Ireland -v- Canada [merged]

smemon

o'shea was the most solid defender on the park last nite, all his previous games have been poor, i dont argue that. he had a no-nonsense attitude and was never turned by his man. he didnt attack much and did a hell of alot better than kilbane and harte would put together.

if we were playing well ie- fluent, attacking, attractive football, i wouldnt be whinging. its the fact kerr has gone 12 games without a good performance that im not happy about. he has yet to impress me.

the swiss match was the biggest of his career and the worst irish performance in years, maybe ever. early signs are not good. he must get the team organised and have some sort of familiar look to it for the wc qualifiers. he also must understand winning isnt everything.

Big Ears

oshea was ****.

GuanYin

Originally posted by smemon
o'shea was the most solid defender on the park last nite, all his previous games have been poor, i dont argue that. he had a no-nonsense attitude and was never turned by his man. he didnt attack much and did a hell of alot better than kilbane and harte would put together.

Did you even watch the game? O'Shea was nowhere near solid never mind "the most solid".

Dunno and Cunningham were both miles better than him on the night, Dunne in particular outshone O'Shea.

The only reason he wasn't the worst defender on the pitch all night was because Carr had a stinker. And yes, that means he was shaded by Ian Harte!

smemon

Originally posted by Big Ears
oshea was ****.

what did he do wrong?? nobody got past him and any danger was just knocked out of play. isnt that what people want after having to put up with harte?

eirebhoy

Originally posted by smemon
what did he do wrong?? nobody got past him and any danger was just knocked out of play. isnt that what people want after having to put up with harte?

He constantly tried to do stupid things and held on to the ball too long. He would have loads of time on the ball and he would end up running into a player and then have to kick the ball out of play. The only good thing I actually saw him do all night was a long ball to Keane with the outside of his right foot which was spot on other than that he was poor. Don't you think getting a rating of 5 by most of the papers is a poor performance? And when you say any danger was knocked out of play, 9 out of 10 times he got himself in that danger. My brother is always looking for reasons to critisize O'Shea because we both think he is totally overrated and the amounts of time he was screaming at the TV because of O'Shea was unreal.

smemon

thats the way o'shea has always played, he holds on to the ball to see if theres anything on (which there never is when he's playing for ireland), then tries to cut inside and nutmeg a player.

the good thing about o'shea is that he's so quick that he waits to see if the ball goes past his man, then runs. if it doesnt, he has sold possesion, not himself. so it's good security as a left back knowing the ball will always be ahead of you. thats the very reason harte isnt in the side anymore.

o'sheas a clever footballer still with alot to learn, but he's the best option we have at left back and that includes finnan, finnan is not a left back no matter what anyone says.

Tellox

Your posts are starting to make my blood boil. You drag up the Roy Keane saga, and now your telling me o'shea was the most solid player out there?

I really ****ing want that ManU forum, that way I wont have to listen to this bollocks.

gucci

Originally posted by smemon
he holds on to the ball to see if theres anything on ......

the good thing about o'shea is that he's so quick that he waits to see if the ball goes past his man, then runs. if it doesnt, he has sold possesion, not himself.

so he holds on to the ball and is so quick?i guess this is why he was at fault for the goal conceded at home to albania.....giving away the ball the ball played in behind him and we were screwed,maybe we could give him the no.10 shirt,their allowed give away the shirt and not bother trying to get it back

The Muppet

I though the defence was poor the other night, had we been facing on form decent strikers we would have conceded goals. I thought O shea was ok at LB but not very effective when he was moved. Defence should be a unit and chopping and changing does not help,we need to settle on our best back 4 and let them get used to playing together. Dunne has never let us down and has a physique more like Herman Monster tha a Profesional Player.

I wouldnt blame Kerr he can only work with the talent available and while it looks like we have some excellent prospects coming through (miller,reid and thompson) if he had used these in the recent qualifying matches and things didn,t work out it could have knocked them back quite badly confidence wise.

I really ****ing want that ManU forum, that way I wont have to listen to this bollocks.

hearing voices again eh.

smemon

how come o'shea gets all the stick after poor performances? carr, breen, holland, kinsella, carsley, given dont get half as much stick after poor performances.

i brought keane backup to show people how wrong they all were writing him off and saying we didnt need him.

u say u want a manu forum? you think i like hearing about liverpool transfer rumours, how great liverpool are playing now, how GH has turned everything around, how when they get hamman and carragher back they'll be unbeatable, how injuries are the cause of poor results, how referee's decisions are the excuses for defeats.......

i'd been watching posts long before i joined and one of the reasons i joined was to get back at liverpool fans for their propaganda. im simply playing them at their own game. i never mentioned manutd on this topic, it was dragged up by someone else.

this was an ireland topic and once again will be de-railed. not my fault, i praise miller (who hasnt played yet) and even healy yet nothing is said, once i back a manu player, all the knives come out.

