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DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

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    #1982
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Where I am in North Midlands, I can just about get RTE Dublin but not good enough for daily use and the 3 Brougher muxes are there but unlistenable. I just use an SDR dongle and rooftop aerial. Couldn't be @rsed to improve the setup when I have perfect Satellite instead.


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    #1983
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    If DAB is to be promoted, then it should be a requirement that any station on FM has a presence on DAB in that locality. Newstalk is supposedly a national station but is not on DAB, so if I want to switch from RTE1 to Newstalk, I cannot be bothered to select DAB, plus there is a delay on the signal which is annoying.


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    #1984
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    As a regular Newstalk listener I can tell you they are barely even on FM. Mind you, Tom Dunne's attempt to revive old vinyl records is been taken to the limit by their mono broadcasts :P


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    #1985
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Ah give this new DAB thing a chance to catch on ........ its only 16 years since this thread was started ..... give it time!


    :D


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    #1986
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    As a regular Newstalk listener I can tell you they are barely even on FM. Mind you, Tom Dunne's attempt to revive old vinyl records is been taken to the limit by their mono broadcasts :P

    Disappoints me greatly that Newstalk is on a fraction of the power of other stations on FM from Clermont Carn so here in N. Ireland its reception is very much hit and miss.


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    #1987
    Antenna
    Registered Users Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Antenna


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Disappoints me greatly that Newstalk is on a fraction of the power of other stations on FM from Clermont Carn so here in N. Ireland its reception is very much hit and miss.

    Its more to do with the use of a different aerial which has a more restricted pattern (for ROI coverage only) than transmitter power being less.

    Today FM 105.5 on the other hand combined into the same aerial as the four RTE FMs so goes into Northern Ireland the same as RTE.


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    #1988
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    Newstalk is available via satellite giving Ireland 100% coverage, Today FM is only available on FM but have the best signal (better than RTE). Newstalk won't expand any further on FM I'd imagine.


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    #1989
    soporific
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭soporific


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    Where I am in North Midlands, I can just about get RTE Dublin but not good enough for daily use and the 3 Brougher muxes are there but unlistenable. I just use an SDR dongle and rooftop aerial. Couldn't be @rsed to improve the setup when I have perfect Satellite instead.


    I got a Mercury DAB aerial from amazon for about 12 quid for a bit of fun and put it beneath the TV aerial on the roof mast. I got all three brougher muxes and a garbled fourth mux (the one with talksport 2 and scala radio). I'm in east meath just outside Drogheda. For the small investment, it was well worth it. I've split the signal to four feeds and have dab radio in all rooms. From waking up in the morning to clear digital to last thing at night, it is so much more handy than satellite radio or FM. (BY the way, I listen to some of the German classical stations on astra 19 but know of no way to switch them on with one remote first thing in the morning!)


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    #1990
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    For the few things I'd ever bother listening to on UK channels, satellite does for me. Maybe next summer if I get bored some day ;)
    As for satellite radio, I have a recurring ZAP timer set to switch on Newstalk and HDMI CEC the tv as my alarm clock. You need the zap to fire the HDMI.

    Totally off topic. Newstalk had some very interesting gremlins on 28E Wednesday night / Thursday. Sounded like they were interviewing a whistle-blower but taken to the extreme. :)


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    #1991
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    An internet radio that can access all that is available from there, as well as anything I make available on the local network from DVB-S and DVB-T, does it for me, with SHWBO still using FM for local radio.


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    #1992
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    There's a lot to be said for the simplicity of the ould tranny on the windowsill.


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    #1993
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    There's a lot to be said for the simplicity of the ould tranny on the windowsill.

    My internet radios are treated like an old tranny with presets ....... I just press a button and have the desired station. :D

    EDIT:

    I just recalled I used to run a radio server on the LAN which the radios connected to (Logitech Media Server) ....... I might re-introduce that after I get my whole LAN re-worked during Winter.


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    #1994
    Trick of the Tail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    If DAB is to be promoted, then it should be a requirement that any station on FM has a presence on DAB in that locality. Newstalk is supposedly a national station but is not on DAB, so if I want to switch from RTE1 to Newstalk, I cannot be bothered to select DAB, plus there is a delay on the signal which is annoying.

