Eircom moron on TodayFM now 11AM Sun 02 Nov

Peace

He came across as a bit inept at the start, certainly didn't convince me that he knew what dsl is.. However he did fine on the rest of the interview and side stepped a lot of tough questions for eircom. Also managed to create the concept that eircom were fighting the good fight and need the irish people to band together behind them and purchase their dsl product. He was very much throwing out the idea of us against them and were here for you guys....we're on your side.

I know its all crap and the stuff he was saying about eircom being one of the cheapest broadband suppliers in europe just can't be anywhere near true. Sometime somewhere there will be an interview where and eircom rep is asked some difficult questions and it should be in a forum where they can't squirm away with dishonest and misleading answers.....what a day that would be.

shinzon

Just listened to this interview, i had to psych myself up first due to the fact i might have thrown a bit of a wobbly when i heard this but anyhoo

Well Eircom certainly know how to spin a Yarn ill give them that, ive never heard so many blatant out and out lies about broadband in my entire life, this interview gives completely the wrong impression about BB in ireland

1) Always on Access - Sure you can leave your machine on all day, True we got caps but we aint gonna tell ya about them til ye sign up for it

2) Tis like friaco really - friaco is 150 hours with the eircom yo yos and 180 for the rest, now that really got my goat up

3) The government are putting fibre rings around major towns and thats a complete duplication of the network, sheesh if Eircons network was upto scratch in the first place thered be no need for the fibre network at all. DEAR GOD

i wont even touch on the pricing as thats been done to death, how much longer do the irish people have to put up with the blatant lies of Eircom

Shin

spongebob

Originally posted by De Rebel
Probably the most stupid decision ever made by an Irish Government (acting on our behalf).And that’s saying something. And WE didn't put in place any of the necessary safeguards to ensure that the privatised monopoly would do anything other than use its every asset to maximise value for its new shareholders. We handed them a cash cow with no effective controls whatsoever.

I thought that the "cash cow with no effective controls" was a swipe at a certain Regulatory Body , lucky I read the whole post again from start to finish , phew !

I hope nobody compares me to a bovine when I apply for my commissionership , ye've been warned

M

Ripwave

Originally posted by SkepticOne
Note that he cleverly qualified a lot of his statements. For example the 45 euros was repeated a couple of times just to get it to sink in, then he qualified this with with the 'pre VAT'.

Given that he was explicitly talking about a residential product at that point, that counts as an outright lie in my book, not just a clever misdirection.

"On that point, what would it cost, let's say someone listening out there, seperate to the cost to businesses, because it's obviously of use to them as well, somebody sitting at home, they're thinking about getting this, how much is it going to cost them?"
waffle about DSL, avoiding the question, how DSL allows you to deliver broadband over existing wires and how eircom are "very keen on that." (No ****, sherlock!))
...
"What would it cost?"
"Well, it would cost you about €45 a month, now we have a promotion at the moment that says you can get it at €35 a month, that's pre VAT, so you're talking about, roughly about €45 a month".

McRedmond then goes on to talk about the fact that people are getting broadband because their children expect it.

(Note that there isn't any mention of a €35/month service on eircoms residential website).

jbkenn

This might sound a bit ridiculous, but, what if IOFFL prepared as set of pertinent Q&A's for distribution to the various media as a rebuttal to the continual waffle from Eircom. for instance

Rollout - 10 zillion lines enabled ? well where are they

Line Failure - ? well their your lines why dont you fix them

2nd cheapest in Europe - ? relative to what

etc.


jbkenn

Urban Weigl

Originally posted by jbkenn
2nd cheapest in Europe - ? relative to what

Perhaps he meant second most expensive in Europe (next to Greece possibly)?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Ripwave
"On that point, what would it cost, let's say someone listening out there, seperate to the cost to businesses, because it's obviously of use to them as well, somebody sitting at home, they're thinking about getting this, how much is it going to cost them?"
waffle about DSL, avoiding the question, how DSL allows you to deliver broadband over existing wires and how eircom are "very keen on that." (No ****, sherlock!))
...
"What would it cost?"
"Well, it would cost you about €45 a month, now we have a promotion at the moment that says you can get it at €35 a month, that's pre VAT, so you're talking about, roughly about €45 a month".

The above could certainly be construed as lies and I would not argue with someone saying that. What I wanted to stress was the fact that Eircom conciously qualify their statements. So, for example, 45 euros is highly misleading, but 45 euros Ex VAT is technically correct.

Therefore, if people want to respond to what McRedmond is saying, they need to look very closely at what is being said (as you have done) pointing out exactly how they have been lying. Otherwise, Eircom will prepare a written statement refuting the the accusation that they are liars. Moreover, they will come out the winners in the overall exchange.

