DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

Mickey Mike

I live in Kerry so at the moment all I know is There will be no rollout of either DAB or DAB+ in Ireland until there is an FM switch off.
At the present time Broadcasters and the like don't know what their doing.

Charles Slane

natashaob6 wrote: »

What kind of radio station is this and I wonder is it a commercial station?

"Radio Maria - A Christian Voice in your Home".

And more specifically it says it's Ireland only Catholic radio station.

Alsalmo

StreetLight wrote: »

Radio Maria has been added to the Kippure output, in both DAB and DAB+.

As I live in Naas area, I assume that I am also served by the Kippure transmission.
However, when I tried an autotune just now, I found that both R1 and 2FM have disappeared from DAB+, leaving just 9 DAB stations. It did not find Radio Maria.

It appears that RTE have given up on DAB+, or at least the "test" transmission in my area.

Alsalmo

Alsalmo wrote: »

As I live in Naas area, I assume that I am also served by the Kippure transmission.
However, when I tried an autotune just now, I found that both R1 and 2FM have disappeared from DAB+, leaving just 9 DAB stations. It did not find Radio Maria.

It appears that RTE have given up on DAB+, or at least the "test" transmission in my area.

Another autotune just now and I am back to eleven stations, as RTE+ and 2FM+ have reappeared. Still no sign of Radio Maria, however.

SimonMaher

Radio Maria are broadcasting on the Independent trial MUX Dab Ireland Mux 2 rather than the RTE Dab Ireland Mux 1 so isn't on the Kippure TX.

The DAB+ Stations on the RTE Mux are sounding well even at 48K and the Independent Mux at 64k. To the best of my knowledge, the plan is that the RTE Dab+ stations are (or will become) a permanent fixture simulcasted with the regular DAB broadcasts.

Still no sign of a permanent DAB Mux licence being advertised by the BAI although it's Licence strategy review time this year for the BAI which might progress things. Some pushing strongly for and others pushing strongly against!

Simon

rogue-entity

Mickie Mike wrote: »

What I could never understand after 12 years of this thread is there is still no national rollout of DAB/DAB+ in Ireland, what in the hell is wrong? What are they waiting for? All we have is trials and tests, when is this bull**** going to stop and launch this format for once.

Nobody is waiting for anything, there is nothing but ardent foot-dragging going on and it will continue since nobody cares enough to challenge it nor upset the status quo. The last time I inquired about this, Comreg pushed me to the BAI who in turn pushed me back to Comreg. Comreg seem to be waiting for the BAI to decide what to do while the BAI point out that they don't license service providers (such as Virgin Media) and a DAB Mux operator is just that, a service provider.

I doubt any of the commercial broadcasters want it either, they've invested in FM which is cheap, cheerful and works for everyone.

StreetLight wrote: »

Radio Maria has been added to the Kippure output, in both DAB and DAB+.

I noticed this the other day but there was no audio at all.

Mickie Mike wrote: »

I live in Kerry so at the moment all I know is There will be no rollout of either DAB or DAB+ in Ireland until there is an FM switch off.
At the present time Broadcasters and the like don't know what their doing.

I presumed that was more down to cost (a bit like telecoms) with the equipment costs having a nice premium price tag, last I had heard the additional DAB multiplex(es) for RTE were redeploys of the old commercial trial in Dublin.

The current broadcasters do know what they are doing, they don't want to invest in technology that won't further their bottom line.

ftakeith

Can RTE and the Irish Government organise that the same rates for Irish FM radio licence rates be almost the same fees for irish commercial radio stations

As if FM were terminated for radio, the Government could sell the radio bandwith to mobile phone operators

The Cush

ftakeith wrote: »

As if FM were terminated for radio, the Government could sell the radio bandwith to mobile phone operators

Only Norway has decided to end FM broadcasting, for the rest of the world it will be around for a long time. No harmonised plan for the reuse of the cleared spectrum as a result but probably too low down the band to be of interest to the mobile operators.

