

so true and so ****ed up, your a nice guy they treat ya like ****, and then throw themselves at some arrogant jerkoff, its always the same:(

wes

Always looked at it this way. Arrogant jerks tend to also be a lot more confident. So they will throw themselves at more Women and consequently will get more.

Anyway that just a simple way of looking at things. Sure if you try it on with more women bound to get a few more then if your very selective about it.

Cake Fiend

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml

Read through all of these articles and make sure you don't fit the picture.
It'll give you a better insight into why women go for assholes at any rate.

lunacyfoundme

Yeah Green Day wrote a song about it. It was good. The experience isnt. I think if youre to look at it logically and break it down youll find its not entirely true though.

Id consider myself a nice guy, well i always finish last anyway. And I know what your mate is like every nice has one. I know I do. Theyre what I would consider our arch nemesis. They stand for all that we hate and find low in character.

But the reason we finish last is not because we're nice. Its because most of us dont have the balls to go up and talk to women in a pub or disco. Because we think were too nice to do that. Crap. You have to learn thats its all about averages. If you get knocked back by 19 out of 20 women in one night you still got 1. Thats all you need.

I have a friend who doesnt care about rejection. He just keeps going and going and more often than not he gets something. Its not really about being nice or being a jerk. Its about taking the risk of being rejected or hurt.

Nice guys finish last... Here's another saying for ya mate that might help ya out a bit. Who dares wins.

stormkeeper

Originally posted by angelofdeath
so true and so ****ed up, your a nice guy they treat ya like ****, and then throw themselves at some arrogant jerkoff, its always the same:(

I noticed such too...

stormkeeper

Originally posted by lunacyfoundme
But the reason we finish last is not because we're nice. Its because most of us dont have the balls to go up and talk to women in a pub or disco. Because we think were too nice to do that. Crap. You have to learn thats its all about averages. If you get knocked back by 19 out of 20 women in one night you still got 1. Thats all you need.

I have a friend who doesnt care about rejection. He just keeps going and going and more often than not he gets something. Its not really about being nice or being a jerk. Its about taking the risk of being rejected or hurt.

I'd say that would be my problem too, that and the fact that I've never met a girl in my life (it's boardering on a problem, I know), I'm just too nervous to ask, in case they say no, but then at the same time, I'd wonder how I would react if they said yes... Would I be scared, or would I just go ahead with it? I just don't know, all because I'm just too nervous to go up and ask.

That "Who dares wins" motto is quite good though...

Peace

I'm used to finishing last, but its not because i'm a nice guy.

lunacyfoundme

I'm just too nervous to ask, in case they say no, but then at the same time, I'd wonder how I would react if they said yes... Would I be scared, or would I just go ahead with it?

Would you rather stand there the whole night and not ask. It could turn out to be a very serious problem the longer it goes on. Just think about it this way. If you go up to a girl and she tells you to **** off whats she gonna do. Go out the next day and put up posters sayin that she didnt want tot talk to you.

The only person thats gonna care is you and if you dont make a big deal of it then all the better. One night I went out and got twisted on my favourite poison Zambucca. Shifted two girls and got three numbers. Went out next week had two girls tell me to **** off. The next week five lads kicked the **** out of me. The point is whatever you think is going to happen 'Oh shell say no' or blah blah. You can never ever know exactly whats going to happen.

First time a girl ever bothered to talk to me was after a Radiohead head concert. She was lovely, I was looking at her the whole way up on the bus. Afterwards she came over asked me for a drink and started talking to me. What did i do. I froze. Didnt say a word and I kind of shrunk away. She probably thought I was a spa for NOT talking to her.

As for what would you do if she did talk to ya. Talk back. Crazy I know. But if she talks to ya then she WANTS to talk to ya. Hard work is done. Just remember women are people too. So dont go over thinking about whether shell ride ya just go over and talk and whatever will be will be.

The more ya do it the relaxed youll be and the less crap youll give if someone doesnt want tot talk to ya. And trust me being told to **** off is nothing. After a few minutes youll be laughing it off because you made a big deal out of nothing.

xx

Originally posted by Virus_Inc
I'm sure you've all heard the saying "Nice guys always finish last"

Here's my two cents on the matter....

A bloke I lived with heads out most weekends, both home and away, and chases women - usually with some success.

I have nothing against him in this respect but it's his attitude towards them that really gets me... I asked him once if he had any female friends, his reply was "What's the point?"