Tellox

Sorry,when did given have a bad game for Ireland? He was the only reason we had a chance of qualifying imo(well,perhaps duff too). We would've lost at least 2-0 away to albania if we didnt have given between the sticks.

So the reason you signed up was because of liverpool fans,and you were looking to mouth on about how brilliant ManU are?

And your right,this was an Ireland topic, not a roy keane or john o'shea topic, so lets stick to that.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by smemon
how come o'shea gets all the stick after poor performances?

You brought it on yourself by saying this:

duff was by far irelands best player, reid coming 2nd, constantly switched the play beautifully. o'shea played well, a solid performance at left back, gave nothing away.

You mentioned three players that had a good game from a bunch, Duff and Reid were the obvious ones but why did you mention O'Shea in the first place? BECAUSE YOUR A MAN UTD FAN!

Qadhafi

O shea has turned out to be a complete flop. A stupid awkward player who has lots to learn. The likes of doc, morrison and holland are all terrible and shouldn’t be in the team. Irelands performance was crap. No pressure on Ireland last night but we look terrible. Technically incompetent and little imagination apart from Duff and Ried. We need someone on the pitch to drag the team forward. Maybe there will be some light in our next few friendlies. The pitch on Lansdowne Road NEEDS TO BE CUT short before matches, it way too long.

ZENER

Quote:
duff was by far irelands best player, reid coming 2nd, constantly switched the play beautifully. o'shea played well, a solid performance at left back, gave nothing away.


Quote:
You mentioned three players that had a good game from a bunch, Duff and Reid were the obvious ones but why did you mention O'Shea in the first place? BECAUSE YOUR A MAN UTD FAN!


What a load of absolute crap !!!! Why not single out Duff who "was by far Irelands best player" from the statement, or Ried for that matter ???

Because you're an ABU !!!!

Try to be more objective when you pick on someone for their quotes FFS !!!!

Tinky

eirebhoy

Originally posted by tinky
Quote:
duff was by far irelands best player, reid coming 2nd, constantly switched the play beautifully. o'shea played well, a solid performance at left back, gave nothing away.


Quote:
You mentioned three players that had a good game from a bunch, Duff and Reid were the obvious ones but why did you mention O'Shea in the first place? BECAUSE YOUR A MAN UTD FAN!


What a load of absolute crap !!!! Why not single out Duff who "was by far Irelands best player" from the statement, or Ried for that matter ???

Because you're an ABU !!!!

Try to be more objective when you pick on someone for their quotes FFS !!!!

Tinky

What the hell are you talking about, I am not an ABU. In fact I supported them for a long time before I gave up supporting any English team.

I obviously didn't single out Duff or Reid because I agreed that they were the best two players on the pitch but then you have Keane, Holland and Dunne who were all better than O'Shea and smemon thinks O'Shea was the most solid player on the pitch. O'Shea was absolutely crap on Tuesday and to single him out as the most solid player on the pitch is obvious that he is a United fan and you for that matter.

ZENER

Quote:
....smemon thinks O'Shea was the most solid player on the pitch.

There you go again !!! Read smemon's post CAREFULLY again. Nowhere does he say that O'Shea was the MOST solid player on the pitch.

Learn to read ... muppet !!!

Tinky

eirebhoy

Well he said he was the most solid defender on the pitch when Dunne was a lot more solid and even though Cunningham didn't have his best game he was more solid at the back too.

Learn to read ... muppet !!!

I suggest you learn to read, read the bloody charter

ZENER

Quote:
Well he said he was the most solid defender on the pitch when Dunne was a lot more solid and even though Cunningham didn't have his best game he was more solid at the back too.


Have you actually read the post ???? Or did you just see "O'Shea" and saw red !!

HE DID NOT SAY HE WAS THE MOST SOLID ANYTHING !!!

Whats the charter got to do with your inability to read posts and quote them acurately when replying . . a lot thats what !!

I personally congratulate all the players who turned out for Ireland the other night. They did an adaquate job against an inadaquate side with the handicap of a shortsighted manager. Most here are praising players that were "injured" and didn't even bother to turn out for us !!! What about them ? Let's have a bit of objectiveness about this thread why don't we criticise the "injured" . . because none of them were United players . . thats why.

Tinky

eirebhoy

Tinky you are really getting on my nerves. First of all I told you to read the charter because you called me a muppet. And secondly, I will quote you to smemons post where he said O'Shea was the most solid defender on the pitch:

Originally posted by smemon
o'shea was the most solid defender on the park last nite, all his previous games have been poor, i dont argue that. he had a no-nonsense attitude and was never turned by his man. he didnt attack much and did a hell of alot better than kilbane and harte would put together.

