Q3A thoughs

Skyclad

Ok, this is probably going to end up a pretty long rant about my thoughts on the new demo-test.

Basically I thought there was a lot more bad then good in it, and the few improvements are generally stuff we already knew about.

First Im going to compare it to the previous versions of the test. The first noticable thing about the test is that there is a huge framerate drop from 1.08. I dont have a wonderful graphics card (yet), and while with tweaking I was able to get consistantly about 40-50 FPS in the first version, now Im lucky to get above 20, which is obviously unplayable. In addition to this, the graphics at that level have gotten far worse somehow.

I understand that this may be a temporary drawback, and I hope it is, but for now, I wasnt impresed to find this change after spending all night DLing it.

Next we have the new level, and by all accounts its another that will never get played, very very similar in nature to the q3tourney one - theres 2 locations to hold - the rl area and the ra/plasma gun area, and other bits and pieces in between, none of which are really worth holding. After taking the RA, Im sure it would be easy to do a circuit of the level before returning for the next RA spawn. The only thing that is stopping this is the fact that there isnt enough health on the level, and the new health spawn times make it even worse.

For some unknown reason we have heard huge amounts about how good the bots are, and to be honest, if they were up to scratch, then maybe the rest of the issues I have with the demo-(test!) might be survivable. But the bots are nowhere near what I expected them to be. Theres only 5 difficulty levels for a start, and while I can beat the skill 4 bots handily enough, the nightmare bots are just too good. Theres no 'in between' level, where I have to play a good game to win, else I dont.

Bot behaviour also just isnt anywhere near up to scratch. The first time I fired up the q3test2 level, I played on skill 2 as I just wanted to get through the demo to see the end. At one time, one of the bots stood still on the ra platform and took 5 shots at a guy on the rail platform. None of them were even close, and the fifth shot wasnt any better then the first. Then he moves away, not bothering to pick up the RA that has been sitting there all the time! Even the dumbest of humans knows that the RA is good and should be picked up.

One final gripe is their aim, at skill 4-5, a bot with a SG is like a timebomb, every .6 seconds (or whatever) he hits you again doing damage solely based on the distance he is from you. This brings back memories of the reaperbots when they get a shaft on you - you have a second or 2 to kill them, else you die. Frustrating as hell, and definately not that realistic - tell me of any player who will expect to hit you full force with a shotgun blast no matter what the difficulty of the shot?

I remember reading Carmacks initial plans for the bots - that they would get better and worse depending on how well you were playing, that they would behave in a completely 'human' manner. Well he hasnt convinced me yet, the UT bots are miles ahead IMO.

OK, moving on to the weapons. The shaft is better, the RL is better yes. But just try playing the shaft on r_picmip 5, it becomes a white sheet that takes up half your screeen and blinds you to the points that it is completely unplayable. Same as for the Plasma gun, send one glob of in in my direction, and Im blinded for the rest of the fight. Lots of fun, honest.

OK theres more - the footsteps, the networking issues, the need to authenticate it to a master server, item pickups, but Ill write about it some other time, Im sick of *****ing for the moment. Basically, ID rushed out a bad product in order to try to steal the limelight from UT's announcement that they had gone gold, and one can only hope that they dont decide to do the asme thing with the game when it comes to being released for real!

Id like to see someone write what they felt was good about the demo just for comparison btw.

Dave

amp

Okay,
Just got it up and running and after an hours play...

Graphics:
The frame rate is lower alright, much more jerky. I had to drop down a resolution from the one I used in 1.08.

The two other things I noticed the most was the shiney metal effect which moves when you move, and that curved surfaces get burnt now.
woooo!

Bots:
hmmmm I'd agree, I was wacking ass on level 3 hardness and I hadn't upped the mouse sensitivity yet. This surprised me as I have yet to develop l33t skillz.
Also there's something about them, I can't quite put my finger on it. They don't seem as real as UT's. I remember shouting at DubLan "Who's that Ares lad?" only to find out it was a bot

The new level:
Well apart from the mouth thing it's pretty crap really. Probably only good for dueling (which I presume it's been designed for).
Even so it reminds me of a Doom level.

And lastly a question. What exactly are GL extensions?

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[Insert cool quote here]
Play GLminesweeper!
http://www.iol.ie/~adamj/dl/mineswp.jpg

Koopa

gl extensions are good, turn them on

skyclad, you are getting a bad impression of the game because of your fps.. the graphics look better in the new version on my system (i still have everything turned off or down)

i think theres a problem with ATI rage graphics cards and q3test, because we had the same problem in college on ati cards(graphics look crapper than the previous version).. TNT based cards run fine though

i played the new map on a machine with 20fps (p400, ati rage 8 meg card), and i thought it was total crap, then i played it on a different machine with average 70fps (p433, tnt2 ultra) and thought the map was pretty good

Skyclad

Out of frustration, I just reinstalled the test from scratch and this time didnt exec my config before starting to play, instead setting all of the details to low. Sudenly my fps are back to what they used to be, ie 35-50ish, playable if not great. Could it be possible that one of the server variables has become fu><ored and is causing this drop?

Anyway, a bit more impressed, but not much.

