Suicide

Kold

Guy in my school commit suicide last night. I only joined this year and i can't say he was one of my closest mates, in fact he kinda annoyed me tbh. The thing is his ex-gf and her sister, his previous ex and his best friend's girlfriend are some of my closest friends. I was absolutely shocked when i heard, just 3 hours ago but as usual with the moment i just wrote what i felt down.

The first 3 girls mentioned were sent home before we were all told, his best friend's gf was the only one who hadn't. I spent over an hour comforting her until she went home. I convinced her that her and her bf needed to have some time alone to think before they talked about it between themselves and i think i handled it fairly well.

The fact is that his gf had broken up with him a week previously and I had spent all my time with her and her sister. I always felt that he resented me for how I was the new guy in their life. In fact i had a little thing for both of them. I'm not going to pretend that he was my best friend OR that I could feel the same pain that others are feeling. I do feel that we could've got on better. I could see that he wasn't 100% but the fact is that he was always so confident. He always had a smile on his face. He didn't have any guy friends but he got on with a lot of the girls.

Is it weird that i have gotten over it so fast? I mean when i think about it it's really ****ed up. I mean when i try to picture what was going through his head its insane. ffs it was such a stupid solution. What i say makes sense in my mind but i feel bad when i say it.

I dunno, I'm being so objective and deep down i do feel shítty. This is a really mind blowing situation and I've never had much of a first hand experience dealing with death. I mean what I've written makes sense to me:

Just be honest
Don't pretend that you were great friends if you weren't
Don't distance yourself and pretend that this doesn't affect you in any way
Don't feel bad because you feel you should
Don't shrug this experience off
Sometimes i think he thought of me as a usurper because i love the ones he loved
Sometimes i think we could have been friendlier instead of barbarically civil
He made me laugh occasionally but he pissed me off more often than not
I looked at him and believed him arrogant when now i have been clearly proven wrong
I wish to god we could've been better friends, that i could have somehow helped him but i know that its just bull****
Do mourn for him for it is the right thing to do
His death is hard to fathom and for some incredibly painful
But it has opened our eyes to one mans torment
That we must not take for granted

But I don't feel good writing it.
I fell I've misunderstood the situation and am reacting wrong. I dont think i can prove good comfort to them with that point of view. I dunno..

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Kold
I dont think i can prove good comfort to them with that point of view. I dunno..

I'm sorry to hear that Kold

as for being good comfort, all you really can do under such circumstances is be there, nothing else is required of you

CivilServant

So the gist of your sorrow (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you wish you could of been a little bit kinder and more real to him instead of reacting to his arrogance or his persona. Fact of the matter is some people you don't like but when they die things get put in perspective. Now you want to take human interaction with a little bit more sincerity because whatever you do might affect someone elses life for the better or worse.

Ultimately, people who were mean to him feel some responsibility for what happened. This is normal but in no way the view to take on this. A man is responsible for his own actions good or bad. The feelings are burning strong now because its so soon after the news. Let the emotions settle in and grieve possibly. See how you feel in a weeks time.

koneko

You can't pretend to like people and go through life pleasing everyone else in case something bad happens. If you didn't get on with him then why should that be a problem? You can't be friends with everyone! You have done nothing wrong.

All you can do for the mo as ruthie said is be there for your friends, because they are in pain, and the fact that you weren't best mates with him doesn't change that. They can use someone like you right now to talk to and comfort them, like a rock. The fact that you won't cry along with them won't mean you're less of a friend or comfort to them, it might even help. Sometimes it's easier to talk about things like this with people that don't share the exact same feelings you do, instead of crying along with them you can talk to them and help them get through it.

Hope that makes sense

ferdi

heavy.

either way its not your fault. just be there for the people close to you who are grieving, thats all you can do.

uberwolf

you can't go through life wondering if its going to be the last time you see someone, etc. equally before cutting someone down, reflect. I see no evidence that you were inappropriate or unpleasant.
As you say this was a problem he had for some reason, terrible solution (if you can even call it that).
You can be genuinely sympathetic to people for their pain and not really understand the reason for their pain.
I'm not sure what else to say.
E

Caffine

Originally posted by Beruthiel
as for being good comfort, all you really can do under such circumstances is be there, nothing else is required of you

exactly what B and koneko said.

you care about your friends thats what matters, best thing you can do (talking from experience) is just be there for them, if they need to talk then listen, if they need to cry then give them a shoulder to cry on.

in fact my cousin also killed himself last night and we also only found out this morning, sounds a lot like what happend with him, scary coincidence.

a friend of mine is being there for me, even if u dont say anything youd be suprised how much it helps

mr_angry

I wouldn't blame yourself. Nobody can know the mind of others, and I don't want to seem insensitive here, but he may have been just as much to blame for the misconception of his 'arrogant' persona as you. Unfortunately, we can't get along with everybody in life - thats just the way it is. I'm sure his actions were shocking to you, but is there anything wrong with what you did? By the sounds of things, you did your very best to be amicable with the guy. Even with the benefit of hindsight, you may not have been able to do any different.