And about the injured players. Connolly was definitely injured because he was out for one or two of West Hams matches and I think he would of definitely took his chances to get into Kerr's plans. Miller and Healy both were injured but flew to Dublin. Finnan, I don't know about him but I think he would have wanted to get into Kerr's plans too.

The Muppet

First of all I told you to read the charter because you called me a muppet.

I,m Hurtby that remark, There a distinct lack of thought for us muppets on this forum.;)

Eirebiy I may be wrong but i get the impression that tinky got the impression that you were UTD bashing in your reply to smermons comment re O Shea. I can see his point becaus O Shea didnt have a bad game when playing in his best position LB.

Your Quote below indidcates that you have already made up your mind about O Shea so its not really surprising that those who do not share these views will take issue with them. It may help if you approached the game with an open mind, then your critical views could be considered as constructive criticism instead of player bashing for whatever reason.

Posted By Eireboy
My brother is always looking for reasons to critisize O'Shea because we both think he is totally overrated and the amounts of time he was screaming at the TV because of O'Shea was unreal.

ZENER

Quote:
FFS Smemon, O'Shea had a terrible game and he has never had a good game Ireland. You are telling us we accept second best and we are giving Ireland praise when they lose, you give O'Shea praise ever time he plays crap because you are a United supporter. Solid, my arse!

He said that in reply to you questioning his opinions on the game. O'Shea is a quality player, I don't think you can argue with Sir Alex on that, he is one of the most distinguished managers in the world ! He plays as well as can be expected given his young age and the players in front of him. I can think af all the feeling of woe I had every time I saw harte start in that position !

With regards to me calling you a muppet, why is this any worse than you calling me a United supporter from the side of your mouth ???

Tinky

eirebhoy

Jaysus, do all you United fans come on here at the same time? Anyway.

Originally posted by The Muppet
Your Quote below indidcates that you have already made up your mind about O Shea so its not really surprising that those who do not share these views will take issue with them. It may help if you approached the game with an open mind, then your critical views could be considered as constructive criticism instead of player bashing for whatever reason.

I said I think O'Shea is overrated, that doesn't mean I am looking for reasons to critisize him.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by tinky
With regards to me calling you a muppet, why is this any worse than you calling me a United supporter from the side of your mouth ???

Because I know know you are a United supporter from your posts on this board, no side of the mouth talk though. I also know that Smemon and the Muppet are United fans before you say anything.

GuanYin

I'm a fan of O'Shea to be honest, he has a lot of potential, who remembers his exploits in the thrashing of Newcastle last season?

He cut out the considerable wing threat that newcastle have and ran amok down the left (his mazy run for the cross/shot that hit the post in that game was amazing, in fact I had originally thought it was Giggs). This was an example of O'Shea at his best, and he duely won man of the match.

O'Shea has never made it to this level for Ireland. I'm not quite sure why, he has the ingredients but somethings not quite there for him. Against Canada, who are no great attacking side, he looked a very ordinary player and had jittery moments. Maybe it was residual jitters from the Swiss game. That would be enough to scar any young player.

I'm not quite ready to write him off yet. I remember for along time people said Keane never performed as well for Ireland as he did for Utd and then came USA94 and Korea/Japan qualifiers. O'Shea is young yet.

That said, I still have to call a spade a spade and say for whatever reason, he's not quite at international pace yet.

ZENER

Quote:
I said I think O'Shea is overrated, that doesn't mean I am looking for reasons to critisize him.

So why shout at the telly then every time he plays ??? I dont think it's O'Shea you have a problem with , , it's United.

Tinky

GuanYin

Originally posted by tinky
Quote:
I said I think O'Shea is overrated, that doesn't mean I am looking for reasons to critisize him.

So why shout at the telly then every time he plays ??? I dont think it's O'Shea you have a problem with , , it's United.

Tinky

I think he said his brother shouts at the telly, not him.

The Muppet

I said I think O'Shea is overrated, that doesn't mean I am looking for reasons to critisize him.

You are entitle to that opinion but you should not flame anyone just because the do not share it.

I also know that Smemon and the Muppet are United fans before you say anything.

Whats Utd Got to do with this , I assume Tinky Smermon are like myself Irish.

That appears to be you problem, like the Celtic Boo Boys at landsdown you can not differentiate between Club and Country.

smemon

Originally posted by tinky
Quote:
I dont think it's O'Shea you have a problem with , , it's United.

Tinky

which is basically my point too. o'shea wasnt tne best player on the pitch, far from it. cunnigham and carr were below standard, and dunne to be fair did well at times but against a poor side, canada shouldnt have been allowed so many chances through the centre. not many chances or attacks proved dangerous down the left, hence my point o'shea was our best defender.

if your going to chop some player down, do it to carr who has been alot poorer than o'shea in recent games. carr doesnt want the ball, doesnt get forward much anymore and gives the ball away just as much as o'shea. if carr was a utd player, eireboy and the likes would be comming down on him like a ton of bricks. abu's seem to get a thrill out of picking holes in utd players' performances.