Personally, I would use the phrase 'highly misleading' (giving reasons) as Eircom have less of a comeback with this.

This is the main problem (no offence to the original poster) with 'Eircom moron...' title of the thread. Eircom's ability to twist words should never be underestimated. We should have been getting down to the specifics straight away.

De Rebel

Originally posted by Muck
I thought that the "cash cow with no effective controls" was a swipe at a certain Regulatory Body , lucky I read the whole post again from start to finish , phew !

Ha Ha. It was "a swipe at a certain Regulatory Body". Well the "no effective controls" bit was anyway. I'm far too much of a gentleman to refer to any of the commissioners as a "cash cow" Well not before the sort out their pensions anyway.....

De Rebel

Originally posted by SkepticOne
We should have been getting down to the specifics straight away.

Mike, do you always have to be right about things!

I accept part of the responsibility for the distraction, but the (since removed) word in the first post got to me.

I also believe that in order to be credible, we must be professional. Thats was the thrust of my subsequent posts.

Anyway, Adam's suggestion of a "rapid reaction force" to tackle eircom's misleading statements and exageration is a very good one. Especially if as seems likely they are moving into marketing overdrive. I'm not sure how it would work, but there is among the committee the talent if not the availibility to run off a short snappy rebuff whenever eircom is given a platform. Its something we should seriously consider.

dahamsta

Rapid Reaction Force, I like it.

Seriously, I think it's a very important issue that does need to be tackled with some urgency. As you suggest, Eircom has flipped to xDSL now and there's no going back -- they have to sell it like sh1t off a stick if they're going to see a return on their investment. I support fair trade so I'm not going to get in their way of selling it as long it actually is fair trade. Unfortunately though, this isn't, it's misrepresentation that's very very close to outright lies.

Implementing an "RRF" can be done very simply and very efficiently because there is a defined set of untruths and misrepresentations: Write once, run anywhere. The only decision IrelandOffline has to make is whether or not to encourage direct action, and I think you know my feelings on that: Use the grassroots, that's what they're there for.

adam

Urban Weigl

Even saying "45 euros ex vat", if it is a consumer product, is misleading. How many people will instantly know that it is about 55 euros, and how many will just say "ah sure, so it's about 45 euros".

Consumer products should never be quoted ex VAT. On the other hand if it's a business DSL package, quoting ex VAT is fine.

eirebhoy

I can't believe that people are acually defending David McRedmond. I have heard him a few times being interviewed and he sounds like a complete idiot.

Originally posted by Winters
I took offence to the fact that the Eircom dude failed to mention one thing about the CAP. Also that the DSL offering in ireland is of poor quality, over capped and overly expensive when compared to the same option in europe. Its a pity the interviewer didnt mention the cap and how pityfully small it actucully is

If the interviewer had've mentioned the cap i'm sure he would have got an answer just like this:

"I couldn't answer that, I'd have to refer it to a technical expert. But certainly we haven't had any significant level of complaints about it. However, it's an issue we'd always be looking at."

I got this quote from this interview which makes him out to be a bigger moron and the interviewer was a lot better this time too.;)

SkepticOne

Originally posted by eireboy
"I couldn't answer that, I'd have to refer it to a technical expert. But certainly we haven't had any significant level of complaints about it. However, it's an issue we'd always be looking at."

Thing is, this would have been the correct answer in a radio interview. He would have successfully sidestepped the issue - maybe not in the most elegant way, but it would have worked. The interviewer would have been forced to move on to the next question and the vast bulk of the audience would not have known what either of them were on about anyway. Well done McRedmond. Sure you would have a few people calling him a moron here, but McRedmond would not be in the least bit bothered. Neither would Eircom. We here are not the target.

I got this quote from this interview which makes him out to be a bigger moron and the interviewer was a lot better this time too.;)

However, journos of the callibre of Adrian Weckler are rare and Weckler also took advantage of the print medium to insert further comments (from ed.).

If you think people were 'defending' McRedmond, you may be missing the point somewhere along the line.

Ripwave

Originally posted by eireboy
If the interviewer had've mentioned the cap i'm sure he would have got an answer just like this:
"I couldn't answer that, I'd have to refer it to a technical expert. But certainly we haven't had any significant level of complaints about it. However, it's an issue we'd always be looking at."

If Eircom are handling a 1,000 installs a week for broadband, I doubt that they're getting more than a dozen complaints about the cap.

