Utd v Blackburn (scores Inside)

The Muppet

Half time Utd 2 Blackburn 0, Ruud and kleberso on target, the build up to Klebeson goal was great stuff with Ruud, Bellion and fortune combining to leave Kleb to score.
If Utd win they go top for a few hours anyway.

For balckburn yorkie is having a stinker and has played some nice passes to Utd players, maybe he's confused and thinks he is still playing for utd.:D

Cue Yorke to score a hat trick 2nd half.

The Muppet

Final score Utd 2 Blackburn1 . A game of 2 halves with blackburn playing much better after the break. They could easily have got some points with a Yorke dissallowed for offside and other good chances wasted.

jesus_thats_gre

The second half was a totally different game. But overall United were more threathening when they attacked and were not overly tested in the box.. Yorkes disallowed goal was the correct decision I think, Gallagher was effectively interferring with play even though he didnt touch the ball...

As for Gresko, that chap should be put down.

smemon

alright from utd overall, did the job. im beginning to think howard has the finest pair of hands in the world now (not just saying this as a utd fan). his handling from bouncing, low shots is absolutely suberb. the ball sticks to them like glue and he is as solid as shmeichael was. makes himself big and and spreads himself well.

g.neville had a good game, supported the attacks well. the 2 cb's were shakey but did make some crucial clearances. bellion looked lively but was poor in the 2nd half. keane his usual self, man of the match AGAIN. kleberson was alright, looks a useful squad player. ruud fed of scraps mostly and still played well.

c.ronaldo was a delight to watch, people say he gets nowere with stepovers but its so entertaining and lifts everyone, including the players. skint a few defenders on 2 or 3 occasions and got decent crosses in. only on for about 20 mins but he's a great asset to utd in that if they need a bit of life injected, they can bring him on.

blackburn played well up to the final 3rd of the pitch, really lacked ideas and creativity there.

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by smemon
alright from utd overall, did the job. im beginning to think howard has the finest pair of hands in the world now (not just saying this as a utd fan).

But you are saying it after 20 or so games, which is ridiculous.

The Muppet

But you are saying it after 20 or so games, which is ridiculous.

Why is he being ridiculous ? Howard was recently voted best premiership goalkeeper in a poll here and his performances supports that view.

TwoShedsJackson

And we know how balanced that poll was :rolleyes: He cannot be judged as best keeper in the world (!) on the basis of half a season. What about Toldo or Buffon, to name but two, world class keepers for many seasons now.

Oh yeah, they don't play for Man U so they don't exsist as far as smemon is concerned.

ShriekingSheet

Rovers Fan

My own match kicked off at 2pm so I only got to see the first half. Glad to hear rovers put on a decent show in the 2nd. I thought they were gutsy for the part I saw. They played with respect but not fear of united which is obv the only way you're gonna get a sniff of a result at old trafford! United goals were good and I thought as a team they really looked good.

The continuing criticism that rovers are "lacking ideas in the final third" is what worries me most. It seems all three of Cole, Jansen and Yorke are having the odd good game each but nothing resembling consitencey!

Thomson's creativity is definitely being missed, especially without Tugay on the pitch also. That said i thought Ferguson and Flicroft battled hard today but unfortunately that's all theyre good at really!

United played well. Not all doom and gloom for Rovers!

The Muppet

And we know how balanced that poll was

The only people with the ability to edit polls are mod/admin are you suggesting that there was something underhand done on that poll. I would find that strange as none of the mods are Utd. supporters and I doubt very much if they would do something so petty even if they were.

He cannot be judged as best keeper in the world (!) on the basis of half a season. What about Toldo or Buffon, to name but two, world class keepers for many seasons now.

Are you of the opinion that Howard has only become a goalkeeper since his move to Utd? He is an established International goalkeeper keeping Brad Friedel/Casey Keller, 2 excellent keepers out of the USA first team. Howard may not be the best keeper in the world but on his recent performances he certainly should not be dismissed totally when considering this.

Oh yeah, they don't play for Man U so they don't exsist as far as smemon is concerned.

smermon like the rest of us is entitled to his opinion. As far as I can see everytime he posts a positive comment about the team he supports he ends up having to endlessly justify his reasons for expressing his opinions by the same minority here. I,m sure others here see that too and its boring at this stage. Change the Record.

