'Racist?' Questions by Insurance Co.

Atreides

I support MadsL in this, it wasn't to long ago that one would pay more for your car insurance if you live in certain "high crime" area's, hell you probably still do. Not really related to the topic, but it shows insurance companies will take anything they want to screw you over.

bizmark

ne owuld pay more for your car insurance if you live in certain "high crime" area's, hell you probably still do.

:eek: ILL BE DAMNED they charge you more if you car is more likely to be robbed ! THATS A OUTRAGE!...:D

MadsL

quote:

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Originally posted by bizmark
if u feel so much against it why not complan to someone that can change it ?

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Bizmark is right! Why don't you ASK THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, instead of pissing and moaning about it on here where it's unlikely anyone will know why they ask these questions.

I have ands I will post the results of that complaint once they 'review' my complaint...

And my reason for posting here was to see if anyone else here felt as strongly as I do about it, enough to bring some pressure to bear on the insurance company. Clearly you are an apatheic bunch (with a few exceptions) when it comes civil liberties, and somehow caring about the rights of someone who hadn't the 'good fortune' to be born on this 'blessed isle' (depending if their parents were deported immediately afterward) is a sin in your eyes. Odd.

The fact that no-one in the north 'cares' (which I doubt BTW) means you all deserve to have the peace process fall apart.

Atreides

Originally posted by bizmark
:eek: ILL BE DAMNED they charge you more if you car is more likely to be robbed ! THATS A OUTRAGE!...:D

Tell me is there anywhere where there is not chance of your car being robbed, who is to say my cars more likely to get robbed then yours? If oyur car is worth more, then your car is more likely to get robbed,

bizmark

Their are higer risk area's m8

just like if i was to run naked drinking a beer though dublin its Very unlikely id be killed
How ever if i did the same thing in iraq id be dead before the american's can say "frendly fire":p

MadsL

Ok Lets talk facts. I now have hard evidence of discrimination and will be taking this further.

Exactly same details except nationality and I was quoted;

F53 American 2.0L car = 2791 euro
F53 Korean 2.0L = 5354 euro


Try arguing there is no discrimination.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by MadsL
quote:

---

Originally posted by bizmark
if u feel so much against it why not complan to someone that can change it ?

---

I have ands I will post the results of that complaint once they 'review' my complaint...

And my reason for posting here was to see if anyone else here felt as strongly as I do about it, enough to bring some pressure to bear on the insurance company. Clearly you are an apatheic bunch (with a few exceptions) when it comes civil liberties, and somehow caring about the rights of someone who hadn't the 'good fortune' to be born on this 'blessed isle' (depending if their parents were deported immediately afterward) is a sin in your eyes. Odd.

The fact that no-one in the north 'cares' (which I doubt BTW) means you all deserve to have the peace process fall apart.

I agree with you 100%. The problem is the Irish are resigned to the fact they are being rode over backwards by the Insurance companies and other businesses. They just accept it and stay quiet. Its up to the likes of MadsL and like minded people to expose the wrong doers. I wish you every sucess with your action.


BTW:
In the North, what happens if you are of neither main "religion"? What if you are a morman or other minority group? Are these part of 50/50 system? More to the point what if you say your an atheist?

People do convert and give up religion so checking where you went to school would prove nothing.

Atreides

Well how come when ever i put in 19 as my age I can't get a quote?

Silent Bob

A relevant question would be where was your driving licence issued. Some countries have more lax rules than us and others (most of Europe) have far more stringent driver education than we do.

Whether you are Irish, Chinese, Italian American, Argentinian etc. it should not matter a damn to an insurance company if you hold an Irish driving licence. After all you have proven your ability to drive according to the laws of this country.

eth0_

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond

In the North, what happens if you are of neither main "religion"? What if you are a morman or other minority group? Are these part of 50/50 system?