Sam Russell

ftakeith wrote: »

Can RTE and the Irish Government organise that the same rates for Irish FM radio licence rates be almost the same fees for irish commercial radio stations

As if FM were terminated for radio, the Government could sell the radio bandwith to mobile phone operators

You would need a very long aerial dangling from your mobile if you were using FM. Might give better coverage in remote areas though - but still need a long aerial - you can't beat the physics - the wave length is about 3m, so a quarter wave would be 750 mm (or 2 and a half feet in old money).

Gerry Wicklow

Mobiles have been using the headphone lead as an FM aerial for years.

The Cush

One possible long term use could be as a 5g SDL band similar to Ofcom's proposed use of the 700Mhz duplex gap.

Mickey Mike

All you guys seem to make really good points, reading it through, my gut feeling is FM radio is here to stay for a very long time because it works very well. Maybe out population is too small to justify the expense of any kind of rollout. As for mobile phones UHF channels 50 and upwards will be used, that's the info that is coming from the UK. Next year they start moving TV frequencies down the UHF band. There's also talks of the same happening here. Saorview will run on channels 21 to 49.

The Cush

Mickie Mike wrote: »

As for mobile phones UHF channels 50 and upwards will be used, that's the info that is coming from the UK. Next year they start moving TV frequencies down the UHF band. There's also talks of the same happening here. Saorview will run on channels 21 to 49.

UHF Chs. 49-60 were co-allocated to mobile at WRC-15 last Nov. Comreg DTT frequency replanning is on-going with Ofcom, ANFR, BAI and 2RN and expected to complete in the coming months. The Comreg preliminary planning for the release of the band is already underway and a consultation on its release is expected later this year. The 700 Mhz auction is likely to take place next year in conjunction with the 2.6 Ghz band auction (mobile coverage and capacity bands)

The European Commission has published its proposals for the EU harmonisation of the 700 MHz band for mobile broadband use and its release Europe wide by mid 2020. Ofcom is aligning the release of the 700 MHz band in the UK with the European Commission proposal.

Thread here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057149710

reboot

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Indeed, considering how strong FM and DTT signals from Clermont Cairn are around here (Jordanstown, Newtownabbey), DAB from the same site really should be a lot stronger.

I cant figure out why it's so restricted to the north. Are there any plans to improve the situation like they did with DTT after ASO ?

Still, I suppose there's always the internet and DTT.

Think this was discussed at the time of switchover in the North, and it was suggested the null was a legal requirement ? I gave up on RTE Gold from the stb,

reboot

Sam Russell wrote: »

You would need a very long aerial dangling from your mobile if you were using FM. Might give better coverage in remote areas though - but still need a long aerial - you can't beat the physics - the wave length is about 3m, so a quarter wave would be 750 mm (or 2 and a half feet in old money).

Just as an aside, but slightly connected,, radio mic freqs had to move over recently for 4 g mobile, costing sound recordist a few grand to buy new mics,A company in Australia are selling radio mics now on the microwave 2.4 GHz,,freq,that do the job fine for a few hundred.

reboot

Thursday 1550 hrs, 1khz line up tone 0 level, over music, "how long has this been going on"
RTE Gold.

Will Truskmore ever have DAB switched on or is it something about it being too close to NI?

The Cush

zorro2566 wrote: »

Will Truskmore ever have DAB switched on or is it something about it being too close to NI?

All the transmitters have coordinated DAB frequency allocations since 2006 but there is no national plan to rollout the network.

marno21

The Cush wrote: »

All the transmitters have coordinated DAB frequency allocations since 2006 but there is no national plan to rollout the network.

Only actual details there for ILR & regional TXs

If Clermont Carn can get DAB, Truskmore can.