    I disagree. What's the point of the same station being available on two different bands in the same area?

    Thats a waste of resources. DAB should be used for additional services to increase listener choice, not to duplicate existing ones.

    Of course I'm sure the IBI stations would prefer that if they HAD to use DAB, it would be filled up with only their stations.


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    #1995
    Trick of the Tail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    Why does the delay matter, if you're not comparing it with anything?

    And the antennas are smaller, not bigger, as the wavelength is less than FM.


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I think that the rise in the sale of DAB radios is taken as a rise in the number of DAB listeners. This is simply wishful thinking by broadcasters.

    DAB is not as easy as FM as there is a delay in the audio stream, and a delay in changing channels. It also requires a bigger and better aerial, and suffers from the digital cliff effect. Also, only a few stations are on DAB compared with FM.

    All of these factors mitigate against its use by the listeners who actually have a DAB enabled set. FM is nearly a perfect platform for radio - DAB is not.


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    #1996
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Trick of the Tail wrote: »
    Why does the delay matter, if you're not comparing it with anything?

    And the antennas are smaller, not bigger, as the wavelength is less than FM.

    Well, if every radio in the house has DAB or DAB+, then maybe it's OK, but if one radio is tuned to FM and an adjoining room has DAB+, then a horrible echo ensues that is just mind blowing.

    Also, if radio selection buttons could be programmed so that, say, button 1 was RTE R1 on DAB+, button 2 was RTE 2 on FM, while button 3 was RTE Lyric on DAB, and button 4 was BBC Radio 4 on internet, while button 5 is NewsTalk on FM.

    I know of no radio that can do this. They all work on the basis of:
    1. Select band, 2 select station.
    That is not much use for ease of selection of what a listener wants actually to tune into. Radio has not advanced much in the last few decades.


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    #1997
    Trick of the Tail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Well, if every radio in the house has DAB or DAB+, then maybe it's OK, but if one radio is tuned to FM and an adjoining room has DAB+, then a horrible echo ensues that is just mind blowing.

    Also, if radio selection buttons could be programmed so that, say, button 1 was RTE R1 on DAB+, button 2 was RTE 2 on FM, while button 3 was RTE Lyric on DAB, and button 4 was BBC Radio 4 on internet, while button 5 is NewsTalk on FM.

    I know of no radio that can do this. They all work on the basis of:
    1. Select band, 2 select station.
    That is not much use for ease of selection of what a listener wants actually to tune into. Radio has not advanced much in the last few decades.

    Car radios often can switch automatically between FM and DAB to follow the station.

    However, my suggestion that services are NOT duplicated between FM and DAB would preclude this issue anyway.


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    #1998
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Trick of the Tail wrote: »
    Car radios often can switch automatically between FM and DAB to follow the station.

    However, my suggestion that services are NOT duplicated between FM and DAB would preclude this issue anyway.

    Well, FM radios go back to the fifties and any still working are generally better than the newer batch. It is possible to have very cheap FM radios that are very good as pocket radios.

    DB radios on the other hand, are rubbish as a portable as they eat batteries, but could (if the broadcaster is not greedy with bandwidth) give much better quality, but normally do not. DB radios are not good with marginal signals because of the digital cliff effect.

    Why are there no radio receivers that can get Saorview type broadcasts? [Just getting the audio from TV and the radio stations].


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    #1999
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    ...

    Why are there no radio receivers that can get Saorview type broadcasts? [Just getting the audio from TV and the radio stations].

    My guess is the requirement for an aerial and dish to receive the signals from Terrestrial and Satellite broadcasts.

    It is easy to manage if within the home, but not on the move.

    On the other hand if only the DVB-T signals were all that was required, how would one manage a suitable aerial 'on the move'?


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    #2000
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    My guess is the requirement for an aerial and dish to receive the signals from Terrestrial and Satellite broadcasts.

    It is easy to manage if within the home, but not on the move.

    On the other hand if only the DVB-T signals were all that was required, how would one manage a suitable aerial 'on the move'?