GuanYin

Originally posted by smemon
which is basically my point too. o'shea wasnt tne best player on the pitch, far from it. cunnigham and carr were below standard, and dunne to be fair did well at times but against a poor side, canada shouldnt have been allowed so many chances through the centre. not many chances or attacks proved dangerous down the left, hence my point o'shea was our best defender.

if your going to chop some player down, do it to carr who has been alot poorer than o'shea in recent games. carr doesnt want the ball, doesnt get forward much anymore and gives the ball away just as much as o'shea. if carr was a utd player, eireboy and the likes would be comming down on him like a ton of bricks. abu's seem to get a thrill out of picking holes in utd players' performances.

I'd almost agree with you there and I think Carr was abysmal (and knew it from the look on his face) but I think you can only play the team on the pitch and Dunne did very well against Canada.

As for picking on O'Shea over Carr, if you were to say O'Shea was the worst defender on the night, I'd disagree anyday and say Carr was worse by far. Eireboy says he thinks O'Shea is overrated...thats a different matter...Carr has proven himself at international level and was, at one point, second only to Roy Keane in the team. He's let that slip of late and is a poor, pale reflection of the Carr of old.

O'Shea on the other hand has just not proven himself againts quality opposition at competitive international level. He's done it at Utd, but never for Ireland. Again, against a weak side, he looked ordinary. I'm not picking on him, but I'd say he's not YET the answer we are looking for in the Irish defence.

smemon

fair point, but do u agree o'shea is better than harte or kilbane at left back? he's no superstar yet, but i think he's our best option at left back. the fact he's 2 footed and fairly versatile means if there's an injury he wont look out of place in the centre.

i dont know if this has an effect on him, but at old trafford he gets told were to go and what to do by keane, neville etc.. (all the experienced defensive players) at ireland, perhaps, this is why he underperforms. he's young and still needs to learn but he won't learn much from quiet, modest players.

Big Ears

well im with syke everthing he siad has made the most sense.

The Muppet

I would agree with you too Syke. I think smermon is right in his reasoning for O Sheas poor performances which is lack of experience. That will come in time and he is stilll our best option at LB.

eirebhoy

And before this thread goes down the dungeon I would like to make it perfectly clear that I am far from an ABU. If there was any team I would support in the premiership it would be United simply because they don't need the players that Real, Bayern, etc. have to win things. What other team could put a player like Phil Neville in midfield and put in a great performance.:)

The Muppet

What other team could put a player like Phil Neville in midfield and put in a great performance.

Out of interest what criteria do you use to judge a fotballers ability, is it looks or personality ? Phil Neville has played well in midfield for Utd. and fergie is playing him there ahead of some of the dedicated midfielders so he must rate him too.

You claim to be a Utd. fan at heart yet you slag their players ability( O Shea/Neville) without justification IMHO.

GuanYin

Originally posted by smemon
fair point, but do u agree o'shea is better than harte or kilbane at left back? he's no superstar yet, but i think he's our best option at left back. the fact he's 2 footed and fairly versatile means if there's an injury he wont look out of place in the centre.

i dont know if this has an effect on him, but at old trafford he gets told were to go and what to do by keane, neville etc.. (all the experienced defensive players) at ireland, perhaps, this is why he underperforms. he's young and still needs to learn but he won't learn much from quiet, modest players.

I think O'Shea has the potential to make it as one of the better left backs the country has had, mostly due to his skil with both feet and ability to get forward. But I would say that Kilbane has performed better in big mathes when the chips are down (he has also played pants 101 times for Ireland but you are only as good as your last few games).

I really don't understand O'Sheas lack of form for Ireland and would be slow to put it down to communication from experienced players. Cunningham is probably one of the top 10 (if not top 5) centre backs in the premiership this season and is renowned for his talking during a game. Given isn't a quiet man on the pitch either. I really think its a confidence thing. He just doesn't seem to have the same certainty about himself as he has done for Utd. Maybe he feels the team is inferior, but why against Canada would it be an issue?

I really don't know if I would play him at the moment. As stupid as that sounds, most of our creative players are left sided and with Duff's game including alot of roaming and even Reid (who in fairness tracks back alot) Kilbane (ditto) and McPhail are more attack minded we need a solid left back. At the moment I'd like to see Finnan tried there or even Kilbane. Maybe ease O'Shea in with half a dozen 30 minute caps.

GuanYin

The match also had the most Irish born players since Giles was manager with only Stephen Reid not born in Ireland.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by The Muppet
You claim to be a Utd. fan at heart yet you slag their players ability( O Shea/Neville) without justification IMHO.

I didn't slag any players ability.