The Question of Stadia

Qadhafi

Between the Government and the FAI Irish soccer and rugby is still in a real bad way. I was reading this morning about the Euro 2008 Championships. It looks like the Austrians might not be able to hold the event as they are having trouble with the funding.

If the government went ahead with either a 80,000 65,000 or even Eircom park we would have been strong contenders Euro 2008 Championships !

Because of the lack of political will, sports is still stuck in a time warp. The FAI still hasnt built its new headquarters and a national academy where the stadium is to be built.

Many here have argued that we dont need 2 stadia of 80,000 size. Well obviously that nonsense. By international standards we are a huge sporting nation and particiape in many different sports. Take for instance the community games, rugby, soccer. They all need a sporting home and not every single one of them can fit into Croke Park alongside GAA, Hurling, Camogie, and International/Compromise rules.

The GAA has recently published a plan which outlines how they are going to pay off the €100 million dept. The reckon that they can do it within 10 years with NO help from other sports.

A second stadium of 65,000 - 80,000 would do wonders for the likes community games, rugby, soccer and developing other potential sports.

Some People mentioned re-developing Lansdowne road but the pitch would have to be turned 90 degrees and most of the supporters would be located in the middle and not behind the goals which is a joke.

Soccer will always be held back in this country until the FAI has a reasonable income to re-invest into the school football programs, developing regional stadia (like the one they are currently building in Athlone), improving the National league etc well always be a sh1t soccer country. Our league should be a bit more like Scotlands.

Rugby has similar problems, our national side keeps getting better but we are barely professional, a lot of corners are cut and if we want to continue to improve more money needs to be invested. What about rubgy in connacht ? If we had a stadium rugby would have a decent income and could better fund rugby in the west.

Gate reciepts from a 65,000 or 80,000 will go a long way to fund this. Also there is not much for young people to do in this country except go out on the beer. Sport greatly benefits the inviduduals health and the more people invovled in sport the better.

Simply looking at the one off cost of building a stadium is wrong and foolish. However in saying that we should be able to get at least a 65,000 stadium for €300 million.

Bertie build a stadium !

KdjaCL

We need a 40k seater in Cork and a 80k in Dublin.

There are 2 grounds already that could be altered to get these figures.
Parc Ui Chaoimh (sp?) and Croke park would be perfect.

Then the international team rotates between them.



Sadly not gonna happen ,Turners Cross couldnt be raised that much as its practically landlocked. And only a new stadium in Dublin could accomadate 80k.

kdjac

Imposter

That bit about the 2008 been taken from Austria/Swiss looks unlikely.

If Klagenfurt isn't going to be completed in time it look like they'll use the stadium in Linz which holds 25,000 at the moment. A few relatively small changes could be done before 2008 which would increase that.

There is zero talk of them losing the competition on the Uefa site also. There's a meeting in Austria about what they're going to do today though.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by KdjaC
We need a 40k seater in Cork and a 80k in Dublin.

With all due respect, why do we need a stadium of that size in Cork?

eirebhoy

Here is an article out of the Irish Independent:

FAI again miss out on Euro 2008


IRELAND is set to miss out on a second chance to bid for the Euro 2008 Championships because we did not push on with building a national stadium, writes Gerry McDermott.

A joint bid from Ireland and Scotland was rejected by UEFA in December in favour of Switzerland and Austria. But the winning bid is now in jeopardy after the collapse of a deal to build a €44m stadium in the Austria's Klagenfurt.

The FAI's Chief Executive Fran Rooney last night admitted that if UEFA re-open the bidding the association will again be hindered by the stadium issue.

I really couldn't care if we hosted the Euro 2008 but the thing that has really annoyed me from this passage is this line:
...after the collapse of a deal to build a €44m stadium in the Austria's Klagenfurt.
This stadium would have had to be at least a 30,000 seater to play host to European Championsip matches. The stadium that we were supposed to be building was going to be between 65,000 and 80,000. That is 2.5 times bigger than the Austrian one. So, 2.5 times €44m is €110. How the fúck is was Eircom park quoted to be €500m???