It's 'catholic' 'protestant' 'neither community'.
Madsl - your little snide remark about the peace process is exactly the kind of stupid, knee-jerk reaction i've come to expect from you, from what posts of yours i've read. We don't 'care' about the equality survey we have to fill in with every job application because....it's for our own protection. Not so long ago, plenty of protestant employers wouldn't employ catholics and vice versa. There was no way of checking who was doing this. Now the government can, and if they see an employer employing no catholics, they investigate. The company themselves don't (well, aren't supposed to) look at the form you fill in.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by eth0_
It's 'catholic' 'protestant' 'neither community'.
Madsl - your little snide remark about the peace process is exactly the kind of stupid, knee-jerk reaction i've come to expect from you, from what posts of yours i've read. We don't 'care' about the equality survey we have to fill in with every job application because....it's for our own protection. Not so long ago, plenty of protestant employers wouldn't employ catholics and vice versa. There was no way of checking who was doing this. Now the government can, and if they see an employer employing no catholics, they investigate. The company themselves don't (well, aren't supposed to) look at the form you fill in.

If they dont look where do the forms go to? what becomes of them? What % of the neither community are they required to employ?

eth0_

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
If they dont look where do the forms go to? what becomes of them? What % of the neither community are they required to employ?

They go to a government agency, the equality commission I think they're called. They're not required to employ any % of any community, it's only if an employer is seen to be employing only one section of the community that suspicions are raised.

MadsL

I can't believe you eth0_

I raise the point here that an insurance company is charging up to 2,500 euro difference SOLELY on the basis of nationality, and you accuse me of being knee-jerk.

kind of stupid, knee-jerk reaction i've come to expect from you

Thank you - I specialise in stupidity and jerks. I'll try to say nothing in future so I don't offend you. :rolleyes:

I said that people should not have to answer questions about nationality in their insurance quotations, my comment about the peace process was that if you don't care about civil liberties, then it doesn't deserve to succeed. I understand the reason for the employment questionnaire in the North, but if everyone was 'religion-blind' in the North, then there would be no need for the survey.

Back on Topic - justify the difference in the insurance quotation.

Anyone?

MarkR

I'm from the states and I didn't feel particularly outraged to be asked this. Not saying this is a good reason, but it's a reason. Quite often Irish insurers won't give you a NCB, or even recognition of previous experience if it wasn't gained it Ireland. My aunt's boyfriend was a trucker in the UK for 15 years, no claims etc, and had to start from scratch here. Wouldn't apply to the american / korean example you gave of course. I'm sure there are different requirements for licences in some countries (can't think how they could be more lax than ireland though - never driven before but can afford insurance - no problem, failed your test? Have a nice drive home..) I don't have the exact criteria.

Btw, the nationality thing bugs you, but not the testicle taxation? They already decide that you're risky if you're a male driver, and god help you if you are under 25. Where do you draw the line? My age and sex are personal? How about the type of car you drive? Where you will mostly be using the car, surely that's more big brother spying on you? And how about the relationship to other drivers, you good with that? Profession - why do they want to know that? It's all for statistical data. You can bet that they have some nice little multipliers added on for different nationalities. All can be considered dumb questions.

The main thing is, is the question relevant? You think no, I think yes. Different countries have different speed limits, different traffic laws, throw languages into the mix and you have some difficulty. In a hypothetical situation, if a visitor to Ireland couldn't read English, had no knowledge of driving on urban roads, and only previous experience had been driving say.... across open desert with no roads? (extreme example i know, but possible) Compare that to someone who can read the signs, and is familiar (hopefully!) with Irish road traffic laws.

Mark

MadsL

Fundamental issue here is take two drivers, one American, one Korean. Same age, sex, occupation, no claims, convictions etc etc. Both living in Ireland same length of time, both holding an Irish Licence for less than a year. Most insurance companies would quote the same because the do not have the nationality question.

However, the company that does ask about nationality quoted the Korean at 2,500 euro higher than the American.

Now your point...

Different countries have different speed limits, different traffic laws, throw languages into the mix and you have some difficulty. In a hypothetical situation, if a visitor to Ireland couldn't read English, had no knowledge of driving on urban roads, and only previous experience had been driving say.... across open desert with no roads? (extreme example i know, but possible) Compare that to someone who can read the signs, and is familiar (hopefully!) with Irish road traffic laws

The example I quoted was someone living in Ireland for 3 years. Hardly visitors. Both these individuals have FULL Irish licences which means that they have completed and passed both a written theory test (in English) and a competency based driving test and passed that too. They have the same level of ability to drive and understanding of the rules of the road and signage as an Irish person with a full licence. In fact they have a greater level of competency than the Irish person on a 2nd provisional driving unaccompanied and probably paying considerably less insurance.

