Fingal Future Rail Transport

sligoliner

http://www.platform11.org/fingal_2003.html

Passing loops and land issues

Winters

A very good document. Was that you Sligoliner? I think you were at the Bankers meeting in the summer talking about this were you not?

As a fingal resident i think the DART extension plans are desperately needed for the towns and populated areas north of Malahide. They would take some pressure off the newly built M1 and the existing parts of the N1.

Just one note about the Airport link, a study was done by a specialist Environmental Consultant, can't remember the name right now but it'll come back to me. Ill try and find a copy of it. Anyway it came to the conclusion that the airport link is more feasible coming in from the Maynooth line, branching off just before the M50 and travelling up past the Dunsink Tiphead to the porposed modal interchange at the N2/M50 intersection and then on into the airport to connect both the existing terminal 1 and the planned T2 on the west of the site.

One of the reasons given was that the land between the northern suburban line and the airport was too congested and under planning.

Im not too sure, as you travel to Howth Junction from Portmarnock you can make out a large linear expanse of land cross under the line. This is the North Fringe Sewer line which goes from Sutton all the way to Blanchardstown, RIGHT PAST THE AIRPORT


If anyone had any sense of forward thinking perhaps....

Another reason cited Sligoliner, is the larger numbers of traffic on the Northern line.

A heavy rail link is badly needed for the airport, city and country seeing as the airport is essentially the National Airport. From whichever direction it come from it is badly needed.

Cheers

Sarsfield

A spur from the Northern Line is only asking for trouble. Any excess capacity on that line can be more than used up by existing services.

A new Line from the airport joining the Maynooth line at Clonsilla, provides a rail service to new parts of the city and also routes traffic along a currently less used route.

Maybe this line could be extended through the airport to connect with the northern line, and on to Belfast, but the main route to central Dublin should be via the Maynooth Line. This would also give options regarding the routing of northern suburban trains into the city.

Perhaps even the Enterprise could run to Connolly via the airport.

And to stick to the thread topic, this would vastly increase the rail catchment area in Fingal.

sligoliner

A spur from the Northern Line is only asking for trouble. Any excess capacity on that line can be more than used up by existing services.

It's not as bad as it first seems. Just kill the Howth direct DART service and make the service a shuttle back and forth to the junction. This is how the Great Northern did it and it makes sense. The idea of a busy mainline being taken up by some desire to "baby" the affluent villagers of Howth is a CIE-ism ansd against standard internetional rail best practice. That could fee up capacity.

I have been told that the Metro is to be scrapped this week and Irish Rail are going to be told to build a DART line to the Airport from Howth Jct.

However, I still think that the spur off the Clonsilla line makes the more sense as it allows a continious high-freq service.

Anyway, it is great to see that Government has dicovered what Platform11 has been trying to explain - that Dublin already has an excelent Metro called the DART - just keep extending it.

Victor

Parallel thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=1166545#post1166545

Winters

I know this is off the thread but i must reply.

NO WAY could a shuttle DART between Howth and Howth Junct. Work.

First of all it is currently busier than the Malahide extension* as regards to passenger numbers.

The trains are full to standing by the time the carriages reach Killbarrack and sometimes Howth Junct. during peak hours in the mornings.

Remember there are three estabished stations between Howth Junct. and Howth Station. All three have much higher DART use than both Malahide and Portmarnock.

Bayside, Sutton and Howth -each have large catchment areas including Baldoyle and Portmarnock. A large number of Portmarnock residents actually use the Howth Line rather than the Malahide line becuase of accessability. The 102 feeder bus goes from Malahide through the large Portmarnock housing estates (does not stop at Portmarnock Train Station because it is out of the way) and then it carries on to Sutton through parts of Baldoyle.

I brought this up at the Bankers meeting and i though the matter was closed.

Perhaps during off peak it might be beneficial when the Northern line is extended further to Skerries/Balbriggan but then the topic of Station safety comes up. Howth Junction is possibly the most open and unsafe station on the line along with Killbarrack.





*Portmarnock and Malahide Stations taken into account only.

Victor

Originally posted by Winters
Perhaps during off peak it might be beneficial when the Northern line is extended further to Skerries/Balbriggan but then the topic of Station safety comes up. Howth Junction is possibly the most open and unsafe station on the line along with Killbarrack.

Howth Junction is being completely rebuilt under DASH (I have drawings). Dublin City Council put in a "closure of right of way" notice in last Thursday's papers to stop random scumbags wandering through the station (the right of way and passengers share the same bridge).

Regarding the 102 & 230 (airport - Portmarnock), there are suggestions to have them serve Portmarnock station. A lot more Swords people are also using the DART now. The Northern Suburban overall carries (and will carry) more trains and people than the Howth Branch. Note the addition of one or 2 stations at Grange Road / North Fringe.

The suggestion for the airport DART route, other thread, **must** have a cross over bridge, not points like the Howth branch.

Winters

Victor,

What i meant was that currently the Howth Branch Stations of Bayside, Sutton and Howth expierence larger DART passenger numbers than Portmarnock and Malahide. These figures are available from Tom Lehane, Station Master, Howth Station.

I agree though that that statistic is bound to change especially with the influx of Fringe and Swords passengers.

Will the right of way be reinstated in Howth Junction Station after redevelopment? Is there a pedestrian underpass planned there?

Could you explain - "The suggestion for the airport DART route, other thread, **must** have a cross over bridge, not points like the Howth branch."

Cheers

Victor

Originally posted by Winters
Will the right of way be reinstated in Howth Junction Station after redevelopment? Is there a pedestrian underpass planned there?

That was the intention.

Originally posted by Winters
Could you explain - "The suggestion for the airport DART route, other thread, **must** have a cross over bridge, not points like the Howth branch."

The problem with the Howth Branch (or any branch) is trains crossing the mainline, with a corresponding time delay and reduction in capacity.

Victor

Posting map / diagram on other thread.

shoegirl

Can anybody please tell me why in Ireland ALL of our main suburban rail lines consist at most of two "each way" lines?

It seems that until the capacity problem caused by this is sorted it will be impossible to combine frequent suburban lines with long distance trasins without hurting one or other service.

I travel frequently in Britain and notice that even many rural services consist of two sets of lines. Its particularly interesting on the Bakerloo line near Wembley in north London to see one tube overtaking another on the second set of lines!

Is this to match our "miniature" motorways?

Victor

Originally posted by shoegirl
Can anybody please tell me why in Ireland ALL of our main suburban rail lines consist at most of two "each way" lines?

It's for historical reasons. The demand simply wasn't there. England (only) has about the same area as Ireland, but 11 times the population.