DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

Andy454

watty wrote: »

Subscription Radio would never work. That's crazier than ITV/OnDigital Terrestrial Pay TV.

Subscription Radio hasn't worked even with large markets.

Sirius Satellite Radio -

Revenue
Increase US$2.82 billion (FY 2010)[1]
Operating income
Increase US$47.7 million (FY 2010)[1]
Net income
Increase US$465 million (FY 2010)[1]


Music Choice Europe (prior to non renewal of slot on 28.2E) (15 million subscribers)

Currently - 10 million subscribers - http://www.rapidtvnews.com/index.php/2011040511350/mip-tv-stingray-swims-further-with-music-choice-europe-buy-out.html

Subscription radio is big business and is quite successful in many markets across the globe.

If music choice launched a service on DAB it would win subscribers hand over fist - I know because we used to sell the subscriptions to the satellite service in their droves along side sky digital. How many people here remember the Christmas music channel appearing on the sky guide from music choice!!

Commercial premises would also purchase the service and pay commercial rates.

DAB needs to be developed as a premium product to compliment FM radio you have to offer people something to get them to subscribe, you can't just use the service as a bad repeater and expect people are going to throw money at it!! It also has to be linked with the auto industry - the car is the key here!

The easiest way to get people hooked is to give a 2/3 month free trial when they buy their new car or even incentivize dealers to include a years subscription in the price of the car!


85,000 new cars were sold in the state last year.
56,000 new cars were sold in the year to date.

If each car was sold with a one year subscription the revenue would be

120euro x 141,000 = 1,692,000euro

If just 10% of the cars sold kept their subscription 14,000 revenue would be 1,680,000 euro!

Waynes world 2 - if you book them, they will come......

The problem here is there is too much bureaucracy and politics involved

Capt'n Midnight

Andy454 wrote: »

The 3 subscription should have the bbc, npr, wrn services along with commercial free music, news and entertainment similar inform to xm or Sirius.

pricing should be approx. 12euro per month per radio with ability to listen online and all dealer bought cars should be fitted with a compatible DAB radio to start with.

wtf ??

Who is going to pay €12 a month just to cover gaps in coverage not catered for by existing FM/existing internet radio/downloads that you could get on the smartphone that's already in your pocket ?


As for DAB in cars

Capt'n Midnight

Andy454 wrote: »

If just 10% of the cars sold kept their subscription 14,000 revenue would be 1,680,000 euro!

This is the same model as updates for built in GPS in cars.

A half decent third party GPS can cost less than an update.

If you have a smartphone or similar device openstreet map / google maps just uses more data on you existing plan.

I don't think I know anyone who would pay €12 a month to listen to radio without ads when the alternatives include putting their entire mp3 collection on shuffle.

hmmm is there an adzap for pre recorded radio ?

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056967463

RIALTO1 wrote: »

Picked up this radio in Tesco Jervis on Saturday, €55 reduced to €14. Was a few left at that stage. £39.99 on Amazon so seems a decent bargain. It's quite small, but perfect for the back garden on a sunny Sunday afternoon.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-AE5010-05-Portable-Stereo/dp/B007M8RP9C/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1370857185&sr=8-5&keywords=philips+portable+dab+radio

now a tenner if you can find them

zg3409

12% of mobile data in the US music streaming:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/33140-12pc-of-mobile-data-usage-i

when you consider streaming uses relatively little data, that suggests a very high number of users. With no need to puchase hardware and already carrying compatible devices where will FM radio be in 10, 20, 30 years?

zg3409

Q2 update from DAB trial

At the end of each quarter you can get an update with the latest developments and achievements of the dB Digital Broadcasting DAB trial. To automatically receive updates by email or RSS feed see our Join In page.

http://www.dbdb.ie/q1-2013-report/

We began the year concentrating on technical improvements to our signal in the Dublin area. Thanks to some fantastic support from Harris we have made adjustments to our main transmitter which is performing flawlessly and we remain impressed with the signal delivery of DAB. However building penetration remains a problem and we are considering a repositioning of our antenna to aid this subject to ComReg approval.

On the programming side we have had a very favourable response to Love Radio which went on-air on 1st January. Our plans to trial other niche formats continues with the launch of Pure Classic, a high-quality classical music service, early in Q2. We will also welcome the first FM commercial station to join the trial. Dublin based Sunshine Radio will start their DAB service during the next quarter also.

The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland continue to be very supportive with a reduced-rate licence fee specifically for DAB trial broadcasts. The lower cost and simplicity of the process has encouraged more services to trial DAB. During Q1 we have been working with an existing broadcaster preparing one such application and it is expected to be issued late May/early June. Watch this space!