The reason why the stadium is not being built is because of the price. Ireland may be the most expensive country in the europe but how the hell can you build a 30,000 seater in Austria for 44m and a 80,000 costs 500m over here. I also posted a thread a while ago about this here but nobody bothered replying.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by eireboy
Here is an article out of the Irish Independent:

I really couldn't care if we hosted the Euro 2008 but the thing that has really annoyed me from this passage is this line:
...after the collapse of a deal to build a €44m stadium in the Austria's Klagenfurt.
This stadium would have had to be at least a 30,000 seater to play host to European Championsip matches. The stadium that we were supposed to be building was going to be between 65,000 and 80,000. That is 2.5 times bigger than the Austrian one. So, 2.5 times €44m is €110. How the fúck is was Eircom park quoted to be €500m???

The reason why the stadium is not being built is because of the price. Ireland may be the most expensive country in the europe but how the hell can you build a 30,000 seater in Austria for 44m and a 80,000 costs 500m over here. I also posted a thread a while ago about this here but nobody bothered replying.

The 500 million is not for the stadium alone, it includes infrastructure upgrades and numerous aspects of the campus..

Qadhafi

Wasnt one of the reasons why Abbotstown was given the go ahead was because of the problem of access, but since the M-50 looks likely to be getting that €700m upgrade thats one less reason.

The Price of building anything in this country is crazy. The portugese can build 7 stadia for one Abbotstown 80,000 here!

If the government decides in the comming months decides to build Eircom park instead of Abbotstown its going to mean that in around 5 years time its going to be too small and it doesnt cater for the smaller sports.


Here if they can get a €4,2bn Metro down to €2bn they can do the same with a €500 million National Stadium.

IgnatiusJRiley

a 40 to 50k modern stadium would do fine for the footie. Croker is too damn big for the crowd to be intimidating to the opposition

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by Qadhafi

Here if they can get a €4,2bn Metro down to €2bn they can do the same with a €500 million National Stadium.

Considering the Metro is being canned, I would prefer it didnt take that route.

woosaysdan

havent FIFA or one of them deemed LandsdowneRoad not suitable any more because of the seating???

mr_angry

They've banned temporary seating, which reduces the capacity of Landsdowne Road to 18,000.

Since most of the cost revolves around the purchase of the actual site, isn't it surprising that it'd only cost €44m to build a stadium in Austria, and €500m here?

Big Ears

KjaC there are atcually three groung in ireland that could be changed to adapt to soccer. SEMPLE STADIUM (Tipperary) its current capaciaty is 60,000 and is the gaa second choice stadium when croke park cant be used. it would need its seeting to be changed from stone to plastic though and remove the terrances at both ends probably cutting the capaciaty to what i would say 45,000.(its a better location than Cork too. more central )

Qadhafi

I think the best bet for the FAI would be to sell of Landsdown road and the Governement to go ahead with FAI/Rugby and build some sort of stadium out in Abotstown be it 65,000 or 80,000. Lansdown road is to be honest a bit of a third world facility. Whats the capacity down to now anyway, 15,000?

What are we going to use the land way out there for anyway? Dublin is too thinly populated to start developing way out there.

AngelofFire

I think its stupid that we have a 90,000 seater stadium in croke park and we cant use it. If it belonged to any other sporting organisation in the world but the GAA, soccer would be allowed to be played there.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by Qadhafi
I think the best bet for the FAI would be to sell of Landsdown road and the Governement to go ahead with FAI/Rugby and build some sort of stadium out in Abotstown be it 65,000 or 80,000. Lansdown road is to be honest a bit of a third world facility. Whats the capacity down to now anyway, 15,000?

What are we going to use the land way out there for anyway? Dublin is too thinly populated to start developing way out there.

Lansdowne road is not owned by the FAI.... So that won't happen.

