I'm failing line test when all around me are passing??

Calibos · 06-11-2003 01:33AM #1

I heard ages ago that the A/c No. requirement for the eircom online line checker was done away with. Never bothered to take advantage of this by checking my neighbours lines till now.

The result? I looked up the numbers of the 5 neighbours whose surnames I could remember, all happening to be in a row on the opposite side of the road (ie 20ft away). They all passed!!

So I take it that rules out distance from the exchange and line quality!

:D So it is either the fact that I have ISDN though they say that shouldn't affect the test, or its the fax and PC on the ISDN box or the Dect phone on the other extension.

Which leads me too the question about live line testing. I think I remember reading posts here where people said they got live line tests done whereas over on the IOFFL forum the general consensus seems to be that the rat doesn't do live tests hence all this workaround malarkey about leaving everything disconnected for a month for the auto test. Is it a case of having to get lucky with the tech you get on the phone as to whether he/she will only consult the database for you or go the extra mile and contact his buddies in the test department for a live test.

Why do the effers have to make it so hard??

me:can you test my line please
Eircon: Failed Sir
me: Kay, dect phone unplugged, test again please
Eircom: Failed Sir
me: Kay, Fax and PC unplugged, test again please
Eircon: Passed Sir!
me: Great, amend the database please so i can order off UTV!!

Ba$tard · 06-11-2003 07:23AM

Count yourself as one of the lucky ones, believe me.

yellabelly · 06-11-2003 07:54AM

I have had a similar experience. I was a fail with ISDN - an attached modem, 1 wired phone & 2 DECTs. I passed a live line test with the ISDN box switched off and a single phone plugged in the 1st channel. The sales staff pretend to know nothing about live testing and try to steer ISDNs away from self install, presumably because they can make a few more bucks out of you. Since downgrading to PSTN my line is a pass. They told me that it would take a least 2 weeks to run the retest but it was 2 working days!

BKtje · 06-11-2003 09:08AM

So it is either the fact that I have ISDN though they say that shouldn't affect the test, or its the fax and PC on the ISDN box or the Dect phone on the other extension.

I also failed with ISDN when i rang IOL, Eircom and Netsource. I ran Esat ADSL Business and they said there was no problems. (they didnt even test the line they just asked me some question including distance from exchange and said its fine)

Anyway i was told it would be about 6 weeks of no phone before my line would be dsl enabled so i got myself a new analog phone line in. I was curious to see if it would pass so i rang up but was told it takes a month to get into database. I then rang up Esat Business again and they said they could install on either (tho on the new line would be quicker) so i got them to install it on the new line. 4 weeks later im on dsl and i get a call back from Netsource saying that my line has passed and would i like to order RADSL.

Imo its probably the ISDN thats causing the fail (i recall Eircom said that 75%(or something) of isdn lines were failing cos of an error in their test metod, tho i think they said they fixed it)

Anyways all the best

Calibos · 08-11-2003 12:42AM

The plot thickens

I realised there is another eircom 'manhole' across the road to which all those neighbours who passed would probably be connected. Maybe it was something to do with the manhole at the bottom of my drive. I finally found out the surnames of the 2 neighbours on either side of me and checked for their numbers in the phone book. I entered them in the online checker and they both passed so seeing as they are probably connected to the same 'manhole' as me (ie. the one at the bottom of my drive) it would seem to rule out everything except the line running from the manhole to my house, my ISDN or fax/dect.

Now, an Eircom Winback Rep called today. I was at work. Typical :rolleyes: Anyway, my mother told him that we would only consider coming back to Eircom if they sorted us for broadband. She told him we always failed on the online checker. He got on the phone to organise a live test. She disconnected the fax and the computer from the ISDN wall box (but left it plugged in) but forgot to disconnect the Dect and its extension. The line still failed. I know this is anti competive special treatment by a winback rep but we couldn't pass up the chance of a live test.

The winback guy said a new line for €130 would virtually guarantee us broadband and I have to agree seeing as we've managed to narrow the problem down to the cabling between the 'manhole'/junction box at the bottom of our drive and/or dect/fax. I've got the engineers number who did the live test (thank god for caller ID!) so I'll try and get another live test next week and finally rule out the dect phone. If it passes then great, no need for a new line. If it still fails then I'll order a new line.