When I spoke to the insurance company they said that nationality does not affect the premium and that it's purpose was validation to prevent insurance fraud. However I proved today that the insurance company's underwriting system contains a loading depending on nationality. That is seriously questionable practice and I feel possibly illegal. I will be taking this further.

unkel

Originally posted by MadsL
That is seriously questionable practice and I feel possibly illegal. I will be taking this further.

Couldn't agree more m8

Victor

MadsL, discrimination is permitted where there is a sound statistical basis, what you will have to prove is there is no sound statistical basis for the discrimination. Can you compare an American and a Korean who have been living here for say 20 years?

Originally posted by eth0_
Wasn't this changed/going to be changed? There were so many non-nationals coming into the country to give birth purely to gain the right to live here because they would be the parent of an Irish national, that it was going to be changed.

People have suggested it be changed, but no proposal has been made.

Originally posted by eth0_
The UK changed this in their constitution for exactly this reason.

The UK has no formal constitution, merely law, tradition and precedent.

Originally posted by lucian
You are not up to date on this, but that was changed in January this year.

You are perhaps confusing this with a supreme court judgement saying that parents of an Irish person don’t automatically have the right of residence, that it should be based on length of time the parent was in Ireland (two years too little, seven years enough).

Originally posted by eth0_
Here's something else that'll set you off, madsl, in the north when you apply for a job you have to tell them what religion you are. If you refuse, they'll find out by looking at what school you went to. IT'S A DISGRACE I SAYS! <small>Actually, no one in N Ireland really cares </small>

Much the same applies here, you can ask the questions, but they have to be on a separate anonymous questionnaire.

MadsL

what you will have to prove is there is no sound statistical basis for the discrimination

All other things being equal I cannot see where they are getting their statistics from. No other insurance company gathers this type of data. I assume they are making it up as they go along..

MadsL

Despite the underwhelming support on this issue from this forum...The Irish Times and the Equality Commission took this up and now...Quinn Direct will no longer discriminate on nationality grounds...

see post on MIJAG here

Our man in Havana

Good on you! Is the ruling online anywhere? Were Quinn fined any money?

MadsL

No, there is no ruling. QD just decided that they were not going to ask these questions anymore. The Equality commission are pretty snowed under, but I can't help wondering if they rang Quinn Direct and told them to drop it, or face a court case...

Anyway, back to sleep people...the world is safe again. :rolleyes:

Tommy Vercetti

If they rang QD, they were probably put on hold for 4 hours and gave up

Gmodified

Madsl,
Did I hear this American story at the last Mijag meeting?

Anyway,

Mate from work came over here from states and couldn't get any insurance dispute the fact that he was driving 14 years in US and had all the paper work.

This has nothing to do with statistics

go here :
http://services.hibernian.ie/direct/HibernianDirectWeb/motor_assum.jsp

and check this out:

You and your Named Drivers have not resided outside the Republic of Ireland or United Kingdom at any time during the last 5 years.
All drivers must hold an Irish Driving License.

WTF?

What if you are Irish and came back from US after 8 years. Would you get a quote?

Yes, as your name and accent would be right ,unless you insist that you just came from US after 8 years (but would you?)

sad but true and confirmed

MadsL

Yes, that was me at the MIJAG meeting.

All drivers must hold an Irish Driving License.

This HAS to be illegal. Surely if an EU license is acceptable by the State then insurance companies cannot refuse a quote. My wife did however have to take an Irish test, as she had to get company insurance.

I'll be checking this out tomorrow. Has your mate been refused everywhere?

Gmodified

All drivers must hold an Irish Driving License.

this is complete bull...





Anyway, the guy from work is finally insured but this was long battle and the only way to do it, was to insure his wife as main driver. To make things worst , she came from US too. So, they could buy a car but couldn't insure it, insane. Not mentioning that after all this they pay mad premium to have this standard luxury.

THis brings you back to Earth after driving 5ltr Chevrolets

We are special

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by MadsL
Despite the underwhelming support on this issue from this forum...The Irish Times and the Equality Commission took this up and now...Quinn Direct will no longer discriminate on nationality grounds...

see post on MIJAG here

I rang QD yesterday for a quote and they are still asking the nationality questions.