Aindriu

90,000 seater stadium in croke park

Will that actually be the capacity of Croke park when its finished??


we defintely need a new stadium, build it out in abbotstown. At least 65,000 but really we need a 80,000!!

KdjaCL

If Ireland played a game in Cork in a stadium that held 40k they would sell out in minutes.

Its a 2nd venue that can be sold out with just Cork and southern people then the Dublin stadium would only have Leinster peeps in it.
Thats 120k people who would watch ireland if given the chance.
I imagine more would but they just low estimates.
Semple stadium wouldnt be that good as Cork has a higher pop than every other county(bar dublin).

Then having 2 stadiums of that size puts in with any joint bids for Euros.

kdjac

jesus_thats_gre

But why Cork, its in the lowest corner of the country. You cannot get anywhere that is less central, well except Donegal maybe.

Dublin makes sense because it is the capital and has al least quarter of the countries population. And regarding Cork having a large population, its fcukin huge for gods sake... We should have the stadium in somewhere with the highest population density over a similar sized area, that is accessible, and its infrastructure can handle it. Putting it somewhere along the M1 between Dundalk and Dublin would make alot of sense.

Big Ears

tipperary may not have the biggest population but i beleive it has more countys surrounding in that any other county.With that in mind and tipp being reasonably central it would be a good location for the national stadium.

Qadhafi

If we ever get a new stadium for Soccer/Rugby it has to be in Dublin. There is no point building a huge 80,000 stadium in the middle of nowhere.


The decision has to be made before christmas doesnt it? well it will probably turn out to be something **** like a 35,000/45/000 stadium knowing our government. Somthing like that would be a complete joke.

puntosporting

"If we ever get a new stadium for Soccer/Rugby it has to be in Dublin. There is no point building a huge 80,000 stadium in the middle of nowhere."

Are you saying if its outside dublin its in the middle of nowhere?

eirebhoy

Originally posted by puntosporting
"If we ever get a new stadium for Soccer/Rugby it has to be in Dublin. There is no point building a huge 80,000 stadium in the middle of nowhere."

Are you saying if its outside dublin its in the middle of nowhere?

Yep.

jesus_thats_gre

No, outside of Dublin does not mean the middle of nowhere. The middle of nowhere means somewhere with a very low population density and not sufficient infrastructure to handle 80,000 people.

Cork City is all well and good for people in Cork, but its does not suit 80% of the population. Dublin suits at least 70% of the population but we need some stuff outside of Dublin. So somewhere about 30 min to an hour outside of Dublin, near major transport routes in any direction, would be suitable perfect.

Doctor J

Dublin is where it's at. That's why so many of yeee bog folk choose to live here. Just build the bloody stadium near the M50 and we can all sleep soundly. Then we should blow up Croke Park and turn our noses up when the GAA come crawling, cap in hand, for more of our hard-earned tax money.

Cork? Well, we all remember what happened to Michael Collins when he tried to go there

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by Doctor J
Dublin is where it's at. That's why so many of yeee bog folk choose to live here. Just build the bloody stadium near the M50 and we can all sleep soundly.

If it is to be built in Dublin, near the M50 is the only option..

Mind you, I wouldnt mind if they stuck it along the M1 somewhere just north of Swords. The M1 on one side and the N1 on the other would be a nice escape route.

Qadhafi

near major transport routes in any direction, would be suitable perfect.

the best place to put it is in Abbotstown ! the m50 is bound to get that €700million upgrade, and its a green field site so it will be the best location infastructure wise.

Im not scanger but I want it in Dublin. Im not travelling way down to some bog to see Ireland play. Whats so special about Munster? The motorway wont be finished until at least 2007 so its a non starter.

Bertie better build a decent sized stadium. If he goes ahead with a crappy 45,000 stadium there will be a fracas. 80,000 in abbotstown (with a roof) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no point building a brand new tiny stadium. The GAA is never going to let soccer in (thats another story). If we had rubgy/soccer more developed (i.e with funds generated from gate reciepts at the new 80,000 stadium) we might have more people playing sports, hence we would be going to Portugal and might have beaten the Aussies.