The galling thing is though is that the problem could be the 2 inches of cable exposed on the footpath at the junction box. The outer shielding has been worn away by the car driving over it. My mother pointed this out to the winback guy but he said that seeing as the phone worked Eircom would not repair it. I reckon I should just sever it and claim ignorance and get them out to do a 'free' repair seeing as they didn't bury it properly in the first place and thus would get a new line without having to pay €130 for it. The 'oul dear' said no. If I did that she said we would be without phone or internet for however long it took them to come to repair it which knowing our luck could be weeks. I had to conceed she was probably right.

So!!!

Assuming I have to get a new line for Broadband. How do I make it the most cost effective seeing as

: I have ISDN on the current line.
: Can't do self install on ISDN lines Only engineer installs
: Special offers only apply to self intalls.
: I can do a self install myself on the new line
: When can I get rid of the old ISDN line, can I get the guy that fits the new line to remove the old line and ISDN Equipment.
: Should I wait till the new line passes before I get rid of Old ISDN line but will that mean another fee for romving old line on top of the €130 fee for the new line etc etc .

My head is wrecked trying to work out all the permutations!! Can anyone help me, Muck Where are you!!

:D:D

BKtje · 08-11-2003 02:00AM

Right im no Muck but i was under the impression you can just get them to cancel the ISDN and they dont charge you. (ie they leave u with the box etc but its not 'live'). However this seems to easy for me. I still got my ISDn as well, really should get rid of it as im just feeding eircom moeny

Lemme know how u get on

Calibos · 08-11-2003 02:58AM

Will do. Thanks Mate!

Calibos · 09-11-2003 10:31PM

Heres some pics of the exposed phone cable. So should I have to pay €130 for a new line for broadband or should Eircom fix/replace this one for free?? :rolleyes:

spongebob · 09-11-2003 11:08PM

ye know far more than I do at this stage

Eircom want to protect their ISDN revenue.

You can downlgrade temporarily to POTS for E25 and get it tested straight away. If it fails you get upgraded free to ISDN, if it passes you have the one line while the DSL order is processed ring the ADSL section about this not 1901.

If that line is on the public footpath and not inside your wall then it is hazardous at the voltage levels used by ISDN. Granny stabs it with her umbrella and p00t scenario!

Sniipe · 10-11-2003 12:02AM

OK, here's my story, I want BB, but I keep failing BB. At one stage I actually passed the line test

but didn't buy BB in time

Anyway, my neighbours who are deffo on the same line as I am (as i'm in a cul de sac) have BB.

I've no fax/isdn/etc. All I have is 2 phone points both of em extentions (but not too long).

Question : How do I get a live line test? I know they are going to tell me that they have not heard of such a thing (i remember someone there telling me of the sort; he said that the database is updated monthly and that I should try again then), BAH! Is there a Jim/John/Mary that I can ask for who has a clue???

Please help me... Also is it true that ESB are going to have BB? or is that BS that I heard from my Da???

spongebob · 10-11-2003 12:08AM

Originally posted by Sniipe
Question : How do I get a live line test? I know they are going to tell me that they have not heard of such a thing (i remember someone there telling me of the sort; he said that the database is updated monthly and that I should try again then), BAH! Is there a Jim/John/Mary that I can ask for who has a clue???

Please help me... Also is it true that ESB are going to have BB? or is that BS that I heard from my Da???

Live test involves getting a name and number in your local exchange ...by hook or crook

The ESB will not provide a DSL type service at 0.5Mbit over copper. They will give you 155Mbit on fibre if you are interested.

M

Calibos · 10-11-2003 12:12AM

If that line is on the public footpath and not inside your wall then it is hazardous at the voltage levels used by ISDN. Granny stabs it with her umbrella and p00t scenario!

[ace ventura]Rah....ea...lll....yyy..!!![/ace ventura]

:D

Its on the footpath at the bottom of my drive. So how would I go about getting Eircom out to fix this public health hazard??!! And how do I make sure they don't just spread a bit of cement over it but replace the line?

:D

Sniipe · 10-11-2003 12:16AM

cool. will do. Just a quick question. Can I disconnect everything at the phone point??? including the phones?? and ring them on a mobile? Ou phone point is blank with extentions going to other rooms. Or is it a case of just disconnecting the phones/comps from the end of the extentions???

Thanks Muck

Sniipe · 10-11-2003 12:22AM

get onto the county council and get them to ring eircom about this blatent abandoness of professionalism

spongebob · 10-11-2003 10:01AM

Originally posted by Sniipe
Our phone point is blank with extentions going to other rooms. Or is it a case of just disconnecting the phones/comps from the end of the extentions???

I dont want to wreck your head but there is a Golden rule.