Finally, regarding expansion to Cork, the required upgrade works at the site have unfortunately been delayed. As a result our launch in Ireland’s second largest city has been pushed back to sometime during the coming summer.

As always your feedback is greatly appreciated in the comments section below. Remember to keep up-to-date automatically by email, RSS or our Twitter feed.

zg3409

more news:

Q2 has been exceptionally busy for our DAB trial.

The pace has really picked up with the trial now carrying twice the services we had at launch. In addition to All 80s, Pure Classic, Raidio Ri-Ra, Sunshine Radio and UCB we have just been joined by UK based Amazing Radio. This is a mile-stone for Irish radio as Amazing is the first UK licenced station to broadcast terrestrially in the Republic of Ireland. Our feeling is they won’t be the last.

One thing we learned while adding new services is that new mux configurations, once again, show up deficiencies with many receivers. Some receivers update and add new services automatically as one would imagine. However not all do. Some require a listener to re-scan their radio. Two receivers in particular needed a full factory re-set. While we work with receiver and chip manufacturers to fix issues such as this it is good to know these limitations. We shall use this knowledge with particular attention to how we reconfigure the mux in addition to adding a “re-scan” message on DLS to alert listeners of changes.

Also during Q2 we carried out extensive audio tests. We operated two DAB+ channels carrying the same audio but with different settings. Listeners were asked to respond on our website with their observations. What surprised us was the amount of listeners who rated both channels as being equal in quality despite a difference of up to 32k. This strengthens observations, made elsewhere in Europe, that once the audio is acceptable quality the majority of listeners are happy.

On conclusion of our audio tests, our feeling is that DAB+ offers excellent quality at half the bit-rate of traditional DAB. This bodes well for the future as it further reduces costs for broadcasters and increases the choice of stations available to listeners.

Finally, we are pleased to say, our trial licence has been renewed by ComReg and firm orders have been placed for transmission and antenna equipment needed for our expansion to Cork. It’s going to be a busy summer!

As always your feedback is greatly appreciated in the comments section below. Remember to keep up-to-date automatically by email, RSS or our Twitter feed.

from:
http://www.dbdb.ie/

TAFKAlawhec

Digital 1 to launch in Northern Ireland on Friday 26th July

The full range of national commercial radio stations on DAB digital radio will become available for the first time in Northern Ireland on Friday 26th July. The news was confirmed by Digital Radio UK on Twitter this morning.

Arqiva, operator of the Digital 1 DAB multiplex will be switching on transmitters across the province, enabling listeners to tune into stations including Absolute Radio, Absolute 80s, BFBS, Smooth, Planet Rock and Team Rock on DAB for the first time. Digital 1 is already widely available across England, Wales and Scotland.

The transmitter switch-on will bring national commercial digital radio to 74% of the population of Northern Ireland. The network will provide coverage for 1.3 million people from six transmitters: Divis, Carnmoney Hill, Derry/Londonderry, Brougher Mountain, Strabane and Limavady. It will broadcast on VHF block 11D.

www.a516digital.com/2013/07/digital-1-to-launch-in-northern-ireland.html

glimmerman123

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

www.a516digital.com/2013/07/digital-1-to-launch-in-northern-ireland.html

I wonder how far south will the signal be able to be picked up?

Mr. Rabbit

glimmerman123 wrote: »

I wonder how far south will the signal be able to be picked up?

Given that the RTE multiplex from Clermont Cairn is unreceivable at this location, probably not very far.

I would imagine just the border counties that can receive Brougher, Strabane, Londonerry, and possibly Limavady.

TAFKAlawhec

The RTÉ DAB Mux from Clermont Carn uses a single Band III yagi pointing south-west, so is deliberately restricted to the north, as opposed to the current Bauer NI Mux - the L/Derry, Limavady and Strabane are fairly directional but the Black Mountain and Brougher Mountain sites are somewhat more cardioid. Looking at the site list, I'd expect it that south of the border if you can pick up the Bauer NI Mux on 12D, Digital 1 on 11D should also be likely.

Mr. Rabbit

The RTÉ DAB Mux from Clermont Carn uses a single Band III yagi pointing south-west, so is deliberately restricted to the north.

Is there any reason why ?

Looking at the site list, I'd expect it that south of the border if you can pick up the Bauer NI Mux on 12D, Digital 1 on 11D should also be likely.

Yep, that should be the case.