Imposter

Originally posted by Qadhafi
Im not scanger but I want it in Dublin. Im not travelling way down to some bog to see Ireland play. Whats so special about Munster? The motorway wont be finished until at least 2007 so its a non starter.

What's so special about Dublin? I think it should be built near Dublin ideally somewhere with easy access to the rest of the country. Abbottstown seems quite a good location. As for your motorway comment, when exactly do you expect the stadium to be finished?

Bertie better build a decent sized stadium. If he goes ahead with a crappy 45,000 stadium there will be a fracas. 80,000 in abbotstown (with a roof) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it's built for all sports it'll be unlikely to be a 45,000 stadium as it will be big enough for a GAA pitch. 45,000 around such an area is only one level.

Doctor J

Originally posted by Imposter

If it's built for all sports it'll be unlikely to be a 45,000 stadium as it will be big enough for a GAA pitch. 45,000 around such an area is only one level.

I know a place with a GAA pitch

cournioni

It would be horrible to have an all sports stadium. The crowd would be so far away from the pitch it would be unbearable. I think it should just be built for Rugby and Soccer. Don't let the GAA be a part of it either. They want Croke Park to themselves, then they shouldn't have anything to do with a new stadium.

Doctor J

Absolutely. A stadium for foriegn sports only, let the GAA keep their dirty mitts off!

Qadhafi

something like what Wales have got would be nice how much did theirs cost?
Build something like that in Abbotstown. I agree, a running track would be brutal!

As for your motorway comment, when exactly do you expect the stadium to be finished?

just dont want to travel down to cork thats all. Cork should get some sort of stadium in the future but not right now.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Qadhafi
something like what Wales have got would be nice how much did theirs cost?

I'm getting angry again when I see the price of stadiums in other countries. The Millenium stadium in Wales was built in 1999 and it cost a whopping £130mil (€190mil). :mad: :mad: :mad:

cournioni

Apart from improvements to the infestructure, what the hell is putting the price of the stadium up so damn high?!

Imposter

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
It would be horrible to have an all sports stadium. The crowd would be so far away from the pitch it would be unbearable. I think it should just be built for Rugby and Soccer. Don't let the GAA be a part of it either. They want Croke Park to themselves, then they shouldn't have anything to do with a new stadium.

You're right, build a stadium that soccer can use that's just about big enough for soccer. Seeing as rugby play on a similar sized pitch lets pretend they can play too. Oh and let's call it the national stadium!</sarcasm>

Croke Park is their pitch they can do what they want with it. Yes the government gave some money towards it's cost but listening to some people you'd think the government funded the whole thing.

Why shouldn't a new stadium be capable of having an athletics track around it? The crowd migh tbe further away but it would make it easier to get more fans in as it would be bigger. That was one of the arguments wasn't it?

It's to be a NATIONAL stadium. Not a replacement for Landsdowne.

cournioni

Its not that there won't be as many people in the stadium with a running track around it, its that everyone will be so far away from the pitch you'll hardly be able to see which player is which. Thats why I think there shouldn't be a running track around it.

I'm a huge Gaelic Football supporter, but why they don't let sports like soccer and rugby be played in Croker is beyond me. I remember a few years back they had an American Football match in Croker, it is a foreign sport, why not have soccer?

It is just childish and stupid the way the GAA are handling it. I think that the FAI and the IRFU should approach the GAA and make it public so that everyone will see how backward they really are. They give the great Gaelic games a really bad name in my opinion.

Doctor J

The National Rugby and Football teams can play there

Let's be honest, why spend money on an athletics track which will be used sparingly, at best. When was the last time you saw more than 10,000 people in Santry? Do we really need an 80,000 seater stadium to host athletics to less than 10% of it's capacity? The cost of doing a Stade De France type stadium with retractable lower tiers is scary, especially when you see how much it costs to build a regular stadium in this country.