ALL extensions MUST be in SERIES

Your internal system may be radial from that one phone point which is very common . While phones would continue to work, radial extensions play havoc with DSL or indeed any data service.

In order to pass you may need to open that 'blank' point where the wire comes in and to photo the wiring munge in there and post it in here maybe? If you could trace a bit and annotate the munnge with arrows n stuff then that would be a great help.

If your internal wiring comprises of ONE pair or a twisted pair going off from that point to each extension then you could be trouble and be looking at a rewire of the extensions.

If the internal wiring is 2 pair (orange / orange white / blue / blue white wires) the radial problem can be remedied easily by an electrician or someone who wires phones/ data and converted to serial wiring from radial wiring, 1-2 hours and maybe 2-3 quality sockets at €7 each . Ok it may cost €50-€60 but it has to be converted to serial some time in my opinion. Think of the fun you'll have with VDSL next year

M

Sniipe · 10-11-2003 01:47PM

Jesus, thanks Muck

will photo that. Need to pull a digicam from somewhere! As far as I'm aware its 2 wires with each wire split into two.

[EDIT] Tried to do a graph but the spaces were deleted when it was posted [EDIT]

C@non · 10-11-2003 01:51PM

go to www.iol.ie and try the test there, i didnt pass it the first time, and the second time i did, i think its just ur phone line that goes up and down in erm... power yea...:o

visigoth · 10-11-2003 10:14PM

Keep checking the databases on Eircom.ie and iol.ie to see if your lines are passing or failing... lines can fail because of rain fall, wind, a tree bashing against the lines, a bird sitting on the lines etc., etc., due to the old copper wiring's amazing effect to loose the electrical signal (degrading) as it passes down the line.

The lines are re-tested by the little Eircom robot dude at the Exchanges and the database updated. You could also contact Eircom and have them add you to their list of ppl to call back if their lines do pass eventually.

Failing can also be due to theire not being enough room at the exchange (poor baby Jebus). And when there is demand, the exchanges are updated to handle to extra BB customers.

Visi.

Sniipe · 11-11-2003 10:25PM

ok a couple of rumors I want to put to rest.

1) How often does the exchange generally update
my answer is "monthly"
there answer is "I don't know"
2) Do extentions matter?
my answer "I don't have a clue"
there answer "no, the test only goes as far as the door"
3) What the hell is doing a survey on the line?
my answer is "Dunno"
there answer "blah blah blah"
4) The neighbours have BB why can't I?
my answer is "Dunno, but I'll do anything to get it"
there answer "Its just the way it is"
5) Whats a carrier line?
my answer "I'm on a line that someone else is on"
there answer "your line is not a carrier, its just too weak"

Weak?? I'd guess a weak line is where u connect to the net at 40000 or less, I connect to the net at 46000 all the time. Is there any connection?

6)If I get a new line at €130 can I get BB
my answer "there maybe a good chance"
there answer "we can't guarantee anything"
7)Do you guys know anything
my answer "they don't, they just read from a screen"
there answer "beep beep beep (ingaged tone)"

Ba$tard · 12-11-2003 01:36PM

here we go..

1) How often does the exchange generally update
my answer is "monthly"
there answer is "I don't know"

Every 4 weeks to the dot is when the pre-qual teams do their national testing. You can DEMAND an individual line test through DSL sales or better still, through your local exchange's eircom lead technican who in turn will make direct contact to the pre-qual in dublin.

2) Do extentions matter?
my answer "I don't have a clue"
there answer "no, the test only goes as far as the door"

Yes they do. The more extensions, the more capacitance and RF interference on your line. Line signal testing may pass, but the DSL SELP test will fail for this. Their test is ;
Frequency Domain Reflection - Bandwidth - how much data can they squeeze down your loop without the return data integrity going below a certain threshold
Time Domain Reflection - Latency - How long does the reflection take from the CO (exchange) to your first loop, i.e. inside the circuitry of your first phone line. Multiple phones with splitters, CID's will affect this.

3) What the hell is doing a survey on the line?
my answer is "Dunno"
there answer "blah blah blah"

Survy, is the SELP test

4) The neighbours have BB why can't I?
my answer is "Dunno, but I'll do anything to get it"
there answer "Its just the way it is"

Wrong, its 90% of the time the amount of equipment you have hanging off your phone line inside the house. disconnect everything except a decent quality phone like eircom's Nortel ones.

