DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

Ulsterman 1690

Sounds like RTE are making the same mistake as the Beeb -trying to squeeze too many services onto one multiplex

Unless theyre getting a second multiplex (or the new services are only part time)

byrnefm

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Sounds like RTE are making the same mistake as the Beeb -trying to squeeze too many services onto one multiplex

Unless theyre getting a second multiplex (or the new services are only part time)

Two interesting points - the first is definitely true: it's probably why they launched with main channels being broadcast at (an avg of) 128kbit/s. I wonder if there are even suggestions of having a second multiplex? I guess it's very early days yet - the 'me too' factor won't kick in for a bit!

SPDUB

Also sounds like they are trying to occupy the channels so no one else can use them eg BBC

david23

Have RTÉ confirmed that they are using MP2? I think France, Sweden and some other countries are launching DAB using MPEG4 AAC/AAC+ in 2007 and sets that receive AAC+ broadcasts will be available from the Spring.

For me it doesn't make sense to cram 9 MP2 stations on a mux (with some of them in mono) and have the same audio quality problems as the BBC when Ireland can learn from the UK's mistakes and get it right from the start.

In response to SPDUB, if RTÉ own the mux I suppose they have the right to fill it with their own stations and they are unlikely to allow rivals such as the BBC to broadcast on there, especially with the popular BBC Radio 2 and BBC Radio 4 networks which could erode RTÉ's audiences.

SPDUB

david23 wrote:

In response to SPDUB, if RTÉ own the mux I suppose they have the right to fill it with their own stations and they are unlikely to allow rivals such as the BBC to broadcast on there, especially with the popular BBC Radio 2 and BBC Radio 4 networks which could erode RTÉ's audiences.

Well that might stand up for BBC Radio 2 , but for long periods of the day Radio 1 are broadcasting music which means for instance in my case that I'm listening to no radio from RTE but will be listening to BBC Radio 4 or WS

byrnefm

david23 wrote:

Have RTÉ confirmed that they are using MP2? I think France, Sweden and some other countries are launching DAB using MPEG4 AAC/AAC+ in 2007 and sets that receive AAC+ broadcasts will be available from the Spring.

I think there's a bit more to it than that, unfortunately - AAC+ upgradeable sets will be available from late Spring, I believe (well, the chipsets will be, anyway) but AFAIK, the formalities of the new AAC+ standard in DAB won't be resolved until the autumn, at the earliest. (Note - I'm all for the new AAC+ format!). I guess RTÉ didn't want to postpone the launch of DAB any later than necessary, although hopefully they'll move over to AAC+ quickly. It'll be interesting to see how much they advertise their new services over the coming months...

waiguoren

According to Morphy Richards, their latest DAB/DRM receiver is upgradable to receive AAC+ DAB broadcasts: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/

I've been able to get some of the DRM (Shortwave) stations on the Morphy Richards but I experience frequent dropouts: BBC WS, CVC, Radio Luxembourg, RTL, Vatican Radio. I've not been able to get anything on the DRM Medium Wave bands - I guess Dublin is too far away.

Any news on adding an Electronic Programme Guide (EPG) to the DAB stations on the RTE Multiplex? There wasn't one when I last checked

Are there plans to introduce TV for mobile phones on the RTE Multiplex (I think I may have read it somewhere)? In the UK Digital One broadcasts 8 radio stations plus several TV stations. Of the 8 radio stations broadcast on Digital One, 5 of them are mono- Oneword, theJazz, Core, Capital Life and Core - 3 of these are music stations. Capital Life and Core were previously broadcast in stereo before the TV stations were added and theJazz launched.

DMC

Listening to DAB today, I hear WRN or NPR on the RTE Test channel, on the newly renamed "DAB Ireland Mux1"

david23

byrnefm wrote:

I think there's a bit more to it than that, unfortunately - AAC+ upgradeable sets will be available from late Spring, I believe (well, the chipsets will be, anyway) but AFAIK, the formalities of the new AAC+ standard in DAB won't be resolved until the autumn, at the earliest. (Note - I'm all for the new AAC+ format!). I guess RTÉ didn't want to postpone the launch of DAB any later than necessary, although hopefully they'll move over to AAC+ quickly. It'll be interesting to see how much they advertise their new services over the coming months...

The French are about to start testing DAB with AAC+ and ETSI are due to ratify it by the Spring, so IMO it doesn't make sense for Ireland to commercially launch with MP2. Even some of the broadcasters in the UK, such as the BBC, Channel 4 and Digital One are trying to lobby the regulator Ofcom to let them upgrade their DAB broadcasts to AAC+.

byrnefm

david23 wrote:

The French are about to start testing DAB with AAC+ and ETSI are due to ratify it by the Spring, so IMO it doesn't make sense for Ireland to commercially launch with MP2. Even some of the broadcasters in the UK, such as the BBC, Channel 4 and Digital One are trying to lobby the regulator Ofcom to let them upgrade their DAB broadcasts to AAC+.

I just read about the first part of what you mentioned on Wohnort's website this morning. The only thing I can think of is for them to try to transition to AAC+ asap, once receivers become a bit more readily available later this year (in time for the Christmas market?). Of course, even if they did change over by Christmas, all those who have bought radios on account of these new channels would not be happy bunnies! Ok, maybe not that many but enough to give the system bad press. I'm very curious to know what RTÉ's plan of action is on all this... Of course, we don't even know if they even plan on using AAC+, either...

BigMoose

byrnefm wrote:

Of course, even if they did change over by Christmas, all those who have bought radios on account of these new channels would not be happy bunnies! Ok, maybe not that many but enough to give the system bad press.