If you want a national stadium in this country, here's how to do it.

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL TEAM

It's horrible to see so many Irish people wearing English teams jerseys, ensuring English football teams have modern stadia paid for in part by Irish money. F*ck Man Utd, Liverpool, Leeds, Arsenel and all the rest. Buy a Bohs jersey, buy a Shels jersey, buy a Pats jersey. Go see some League Of Ireland football. Put your money into Irish football, rather than your money paying for a better English national team. All money that goes to English teams means the English FA is better off.

Put Irish money into Irish teams and the money will work it's way up so that Irish sporting organisations can afford their own stadia

Imposter

But building a national stadium means building it for as many sports as possible. An athletics track could be removable. Did I see somewhere a stadium where a whole stand can move in or out? (Stade de France maybe)

I think soccer should be allowed to play at croker subject to conditions. My problem is I wouldn't trust the FAI to honour those conditions. Rugby I'm not so sure about. That would do serious damage to the pitch. Anyways at the end of the day my main point is that the government, the FAI, Irish Soccer supporters or anybody else should not be able to force the GAA do anything as it is their stadium.

cournioni

No one is forcing them to do anything. The thing is that they're getting greedy. They are afraid that soccer might take over as the number one sport in Ireland. So they won't let them into the stadium. They should support Irish sport, not try to make Irish sport their own and take it over. People like myself would gladly watch both, there are some that will watch soccer only, and some that will watch gaelic only. That is the way it is always going to be.

Imposter

How are they getting greedy? I also don't think the problem is with soccer taking over as first sport. Why should they be afraid?

I will gladly watch and have played both (or all 3 if we take football and hurling as seperates) and have no problem with this.

It's the GAA's choice what they do. I may not agree, you may not agree, the majority of sports fans in ireland may not agree but it's their choice.

The reasons for not allowing other sports come from different sources. Partly it's the traditionalists attitude of 'foreign sports', partly it's the issue of residents in the area and partly it's the pitch itself.

Anyways most of this is gone off-topic.

cournioni

It is still on the topic of stadia... American Football is a foreign sport, yet I remember they played it in Croke park a few years back...

Doctor J

And all those foreign entertainers who've lined the GAA's pockets playing gigs there...?

Big Ears

didnt the president of the GAA (at least thats what i think he was) u know the kerryman sasy he would like other sports to be played in croke park and there would be a vote in the next annural meeting(third time they'll have done that ). Well to me their just going to keep bringing it up at meetings and for at least the next 5 years it will probably be voted against.

Imposter

The american football and the concerts are one-offs. I agree if they have a ban on 'foreign sports' that american footbal falls into that category. The idea of letting soccer into croke park would not be for once-off games. Yes the European championships would have been a once-off but at a time of year when they use their stadium quite heavily. Under UEFA regulations no games would have been allowed for at least one-month prior to the first game there. Also no games during the competition. That's a full 2 months when the stadium would likely have been used somewhere between 4 and 8 times a month by the gaa themselves.

The other major problem is residents. That is something the GAA have no control over. I've previously stated that the residents in the area are far more likely to be soccer fans and would welcome soccer matches there (as they'd probably get free tickets). But wouldn't that be a bit hypocritical on their part seeing as they want less matches there?

Qadhafi

I dont think any one would be seriously considering putting a running track inside a stadium. If the stadium was built in Abbotstown this amenity could be added a later stage(outside!)

Just because the GAA might let soccer and rubgy use their grounds at some stage in the future doesnt mean soccer/rugby dont need a home of their own.

Remember the private sector would built us a brand new 80,000 stadium for free if we let them set up a casino or something like that. Or what about multiannual budgeting?