5) Whats a carrier line?
my answer "I'm on a line that someone else is on"
there answer "your line is not a carrier, its just too weak"

A carrier line can be where you line also carries a control signal for other lines in your local neighbour, or segment of houses.Doesnt affect voice, but does affect data. Spilt lines is where they put 2 voice lines over one pair of copper, but you would know if you had this as max connect to the net would be always 33.6k

Weak?? I'd guess a weak line is where u connect to the net at 40000 or less, I connect to the net at 46000 all the time. Is there any connection?

Forget the term weak

if you get 46,000, your line is showing it has good latency to be able to degnotiate at good 56k speeds and pretty good bandwidth also. Take all extensions off your line and directly connect your modem to your main phone terminal and try to connect to the net and see if it improves. I get 46k and am now eligable for dsl (awaiting iol order)

6)If I get a new line at €130 can I get BB
my answer "there maybe a good chance"
there answer "we can't guarantee anything"

Correct, one of the main guys in Dublin pre-qual test said quoting 'they are not allowed to say that'
Forgot about this option until you clean up your phone line, and take off ALL equipment bar your main phone. Wait a few weeks and check pre-qual test results again.

7)Do you guys know anything
my answer "they don't, they just read from a screen"
there answer "beep beep beep (ingaged tone)"

They just read from screen or sheets on hand written paper.
See, the drones, its not their problem, its the management. They are not trained correctly.

HTH

Sniipe · 12-11-2003 03:06PM

Thanks alot Ba$tard, that has really helped me.

I was just about to give up as I rang Eircom again and went to the whole rigramole of giving me reasons, after me telling her what I had read from boards and her telling me the opposite (in many ways)

I'm gonna try and get one of those nortel phone (currently have a siemens cordless) and take out the blank slot and put it there temporarly, then find the number of the galway exchange.

[EDIT] How do I go about getting the live test? The kind people at 1800503303 don't have a number. Is it just a case of ringing directory enquires and asking them the number of the Mervue exchange.
[EDIT]

Calibos · 12-11-2003 03:32PM

Can someone advise me whether this is the correct way to proceed.

I'm assuming the next step I should take before I downgrade to PSTN for a retest or install a new line for a test is to use that Engineer phone number I got from caller ID (the winback Rep used our phone to ring said engineer!

) and get him to do a retest, this time disconnecting all equipment.

I'll explain the wiring as best I can. The phone line enters the Eircom box in the hall, goes out the Eircom box into the other room to the ISDN box, then the analogue port of the ISDN is wired to the unused pair back along the same cable to a Beige RJ11 socket mounted under the Eircom Box in the hall. This pair are wired to 2 screw connection posts in the RJ11 box. Then 2 wires from these screw posts and 2 wires from the other 2 screw posts (ie 4 wires) go into the actual RJ11 socket. There is a standard RJ11 extension cable connected to this box which goes to a socket in the kitchen to which a Dect phone is connected. (ie this extension is wired in series after the ISDN box)

I probably haven't explained that very well. Anyway I assume the best I can do is:

Disconnect Fax from ISDN box, Unplug ISDN box, Plug bog standard phone to analogue socket on ISDN box and finally disconnect Dect extension from RJ11 socket under Eircom Box in hall.

Okay, assuming I fail this retest would my next step be to try and get Eircom to comeout and repair the line (pictured above) before I go and spend €130 on a new line. ie Bullsh*t them a little and say I can't be without phone and although line is working now, I am prempting a line break or as Muck said, pre-emting a little old lady getting an electric shock when she pierces it with her umbrella. If they agree then after repair downgrade to PSTN for a retest? If they dont repair then order new line, port existing number to new line, test for BB, order BB, when I have Broadband then downgrade and get rid of old line?????

HELP!!

:D

Ba$tard · 12-11-2003 08:56PM

How do I go about getting the live test? The kind people at 1800503303 don't have a number. Is it just a case of ringing directory enquires and asking them the number of the Mervue exchange.

Call 1901, and see if they will give you the name of a friendly local techie or engineer. Thats what I had to do

shinzon · 12-11-2003 10:15PM

Well thats what i did with 1901, they kindly did give me the phoine number of the local team leader in waterford, and if you look at my thread in the irelandoffline forum, youll see where that got me

Nowhere

Shin

Ba$tard · 13-11-2003 01:14PM

Hi Shinzon,
I've read your saga. Not good.

It really depends on how well in tune with the DSL rollout the lead tech is in your area, and also how helpful he wants to be!

Some dont have a clue about it or pretend not to know, but every so often you will get a guy who will say, look I dont know alot about it, but I know a man who does, etc etc.

Its pretty sad, just hope it improves

I'm failing line test when all around me are passing??

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