The Cush

marno21 wrote: »

Only actual details there for ILR & regional TXs

Also includes the 3 national SFN allocations

12C IRL DAB NATIONAL 1 (RTÉ)
12A IRL DAB NATIONAL 2
10A IRL DAB NATIONAL 3

Mickey Mike

Just saw the 2006 rollout plan for DAB, could't make head nor tail of it. I don't think they will be any further rollout of DAB, its going on too long.

The Cush

Mickie Mike wrote: »

Just saw the 2006 rollout plan for DAB, could't make head nor tail of it.

I've added the column key to the attachment if that's any help.

Column 3 is the frequency block
Column 4 is the planned coverage area
Column 6 is the transmitter site
Column 10/11 is the max. allowed ERP for the transmitter
Column 7 indicates at the time the plan was completed in 2006 whether the entry was an assignment or an allotment (see below)

- DS1 Channel assignments are specific transmitter locations with a stated transition channel transmit power and antenna height.
- DS2 An allotment is a ‘place holder’ that reserves a channel for a specific geographical area without necessarily detailing all transmitter locations.

StreetLight

I've just noticed what may be an interesting development on DAB in Dublin.

Up to now, there have been two multiplexes - one for RTE, the other for commercial interests. Besides the RTE multiplex carrying RTE Lyric in the DAB format, the commercial multiplex is now carrying two versions of the station. One is in DAB, the other in DAB+.

The Programme Identifier shows the station on the RTE multiplex as 'RTE Lyric', but the Identifiers on the commercial multiplex show just 'Lyric' and 'Lyric+", without the RTE prefix.

I'm wondering if this is just a technical test, or has the position changed where RTE may now be given an operational input into the two multiplexes?

marno21

Chris Greene advertised RTE Pulse on 2FM this evening by saying you can find it on the Internet, the players and the apps.

No mention of DAB

Mickey Mike

marno21 wrote: »

Chris Greene advertised RTE Pulse on 2FM this evening by saying you can find it on the Internet, the players and the apps.

No mention of DAB

And nation wide on Saorview, that's as far as its going to go

Sam Russell

You assume he has heard of DAB or Saorview.

rogue-entity

So while RTE have halted advancing the rollout of DAB (a pity because I'm a fan of Radio 1 Extra) nobody, short of someone politically connected, is able to secure a licence to operate a DAB multiplex. I don't believe anything is otherwise using the VHF Band III since the shutdown of analogue TV so it seems an awful waste to let it sit idle.
Surely if there is no commercial interest in it, it should be opened up for lease to anybody who might want to use it in the mean time outside of 'test and trial'

Mickey Mike

rogue-entity wrote: »

So while RTE have halted advancing the rollout of DAB (a pity because I'm a fan of Radio 1 Extra) nobody, short of someone politically connected, is able to secure a licence to operate a DAB multiplex. I don't believe anything is otherwise using the VHF Band III since the shutdown of analogue TV so it seems an awful waste to let it sit idle.
Surely if there is no commercial interest in it, it should be opened up for lease to anybody who might want to use it in the mean time outside of 'test and trial'

DAB is only available in the east of Ireland, not available in the west, I don't know for the life of me why is this. You would imagine they'd at least have done the main TXs. 2 years ago I emailed RTE about putting Radio 1 extra on FM, they replied "There is not enough spectrum on FM for another service, even in mono"

The Parish Priest.

Mickey Mike wrote: »

DAB is only available in the east of Ireland, not available in the west, I don't know for the life of me why is this. You would imagine they'd at least have done the main TXs. 2 years ago I emailed RTE about putting Radio 1 extra on FM, they replied "There is not enough spectrum on FM for another service, even in mono"

Well they are right and it wouldn't be financially viable for them to have another fm service even if there was space.

The Parish Priest.

marno21 wrote: »

Chris Greene advertised RTE Pulse on 2FM this evening by saying you can find it on the Internet, the players and the apps.

No mention of DAB

I'd imagine very few people who listen to Chris Greene have a dab set