    I am thinking of a domestic receiver only. I know the aerial would be a massive problem even, perhaps, in strong signal areas.


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    #2001
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I am thinking of a domestic receiver only. I know the aerial would be a massive problem even, perhaps, in strong signal areas.

    If I was 'designing' something for this purpose I would have a receiver with multiple tuners, and make its output available on LAN (wired and wireless) for various devices to 'tune' into.
    Something similar to what I have presently for TV and radio using tvheadend backend running on a real light wee box.

    Keeping the tuners in one location would make it easy for attaching coax only at that loaction.


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    #2002
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    If I was 'designing' something for this purpose I would have a receiver with multiple tuners, and make its output available on LAN (wired and wireless) for various devices to 'tune' into.
    Something similar to what I have presently for TV and radio using tvheadend backend running on a real light wee box.

    Keeping the tuners in one location would make it easy for attaching coax only at that loaction.

    Sounds good.


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    #2003
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    If DAB is to be promoted, then it should be a requirement that any station on FM has a presence on DAB in that locality.
    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Well, FM radios go back to the fifties and any still working are generally better than the newer batch. It is possible to have very cheap FM radios that are very good as pocket radios.

    DB radios on the other hand, are rubbish as a portable as they eat batteries, but could (if the broadcaster is not greedy with bandwidth) give much better quality, but normally do not. DB radios are not good with marginal signals because of the digital cliff effect.

    Why are there no radio receivers that can get Saorview type broadcasts? [Just getting the audio from TV and the radio stations].
    Cheapest FM radio is free. And most likely you have one in your pocket as most mobile phones have had them built in forever.

    As for the "must carry" look at Saorview only RTE1 and RTE2 are in HD.
    So there's lots of power wasted transmitting nothing because not all of the available bandwidth is being used.

    Why is TG4 not HD on Saorsat ? There's no competition from Virgin.

    If you have mains power then many DAB channels are on your TV or Saoriew or satellite box even if you don't have the interwebs.

    If you don't have power then DAB eats batteries.
    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    There's a lot to be said for the simplicity of the ould tranny on the windowsill.
    How long do torch batteries last in them ?


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    #2004
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    ....

    How long do torch batteries last in them ?
    I have a small tranny that runs for 7-8 weeks on 2 x AAs (rechargeables). Show me a DAB that can do that.


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    #2005
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,799 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    its strange how languages change - tranny means totally different thing these days <snigger> :D:D


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    #2006
    god's toy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭god's toy


    ...And it's a Good bye RTE Digital Radio, We Hardly Knew Ye.


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    #2007
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    god's toy wrote: »
    ...And it's a Good bye RTE Digital Radio, We Hardly Knew Ye.

    Yeah, heard some ref to that this morn ........ not that I was ever in a position/location to use it anyway.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/1106/1089209-rte-cuts/
    RTÉ has confirmed that it is seeking to reduce its workforce by 200 as one of a series of measures to tackle its financial crisis and reduce projected costs by €60m over the next three years.

    Other notable measures include the closure of the existing studios in Limerick and the digital radio network, the sale of the RTÉ Guide and the closure of the Aertel service


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    #2008
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    It is so disappointing to hear the forthcoming closure of the digital radio channels, I've always thought digital is the way forward and they would launch a national BAB service. Backwards they are going, still stuck with rubbish LW and FM, definitely its a bad day for digital.


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    #2009
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    I wonder will RTE Radio1, 2FM, RnaG and Lyric FM continue on Saorview platform?


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    #2010
    Rick_
    Registered Users Posts: 2,610 ✭✭✭Rick_


    Why wouldn't they?


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    #2011
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,799 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Mickey Mike wrote: »
    It is so disappointing to hear the forthcoming closure of the digital radio channels, I've always thought digital is the way forward and they would launch a national BAB service. Backwards they are going, still stuck with rubbish LW and FM, definitely its a bad day for digital.

    Backwards indeed - I wonder why they couldnt have retired analogue FM radio altogether over here like they retired analogue TV and 'forced' people to change over to digital to pick up the TV stations ?


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