Fiat Punto's really that bad?

trotter_inc

Everyone knows of the FIAT (Fix It Again Tomorrow) reputation but are Fiat Puntos still really that bad?

Im thinking of buying a 2001 Fiat Punto for my first car - probably coz they're cheap, the new model looks good and have 1.2 Litre engine which will keep my insurance down (well.... under 3,500 euro)

I just want to know if anyone has had any experience with the new model of them that came out 3 years ago? Any problems with them etc...

Thanks!

Andrew Duffy

Head gasket failures and very weak acceleration above 30 or 40 (but it is a 1.2, so what can you expect). I have to repeat the head gasket failures bit though; the money you save by buying one will be eaten up by the cost of this repair, and it happens to a lot of them.

trotter_inc

Thanks Andrew - anyone else any opinions? Good or bad?

Gmodified

Between people I know they have replaced following things

Punto 99 with 20k at the time of the purchase, run for another 10k and following items needed attention
-clutch bearing
-headgasket
-ligths
-fuel gauge

another 00 35k

lacquer came off back boot lead
head gasket went
blanking plug in the cylinder block (frost plug) came off
no lights on the back
clutch went developed clicking noise
one of the sensors had be replaced

02

exhaust down pipe went(poor weld from manufacturer)
clutch went
paint fading
problems with electric power steering
break fluid leaking from front brakes

I had few Fiats and they helped me to master my mechanical skills.

trotter_inc

what do ppl recommend I buy then?

budget - 6,500 euro
engine must be 1.2L or less
want something that looks good too

Big al

98-99 Clio, the new shape came out mid 98, you should pick one up for about 5-6k

seamus

Originally posted by trotter_inc
what do ppl recommend I buy then?

budget - 6,500 euro
engine must be 1.2L or less
want something that looks good too

If you can stomach it, maybe a Ford Ka or Fiesta. Not the type of car I'd buy meself cos of the looks, but I drove a Ka for a week in the summer, and it was great craic. Very stable on the road, very light and manouverable.

trotter_inc

yeah - I was thinking about a Fiesta - they're supposed to be a great little car.

def not a Ka anyway - too girly!

Any other idea's or comments?

Jip

Puntos are not that bad, the head gasket failure only affected some models and AFAIK not the newer model that you're looking at. The qulaity jumped greatly on the mark 2 Punto compared to the mark 1. In fact the perception that Fiats are bad will benefit you, you'll get a good spec'd one for a decent price, there's lots out there.

And to contradict Andrews comments , the Fiat 1.2 engine is one of the nippiest around, it throws out 82 BHP compared to the 1.4 75 BHP or so engine in the Focus throws out.

trotter_inc

Anyone else ever had one?

Any other opinions or advice out there?

Occidental

2002 Mk2

At two weeks old, petrol tank came undone from side of the car and had to be replaced.

Will occasionaly discharge battery overnight completly. Battery replaced, but problem still occurs. Have seen the same problem on 1 other 2000 Punto.

trotter_inc

F*ck sake!!

Thats fair bad alright. Im really thinking about changing my mind now - had my heart set on one coz they look good and are cheap.

Anyone got anything good to say about them? At all?

red_ice

i think of buying cars like a bucket of KFC :]

KA
Focus/Fiesta
Civic

These are the 3 most reliable cars you can buy afaik(funny how 3 of em are ford cars!)

trotter_inc

Yeah - was thinking about a Fiesta alright - they're fairly cheap too.

The Ka is too girly and the Civic and Focus would send my insurance sky high - Im only 23 and on a provisional. Will prob get a Focus for my next car.

Thanks for tip though red_ice.

Anyone else any advice?

Andrew Duffy

The standard 1.2 is only 60 (ish) bhp, the 16 valve is 82 and much quicker. Insurance for the 16 valve is much higher. Oh, my mother had a head gasket failure in a new model 1.2 8 valve Punto, and in a 1.2 16 valve Stilo.

trotter_inc

Thanks Andrew.

"bhp" is break horse power - right? Thats the power in the acceleration is it?

Sorry - havent a clue about cars! Must say though that boards is great for questions like this.

Andrew Duffy

Yup. It's the peak horsepower measured at the wheels. Trucks and the like normally have horsepower measured at the engine drive shaft, which gives an incomparable figure. The power-to-weight ratio of a car is really what determines how fast it accelerates; a feather-light Morgan with a 130Bhp engine will tear up a three-ton Bentley with 500Bhp. Also important is at what kind of revolutions per second the engine can deliver peak or near-peak performance - high output at low revs can mean very good acceleration from a standing start, and is also important for jeeps and towing heavy trailers.

JHMEG

honda are a league ahead of ford in terms of reliability...

trotter_inc, if you want reliable get a jap car, or at a push the old model golf 1.4 (it's so slow you can't do damage and hence insurance is cheap)...

and yes, Fiats really are that bad...

(Andrew-- peak power is usually measured at the fly-wheel, not the road wheels: upto 40% of power can get lost thru the transmission, so manufacturers quote the higher fly-wheel value)

Gmodified

Civic will definitely kill you on insurance. Small jap car or maybe POLO?

trotter_inc

yeah - was thinking of a Polo too but they only come in a 1L or 1.4L. My driving instructor told me not to get a 1L coz Il be driving from Limerick to Wicklow most weekends.

Is he right to advise me of this?

trotter_inc

How about the 1.1L Peugeot 206's that came out in 1999?

What are they supposed to be like?

JHMEG

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/prog16/survey_137.shtml

Placed 121st out of 137 cars in Topgear Readers Survey

puntosporting

A lot of the headgasket failures on punto`s is to do with the owners using water as a coolant they dont run water as a coolant but for some reason a lot of people insist on filling them with water???
I have owned a 01 sporting and had 0 issues was actualy a great little car for what it was much more fun to drive than any 206!
I currently own a 1.8 hgt punto and have had no reliability issues with this either so from my experiance fiat puntos have proved reliable!