Was partaking in a conversation with him earlier and the conversation got to a canadian girl that he'd gone out with several times and even brought round to our flat once. I'm not sure how many other women he had on the go at the time but I was told when the subject came up that on friday last he'd 'given her the bullet'.

This guy treats women like trash and they still flock to him... wtf?

Now I've been told that I'm a nice guy (if I had a penny for every time...), a bit on the shy side, but I still go out every now and then - usually with mates - but I'll have a chat to some peeps every now and then... no pressure, no sleazy pickup lines, etc

Consequently I have more female friends than male friends and I haven't so much as kissed a girl since april. Sure it is a lonely way to live but that's just the way I am and always have been...

Ok that's my rant done, even if it doesn't make that much sense...

This is what I now like to call 'Male Evolution', my friend. For many years, many men wondered why they weren't getting anywhere with women by being nice. So they stopped being nice and then, as the metaphor goes, their ship came in. But thats cutting a very long story short, but you get the gist.
So my advice to you bud is to evolve. You don't have to be rotten to the core, a good pretence of being a git will work just fine

misswex

Nice guys always win in the end though

vibe666

the problem isn't the nice guys, it's the self (relationship wise) destructive nature of a lot of women that's the problem.

I'm a nice guy (even if I do say so myself) I spent most of my life finishing last (or a very close second:rolleyes:) and figured it was just my lot in life to get stamped on, but 2 years ago, I met 'the one'. someone who isn't just my girlfriend, but my best friend as well.

We couldn't get on better if we tried. I think in the 2 odd years we've been together we've had 3 rows (all my fault for being stubborn anyway) and the times we've ended up chatting halfway through the night outway these a 100 to 1.

My advise is, you are the evolved one waiting for most of woman kind to catch up, not the other way round. I'm guessing you're in your early 20's anyway (am I right?) because as you pass 25 towards 30 the women seem to have evolved a little bit and tend to know more what is important in a relaitonship (they are using after settling down by then anyway).

My final word of advise is to keep your chin up, don't worry about not getting any for now (I went over a year without a sniff at one point and trust me it's good for the soul, even if not for the eyesight) and just stick to your guns and someone will come along before long.

angelofdeath

its not that were afraid to go up and talk to women, i chat to plenty of women, and sure it usually gos somewhere, but if you treat them right they just take you for granted, i know guys who treat women like dirt and they keep comin back for more, its not a matter of self confidence, i could never figure out what it is bout these guys women like:(

Imposter

If these girls you speak of are so into these over confident jerks you speak of why are you so worried? Chances are you would not want to go out with such a girl as soon as you get to know her.

Also with regards the shyness. I have been the same up until recently but I've realised a few things lately:
If you like a girl go talk to her. If you don't know her from adam (or eve) and she rejects you it matters not, you'll probably never see her again and even if you do, so what. If you do know her things might be a bit awkward but at least you know where you stand with her. And the most important thing i've realised is that women are people too and there's no point in putting on an act, pretending you're someone else or getting nervous because she won't see you as the person you are.

Similarly once you get talking to her, she might turn out to be a right bitch (and far from the woman of your dreams) and you'll be the one to decide that there's no way I could go out with such a person. That's good too as now at least you know rather than always thinking 'what if' to yourself.

MojoMaker

Psychologically you are all missing the point, kinda explains why none of you would be considered particularly successful...

Women of that age want a sexually aggressive alpha male to mate with. Sounds crude, but that is the genetic driving force behind their selection of a partner. They want a virile, confident partner who will make others envious and be in a position to defend their terrritory when required.

Since in modern society we cannot go around defending our territory with our fists (well not unless you are a knacker) it falls to other signs of dominance and "usefulness" to take it's place - i.e. the supremely confident male.

Women go for the confidence of a bad boy because it is a surrogate for the bare chested alpha male hunter/gatherer that brought home the food to eat round the fire. Genetically this will be written into humans until the end of our race, although the exact manifestations of these traits may change subtely over time as society evolves (or devolves?).

Confident bucks pull chicks.
Good looking and confident bucks pull lots of chicks.
Ugly but confident bucks pull some chicks.
Good looking bucks with no confidence pull less chicks.
Ugly bucks with no confidence never pull any chicks.

It's a natural order.

Bard

Nice guys may indeed finish last...


... but we finish better off.



... honest

vibe666

don't forget the hare and the tortoise.

