Country names

sanvean

can anyone tell me the reasons for why in translation certain names of countries seem completely at odds with how they're written in their native tongue? I can get Austria, which seems somewhat phonetical to Ostereich, but Suomi for Finland? and Magyar for Hungary? and Greece seems to be written Ellenika. So, my question is how do we get the english translation for countries? any help would be much appreciated.

Blitzkrieger

It's probably more to do with what the country is known for (or known as) in England, than an actual translation of the native name.

For instance; Hungary was settled mainly by the Magyar tribe(s), but early Engish historians knew it only as the place where 'Hun' invasions came from.

I'm of the Terry Pratchet school of geography myself. Most explorers named rivers and rivers either after themselves, or by grabing the nearest native, pointing, and writing down what they say. I bet most of them translate as : "What?" and "Just a mountain".

Capt'n Midnight

Look at GERMANY

German = Deutschland
Italian = Germania (note: Tedesco = German)
French = Allamange

We English speakers are the worst for this name-dropping
When Italians call Dublin Dublino you can see what it going on.
But

Cologne - Klon
Oporto - Porto
Munich - Munchen
Vienna - Wien
Finland - Suomi

Kells - Ceannas

RE: "What?" and "Just a mountain"
cf. Idaho / Kangeroo are both supposed to mean "I don't know"

sceptre

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
RE: "What?" and "Just a mountain"
cf. Idaho / Kangeroo are both supposed to mean "I don't know"

"Idaho" in fact supposedly has no meaning at all. It just sounded to congressmen like a good Indian word and was suggested as a name for quite a few states before the name was used as the name for the territory in 1863 and for the new state in 1890. See Bill Bryson's Made In America p125 &p135-6

Talliesin

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger
I'm of the Terry Pratchet school of geography myself. Most explorers named rivers and rivers either after themselves, or by grabing the nearest native, pointing, and writing down what they say. I bet most of them translate as : "What?" and "Just a mountain".

Rivers tend to "keep" names quite well, probably due to their "belonging" to several communities that they past through, as opposed to just one as a town, hill, beach etc. would be. Notably most English Rivers still have Celtic names.

There are indeed plenty of hill's whose name translates as "hill". An amusing example is Breedon Hill. Bree means "hill" and Don means "hill" or "hillfort". Successive naming first used Bree as the name of the Don, and then took Breedon as the name of the Hill, so the name has "hill" in it in 3 different languages.

Brian Friel's Translations is a must-read for anyone interested in this (must-see if you can get to a decent production) as it deals with the practice of naming areas and how it relates to colonialism.

simu

Look at GERMANY German = Deutschland Italian = Germania (note: Tedesco = German) French = Allamange

I remember reading about this in one of my German-learning books. Basically, neighbouring countries called the Germans by the name of the particular Germanic tribe they first had contact with. Also, originally, the word Deutsch just meant something like ouselves, if I remember correctly.


On a somewhat related note, there is a whole bunch of names for Ireland besides Éire in Irish poetry - Fódhla and Banba are two that spring to mind.