There are slight differences between the local mux and Digital one though. The local mux uses Black Mountain and Colinward rather than Divis and Carnmoney Hill. I have been told the local mux will move from Black Mountain to Divis. Colinward will be decommissioned and moved to Carnmoney Hill at some stage. Judging by the signal strength at this location, the new duplicates on Classic FM, Talksport, and UCB, are still coming from Colinward Mountain and not Carnmoney Hill, so it'll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow morning. I gather the switch on is at 11 AM.

Wonder if this'll prompt RTE to make their DAB service more available in NI (i.e. remove the null to the north from Clermont Cairn and maybe increase the power to 10kw ?)

Mr. Rabbit

From the Radiotoday e-radio newsletter

The big switch-on of the 6 Northern Ireland digital transmitters by Arqiva is being celebrated on Friday at the iconic Ulster Hall in Belfast, with live music performances sponsored by Absolute Radio and Smooth Radio, and featuring radio celebrities and politicians, including Eurovision Song Contest winner-turned-politician Dana

]

TAFKAlawhec

Digital 1 now up and running, at least here in Omagh.

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Is there any reason why ?

Presumably at the time when the RTÉ DAB Mux was launched there it was a quick and easy way to get it launched at Clermont whilst also meeting potential directional restrictions to protect services on 12C in parts of Britain. Couple that with the piecemeal roll out of DAB by RTÉ and the lack of enthusiasm to go beyond what they currently have with current finances.

Mr. Rabbit

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

Digital 1 now up and running, at least here in Omagh.


Presumably at the time when the RTÉ DAB Mux was launched there it was a quick and easy way to get it launched at Clermont whilst also meeting potential directional restrictions to protect services on 12C in parts of Britain. Couple that with the piecemeal roll out of DAB by RTÉ and the lack of enthusiasm to go beyond what they currently have with current finances.

Yep, Digital One has been on air since midnight. It's been a long time coming, but the best thing to happen in radio on Northern Ireland for years in my opinion. Wonder who will take up the free space on the local multiplex ? U105 are a dead cert I reckon. Possibly Capital, Heart, and BBC Radio Foyle ?

Strangely, when I did a rescan at 1 am I picked up a weak and broken signal from the RTE mux, which was strange as it's never happened before. Gone again today so I'm not sure if they were trying something different or not, or maybe it was due to conditions.

Still, having Digital One is great even if a lot of the stations are in mono.

galtee boy

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Is there any reason why ?



Yep, that should be the case.

There are slight differences between the local mux and Digital one though. The local mux uses Black Mountain and Colinward rather than Divis and Carnmoney Hill. I have been told the local mux will move from Black Mountain to Divis. Colinward will be decommissioned and moved to Carnmoney Hill at some stage. Judging by the signal strength at this location, the new duplicates on Classic FM, Talksport, and UCB, are still coming from Colinward Mountain and not Carnmoney Hill, so it'll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow morning. I gather the switch on is at 11 AM.
[/B]Wonder if this'll prompt RTE to make their DAB service more available in NI (i.e. remove the null to the north from Clermont Cairn and maybe increase the power to 10kw ?)

Make their DAB service more available in NI ? You're having a laugh, their DAB service is not available in 75% of ROI, geographically speaking, so it would be nice if that could be resolved, seeing as we are paying €160 per year to them ! In the meantime, thank God for Internet radio.

Souriau

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Still, having Digital One is great even if a lot of the stations are in mono.

DAB in mono?
I thought DAB was about clearer sound and in stereo, whats the point of DAB when they squeeze so much in 1 Mux and cutting sound quality.
At lease internet radio stations are in stereo

watty

No, DAB is about increasing BBC & RTE dominance, heavy receiver power consumption, too low bit rates to shoe horn more stations in and reduce cost per station.

It's about self gratification of the Regulators and PSBs. It's not about quality. Even UK mainland nearly 1 million households don't have decent DAB signal. To get FM coverage (which is only 99% in UK!) they need about x6 as many fill-in due to the "digital cliff". There is no graceful degradation as you drive.

DAB could be good, but not the way it's done in UK or Ireland. DAB+ won't give more quality either, they will pack in more stations.
But even if DAB is done correctly it doesn't solve the massive power consumption for a receiver compared to AM & FM, or the large delay changing station.

I know people in UK that have abandoned DAB in the Car and now only use FM.

TAFKAlawhec

The implementation of DAB in the UK, especially for the commercial sector, is now more about choice of services than very high quality sound. It's more down to economics than much else really. Nevertheless, Digital 1's roll out into NI is welcome.

The UK's problem with DAB is that it has nowhere near enough coverage and user penetration to even consider a potential date for the closure of VHF Band II and MW/LW transmissions, while there are now too many listeners with DAB radios who would cause a right stir if the platform was to be mothballed or incompatibly re-engineered tomorrow. Transmission costs for a national multiplex are high which partly explains the large amount of mono services on D1. Cars with properly installed DAB radios are still a small minority. Most receivers are small portable style receivers with one or two speakers.