Nevyn

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/spineless.shtml

wonderful

angelofdeath

brilliant piece of writing, very apt

Sangre

It's all about confidence, I don't see why this topic keeps coming up.

You can be nice and confident.

Although telling someone to be confident is hardly helpful, but thats what you're going to have to do you spineless pússy.

Typedef

I think this stuff is pretty simple.

TV conditions men to be sympathetic and all that nonesense.

Don't pay the slightest attention to TV, be the most malovalent bastard you can be, and you're bound to succeed.

The_Goose

nice guys never win in the end, and i heard someone shot the tortoise!!!!!!!!

nice guys will:

1 End up alone, in a smelly old house and probably die in a pool of there own piss!

2 Get a girl but she ll end up ****in off with some scum bag, cause her life isnt exciting enough!

3 (the good one) pull there fingers out, wake up and realise no one cares wheather your nice as long as they get wat they want!
Get mean get tough get mean!!! If you want something take it dont ask, if some one has a problem with confront them and they ll back down! all that matters is your happy, fact!!!

Typedef

I'm selling a self-help book on being a bastard and getting rich.

Ever buy a cd and listen to it a bit but not really care for it? then lend it to a friend, and realise how much you want it? Well thats what it's like with this guy you talk of. The women know that no matter how much he says that he really likes them or whatever, they can never have him. Thus making him irresistable.


I hate the term confident "jerk". Why are these people jerks? Cause they get more women than you? Think about it - Women NEED to have a man, but do men need to have women? Not really. How many girls do you know that just hop from bf to bf, even if they don't like the guy? They'd rather be with someone they don't like that be alone. Compare that with how many guys you know who just play the field and are heppy when they're on their own...


I also hate the term "nice guys finish last", because its a loser term. "I'm so nice why can't i get any women" waaah...keep on crying - your sure to get a woman that way! I'm a nice enough guy and I have my fair share of women. I know a lot of "nice guys" who also have a good level of success with women.
The term you're looking for is "whiny ásshole". "I can't get any women cause I'm a whiny asshole" is more like it.


The first thing you're going to have to do is be happy with yourself. Ever really want something for so long, you were almost totally dedicated to it. Then you got it and after a while realised you're still the same. If you think that getting a woman will suddenly make you really happy etc, then you're wrong.

The second thing you have to do is change your outlook towards women. Are you looking for a girlfriend...a wife?!...or just a girl to shag? You definitely shouldn't be looking for a wife, and imho looking for a girlfriend is also the wrong way to go about things. Why would you want a gf? So you can have somebody to tell all of your problems too? Whatever...Having a girlfriend is just preventing you from getting to know all the other fine women out there.
If you wanna go talk to a girl in a nightclub or a bar or even on the street etc then just do it. Use the three second rule - you have to make your move in under 3 seconds, because if you leave it longer you'll just end up talking yourself out of it. Whats the worst thing that could happen? The only people that will ever know about it are you and her - and chances are that you'll never see her again anyway. But then again there's also a decent chance that you could at least earn yourself at least a kiss for your efforts. btw - NEVER buy a girl a drink if you're talking to her at a bar.
Think about it - every girl you pass up on talking to etc could be a really hot h0 who will like you. Then again she could have a bf, or just not be interested - but who cares? In the end it's you whos missed out on the opportunity + you've denied this girl a chance to meet you! Keep convos short and sweet. Score her / get her number - whatever.

Ever see 'swingers'? Think about their attitude...Society basically has an unwritten rule that men will have to make the move, so dont be sitting back waiting for "love". Oh and btw, love doesn't exist. It's just a cleaner version of lust. From swingers:

Trent: You know what you are? You're like a big bear with claws and with fangs...
Sue: ...big ****ing teeth, man.
Trent: Yeah... big ****in' teeth on ya'. And she's just like this little bunny, who's just kinda cowering in the corner.
Sue: Shivering.
Trent: Yeah, man just kinda... you know, you got these claws and you're staring at these claws and your thinking to yourself, and with these claws you're thinking, "How am I supposed to kill this bunny, how am I supposed to kill this bunny?"
Sue: And you're poking at it, you're poking at it...
Trent: Yeah, you're not hurting it. You're just kinda gently batting the bunny around, you know what I mean? And the bunny's scared Mike, the bunny's scared of you, shivering.
Sue: And you got these ****ing claws and these fangs...
Trent: And you got these ****ing claws and these fangs, man! And you're looking at your claws and you're looking at your fangs. And you're thinking to yourself, you don't know what to do, man. "I don't know how to kill the bunny." With *this* you don't know how to kill the bunny, do you know what I mean?
Sue: You're like a big bear, man.
Mike: So you're not just like ****ing with me?
Trent: No I'm not ****ing with you.
Sue: Honestly, man.


btw sue is a guy and the "whiny asshole" is 'mike'. Mikes just passed up an opportunity to talk to some hot h0 because he chickened out. He was afraid of her basically.



