plasma or projector?

yankinlk

Trying to decide on the best gift to myself this xmas. Just wondering if anyone else has done much research into these things.

I have the loan of a projector, a fairly good one by Hitachi. It gives me a 6- 8 foot screen in my living room, and with the surround sound its just like being in the cinema.

The only drawback i find is the fact that it needs to be used in pretty good darkness. Would i be better going for a 42" Plasma? Sacraficing on size but making up for on using under any lighting conditions.

And of course the best question, what to go for and where to buy?

Fallschirmjager

Well maybe i can help with the projector stuff. i dont have a plasma so cant give any advice

first the good news

1. projectors need it darker not dark (IMHO) if you get it at a reasonable ansi lumens. try anf get as high as you can but the old days of a room having to looks like the arse end of pluto before you see anything are gone.

2. the screen size as you saw is huge and thats a big winner for me. you can create you own homw cinema, not with a large screen ...a real cinema

3. you will hear a load of cobblers about lamp life. ok, yes in the 1980,90's , not now. most lamps last 2-3 thousand hours. now check yours out and check the cost of replacement lamp. i dont think 200 euro (thats my cost) every 2-3 years is too bad. also the lamp time increases or descreases depending on how bright you have the lamp


and the list goes on....also you will find a difference between crt,lcd and dlp. mine is lcd. but like all things the more you spend the better generally they get.

also , dont do what i have done, DO get it wired up to your ceiling or whatever....

bad news

i (IMHO) dont believe you can get rid of your tv. now thats just me but the quality of tv signal spread over a large screen leaves a reduction in quality. and your eyes notice it after a while. admittingly you can reduce the screen size and it will go away but it is somethign you should be aware of.

they need maintenance. you will need to clear the vents and very dusty environments can cause some problems, i.e. dust in between the lamp and the lcd.

finally....
i personally use a cheap tv for tv and then when the movie moment arrives.. well i think a projector wins...but each to his own. i think the benefit of plasma is that you can get a good tv that gives excellent tv and good cinema. the benefit of projector is that you have excellent cinema and average/poor tv.

hope this help but it is just my opinion

regards


ps you could look at rear projection tvs. i have not looked in a while but their screens get pretty large and a si recall they are getting cheaper now...but you would need to talk to someone who has one (and i dont)....

good luck to you..

slave1

my choice was 42 plasma or 44 rear projection
went for Sony 44 rear and very happy, DO NOT read into people who post replies and say you cant see these screens of you are either side, screen burn etc etc, load of rubbish most often from people who hav'nt got one
why spend over the odds on a plasma when you can get so much with a rear pro,
audition in a decent shop where you can bench against your other options, your personal taste will decide

muffen

I have the pioneer AE-300 projector. Gives me a 100inch screen. Feed progressive NTSC into it, and the picture is amazing.

Ofcourse, all my other equipment (DVD player and xbox) outputs progressive NTSC.

TV looks alright, a Pro-v for 300 euros would convert the TV signal to progressive NTSC (pro-v is a converter that will convert anything to progressive NTSC) and give an amazing picture. However, as I never watch TV (cant stand the adverts, I watch TV maybe 30min a week), I never bothered buying the pro-v.

Unless they are going to make 100inch TVs for 2000 euros, I'm NEVER swapping back.

banbutcher

allo muffen,
i was wonderin how much the projctor costed you?? etc etc...
cheers
Dickie

muffen

i was wonderin how much the projctor costed you?? etc etc...

I bought it from www.hificomponents.de ... I think it costed somewhere around 2000 when I bought it, and its actually down to 1500 now.

The only thing you need after getting the projector is a screen. I'd recommend making your own screen, as "real" screens are really expensive. avsforum has lots of tips on how to make one... personally I used a piece of this wood that I painted... I used grey colour (very lightgrey). This makes the black more black, and you can't see it at all on the white colour.

Its a cheap projector, and a really good one, but you have to feed it the right signal (progressive NTSC) or it looks crap. Basically, get a pro-v for about 300, or make sure that anything connected to the projector can output progressive NTSC. BTW, if you connect everything through a PC, you will get the absolutely best picture (if you configure it all right). I found this to be a hassle though, and I didn't want a noisy PC in my livingroom.

muffen

btw, if you wanna look at the pro-v, you can check this site: http://www.av-sales.com/html/prov_plus.html

Apperantly there is a plus variant of it now, and it costs 119GBP, with the builtin TV tuner. I couldn't find the one without a TV tuner, but there should be one.

Calibos

I've got an AE300 too but don't feed it progressive NTSC and it still doesn't look like crap! :rolleyes: . It looks the business!