As for what you wrote down - I agree with a lot of it. Don't try to dismiss the experience, but try to learn from it instead. People often put up a facade to try to hide what they're really feeling. Perhaps this knowledge might, in some circumstances be useful in the future. As for dealing with death, or feeling some loss - everybody reacts to these experiences differently. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to do it. When my grandparents died, I felt little or no sense of loss - I don't know why. Yet when I found out my Da had cancer recently (but he turned out to be fine), I was blubbering like a little girl. Perhaps I valued my Da a bit more than my grandparents, but it was still a very, very different experience for me, especially when I expected to deal with the situations in exactly the same way. Just because you dont feel anything now, doesn't mean that you're destined to forever be labelled "cold", nor does it make you a bad person.

Best of luck.

M.

star gazer

Kold, you seem to have the answers to your questions in you already. It's not your fault that he chose to kill himself, it's not his X's fault. As a society we seem to be somewhat under-prepared to cope with people who feel there is no other choice but to kill themselves. The pain may have just been too much for him and he couldn't see the future that could have been in front of him. As has been said, be there for your friends but also be there for yourself, feel the emotions when you can and let the reality sink in as time goes by. What doesn't break us will make us stronger..

][cEMAN**

Kold when anybody dies there's really nothing I know of you can do to help. Just being there is as much as anybody can expect to do. The thing is when it's something like this it's not just about a death, there's confusion everywhere as well as people find this hard to understand on top of coping with it. So if want to help just be there for them.

Also don't be freaked that you don't much feel anything. I've had people close to me die and I didn't feel anything at the time. I wasn't really that close to them but I expected something cause they were relatives. The thing is I felt something years later but I think it was more shock at the time because I was there when it happened. In a situation like this, as I said it's not just about death it's about shock.

As for not understanding what happened as he always seemed confident and had a smile on his face.....some people are just good at covering up. I always think back to that song 'Tracks of my Tears'

"So take a good look at my face. You'll see my smile looks out of place. If you look closer it's easy to trace...the tracks of my tears"

Sometimes people hurt but because of our own lives we never take time to see it. Sometimes even when we do take time, people can just cover it up well. Atm it's more about taking time for people to get over it.

angelofdeath

sorry to hear about that kold, i know the story it happened at my school twice a few years back, i know it comes as a shock and everything but at the risk of sounding insensitive, i think you're taking this to heart too much, you didnt know the guy that well and no matter how much you think things could have been different, they're not, so ya gotta stop thinking about it and just try to comfort your friends

Kold

This is my first time dealing with such a close death, i mean when my grandparents died I didn't feel it that much since they lived in California and I have very few memories of them but the hour after we were told i think I recounted every encounter i had with him.

2 stuck in my mind, the 1st was when i first went to get dinner with his xgfs sister and we met up with them. We got on alright, I kinda felt alienated since they all knew eachother so well but he was nice enough I guess, he was the one that suggested that me n her had a thang going on (there was chemistry) n kinda embarassed us both.

Then a myriad of memories of him irritating me when he took on condescending tones and acted a pure smart ass in class.

The second was after the 2 broke up, last wednesday i think. Me and my mate returned early from lunch n were heading downstairs and he was reading alone on the stairs. When we passed and he was out of sight I commented how he annoyed me to my friend.

God, his ex is the sweetest girl in the world and i dont know how this is going to affect her. I think I'm going to refrain from contacting her as she's going to have a million things going through her mind anyway (doubtless she'll be out of school for a while). But I won't even know how to talk to her when she returns.

I can't see why I'm feeling this so hard. I mean I hardly knew the guy but Im usually able to take this sort of thing. I like to think that I can get over anything by working things out logically and calmly with understanding. I just can't understand this.

Paddy20

Kold,

Suicide is shocking, you would not be human if you were not confused and distraught over this tragedy, there are no easy answers. Give yourself time to grieve as well.

No one really understands, why people choose this method of opting out of life. Try and be strong, for those who need you, but remember that you also will be touched with deep emotion, and may also need support. Do not neglect yourself, at this time.

P.

Capt'n Midnight

About the only americanism that rings true.
Suicide is a permemant solution to a temporary problem

Anyway some people who think about suicide think that others will feel guilty etc. afterwards, but life goes on. While you might worry "what if I did something different" but you can't protect everyone from themselves, especially people you don't know well.

Anyway back on topic - the others are probably so preoccupied that they won't pay much attention to what you are doing, but they should be concious of the fact that you are around and remember it later..