It's a simple fact that 90% of users will never breach eircoms cap, and eircoms stance all along has been that they "reserve the right" to charge for going over the cap, and that has effectively meant it's a weapon to discourage excessive use - it hasn't been used as a revenue generation mechanism. If you persistently try to use 20 or 30G, eircom might "encourage" you to upgrade to one of their higher priced offerings.

De Rebel

Originally posted by eireboy
I can't believe that people are acually defending David McRedmond.

I'm not sure that anybody is defending him. Certainly not I. What I do advocate is that we attack the message, not the messenger. That’s how it works in the grown up world.

Originally posted by eireboy
I have heard him a few times being interviewed and he sounds like a complete idiot.

On the basis of the interview you referenced, he sounds like anything but an idiot. In fact he comes across as being very clever. But I guess that depends on your definition of idiot.


For about the fifth time in this thread, gratuitous name calling will get us nowhere. Reasoned logical response delivered clearly and professionally will.

Respond to the message, not the taunts of the messenger....

zynaps

Originally posted by jbkenn
This might sound a bit ridiculous, but, what if IOFFL prepared as set of pertinent Q&A's for distribution to the various media as a rebuttal to the continual waffle from Eircom. for instance

Rollout - 10 zillion lines enabled ? well where are they

Line Failure - ? well their your lines why dont you fix them

2nd cheapest in Europe - ? relative to what

etc.


jbkenn

I think this is exactly what we could do with.

Give that man a cigar, and why don't we get to work on this?
Some distilled information, stats, comparisons, and (importantly) a justification as to why we would be doing it - to give the media a tool with which to have a more balanced position to deal with such situations as this interview.

If the interviewer had had a quick read of something like this before going on air, I think it would have been a much more worthwhile interview.

How about it?

zynaps

dahamsta

One thing I meant to add last night: I think it would be a very bad idea for IrelandOffine to distribute something like this to the media on spec. Even if it doesn't say "Eircom Lie Sheet" on top it'll be blatantly obvious that it's targetting Eircom, and targetting Eircom will make IrelandOffline out as anti-free-trade. This would be extremely bad for the org, particularly now now they're all cosied up to pols and suits. Plus of course it won't make The News, since IrelandOffline is a nonentity to most major media outlets.

If it's done at all, it needs to be done as soon as possible after Eircom have talked to a particular media outlet, which paints IrelandOffline in a much more attractive light as Defenders of Truth and Protector of the User, etc. Plus of course there's an excellent chance of a follow-up story, because, well, there's a story to follow up.

adam

spongebob

1. Eircom charges the highest residential line rental in the EU at €22.50 a month.

2. Eircom has the highest entry level charge for DSL for residential users at €54.50 a month. No other incumbent charges as much for a 512/128 package which is the entry level EU norm.

3. The combination of charges is a Stunning €77 a month.

It is no surprise that Ireland is at the top of both EU charts.

Compare this to the incumbent in the UK which is BT (Vat Incl as always)

__________________________Ireland______________UK_______IE as % of UK
Analogue Line Rental.......€22.50.............€15.......[b]150%[/b]
Entry Level DSL............€54.50.............€36.......[b]150%[/b]

Remember that a BT phone line, costing 2 thirds of an Eircom phone line, will give you minimum 28.8k data speeds while an Eircom phone line is guaranteed at 0k .

If the UK line does not give you 28.8k then BT must do something about it and if they won't then you can approach the regulator (Oftel) who will investigate YOUR complaint and do something FOR YOU which is their job. Telling you , the consumer , that they can do nothing for you is NOT part of Oftels job because Oftel are a professional regulatory body.

In Ireland you have a regulator named Comreg who won't do anything (apart from lying to the Dáil <cough>:D) , ESPECIALLY if asked to do so by a consumer.

There is a pattern in there in the sense that the Pope is Catholic.

1. BT are a far more efficient operator.
2. Eircom are a more inefficient and vastly greedier operator.
3. Comreg is a useless regulator when compared to Oftel.
4. We are all f!ck*d , we may as well do what we did with the fertiliser plant, sell it off to Chile in a package and say.....you use it because we cant figure out how to.....

M

Eurorunner

If it's done at all, it needs to be done as soon as possible after Eircom have talked to a particular media outlet, which paints IrelandOffline in a much more attractive light as Defenders of Truth and Protector of the User, etc. Plus of course there's an excellent chance of a follow-up story, because, well, there's a story to follow up.

I agree totally with what Dahamsta suggests above. Two recent examples spring to mind:
Adrian Weckler/Sunday Biz Post;
A recent article in Irish Times;

In both cases, eircoms unchallenged pr machine got its rubbish printed - but due to the level of response mainly from boards.ie people, we got followup articles balancing out the spin.