I dont think there is going to be any cash this year for a stadium

nlgbbbblth

Originally posted by Doctor J


SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL TEAM

It's horrible to see so many Irish people wearing English teams jerseys, ensuring English football teams have modern stadia paid for in part by Irish money. F*ck Man Utd, Liverpool, Leeds, Arsenel and all the rest. Buy a Bohs jersey, buy a Shels jersey, buy a Pats jersey. Go see some League Of Ireland football. Put your money into Irish football, rather than your money paying for a better English national team. All money that goes to English teams means the English FA is better off.

Put Irish money into Irish teams and the money will work it's way up so that Irish sporting organisations can afford their own stadia [/B]

don't forget Celtic in that rant
they may not be English but they are certainly not Irish

nlgbbbblth

Reason GAA don't have a problem with American Football is that rugby and soccer have perceived as "British"/"English" sports - i.e the preserve of the hated enemy

Doctor J

Originally posted by nlgbbbblth
don't forget Celtic in that rant
they may not be English but they are certainly not Irish

Duly noted.

dRNk SAnTA

I think its wrong of people to say 'If the GAA won't let us into their stadium, we won't let them into ours!' because you might remember right before the last annual GAA meeting Bertie donated 30 odd million euro to the GAA as a way of bribing them to vote no to allowing foreign sports into Croker. He also stopped the FAI from going ahead with Eircom Park because he promised them a place in the new national stadium.

However the FAI (or at least the Chief Exec) thought their stadium could be built for something like 95 million euro/pounds, which honestly can't have been a realistic goal and I think was why he lost a lot of support on the board of the FAI.

Anyway thats all in the past, and the fact is that now we have a beautiful 80,000 seater stadium sitting empty for half the year (the half in which most of the rugby and soccer games are played)
and our solution is that we should build another 80,000 seater stadium? so that it can sit empty for the other part of the year?

Imagine if Croke Park opened its doors, and a new 35-50,000 seat stadium was built say, at Lansdowne Road (maybe not possible but that would be perfect). Large games such as Ireland V England/France in rugby, important soccer qualifying games, the GAA finals and anything that will draw the crowds be played in croke park. And for the games such as Ireland V Estonia in soccer or Ireland V Romania in rugby, Ladies GAA games, anything which won't draw more than 55,000 people be played in the smaller stadium. Theres nothing worse than a half full 80,000 seater stadium, theres no atmosphere, its horrible.

Small stadiums don't have to be bad, I think lots of irish people have a mentality that small stadiums = lansdowne road, big stadiums = cardiff etc. But there have been some beautiful small stadiums built. All you have to do is look at St Jacobs Park in Basel where Ireland recently lost to the Swiss, that was a beautiful 35,000 seater stadium.

The matter of location is just a matter of opinion I suppose. I don't like the idea of Abbotstown because its too far away from the city center. Where would all the fans go for pints afterwards? I would love to see them make use of the lansdowne site because having both stadiums so close to the city center is perfect I think. And the cork/tipp suggestion? let me just nip that in the bud right now, dublin is the capital with over a million people, who wants to go to tipp?

Oh yeh, sorry if I've totally stolen the suggestions in this post from posts i've read previously, I've definitely heard these suggestions before somewhere.

The Muppet

the fact is that now we have a beautiful 80,000 seater stadium

The fact is the GAA have a beautiful 80,000 seater stadium.

Qadhafi

St Jacobs Park looks class, if they could build something like that, or maybe 55,000/65,000 in landsdowne road it would be the business. take a look at all those CHEAP portugese stadia ! we could do with one or 2 of them

bizmark

Did I see somewhere a stadium where a whole stand can move in or out? (Stade de France maybe)

Crist only know's how much a Stade de france type stadium would cost to build here .....


Anyway we need a 50,000 - 60,000 seater stadium In dublin seeming most thing's are built their anyway's and they have (or will have) the road's/mass transit that Cork city or limrick etc wouldnt have

Landsdown wont be useful for much longer so the goverment better put the finger out and start building 18,000 is but a fart in the wind compeared to how many people want to support our lad's in nearly all game's they play ....24,000 showed up just to watch them play canada