BigCon

When someone dies prematurely (whether we were close to them or not) we normally do some soul searching (e.g. what's it all about, is there an afterlife, would I have done anything differently if I had known etc). This is completely normal and imo is part of the "getting over it" process (to put it bluntly).
My advise to you is this:
Don't do too much soul searching as it could drive you crazy,
Keep an eye on the girls (esp the one who recently broke up with him), as people (esp young people) unfortunatly can sometimes be affected some much that they could attempt something similiar (sometimes a suicide in an area can trigger off more suisides or attempted suisides)...
Hopefully everyone will handle it okay and as Brian Kennedy put it "Get on with your short life"...
That's my tuppence worth, for what it's worth...

ali.g

kold, people live and die no point in mourning and wondering and souls searching it wil get you knowwhere, live life to max and take it day by day...as for suicide mand im not being ignorant but that is a selfish thing to do ....fair nuff life mite be **** for him...but life is **** for people fighting got cancer in the hospital...their fighting to live ...and he probably was healthy himself.....an what about the people who cared for him like your friends i mean his suicide has them and his parents and family awful grief that they wil never forget.....im not tryin to say dont feel bad but just try think of what was the point in doing such a terrible thing to the loved ones around him.....

hipchick

You can never really know whats going on in someones head, so don't be beating yourself up ... people are very good at hiding their true self.
I think the only thing you can do is just to be there for your friends and help them through this tramatic time.

Be strong for the one around you, their going to need it!

Kold

I made my thoughts clear to the girl i was closest to today. She told me that she couldn't tell me how much being around for her yesterday meant to her. She advised me that i should be there at the removal tonight and at the funeral tomorrow night.

God I don't know how I'll be able to cope with seeing his ex. I don't really think it would be appropriate for me to attend the actual funeral but she said she wanted me there. Time to be strong i guess.

AngelofFire

Im really sorry to hear that man. Ive been in your position before and a couple of months later another one of my friends came close to taking his life. I felt really guillty myself after it wondering if there was anything i could do to prevent it. but the reallity of it was that i couldnt.

your friends suicide is the result of his own inner problems. neither you or his ex gf are responsible for his happiness or well being at the end of the day. i dont mean to be harsh but quite frankly someone who only hangs around with girls has something missing up top. its a very unfortunate situation to be in but life must go on.

take it one day at a time pal. i know its hard.

RopeDrink

I am absolutely sick of the continuous "Tis A Selfish Thing To Do" bollocks.

My aunt jumped infront of a speeding underground train due to schizophrenia - Does that make her selfish?

I attempted suicide three times, and I know a hell of a lot of people (Who are quite close to me) who have attempted it aswell, and by god we aren't selfish people.

Suicide goes through stages. Firstly, something nasty has to happen (Unless you're a member of a suicide cult who sacrifice themselves to some **** god or crap) and when that does happen, you begin to get your brain motor running over and over this problem. It starts off positive - How could you stop this problem? Whom should I go to? What will I do then? Is this the right choice? etc etc but if you're unfortunate enough to spiral down into any form of depression, rational thinking goes out the window. You start to believe that there is no way out, you start to believe that no one can help you and thats when you start crying out for help in a way that makes you out to be a stupid and selfish bastard... In short, you ask for help by blatantly denying you need help or refusing to accept the help you are being offered. It's similar to the way that alcoholics and drug users automatically become full time liars. They are only doing it to get their hands on the things they "think" they need.

So, do you think you'd automatically realise that this person was chronically depressed and wanted to top himself? Of course not, because he hasn't got the braincells to stop for a moment and just ask for help properly because said braincells have been gobbled up by the overwhelming feeling of impending doom, failure, pain, loneliness, imprisonment and many other feelings. And then, suddenly, your mind bings!

"I've tried everything, I've tried everyone - What do I do? Nobody cares! IT HURTS TOO MUCH"

And next thing you know you're doing something that wouldn't even flash to mind if you were actually feeling good! I'm not exactly fond of hieghts but I damn well remember standing on that third floor balcony in the flats wondering how the hell I got there, and then just not thinking at all and going for it. Some cases of suicide are (And this will sound nasty to some) outright pathetic and laughable. For one, people who kill themselves because they thought their favouite band told them through their music to do so, or because you just felt bad because nothing went your way during the day.

But putting themselves aside, you will find that those who wanted to commit suicide (seriously now) never wanted to do so in the first place and yet they're selfish?
If you have a problem, and there is an abvious route to solving that problem, you go down that route instantly. When you have a problem, and your brain continuously tells you that the route is in the opposite direction and you feel you have no choice but to go there, you'll do it regardless.