In terms of coverage, reliability is disputed. Many motorists who have bought add-on DAB receiver like the Pure Highway, or installed a new radio with DAB using the existing aerial or one designed to stick on to a window have noted quite a lot of problems with reception. On the other hand where the DAB radio aerial has been properly installed i.e. cut for VHF Band III and not Band II, and also on the roof as opposed to inside on the rear window for example, many have reported being very satisfied with reception. I guess it is like a lot of things talked about here - if your aerial set up is inadequate then reception is likely to be the same e.g. Saorview.

Power consumption of DAB radios are still an issue but have got better over time. Internet radio is also great, but it is not a broadcast platform and is subject to weak spots in the chain from station to listener that the station has little or no control over e.g. mobile phone coverage.

At least I can now listen to Absolute Radio through my eight-year old DAB radio. :pac: Interestingly, I did some bitrate measurements over the last couple of days and found that while Absolute Radio 90's on DAB is just 64k mono, it's not much better on satellite at 80k mono. :eek:

Mr. Rabbit

Yep, quite correct.

Fidelity isn't really an issue listening on portable mono radio. and there's always Freeview and satellite. Indeed, many hifi systems come with internet radio these days.

Where I find it handy is the fact that I can listen to many more stations without the need for an internet connection. 30 odd stations in greater Belfast is surely far better than a measly 9 on FM ?

I would imagine DAB in the car could be somewhat problematic. Like all digital systems, it's either there or it isn't. FM (and AM) simply fade out gradually the farther away you are from the transmitter, so in this case analogue is probably better.

I've also wondered why the ERPs for the main DAB transmitters are so low ? Granted, digital is more efficient than analogue, but a 10 kw DAB transmitter at Divis isn't going to have the reach of a 250 kw FM one, surely ?

Until DAB can match the coverage of FM and AM, switching off analogue radio is surely a pipe dream.

TAFKAlawhec

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Yep, quite correct.

Fidelity isn't really an issue listening on portable mono radio. and there's always Freeview and satellite. Indeed, many hifi systems come with internet radio these days.

Can't recall directly what bitrate is used for BBC Radio on Freeview, but BBC Radios 1-4 on satellite are all 192kbps Joint Stereo while BBC London, Scotland, Wales & Ulster are all 128kbps.

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Where I find it handy is the fact that I can listen to many more stations without the need for an internet connection. 30 odd stations in greater Belfast is surely far better than a measly 9 on FM ?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Certainly in many parts of Belfast where there are well noted problems receiving FM radio services from the Republic due to topology (though a few others can receive RTÉ↕ FM radio fairly clearly bar Lyric FM).

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

I've also wondered why the ERPs for the main DAB transmitters are so low ? Granted, digital is more efficient than analogue, but a 10 kw DAB transmitter at Divis isn't going to have the reach of a 250 kw FM one, surely ?

The ERPs are deliberately kept low so that destructive co-channel interference is minimised in a single frequency network that DAB uses, as opposed to constructive co-channel interference which can actually be a benefit when receiving. Too high an ERP risks having spillover coverage into another transmitter service area which lies outside the time frame for constructive reception. During periods of high reception the likes of the BBC national mux can have degraded reception because enhanced reception from transmitters over in Britain which are normally too far away to be a problem start being received.

Also comparing VHF Band III DAB and VHF Band II FM ERPs and coverage is apples & oranges. BBC FM radio from Divis (except Radio 4) is 125kW per plane whereas DAB is vertical only; the national FM stations are multi-frequency networks; Band II reception can get around trickier terrain better. But a 10kW DAB transmission can still get out a good distance in the absence of interference - when Divis was the only BBC DAB transmitter in Northern Ireland, I was able to pick it up with an attic aerial without too many problems except when the power was reduced.

As a comparison, the RoI DAB allocations have a maximum ERP at any site of 25kW. To the best of my knowledge the country with the highest ERP for DAB transmissions - strictly speaking here DAB+ - is Australia where the multiplexes in the five main cities (Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth & Adelaide) are 50kW each - however the is a good enough clear distance between the cities where co-channel interference between any two areas is unlikely to be a problem unless maybe a very intense tropo happens.

As for any analogue radio switch off? Not for at least 10 years minimum.

Capt'n Midnight

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Where I find it handy is the fact that I can listen to many more stations without the need for an internet connection. 30 odd stations in greater Belfast is surely far better than a measly 9 on FM ?