All my equipment is PAL interlaced and tbh I think the internal scaler of the PJ does a fine job. Personally I wouldn't be bothered getting a pro-V and while I've been waiting for Pal progressive for years, now that it has actually arrived I don't know if I'd be bothered upgrading my DVD player to a Pal progressive one.

All my gear bar my PS2 (via S-Video) is hooked up to the PJ via RGB Scart (AE300 has a Scart socket!) through a Quintro+ 4:1 Scart switcher

ie through switcher--NTL Digital STB(RGB), Sony NS305 DVD(RGB), Sony SLV700 VHS(composite), XBOX(RGB), Gamecube(RGB)

Heres some Pics:

muffen

I've got an AE300 too but don't feed it progressive NTSC and it still doesn't look like crap!

I thought the same until I got my Harman-Kardon DVD 25 (converts anything to progressive NTSC). It was really a "WOW" experience. I thought it was nice before, but when that projector gets a progressive signal, its just perfect

I'd still say it's worth investing in the pro-v. It's not very expensive in comparison to the projector etc... and when you're spending all that money, might aswell go full out

Matt Simis

I had an older projector, but sold it for a Panasonic 42" Plasma (stick to NEC, Panasonic or Pioneer for plasmas, avoid Sony).

The benefits of the Plasma are:


- 100% Uptime- They last around 35,000 hrs. No need to confine your big screen viewing to DVDs as you dont need to worry about lamp life and so on. A Plasma replaces a TV, a projector complements it.

- More flexible inputs. Although not a big deal with new projectors, Plasmas are generally more forgiving and plentiful in regards inputs. For instance a lot of projectors accept only Progressive Scan on Component inputs or cannot switch back and forth from Interlaced. The Panasonic Plasma can display either with no problems. Plasma's generally have more inputs as well. Everything I have but the Sky Digibox (RGB to Svideo) is connected via component or VGA. To get HDTV resolutions and PS support you cannot use "scart" RGB, only component\VGA.

- Excellent image quality, regardless of lighting in the room. Viewable from extreme angles

- Progressive Scan (not on Sony "ALIS" and other such models). Except ALIS models, all Plasmas are progressive scan and will give considerably better image quality than Rear Projection TVs* (which are great value, dont get me wrong). Obviously more "forward" projectors are PS too, so this is a moot point when comparing Projectors and Plasmas head to head.

- May be a concern, but Plasmas look vastly superior than any other image replication system and "make" a room. They are also considerably neater.


I would say the best "home cinema" setup would consist of both a Projector and a Plasma, as I dont believe the two should competing against one another.

If you are going for a Plasma, Id recommend Richersounds.ie. About 2K cheaper for the same quality of screen than anywhere retail in ROI.


Matt


PS: Ignore the half truths and BS from those that claim to be knowledgable and talk about "refilling" plasmas every X years. Thats complete crap. Its also BS that Plasmas only last 3 years, they last upto 20 depending on use.
*Certain Toshiba RPTVs support PS now. However, they are quite pricey and finding one is difficult. Their resolution is also suspect.

muffen

100% Uptime- They last around 35,000 hrs. No need to confine your big screen viewing to DVDs as you dont need to worry about lamp life and so on. A Plasma replaces a TV, a projector complements it.

Well, 5000 hours on the AE-300, and a new lamp is less than 200euros. Nothing worth worrying about there... I watch TV on the projector exclusively.

More flexible inputs. Although not a big deal with new projectors, Plasmas are generally more forgiving and plentiful in regards inputs

Ehh... I think you'll find more inputs on the ae-300 than a TV, although only one of each. However, that is more than sufficient, as you can get a scartbox or something like that. I run everything through my amplifier, so I only have one progressive in to my projector.

Progressive Scan

Supported by Pioneer projectors since AE-100.

I would say the best "home cinema" setup would consist of both a Projector and a Plasma, as I dont believe the two should competing against one another.

Actually, I think the TV is useless. I find any TV screen to be too small in comparison, and I therefor use the projector exclusively. I had both in my livingroom for a while, but the TV never got turned on even.

The one argument for the projector is the size. Once you try it, you'd never want anything else.
The price is also a big factor. You will get a good projector much cheaper than a plasma TV of only half the size.

Matt Simis

Originally posted by muffen
Well, 5000 hours on the AE-300, and a new lamp is less than 200euros. Nothing worth worrying about there... I watch TV on the projector exclusively.

Ehh... I think you'll find more inputs on the ae-300 than a TV, although only one of each. However, that is more than sufficient, as you can get a scartbox or something like that. I run everything through my amplifier, so I only have one progressive in to my projector.