ShriekingSheet

I think by the polls being allegedly imbalanced he was simply referring to the fact that the majority of voters may have been man u fans which is no ones fault!

other than that Im staying well the hell outta this one ha ha!

smemon

Originally posted by The Muppet
smermon like the rest of us is entitled to his opinion. As far as I can see everytime he posts a positive comment about the team he supports he ends up having to endlessly justify his reasons for expressing his opinions by the same minority here. I,m sure others here see that too and its boring at this stage. Change the Record.

exactly, every post i need 101 points to back it up with. did u see howard today and this season in general?? he has by far the best handling in the premiership at the minute. he never spills difficult hard, low, bouncing shots which even toldo and buffon have been known to do. keeping out friedel, barthez and keller means you have a hell of alot of ability. 7 clean sheets in 13 league games is a record anyone would be proud of. as far as im concerned, theres no debate here, howard despite being here half a season has already proved he's a top keeper.

The Muppet

I think by the polls being allegedly imbalanced he was simply referring to the fact that the majority of voters may have been man u fans which is no ones fault!

According to yet another poll there are more Livepool fans here than fans of any other team, also in the thread on the best premiership keeper many of the contributors who declared Howard as their choice were not Utd. supporters.

ShriekingSheet

Originally posted by The Muppet
According to yet another poll there are more Livepool fans here than fans of any other team, also in the thread on the best premiership keeper many of the contributors who declared Howard as their choice were not Utd. supporters.

So you really think it was simply rigged?

If you're right that's really sad!

But I really hope you're not!!

BKtje

No he doesnt think it was rigged, he thinks that people believed Howard to be the best keeper atm in the Premiership.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Funny that he is considered best keeper in the Premiership even though behind a better defence than Birmingham's he has conceded more goals than Maik Taylor. To me that woulod suggest that Maik Taylor is currently the best keeper in he premiership. But that is only my unbiased view (as Jerzey Dudek is certainly not a contender atm).

BKtje

i dont say i agree with them about him being the best just explaining that i dont think the vote was rigged (what mod would be petty enough to rig it!?).

He's good but i dunno about the best, in time perhaps

Mossy Monk

i think that the Kleberson goal is a worthy contender for Goal Of The Month. it was brilliant. it has been a long time since i have seen a goal like that

The Muppet

Posted by Bkdzr
No he doesnt think it was rigged, he thinks that people believed Howard to be the best keeper atm in the Premiership.

Thank you BKDZR, thats it exactly.

Posted by Thanx 4 the Fish
Funny that he is considered best keeper in the Premiership even though behind a better defence than Birmingham's he has conceded more goals than Maik Taylor.

Funny that your stats are wrong. Howard has conceded 8 goals in 13 appearences, Taylor has conceded 11 goals in 12 appearences.
I use this source for soccer stats, I find they are always accurate and up to date . .;)

Posted by BKDZR
i dont say i agree with them about him being the best.

I didnt say who I thought was the best keeper, I only commented on the result of the recent poll . I dont really buy into the who's best arguement but if pushed I would share your opinion on Howard.

i think that the Kleberson goal is a worthy contender for Goal Of The Month. it was brilliant. it has been a long time since i have seen a goal like that

Wxcellent Goal all right and nice to see the new guys combining so well , it augers well for the future to see them with that understading of each other so early in their Utd careers.

BKtje

i dont say i agree with them about him being the best

Was talking about the people who voted in the pole

The Muppet

Was talking about the people who voted in the pole

No probs, wasn;t sure which " Them" you were referring to (Smermon and myself or the voters in the poll) . Thanks for the clarification anyway.:)

<Edited especially to save BKDZR further confusion >;)

BKtje

unless you have a split personality i dont think it could have been you

I don't think ive actually made an on topic post yet in this thread so id better make one

DIdn't see much of the match, (only what i saw on the 2 premierships) but Man u seemed to have been a bit lucky at times in the 2nd half after they took the pedal off the gas. Luckily it wasnt costly.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Interesting that you say that Muppet, Taylor has made more saves (45) than Howard (28) and he was not in goals for three of those so he has only concede 8. The same number as Tim. Perhaps you should check your stats again......