You mightn't agree with what I'm saying, but at our age the majority of women are out looking for fun, not some "whiny asshole". You're husband material - i.e a guy she can just walk all over. Only problem is, you're too young to be married. So go out and have fun. Be happy etc, no respectable girl wants to be around some manic depressive.


Sorry for the length of this...but I could keep writing forever on this subject. Just remember - women take big long diarrhea ****s too

Walls

I think its being done - The Complete A**hole's Guide to Handling Chicks by Karl Mark. Amazon sell it for, I think, $12.00 or so.

IgnatiusJRiley

Originally posted by utility_

I also hate the term "nice guys finish last", because its a loser term. "I'm so nice why can't i get any women" waaah...keep on crying - your sure to get a woman that way! I'm a nice enough guy and I have my fair share of women. I know a lot of "nice guys" who also have a good level of success with women.
The term you're looking for is "whiny ásshole". "I can't get any women cause I'm a whiny asshole" is more like it.

Couldn't agree more

The Corinthian

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=887224#post887224

Originally posted by misswex
Nice guys always win in the end though

No, not really. The moral of the story is best left in the land of make believe, in the real world the guy in the white hat doesn't always win out. Actually, you should rent out Woody Allen's Crimes and Misdemeanors at some stage.

Evil Phil

Just be yourself and be happy with who you are. Do that and everything else will take care of itself.

Virus_Inc

Good god, what a can of worms! Almost enough to make you want to be a monk... :P

I think the title was probably the wrong one - it was more a rant at my flatmate & how shallow he is than anything else... though a cooler head prevails today

Lots of advice/opinions from all quarters and I'm sure nobody agrees with all of it but that's the whole reason for a public debate. Nothing like a good discussion to get the blood boiling!

Cake Fiend

Originally posted by misswex
Nice guys always win in the end though

That's the worst advice in this entire thread.

I don't mean to be negative, I'm sure you mean well, but I don't think that's what this guy needs to hear because

a) it's BS
b) even if it isn't, it's no good to him at this point
c) the last thing he needs at the moment is someone convincing him that continuing to wallow in this sort of self-pity is the right thing to do.

Typedef

Originally posted by Virus_Inc
Consequently I have more female friends than male friends and I haven't so much as kissed a girl since april. Sure it is a lonely way to live but that's just the way I am and always have been...

Rar! A pool of female 'friends'.

I recommend immediate philanderous activity post haste, in order to achieve coitus with the best looking female from your 'friend' pool as you can.

Yes, start with "I feel so hurt"... then move on to "hold me"... then "I get so lonely at night..... I can sleep with you... as friends"...

And so on.

Sarky

Nice guys finish last.

This is because we have more stamina.

Zombrex

Put it this way ... if you think you are a nice guy but that nice guys always finish last, then you think that it is all a game, therefore you just see women as prizes to win, which makes you shallow and manipulative, then you aren't really that nice a guy anyway so be happy!!!

I second who ever said "why does this thread keep coming up?" ... stop trying to win a prize start tryin to have adult relationships, and stop using "niceness" or "nastyness" as a dating tactic

logic

Story goes like this, if we're not there already (i.e. confident jerks) then the story goes like this

-Nice Guy
-Nice Guy gets confidence
-Nice Guy with confidence gets loads of chicks
-Nice Guy now has too many chicks
-Nice Guy now has to tell most, if not all of them to fsck off
-Now Nice Confident Guy becomes Confident Jerk

Why, cos his mate seen him tell all these nice girls to fsck off.

Caesar_Bojangle

Perhaps the confident jerks are a tad better looking than the nice guys? Btw there are plenty of nice girls out there too

tman

Originally posted by Caesar_Bojangle
Btw there are plenty of nice girls out there too

yeah, nice personalities:rolleyes:

It's pathetic the amount of people in this thread who are content to just complain that only "jerks" get women, rather than actually doing anything about it....

Zombrex

Originally posted by utility_
It's pathetic the amount of people in this thread who are content to just complain that only "jerks" get women, rather than actually doing anything about it....