I regret that i havnt responded to today fm's Sunday Biz Show yet but hopefully will do this evening - with a view to proposing that they should cover the other side of the story.

If we can all find a few minutes for this, they may very well take notice.

The only email address i have for today fm is this one: 100-102@todayfm.com

Dont know if theres a more specific one for the sunday bizz show..?

ColinM

Hey, you know what? Maybe this guy David is not a moron or whatever else I said he was. Underestimating someone's intelligence is an elementary and dangerous mistake to make. Bear in mind though that when I posted my first comment, I was listening to the beginning of the interview where he was "explaining" what broadband is. And at that point, it can be legitimately said that he sounded like a stumbling idiot.

I have a particular dislike for marketeers who choose to "explain" what something is when it suits them. They usually end up describing what it very nearly is, but distinctly isn't. Of course, when it doesn't suit them, the standard response is "Oh, you'll have to ask someone technical." I'll save my venom for marketing droids for another place and time, but if anyone wants to get into the same frame of mind, read a little more Dilbert.

Maybe I was venting a little, but Eircom is just one of a number of things that irk me to the core about this country. Things like stealth taxes, VRT, smoking bans, price of drink, price of houses, price of everything, huge number of scumbags and nothing done to tackle crime, embarrasingly poor road system and incredibly bad traffic problems, inadequate healthcare facilities et-fricking-cetera.

Basically, I'm sick of being ripped off at every turn. As Michael Stipe sings in the new REM song, Bad Day - We're sick of being jerked around", and I'm telling you, I am.

I've already left this country before due to me being sick of a combination of these and other symptoms of this country's chronic rottenness. I came back because - well - I'm not quite sure - call it Stockholm Syndrome perhaps, but I can see myself leaving again for good if this corrupt little rock off the coast of Europe doesn't get its act together. I imagine there's alot like me too. What's going to happen if all of us tax payers leave? Who's going to fund our growing senior citizen polulation's state pensions then? Will the skangers suddenly all get jobs in that eventuality?

Ok, sorry - I started off by sounding like I was working up to an apology and ended up going off on one. But I'm sure you can all sympathise with my frustration.

Eurorunner - thanks for taking the effort to write a letter to the station. Maybe there will be a follow up interview with IOFFL, but somehow I think Eircom will win out in the end - ie: most people who don't research their purchasing decisions will just go with Eircom. PS - I like the "Now if Carlsberg did telecom companies" sig! Hey - they'd probably send over international supermodels to massage your back while you surfed the net. Actually, screw the Internet, just gimme the supermodels.

dahamsta

IrelandOffline is obviously testing it's new Opposites Strategy[TM]. What you're seeing now is a demonstration of the opposite it will do when an Eircom droid appears on the telly. Swift, decisive actions and words. Go IrelandOffline!

adam /whips out his pom-poms

bk

Originally posted by Eurorunner

I regret that i havnt responded to today fm's Sunday Biz Show yet but hopefully will do this evening - with a view to proposing that they should cover the other side of the story.

If we can all find a few minutes for this, they may very well take notice.

Eurorunner, if you can hold off for awhile, we will see if we can come up with an organised campaign of re-education.

Eurorunner

Eurorunner, if you can hold off for awhile, we will see if we can come up with an organised campaign of re-education.

np BK

Might be a good idea to look into this cos this keeps happening ie. Eircon droid pops up in papers/radio/tv spinning away like a vulgar spider.

The impulse is to respond immediately in anger - maybe not taking the time out for a considered response - making sure that it covers all the points and gets the message accross without the bile and vitriole for €ircon coming thru...

zynaps

dahamsta
Moderator

Registered: Oct 2000
Posts: 6666 (5.91 per day)
Mod: South, Windows

whoa

bk

Everyone, I have posted a submission on how we might respond to such newspaper articles and radio shows in future on the thread called [IOFFL Committee] Call To Arms

This is the foundation for our rapid reaction force

The first thread that I propose we employ this is Eircom Rep on Newstalk 106

Here we can plan how we will respond to the two similiar radio interviews, the Newstalk one and the Today FM one.

dahamsta

Originally posted by zynaps
Posts: 6666 (5.91 per day)

One better than the devil. Heh.

Moriarty

Useless twaddle moved to the recycle bin. Tibor, ripwave - behave.

De Rebel

Originally posted by bk
Everyone, I have posted a submission on how we might respond to such newspaper articles and radio shows in future on the thread called [IOFFL Committee] Call To Arms.

And here is how I believe we should respond.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=1195267#post1195267

mike65

Just a note to say I checked my stats with the host of the mp3/lo-fi stream and the interview has been downloaded 117 times and streamed 39 times in the first 4 days but non today.

Mike.