Perhaps you would look less of a fool if you checked your facts before you used them to correct me. I had not taken into account the scores of Saturdays games as I had not seen them now I have, BTW those stats on saves made above do not include the last game.

The Muppet

Posted by Thankx 4 the fish
Interesting that you say that Muppet, Taylor has made more saves (45) than Howard (28) and he was not in goals for three of those so he has only concede 8. The same number as Tim. Perhaps you should check your stats again......

Thats interesting fish but IMO the number of saves a keeper has to make would be more of a reflection on his defence than his ability. I am unclear about your point on appearences as from my stats source it say Taylor has made 12 appearences and Howard 13 , they both have had 7 clean sheets , but howard has played one game more and Taylor has conceded 11 goals and howard has conceded 8. These are the official premier league stats so I would assume they are accurate.

Posted by Thankx 4 the fish
Perhaps you would look less of a fool if you checked your facts before you used them to correct me. I had not taken into account the scores of Saturdays games as I had not seen them now I have, BTW those stats on saves made above do not include the last game.

Perhaps you would look less a fool if when posting you used accurate information which included the full detail at the time of posting rather than leaving out information just because it would weaken your argument.

SCULLY

Originally posted by The Muppet
Thats interesting fish but IMO the number of saves a keeper has to make would be more of a reflection on his defence than his ability.

In fairness, you have to take into consideration the amount of saves a keeper makes as well as the amount of clean sheets - if a keeper pulls off 5 brilliant saves and then lets in a penalty, is he deemd less than say a keeper who keeps a clean sheet but has nothing to do during the game 'cos of a crap opposition?

Howard has made a great start to the season (though, btw, he's not the only one to keep 7 clean sheets) , but I think it is a bit early on to be talking about him as one of the best in the world etc (I don't know too much about his previous teams to comment on the rest of his career to date).

The Muppet

if a keeper pulls off 5 brilliant saves and then lets in a penalty, is he deemd less than say a keeper who keeps a clean sheet

No, But that does not necessarily make him better that a goalkeeper playing behind a better defence who keeps the clean sheet.

Howard has made a great start to the season (though, btw, he's not the only one to keep 7 clean sheets) , but I think it is a bit early on to be talking about him as one of the best in the world etc (I don't know too much about his previous teams to comment on the rest of his career to date).

I agree fully with you on that scully. There is a bit of history to this argument. Certain people here think Howard shouln,t come into the equation when considering who is the best goalkeeper in the prem . My arguement is that his performances and stats to date suggest that he should not be ruled out completely when considering this subject.

manic_monster

By some peoples argument - if chelsea signed Buffon(not beyond the realms of possibility either) would he not be considered to be the best because he had only played 5 games or so.

TwoShedsJackson

. My arguement is that his performances and stats to date suggest that he should not be ruled out completely when considering this subject.

I agree with Muppet here (!) - he looks a decent keeper and will in time probably be one of the best in the Premiership. I have never stated otherwise.


As for

if chelsea signed Buffon(not beyond the realms of possibility either) would he not be considered to be the best because he had only played 5 games or so.

Buffon has proved himself over the last seven seasons in Serie A, Howard was playing MLS, not quite the same standard.

The Muppet

Buffon has proved himself over the last seven seasons in Serie A, Howard was playing MLS, not quite the same standard.

Thats very true but discounts current form. All Players suffer disp in form from time to time so the best in any position last season may not necessarily be the best this season.

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by The Muppet
Thats interesting fish but IMO the number of saves a keeper has to make would be more of a reflection on his defence than his ability. I am unclear about your point on appearences as from my stats source it say Taylor has made 12 appearences and Howard 13 , they both have had 7 clean sheets , but howard has played one game more and Taylor has conceded 11 goals and howard has conceded 8. These are the official premier league stats so I would assume they are accurate.

Hold on, so the keeper making more saves reflects on the defence, but conceding more goals reflects on the keeper? Non United keepers just can't win, eh?

The Muppet

Hold on, so the keeper making more saves reflects on the defence,but conceding more goals reflects on the keeper?

Of Course it does as its the defences job to stop the opposition getting shots on goal (the better the defence the less shots the attackers get) , simple really.