Supported by Pioneer projectors since AE-100.

Actually, I think the TV is useless. I find any TV screen to be too small in comparison, and I therefor use the projector exclusively. I had both in my livingroom for a while, but the TV never got turned on even.

The one argument for the projector is the size. Once you try it, you'd never want anything else.
The price is also a big factor. You will get a good projector much cheaper than a plasma TV of only half the size.

What a totally argumentative reply. Did you even read my post or simply read enough to see someone talking positively about something that competes with "your" setup? This is why people avoid HE forums, the fear of been bitten by another rabid fanboy.

I already said most projectors support Progressive scan, I merely mentioned that there can be oddites with the support. I never said the above plus points about plasma were better than any and all projectors, that would be a stupid argument, something like you appear to be trying on. Yes, the AE-300 is a great projector, with many inputs at a decent price, but if we want to drop the thread down a level to a "mine is better than yours", then how about:

- Contrast on the AE-300 is diabolical in comparison to a mid to high end plasma
- Its introductory price was $5999, not exactly "half the price" of a plasma.
- Daylight viewing.. not everyone sits in a darkroom to watch the news.
- Long bulblife in the AE-300 or not, its still extra and regular expense and hassle.


The difference between my point of view and yours is that I actually have had projectors for years (and will get more no doubt), you dont seem to have had any Plasmas, making your critique ever so slightly biased. :rolleyes:



Matt

Calibos

TBH matt I think you are guilty of being argumentative and not muffen. He was just clearing up some inaccuracies and generalisations in your post, which I will now do too.

- Contrast on the AE-300 is diabolical in comparison to a mid to high end plasma
- Its introductory price was $5999, not exactly "half the price" of a plasma.

Contrast on the Panasonic ( rather than Pioneer Muffin! ) AE300 is 800 which is as good as your local cinema(to my eyes anyway) and on this years Higher resolution models such as the AE500 or Sanyo Z2 the contrast is rated at 1300!!

The contrast on low to mid range plasmas is 1000. Contrast may be diabolical compared to mid/high end plasmas but they are still €8000-10000+. So which is it matt, are we comparing on price or contrast??

The introductary price for the AE300 was €2000 from komplett.ie....not exactly $5999!! :D

Matt Simis

Originally posted by Calibos
TBH matt I think you are guilty of being argumentative and not muffen. He was just clearing up some inaccuracies and generalisations in your post, which I will now do too.

Contrast on the Panasonic ( rather than Pioneer Muffin! ) AE300 is 800 which is as good as your local cinema(to my eyes anyway) and on this years Higher resolution models such as the AE500 or Sanyo Z2 the contrast is rated at 1300!!

The contrast on low to mid range plasmas is 1000. Contrast may be diabolical compared to mid/high end plasmas but they are still €8000-10000+. So which is it matt, are we comparing on price or contrast??

The introductary price for the AE300 was €2000 from komplett.ie....not exactly $5999!! :D

Sigh.. I was promoting both Plasmas and projectors, how could I be arguing one way or the other?? Muffin replied to my post seemingly without reading it and took quotes out of context. Your post's only point appears to be to spread yet more FUD about Plasmas.

Contrast on the older Panasonic Plasma is 3000:1 (my one) and 4000:1 on the new model. The cost? €10K? €8K? try €4K, next day delivered to my door, with the wall bracket (€200 of that price). The price when the AE300 was introduced was $5999, I dont care what the Komplett price was, they didnt stock it at time of introduction. The price of Plasma will usually be more, Im not debating that... however its not 10x more.. :rolleyes:

Its clear neither of you are familar enough with Plasmas to be in a position to argue projectors over them (I mean for christ sake, €10k? - yeah, maybe 3 years ago). Im still the only one here who has had\have both technologies, and Im promoting each for their unique advantages, but that clearly is too radical an idea for you PJ hardcore...



Matt

Calibos

The price when the AE300 was introduced was $5999, I dont care what the Komplett price was, they didnt stock it at time of introduction

Sigh.... what are you talking about $5999. Are you talking Canadian Dollars, Australian Dollars. If so for clarity could you preface with CAD$ or AUD$. The European Panasonic list price was STG£2000. Now even bricks and mortar dealers in the UK were selling at STG£1600 from the word go. The only places you see selling for full list are official Dealers...........or PEATS of Parnell street! . Internet retailers were selling them for STG£1300-1400 (ie €2000) from launch.