Andrew Duffy

[off topic]
Forget most of what I said about horsepower; I must have been tired. High torque at low revs is what is important for standing start acceleration; but since horsepower is torque * rpm / some number (5225 comes to mind) that won't give particularly high horsepower, but you'll still be able to pull that tractor out of the ditch. I also messed up the difference between brake horsepower and shaft horsepower (which are the same) with the difference between bhp and effective horsepower, which is the power after transmission.
[/off topic]

back on-topic, I know none of the Fiat engines with gasket trouble I came across ever had water put in them, unless it was by a garage (unlikely, I hope). They were all 1.2s though. I suppose it would be easy enough to mistake the blue coolant for antifreeze-laden water though. That's probably fairly close to what it is as well.

RicardoSmith

Well the more powerful engine the better it will be for overtaking. That said I'm doing 100 miles a day in a 1.0 and to be honest I haven't found it a problem. Most drivers make it so hard to overtake these days that I rarely bother, unless they are doing 40 or less and I know I have a clear road ahead, or I know the road really well. As a new driver I'd be encouraging you to stay away from bigger engined cars until you have more experience.

The Ka and the Fiesta are fine and nice to drive. Cheap repairs and parts. Away from main dealers at least. Don't knock the Micra either as its one of the few cars with a 1.0 and that means cheaper insurance, tax etc. But I hate the looks even though I'm driving one at the moment. The Seat Ibiza are a good cheap car. But like most 1.0's other than the Micra are very sluggish. In the Micra its a zippy motor, its quite amusing embrassing bigger engined cars with it. Polo is expensive and VW aren't that reliable anyway. Seat is a good compromise. Hondas are great but insurance is huge but parts and servicing are v.expensive too. Fiats are ok, they are a lot better than they used to be. But aparently the dealers aren't great. Opel Corsa are good value too. They get slagged, but Lotus helped design the suspension and they are nice to drive. The fiesta gets my vote though. The 1.25 Zetec is a great engine, and its cheap and fun to drive.

At the end of the day a snall engined car is about economy and low cost. Don't lose track of that.

unkel

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Well the more powerful engine the better it will be for overtaking

Nope, Andrew Duffy had it right second time around: torque is what makes your car accelerate

Did you know that a modest Golf 1.9 TDI (150) has more of it than a Merc S320, Audi TT Coupe 1.8T 225 BHP QUATTRO or a Porsche Boxster S (This is the much faster model than the standard Boxster and costs €90k)

My m8 was a bit upset when he was very quicly overtaken by a Passat TDI pulling away into the distance while he was driving his tuned Alfa 156

On topic again - sorry:

The nippiest 1.0 liters available for your budget are the Toyota Yaris and Nissan Micra. I would advise a Micra as Yaris are very dear second hand. Just live with the looks (if you don't like them) for a year or two. Make sure you get your license asap. You won't be spending any money on the thing breaking down, and you'll be saving on tax/insurance/petrol so you will have the money saved for a better car that won't break the bank on insurance :cool:

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by unkel
Nope, Andrew Duffy had it right second time around: torque is what makes your car accelerate

Did you know that a modest Golf 1.9 TDI (150) has more of it than a Merc S320, Audi TT Coupe 1.8T 225 BHP QUATTRO or a Porsche Boxster S (This is the much faster model than the standard Boxster and costs €90k)......

Its also about lots of things not just torque. How fast it can deliver the torque also power to weight ratio, grip, traction and weight distribution. I've driven VW 1.9 TDI's 150 and the Boxster S and your living in cuckoo land if you think the VW will even see which way the Boxster S went. For starters the VW is front wheel drive the the boxster is mid engined and rear wheel drive. Trust me theres light years in the difference.

The reason the Passat overtook the Alfa was because your mate a rubbish driver and the Alfa's wheels had fallen off. ....Again...:D

trotter_inc

Went looking at cars last night - what do ye think of the Rover 200's?

They're a lovely car inside and out - whats Rovers reputation like?

Thanks for this help btw.

Doctor J

If I had a choice betwwen a Fiat and a Rover, I'd choose a Fiat, no question. Rover are abysmal and I know how bad Fiat are .

I just bought a Hyundai Getz, I had looked at the Punto, Fiesta, Clio, Yaris, Corsa, Ibiza, Polo, Micra, 206, C3, Liana, etc etc etc

It's not a fashionable make, but it's a really nice car, plus I'd have had to pay €5000 more to get the same spec on a Polo.

I think you should steer towards a Yaris. They're built to last, even though they're incredibly dull on the inside. It's a car, you use it to get somewhere else, the Yaris will do that reliably and efficiently. There are too many horror stories about the Fiats.

puntosporting

Actualy the hyundai is a nice little motor for what it is and should prove to be super reliable!

Atomic Pineapple

I own a Fiesta meself, great car to drive, sweet acceleration on it.
did have a few problems with bushels, fog lights breaking, handbrake failing, and lots of rattles! although the bushels and handbrake were my fault, drove it a bit hard on **** roads and pulled the handbrake a little too hard when i got thick one day

Would definatly recommend it as a starter car, 1.3 zetec engine is decent and the insurance isnt too bad, own a 01 version which i dont think looks too bad, looks nice with oz super t alloys, although i hate the older versions.

mines a 01 silver fiesta and was valued at €7000 there today when i was looking at a trade in, am sure ya could get one for around €6000, theres a couple of them around that in CBG.

What about a Mitsubishi Colt?
I think there nice enough looking cars, come in 1.3 cant imagine the insurance being too much.