DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

byrnefm

Hmm... while I'm happy to see that DAB is back on the air again, I'm not so impressed that RTÉ have reduced the bit rates for their stations... I wonder why have they done so? It isn't as if the stations they're transmitting are taking up the entire MUX. I hope they aren't following the UK's example! Oh well, I guess it's better than not transmitting at all ... to the dozen of us that can receive the transmissions

L1011

Working great here in Maynooth. Didn't have the gear during the last tests, so no idea if thats any different than before :P

david23

Surely it would make far more sense for RTÉ to launch commercially with MPEG4 AAC+ coding, as the new radios that decode these services will be available from next year.

I believe New Zealand is currently testing with MPEG1 Layer 2 but they plan to launch with the new AAC+ standard, provisionally titled DAB+. France, Germany, Australia and Sweden will also be using the new standard I believe.

lawhec

Reading between the lines, it looks RTÉ have the Three Rock DAB transmitter back up and running again with reduced bitrates on all services with the intention of possibly (a) running simulcast AAC+ services in the near future and/or (b) continuing on with DAB-IP trials.

Oh, and nothing up here.:(

byrnefm

I wonder what the "RTÉ Test" station will be used for? It's 96kbps stereo - I didn't realize until then that you could have a stereo station at such a low bitrate! When I tune it in, all I hear is a low buzzing sound. (The AM Simulcast, on the other hand, is mute). If a station was to transmit in AAC+, would the current DAB receivers try to decode it (incorrectly) or just display the name and leave it mute?
(Then again, in N. Lincolnshire, LBC is broadcast at 48kbps mono)...

Is there any hope that Truskmore will get DAB? I have a DAB set which receives from Brougher Mountain but i would like to get the Irish stations as well!

byrnefm

zorro2566 wrote:

Is there any hope that Truskmore will get DAB? I have a DAB set which receives from Brougher Mountain but i would like to get the Irish stations as well!

I don't know but I am hoping so (I often travel up to Donegal)! However, I suspect that the current RTÉ setup is another trial and unless RTÉ plan on launching a service in the next few months, I don't think it'll be rolled out any further - certainly no news of it anyway.

It would be nice to know what RTÉ's plans are regarding this - will they wait a few months more and go with DAB with AAC or go ahead shortly anyway? After the GE06 conference, I think we have more than enough channels for the country now, although RTÉ would have to switch off VHF TV first before they'd be free for radio. I think it's interesting that it's back on air in December - maybe a 'warming up' period for something in the New Year?

byrnefm

I just spotted this on the RTÉ.ie webpage concerning digital broadcasting:

http://www.rte.ie/radio/dab.html

Excerpt:

RTÉ believes that DAB represents the future of terrestrial radio in Ireland. RTÉ Radio 1, RTÉ 2fm, RTÉ lyric fm and RTÉ Raidio Na Gaeltachta are currently going out on the DAB multiplex 12C in Dublin and the North east. The services were launched on Thursday, November 30th.

and

The added value of this recent technology for radio listeners is the provision of new services alongside the existing fm stations. RTÉ is actively considering the provision of such services in 2007 which will make buying a digital radio a far more attractive proposition. So as well as picking up the four RTÉ radio stations, a Dab radio listener may be able to get as many as 10 new digital services in the coming year.

So it's definitely not a test any longer! The part about making it digital "a far more attractive option" could be further enhanced by providing better coverage, though

DMC

Indeed, good news that it looks like its here to stay. I just hope that dual DAB standards with AAC+ radios come on the market in H1 2007, so that we dont have a 405/625 issue in the years to come.

Foggy43

DMC!
I wasn't quite sure what you meant by AAC+ but I looked it up and got the answer. We discussed this before and I am sure you were not happy with the UK DAB audio quality. It may have been Ulsterman 1690.

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1942267,00.html

Hopefully RTE will not use the same system as the DAB in the UK and DAB Radio manafacturers will produce the newly agreed standard receivers to be sold in Ireland. I might have to have a few words with Mr Roberts here in the UK and see what they plan to release. I will probably get a more favourable response from Mr Sangean! Come to think of it Sangean is American .....maybe not!

Comreg got any say in this?

DMC

Umm, RTÉ are using the MP2 codec, the same as UK DAB broadcasts. All UK DAB radios on the market currently are MP2 only.

Thats why I'm hoping that manufacturers will start getting AAC+ codec enabled receivers, along with MP2 on the shelf, just as DAB broadcasting starts on a formal footing here, so if down the line to increase the amount of stations available, without loss of sound quality

Foggy43

DMC!
Where I am loosing the plot here is the Codec. As you say RTE are using the same system to broadcast as in the UK.
How can the audio quality be improved? Will the audio quality improve should you have a receiver with the new world standard alone without any change to the transmisson.
I think you are saying the more radio stations that become available will lead to a drop in audio quality.

Sorry but I am really not up to speed on all of this!

SPDUB

byrnefm wrote:

I just spotted this on the RTÉ.ie webpage concerning digital broadcasting:

http://www.rte.ie/radio/dab.html

So it's definitely not a test any longer! The part about making it digital "a far more attractive option" could be further enhanced by providing better coverage, though

Another way would be to provide some of the BBC services but they seem to have set their mind against that

.....there are no plans to provide digital broadcasts of BBC radio services in the republic.

The only advantage of this situation is that they can keep the bit rate higher with fewer stations

DMC

Molly Dawson wrote:

DMC!
I think you are saying the more radio stations that become available will lead to a drop in audio quality.

Thats what exists at present. With the improved AAC+ codec, you can squeeze in more stations at lower bitrates, but the big difference is, the sound quality will be like what you would've got at a higher bit rate using the old system.