Non United keepers just can't win, eh?

:rolleyes:

Thanx 4 The Fish

Again muppet, your stats are wrong, those 11 goals conceded by Birmingham include three that were scored after he was sent off in a game. You would really want to check out those stats of yours again.

The stats that are on the premeir league website seem to be those of the team rather than the player. Get a better source or perhaps watch games that feature teams other than Man U.

The Muppet

Again muppet, your stats are wrong, those 11 goals conceded by Birmingham include three that were scored after he was sent off in a game. You would really want to check out those stats of yours again.

Sorry fish,am I to take it that your stats are correct and the ones on the official premier league website are incorrect .

The stats that are on the premeir league website seem to be those of the team rather than the player.

If you understood the site when you looked at it you would have seen that you can select the stats for indivudal players. Please dont take your frustrations out on me because of your inability to understand a simple search applet on the site.

Get a better source or perhaps watch games that feature teams other than Man U.

Doesn't every game feature a team other than Man U.:D

jesus_thats_gre

Well this has just deteriated into crap again...

To be honest, the more saves a keeper makes and the less they concede make the keeper. You can remove the defence from the equation by simply comparing the amount of saves a keeper makes to the amount of goals they concede. Whether a defensive four is shoddy or not has nothing to do with it, it just gives the keeper more oppurtunities to prove himself.

A keeper that concedes 8 goals and makes 40 saves is statistically better tham a keeper who concedes 5 goals but only makes 15 saves. Thats really as simple as it gets in my opinion. Introducing other factors as clean sheets is just pointless really.

Thanx 4 The Fish

From the premier league website muppet.

Birmingham have conceded 11 goals in thirteen games. 3 of those were against manchester United, ya must remember the game I am sure you were gloating for days about it. In that game van Nistlrooy scored a penalty after Taylor got sent off. United went on to score two more in the game. That makes three. Elevn (team total goals scored against minus 3 (goals scored against them when Taylor was sent off in that game before the three goals were scored) equals 8.

Dispute it as you may, you are wrong Muppet. This is according to the website you were looking at. I was also using yahoo fantasy footy scores and the opta stats.

Anything else I can help you with today tinky ?

cournioni

There is more to it than just stats, but I agree, Taylor is the best in the Prem at the moment. I voted for him in the goalkeeping poll anyway.

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by The Muppet
Of Course it does as its the defences job to stop the opposition getting shots on goal (the better the defence the less shots the attackers get) , simple really.

That's only half of it.

If Taylor making more saves reflects a poor defence rather than Taylor being a good keeper, how does Howard conceding less goals reflect him being a good keeper instead of him simply having a good defence in front of him?

The ratio of saves to goals here seems key to me, and Howard lets in a lot more per shot than Taylor.

James Hunt

Football is more than stats. Sparky Hughes never got 40 goals in a season but you would have to say he was one of the best strikers around at the time. Same goes for Howard and Taylor. They are both cool enough, but as to who is better - well the stats don't do it.

Who would you pick in your side? Howard or Taylor? That is how you know who is better - you sure as hell don't go on the internet and argue the validity of various statistical websites as to who you put in goal.

The Muppet

Fair enough but on the premier league site they under player stast Taylor has conceded 11 goals. Its there for all to see , if its wrong thats not my fault is it.

I repeat I didnt say Howard was the best keeper but should not be discounted either. I think i have made that point clear in my previous posts but you seem to want to ignore that. You appear to have a problem with some Utd Supporter lat week it was Rodney trotter and it appears to be nine this week , maybe your in a bad mood or just homesick but whatever I think you should take astrofools advice from last week.

Anything else I can help you with today tinky ?

Thats the second time you have accused me of that. I suggest you get the IP logs checked before you make this false allegations again. Either prove this allegation or withdraw it .

Thanx 4 The Fish

Is that you admitting that both you and your source were wrong muppet, well wonders will never cease.

Sorry fish,am I to take it that your stats are correct and the ones on the official premier league website are incorrect .

At least you can say that you did post at least one thing right today.

ZENER

quote:
Anything else I can help you with today tinky ?



er! not that Iknow of !!!

Tinky

ZENER