You are right ... time to kill me some "jerks" ..

goggles, check,
chainsaw, check
hockey mask, check

"lets hunt some ork!!"

Caesar_Bojangle

Originally posted by tman
yeah, nice personalities:rolleyes:

There’s a girl (absolutely amazing looks) that all my friends thought was a stuck up cow because she ignored them whenever they walked by her and said hello. Then one day I actually had the opportunity to sit down and talk to her. Basically, she wasn't in fact stuck up but incredibly shy. After breaking the ice she opened up and was rather talkative towards me and even invited me to her friends party. She is probably the nicest person I know and utterly stunning.

IrishMike

Originally posted by Caesar_Bojangle
There’s a girl (absolutely amazing looks) that all my friends thought was a stuck up cow because she ignored them whenever they walked by her and said hello. Then one day I actually had the opportunity to sit down and talk to her. Basically, she wasn't in fact stuck up but incredibly shy. After breaking the ice she opened up and was rather talkative towards me and even invited me to her friends party. She is probably the nicest person I know and utterly stunning.

Imaginery friends dont count, sorry

Sangre

Yeah sure Caesar...

Was she happened to be called 'Palmeron Diaz' or 'Uma Thumbman'?

You sicken me.

kaimera

hehehe..poor Caesar

Bottle_of_Smoke

Nice guys finishing last is wrong, if you're genuinely a nice guy you'll do fine.

Most nice guys are fakes tho, and this shows, hence they never get anywhere.

Be yourself, only way things will work out.

Being nice also might make you look soft and needy, so women will be afraid of feeling bad about hurting you, I myself am guilty of this, I never go near "nice girls"

phoenix2181

Fup the lot off them, women will just bleed you dry & break your heart.... then go on to the next guy. :ninja:

Caesar_Bojangle

I never said that I got anything out of her. But my point was that even good looking women can be rather timid.

vibe666

there's a big difference between being a sad pathetic loser and being a 'nice guy'. lots of people who think they are nice are just mistaking the fact they are sad lonely tw@ts for being nice (don't know how).

If you're 20 and haven't had more than 2 girlfriends you're probably just sad (unless one of them was for a couple of years, in quich case you are really sad).

if you've been out with quite a few girls and you are still friends with most of them then you are probably a nice guy, who's just going through a dry spell.

it'll pass.

as for the sad tw@ts, get back to your pr0n and be grateful that the internet has brought you as close as that to as many girls as you can manage to find with one hand.;)

Sarky

That hurt.

It really did.

To be slightly more accurate, however, it didn't.

Amz

Originally posted by Bottle_of_Smoke
Most nice guys are fakes tho, and this shows, hence they never get anywhere.

So very true...

logic

Originally posted by Caesar_Bojangle
I never said that I got anything out of her. But my point was that even good looking women can be rather timid.

I hope you tried.....

misswex

Originally posted by Sico
That's the worst advice in this entire thread.

I don't mean to be negative, I'm sure you mean well, but I don't think that's what this guy needs to hear because

a) it's BS
b) even if it isn't, it's no good to him at this point
c) the last thing he needs at the moment is someone convincing him that continuing to wallow in this sort of self-pity is the right thing to do.

My most profuse apologies!!!

But I didn't think I was convincing him to wallow in self-pity!!

I was probably being a little bit blassé about the whole thing but what I meant was that he will in the end (if his genuinely nice) find what he is looking for - whatever that may be!! Just has to get over the shyness thing, he obviously can talk to girls cos he has more female friends than male!!!

Anyway, good luck!!

Go me for the worst advice and reply :rolleyes:

stormkeeper

Originally posted by vibe666
there's a big difference between being a sad pathetic loser and being a 'nice guy'. lots of people who think they are nice are just mistaking the fact they are sad lonely tw@ts for being nice (don't know how).

If you're 20 and haven't had more than 2 girlfriends you're probably just sad (unless one of them was for a couple of years, in quich case you are really sad).

if you've been out with quite a few girls and you are still friends with most of them then you are probably a nice guy, who's just going through a dry spell.

it'll pass.

as for the sad tw@ts, get back to your pr0n and be grateful that the internet has brought you as close as that to as many girls as you can manage to find with one hand.;)

That's quite hurtful to people, actually. What about all those guys who can't get a girl because of self-confidence issues? Just because you've had more than 3 girlfriends doesn't mean you're the greatest thing since sliced bread...