Look I agree that PJ's aren't for everyone, and that for many Plasmas are the more logical purchase but for reasons of aesthetics, lack of light control, cannot accomodate a decent sized screen etc Not for reasons of picture quality (pretty close which is good goin' for a screen several feet bigger), for reasons of connectivity (same on a modern PJ as a PLasma), for running costs (€200 bulb every 3 years)

You said you've had PJ's and I don't doubt it but things have come a long way with regard to spec., features and price in the last 2 years and I think you are a little out of touch with the PJ world. I'm out of touch with regard to plasma features and price which you have correctly called me up on but likewise you are out of touch with regard to PJ features and price.

I'm not slagging plasmas BTW Like you said I'd love to have both but a PJ was the right decision for me but its not for everyone. I was merely calling you up on your outdated PJ facts and figures.

Read your own posts again. Your doing exactly what you are accusing muffin and I of doing. :rolleyes:

muffen

Pioneer, Panasonic, all the same

Nah, half my stuff is pioneer, that's why I always mix it up with the projector. I know it should be panasonic.

What a totally argumentative reply. Did you even read my post or simply read enough to see someone talking positively about something that competes with "your" setup? This is why people avoid HE forums, the fear of been bitten by another rabid fanboy.

I didn't intend to fight with you. My post was based on your following statement:

The benefits of the Plasma are...

Now, I am asuming that you were saying that those are the benefits of plasma compared to a projector. I was trying to make the point that you're wrong. All those things listed aren't benefits compared to a projector, not even compared to a really crap projector.

you dont seem to have had any Plasmas

I couldn't stop laughing when I read that, considering that you just complained about me not reading your posts.
It says in my post that I had both for a while, but ended up never using the TV.

Look, I don't really wanna argue with you (or anyone else for that matter). Internet arguing on messageboards is just plain and simple stupid. You talk **** about or to a person you know nothing about.
I never intended my first post to be the start of an argument, you decided to interpret it as such.

BTW, in regards to the price, Calibos is right. it was inttroduced at a much lower price in europe than 6000 dollars. I do however think that 6000 dollars was the introductory price in Japan. However, you don't make price comparisons based on introductory prices, you look at what you can get for your money right at this moment, in which case I'd say my statement holds true, a plasma half the size of a projector will cost more than twice the money.

Matt Simis

Actually, I have rechecked and the price was not $5999, its was $3999. I stand corrected. Also, perhaps I should have made it clearer that I wasnt comparing plasma to pjs solely, someone had mentioned how RPTVs were a better buy and two of you had heavily pushed PJs, I was merely balancing the thread.

In regards being out of touch and making generalisations about PJs, Ill admit I obviously am more on the Plasma side of things (and therefore knowledge), but I havent stated anything blatantly wrong. I agreed PJs have good image quality (tho lower contrast), PS support (Muffen totally misread that) and the necessary connections. My only criticisms were about the apparent strictness of certain inputs on many PJs, info I picked up from UK forums from people with mixed PS and interlaced sources. As far as Im aware, that is still correct.

Also, by the fact you said you'd love to have both you are flying in the face of Muffen's claims, that there was no need. Why would you like to have both?


Matt

Matt Simis

Originally posted by muffen


Actually, I think the TV is useless. I find any TV screen to be too small in comparison, and I therefor use the projector exclusively. I had both in my livingroom for a while, but the TV never got turned on even.

Is this the part you are referring to? That certainly isnt clear that the "TV" you are referring to was a Plasma, especially considering most Plasma (certainly the ones worth purchasing) dont contain any TV reciever functionality, they are merely "screens". Considering you already admitted you dont even watch TV broadcasts, its not surprising you didnt use your TV, which is not a reflection on the screen itself, moreso a reflection of your choice of entertainment.

Out of interest, whats the noise level of the AE300 like?


Matt

muffen

Calibos, I just took a closer look at your pics.
What type of screen are you using?
If you made it yourself, can you give me some instructions on how it was made?

Your setup looks really good

I like those speakers aswell, marcantz right?
I have a friend who has them, so I know they are really good.
I was going to buy them, but went for a little bit cheaper speakers in the end.

Matt:

Is this the part you are referring to? That certainly isnt clear that the "TV" you are referring to was a Plasma,

Yes, that was the part I was referring to. I guess you're right, it wasn't obvious that it was a plasma.

Out of interest, whats the noise level of the AE300 like?

Its not noticable on low setting, and it sounds like an airplane on high setting. I run mine on low always. Increases lamptime from 2000 to 5000 hours, and sounds a lot less. Also, I cannot see a noticable difference between high and low, not even in daylight. I don't know why the even keep the high-option in there, I think it's only so that the projector looks better on paper. I don't think anyone in this world runs that projector on high setting.