I think the UK broadcasters have to be very careful here. The BBC and various commercial stations (e.g. ClassicFM) have been heavily pushing Digital Radio as this great new technology and a fairly significant number of people have spent money on new radios etc. So to be told your new improved better technology is obsolete in under a year would be hugely damaging to the digital radio industry. Who would then go out and buy an AAC+ with the likelyhood of someone coming up with an even better standard 5 mins later when their FM radio has lasted 20+ years?

Its a problem for Ireland as for DAB to be a success, large numbers of people have to use it. For that to happen equipment has to be as cheap and accessable as possible. Unfortunately the closest big market to Ireland is the UK and with the number of UK stores here selling the same product lines as they do in the UK could be a real problem if Ireland adopt a different technology (see the PC World thread).

byrnefm

BigMoose wrote:

Unfortunately the closest big market to Ireland is the UK and with the number of UK stores here selling the same product lines as they do in the UK could be a real problem if Ireland adopt a different technology (see the PC World thread).

They [the UK chains] would have to be careful in what they're selling, though such examples exist already where it does work out - UK TVs typically not having VHF, for example but they do here. DAB radios which support AAC+ are also supposed to support MPEG-2 (it's an additional codec to the basic MPEG-2 codec), so in theory, all radios which would work in Ireland will also work in the UK, even if Ireland were to use AAC+. This is of even greater importance for those living near the NI border. Since parts of Europe are considering adoption of the newer codec at some stage, it'll probably be cheaper in the longer term to just make the dual-codec radios and sell the same ones everywhere [in Europe]. Hopefully

waiguoren

Is anyone able to digitally record any of the RTE DAB broadcasts either straight to SD card or to minidisk? I'm not able to do either so I think there may be an extra signal being broadcast to prevent digitally recording. I don't this is used in the UK at all.

watty

What are you receiving on?

Booms

Just tried recording directly to SD card using a Pure Evoke 3. Didn't try RTE Test - seems to be a blank channel - worked fine on all the others.

Location is South Co. Dublin.

hope this helps.

waiguoren

I was using a Sony XDR-S1 radio connected to a Sony MZ-R3 minidisk recorder and it said 'No Copy'. Funny enough, when I used the same radio connected to a Sony MZ-NH600 minidisk recorder, there wasn't a problem. When I was trying to record Lyric FM and RTE Radio 1 to an SD card I was using the Morphy Richards 27024. I was able to record in the UK using this radio though.

Pure Evoke-3? I believe this is one of the most sensitive DAB radios. Are you able to pick up the BBC multiplex on it from South Co Dublin?

L1011

TodayFM dropped to silent about half an hour ago and is showing as "Station Off Air" on my Evoke 1xt. Everything else still working, will rescan in a few minutes..

DMC

Today FM is back ok now....

Just listening to the RTÉ Test channel... they have jingles calling its self "2XM".... hmmmmmmmmmmm

L1011

"2XM" just went silent a minute ago, in the middle of "Every breath you take" by the Police...

And three minutes later, something restarts with Killer Queen by, erm, Queen. Need to head out so can't check to see if it has a different jingle, but I doubt its the other "new RTE dab" station thats been named, can't see many <14 year olds listening to Queen :P

(this is of course assuming that "X" is "2XM"...)

L1011

heh, they're now playing Don't You Want Me (human league) on top of Never Gonna Give You Up (rik astley). And its not a bad beatmix, its actually two songs at once...

DMC

One would assume that the 6 digital channels reported in the press recently might be given an airing on the test freq before going live?

2XM = Xtra Music?

Booms

Hi Waiguoren,

i'm only using the inbuilt aerial at the moment, maybe later in the year I'll try putting something on the roof for DAB. ( there's enuff space, the UHF aerial came down during one of the earlier storms over the christmas. )

I used to have an old VHF eleven element channel 10 aerial, unfortunately it got taken to the dump about five years ago. Not my doing.

We have a hill to the north, which shields much of the signal from Belfast, I did try the radio up at Kilakee car park, and it picked up he BBC mux okay, but was near the threshold, occasionally missing out on the signal. The radio gobbles up batteries, so it's home use mainly.

waiguoren

Thanks Booms. You could get a ChargePak (for the Evoke 3) but not the ideal location to listen to radio half way up a hill. I might try Killakee sometime myself though. I was up Three Rock at the weekend but had enough trouble getting Meteor reception without being blown off the hill so I didn't try the Perstel DR301.

B&Q stores around Dublin have DAB roof aerials.

L1011

As do Maplins - but remember, a VHF TV aerial will do just as good a job. Don't pay extra for a DAB logo, all you'll need to do is put the right 50 cent connector on the cable...

Booms

I've never tried picking up anything on top of Three Rock, tv or radio. I've always assumed any receiver would be swamped by the transmitters being so close. Does anyone have any info/experience to the contrary?

byrnefm

Are there any stores actually selling DAB radios here now because of the launch of RTÉ's service or simply because the store in question has UK affiliations and so have the same stock as per the UK? During the DAB trial last year, the Sony store in Ballsbridge was advertising one of their Sony DAB radios via a poster in the shop window (around May).

waiguoren

Peats Electronics opposite the Cineworld sell the Tivoli Model DAB and the Roberts RD20 and I don't think have branches in the UK. The DAB aerials sold by B&Q looks on the small side so VHF TV aerials (if you can get hold of one) are probably a better bet for getting UK DAB signals

DMC

Currently on DAB, on the RTÉ Test channel.... "Old McDonald had a farm.... e-i-e-i-o.....", followed by Sponge Bob Square Pants.... followed by Dustin's pisstake of Van Morrison's Coney Island...

DMC

No DAB on air at present.

david23

The new version of DAB has been launched today with the official name DAB+. It should be standardised in March 2007 and launched worldwide later this year.

http://www.worlddab.org/upload/uploaddocs/DAB__Press_Release.pdf