Thing is internet coverage is growing and caps are getting higher, compare now to ten years ago and imagine what will be available in 10 years time. For essential news and traffic announcements FM is good enough. For the niche stuff just use podcasts.

http://tunein.com/about/

TuneIn lets you hear what's happening right now on over 70,000 radio stations globally and enjoy two million on-demand programs, like podcasts, concerts and interviews.

Capt'n Midnight

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

At least I can now listen to Absolute Radio through my eight-year old DAB radio. :pac: Interestingly, I did some bitrate measurements over the last couple of days and found that while Absolute Radio 90's on DAB is just 64k mono, it's not much better on satellite at 80k mono. :eek:

Different codecs ?

The thing is it's not news , weather or traffic so it's not really essential that you listen to it live

http://www.absoluteradio.co.uk/listen/
http://www.absoluteradio.co.uk/listen/iamp_android.html

Intelligent streaming gives you CD quality on a WiFi connection and prevents audio-stuttering when you're out and about.
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SPDUB

Thanks to StreetLight on the radio forum for spotting this

Pure Classic has been replaced with All 70's though I notice their song information appears to be stick on Bach Keyboard concerto in D

Gordon West

How come that even after a good number of years broadcasting a DAB radio service, only 50% of the population can receive it. And there seems to be no rush in rectifying this anomaly. Why should a rural household subsidise the city folk. Our TV licence is paying for this service too, yet the airwaves are silent for us (with respect to DAB radio).

The Cush

Gordon West wrote: »

How come that even after a good number of years broadcasting a DAB radio service, only 50% of the population can receive it. And there seems to be no rush in rectifying this anomaly.

- No national policy on Digital Radio (BAI)
- No interest from the commercial radio sector
- No cash, RTÉ/RTÉNL has spent around €70 million switching the transmission network from analogue to digital since 2008

Antenna

Don't know why this is happening but on p169 Aertel there is this:

Service Notification:
Digital Audio Broadcasting - DAB

Changes in Service Identifier RTÉ Radio.

The service identifiers for the following digital radio services will change at 09:00 on 4th September - RTÉ Radio 1 Extra, RTÉ 2XM, RTÉ Jr, RTÉ Gold & RTÉ Pulse. This change will need a rescan by DAB radio users, please follow the instructions supplied with your device or consult RTÉ Radio website @ www.rte.ie/radio/page/rte-radio-ways-to-listen.html

(URL corrected)

Trick of the Tail

Because they were wrong for ages.

The SIDs should be the same as the FM RDS PI code, if the service is simulcast, to allow equipped receivers to switch between FM and DAB.

RTE's SIDs weren't the same - causing radios to switch to the wrong stations.

The Cush

RTÉNL Technical Information

Service Notification:
Digital Audio Broadcasting - DAB

Changes in Service Identifier RTÉ Radio.

The service identifiers for the following digital radio services will change at 09:00 on 4th September - RTÉ Radio 1 Extra, RTÉ 2XM, RTÉ Jr, RTÉ Gold & RTÉ Pulse. This change will need a rescan by DAB radio users, please follow the instructions supplied with your device or consult RTÉ Radio website @ www.rte.ie /page/rte- radio-ways-to-listen.

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/169-2.html

Did a rescan on a Roberts Gemini 29 DAB clock radio today, 16 services found on DAB Ireland Mux1

RTE R1 ... [Stereo J 128 Kbps]
RTE R1+ (no audio) ... [Stereo 48 Kbps]
RTE R1x (RTÉ Radio extra, RTE Choice audio) ... [Mono 80 Kbps]

RTE RnaG ... [Stereo J 112 Kbps]

Retune (RTE Jr/RTE Chill audio) ... [Mono 80 Kbps]
Retune (RTE 2XM audio) ... [Stereo J 128 Kbps]
Retune (RTE GOLD audio) ... [Stereo J 128 Kbps]
Retune (RTE R1x audio) ... [Mono 80 Kbps]
Retune (RTE Pulse audio) ... [Stereo J 112 Kbps]

RTE 2FM+ (no audio) ... [Stereo 48 Kbps]
RTE 2FM ... [Stereo J 128 Kbps]
RTE 2XM ... [Stereo J 128 Kbps]

RTE GOLD ... [Stereo J 128 Kbps]
RTE Jr (0730-2100) / RTE Chill (2100-0700) ... [Mono 80 Kbps]
RTELYRIC ... [Stereo J 160 Kbps]
RTEPULSE ... [Stereo J 112 Kbps]


Scrolling text - Please Rescan/Autotune your Digital Radio set to update services

Souriau

Which transmitters have DAB and does it mean other transmitters came online for DAB?