For instance, the same sound quality heard on a 192kpbs stream using MP2 could be done using 96kbps using AAC+ (that's if I have the equivalent comparison correct!)

Foggy43

DMC!

Thank you for the info.

watty

SPDUB wrote:

Another way would be to provide some of the BBC services but they seem to have set their mind against that



The only advantage of this situation is that they can keep the bit rate higher with fewer stations

The actual RTE people doing the DAB wanted to add BBBC (small cost) but the RTE TOP management vetoed it on commercial grounds (competition to RTE1).

This is why DAB network MUST be taken off RTE. They should not be allowed to manage it purely for their own gain.

byrnefm

Now, how long will it be before the commercial stations take an interest, I wonder? I believe 12A is also allocated for all-(Rep of) Ireland? I presume that the new DAB allocations received at GE06 won't be usable until the TV stations are moved off VHF. Until some more stations come on-air, or that RTÉ start adding new stations, there is no reason why anyone would buy a DAB radio here at present. Maybe Aldi / Lidl will start selling some, too (like they do in the UK from time to time)?

I also share DMC's concerns in that I hope that RTÉ will start testing the AAC+ codec soon - assuming that, of course, the newer DAB radios do come on the market as soon (ie. those software-upgradeable to AAC+, at a minimum). Maybe by the time RTÉ have a nationwide rollout of DAB? (At least they actually state that they plan on rolling out their services nationwide).

SPDUB

watty wrote:

The actual RTE people doing the DAB wanted to add BBBC (small cost) but the RTE TOP management vetoed it on commercial grounds (competition to RTE1).

This is why DAB network MUST be taken off RTE. They should not be allowed to manage it purely for their own gain.

Why are the Government allowing RTE in this case to have control when in the case of DTT they went out of their way , to the extent of delaying the start of DTT , to make sure RTE weren't in control

watty

Because RTE wanted Gov. money for DTT, EU likes stuf to be privatised and competitive so Gov. had a master plan, but the DTT scheme didn't work. RTE seemly isn't begging fo rlots of dish to get DAB running, So thev've got the nod & wink, seening as the DTT way hasn't worked.

byrnefm

I decided to try out the AM Simulcast this morning, as RTÉ 1 on AM has Mass while RTÉ 1 FM doesn't at 11am. The AM Simulcast on DAB is still silent! However, RTÉ Test is transmiting this morning at 128kbit stereo (it used to say 96kbit stereo). I don't know what station it is, though, that they're re-broadcasting - it isn't any I can pick up on the FM band in Stillorgan. It just seems to be various pop music songs.

byrnefm

Another small update: Today FM is now on the RTÉ DAB Mux (did a rescan last night and discovered there was now a seventh station). It's also at 128kbit stereo.

White Horse

Clermont Carn must be back on air beacuse my BBC dab reception is shagged. :mad:

Oh well. Back to satellite and FM for the BBC.

DMC

Its a pity you cant tell the difference between CC and 3R on DAB, as I'd really like to know which is which!

Getting strong indoor reception in North Meath, and I have heard vaguely indie sounding music on the Test channel.

DMC

RTÉ's DAB offering is on the air one year today. I can't believe it was this day last year I was mad enough to go up the Dublin Mountains

fta keith

This question may have been answered

If I buy an DAB radio in the UK will I pick up the Irish radio channels rte & today fm etc, would you pick up also some of the bbc digital radio channels

waiguoren

Any DAB receiver bought in the UK will receive the Irish DAB transmissions if it's used within the broadcast area. It won't pick up DAB from the North or the UK unless you're in the hills or have a good external areal. Here in Dublin 2, I can receive BBC Radios 1 to 5 and Classic FM on FM on my Onkyo 505 DAB receiver. The signals are coming from someone's NTL cable and not from the North or the UK and have a bit of hiss. I only get the Irish multiplex on DAB. I'm getting my Morphy Richards DRM radio at the weekend so will see if I can pick up anything on that.

DMC

waiguoren wrote:

I can receive BBC Radios 1 to 5 and Classic FM on FM on my Onkyo 505 DAB receiver. The signals are coming from someone's NTL cable and not from the North or the UK and have a bit of hiss. I only get the Irish multiplex on DAB.

And that's just on the FM band, not DAB leakage from NTL.

waiguoren wrote:

I'm getting my Morphy Richards DRM radio at the weekend so will see if I can pick up anything on that.

Interested to hear what you get, do report back.

waiguoren

I got the DRM radio at the weekend and used it in Manchester for a few hours. I'm quite impressed so far... got Radio Luxembourg, CVC and DW. I've used it for about 15 minutes in Dublin but mixed results. Luxy keeps cutting out as does the BBC WS. All the Irish DAB stations appear in the station list together with their FM counterparts - this didn't happen in Manchester but I think that is down to the Irish DAB stations have 'DAB' at the end of their names. I will use it more this week and report back. If anyone is in Dublin and wants to see it then let me know. I'm aware this is a bit off topic... should we set up a new thread for DRM in Ireland?

Zaphod

Broadcaster to start six digital radio channels

RTE is expected to launch up to six new digital radio channels within the next three months.

It is understood that one station, Bubble, will be aimed at two- to 12-year-olds, while another, X, will be focused solely on indie music.

There will also be a channel catering to the tastes of older listeners, one for drama and arts, and another that will play archived material from RTE's vaults.

The national broadcaster yesterday declined to go into detail on the content of any of the channels, or the launch date, which is expected in March or April.

RTE went live with a Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) service in Dublin and the north east of the country late last year. Radio One, 2fm, Lyric and Raidio na Gaeltachta are currently available on the service.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1754224&issue_id=15110

Mossy Monk

good stuff. the archived material station sounds interesting