As for Kold's case, well, if you were prepared to kill yourself at a young age over a relationship, then apologies for being harsh but that is just lame. Of course, the people who knew the guy wouldn't say that and will always have their own opinion about the situation. Don't "comfort" the people who feel bad about it because that'll effectively prolong the feeling of guilt and sadness. Merely be there for them with open ears and, if they're the emotional type, the odd hug and reassurance - And feel free to allow yourself to grieve if you so wish, but for the love of god don't grieve over something like this for too long because if such a thing should happen again you're basically preserving the same demons so that they can come back and haunt you again later.

And don't beat yourself over the "Oh I should have been nicer" thing.
You were living your life the way you wanted, as was he. he decided to go down that road, and I'm sure you didn't influence him in some way, so it's not your fault.

Hope that helped somehow - I tend to get a little sentimental with threads like these.
All the best.

Kold

I don't think it was because of her at all. Apparently he had a history of depression and had attempted to before. I'm told that he told her he wanted to go on a break and then she told him they weren't getting back together again.

People have been saying that they respect his decision as he did what he felt was right but I can't stand to hear that sh1t. I think that he was removed from any kind of reasonable thinking and did it almost zombie like. I don't think it's important. I think the only important thing right now is helping the girls. But last night, after seeing her, all I could think was "HOW COULD HE DO THIS TO HER?"

ali.g

manthat sucks feeling like that i know how you feel.....i had my older brother die a painful death in a hospital over cancer....2 years later my best friend was killed in a car accident.....after that the theory of life went out the window....i was as lonely as if i were in the sahara desert....but things pick up....its all about mind control...life aint all good...if at least at all but you have to make do with what you have...think about things that mean something in your life....friends family whatever it is and try enjoy your time being around.....you have to try be happy in yourself and your own life before you can enjoy life....try talkin to your friends about what your feeling or talk to someone dont try fight this by yourself as help is there whether you think it or not....anyways man hope things pick up for ya!

Kold

That's why i came here... I couldn't face the others with these things in mind. Whenever one of them has asked me how i was i told them fine. I don't need nor want to talk to them face to face about this. The only person I do particularly want to talk to is his ex. not neccesarily about this but about anything. I hate talking to people about things like this face to face. Its one of the best things about the net. I can say whatever I want without putting my real life character in jeapardy. I don't want them to know how i felt about him. My feelings aren't important. All my concern is towards them. God I don't even know what I want. A million things are running through my mind and I feel I've got to let it out.

Caffine

Originally posted by RopeDrink
I am absolutely sick of the continuous "Tis A Selfish Thing To Do" bollocks.

My aunt jumped infront of a speeding underground train due to schizophrenia - Does that make her selfish?

I attempted suicide three times, and I know a hell of a lot of people (Who are quite close to me) who have attempted it aswell, and by god we aren't selfish people.

couldnt agree more, many friends of mine have tried it, i used to go out with a girl that cut herself when things got bad, iv never thought one of them was selfish and anything they did never had a negitive affect on what i thought about um.

on a side note, as kold said it wasnt to do with his gf leaveing him, he had alot of issues and attempted it many times before (the person kold is refering to was my cousin)

RopeDrink

Kold - Whether it was the relationship that caused him to do this, or his previous acts of depression or whatnot - There is one solid fact here that applies to suicide (And the whole debate of 'selfishness')

The only thing that is selfish about a 'serious' suicide is the fact that said victim is denying his/herself their own chances at finding the positive things in life. I honestly couldn't tell you how I got through my suicide attempts (Unscathed at least) and now that I have I am proud to say that I am mentally stronger than most people, and have learned an exceptional amount from my actions. These days it takes a HELL of a lot to shock / suprise / worry / depress me seeing as my tolerance for **** sky rocketed the day I sat there and simply thought about what I had gone through, what I had done and that fact that I must have been a strong **** to get where I was.

Whomever this guy is, he has only cheated himself out of that opportunity.
Maybe he was mentally weak - Maybe he really was having his brains wracked to the point he couldn't take it - maybe it was an attempt at attention seeking - Who knows?

The only thing clear here is that it was his choice, and nobody elses - So you are mad to beat yourself up about it.
The general outlook on problems here on the PI forum is the infamous "Talk To A Councelor (sp)"

It works for some, but I find that talking to 'anybody' can help - So why don't you STOP comforting, vent your opinion to the point you understand the situation (Once you understand, it's easier to get over) and then close the book on it. Otherwise you'll be checking this forum for ages praying that someone else has the answer, which (most likely) nobody will.

Webmonkey

I agree with RopeDrink on how people that do away with themselves are known as "Selfish"....well it may seem selfish. I have never tried it, well i did feel down and depressed but not enough but I can only imagine what goes through their minds.

We will never know till the day we attempt it ourselves.

Also as for him having a Happy face and confident, well I go out to school everyday, I may seem i'm happy, i dunno i just feel i have to be happy and i seem confident to everyone but when i come home, its a whole new world. I down most of the time and Fighting a lot with everyone and its just another world when people are actually away from their friends