Kali

just on the subject ofbots..
they never pick up a dropped quad
and when i was over on rail level doing
a bit of sniping i spotted all 4 bots turning
and trying to shoot me off.. none of them hit the platform...
a bit thick really

WhiteWashMan

there seems to be a bit of a delay on the rail gun which i dont like

not that impressed.
just like v1.08 but with bots and an xtra level
footstep sounds are crap too

i'll still buy it just so i can finish it, but apart from that i cant see myself playing it non stop like i did q2.

but ive all but given up q2 now apart from the odd ffa and a once a week ukccl match.

age of empires 2 is sooo much better
maybe im getting old

i think my bext purchase will be bass fishing for a few hours of relaxation
sick it on, pull up a chair, get a six pack in and sit on irc and talk

pass the slippers granma.....

El_Presidente

On the subject of bots you have to remember that (almost) everyone who reads this board is EXTREMLY good at fps games. We have all put in countless hours and even the worst of us should be able to give the Hardcore bots a run for their money.

Id on the other hand want this to be a newbie friendly product so while the lower skill levels may seem a bit lame and pointless to us they give a newbie to fps games something called a "learning curve" to bring them up to our level without the pain of having to be kicked around by ninjas for a few months on-line.

[This message has been edited by El_Presidente (edited 17-11-99).]

Jak

Well i thought the game looked pretty good,

Plasma gun graphics are a bit excessive, but i'm sure there's a Mod on the way which will sort that. I've already found one to thin out the smoke trail of the RL. And a lot can be done with the CFG itself also.

As for the Bots, well i took a beating on Hardcore level and only managed to win well on level 4 in the new level. They just don't miss on level 5 and the skins or something makes it too hard to spot them in time.

Also- there is a difference between individual bot characters isn't there? Cause Daemia and Sarge seem to be a cut above the others.

As regards FPS, mine have dropped but i think there is some glitch in the settings cause i have it on lower detail now and the FPS are lower too!

Anyway,

There's obviously a lot to be done ... but remember this is only the Demo Test ... so i'm sure they'll take note.


J.

Chaos

Ah put them on nightmare and slap 3 of them in a big rail level mosh....bet you get your ass kicked. I found they picked up droped quads too. It all depends on what level there skill is.
Dont forget that when there skill is low so is there respawn health!.

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www.gibworld.com/chaos
ps? 0wns U

Sonic

dont under any fuking circumstances exec ur old 1.08 config with 1.09 IF u have graphics commands in it dont put r_picmip higher than 3 or it looks so gay. i execed my old config in the new demo got 23 fps , rewrote a new one and took advantage of new commands hey presto 40 fps

Sonic

which it the framerate ive alway gotten

earthworm_jim

Sam - start an FFA on nightmare on Q3DM17 and add in just one Bot, Major. If you can beat her I'll be surprised. She lifts me into the air with her machinegun - and when she gets the rail I can't spawn. In a bigger FFA, the bots tend to damage each other and get distracted for a while, making them more beatable.

It's easy to make a bot that always wins. What's hard is making one that can give you a challenge without constantly kicking your butt.

I think they just need a level between hardcore and nightmare, which is where most of us seem to be.

I agree with ya sky - the demo looks rushed (hopefully!) to cover UT's gold announcment. Still loved playing it tho

MrBlonde

Goddam that RG takes sum gettin use to

Gerry

Jak,
how do you thin the rocket trail?
this trail ****s up my game and also
hits the fps. This will probably be regarded
as cheating soon but wtf i need any
advantage i can get
much obliged

creative

Skyclad...could you elaborate on the whole FPS suddenly got better please...as i find the same thing....used to be better.

Bots and maps are of little concern atm to me...they'll get better.

FPS FPS FPS...and whaoooo.....RG's back...faster weapon changes nice one!!


And last but not least all the excitment thats been missing for so long is back in the FPS community.


got these from somewhere...might even have been these boards...to lazy to check it out..but fo rthose of you on a low spec machine get these into yar config

r_mode 2
r_colorbits 16
r_texturemode GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_NEAREST
r_vertexlighting 1
r_subdivisions 999
r_lodbias 2
cg_gibs 0
cg_draw3dicons 0
cg_brassTime 0
cg_marks 0
cg_shadows 0
cg_simpleitems 1
cg_drawAttacker 0


and here a decent config site should you need one... http://q3a.pcgame.com/console/index.html

MoSeS_.

Anyone else there using a riva 128zx
again, shadows are showing through the walls with mine, not really complaining as I can see people coming round corners that way
has anyone else found this to be the case ?

hey collie, let me know how you get on with the ISDN

while I'm at it how does anyone in galway get a decent connect, is ISDN the best option ?

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Thou shalt not kill
But thou shall be Killed

Jak

The Smoke thinner is some mod i d/l'd a while ago, haven't installed it yet. Bit cautious about messing Q3 up as its already shaky enough.

Can mail it though.

J.

Koopa

mark, how do i record demos that WORK in q3demotest?
i just recorded one but i cant play it back using the demo browser

creative

indeed

creative

indeed

Koopa

then i must have gotten better with railgun or something, cos i played nightmare on the rail map on machines with 20 fps in college and the bots were EASY.. dont think there is anyone who can beat 3 skill 3 reaperbots on dm4 with 20 fps on aim alone

Koopa

i just put up a demo for you mark, "major" on nightmare skill , map q3dm17

www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~doomgod/major.zip

i cant get quake3 to play back any demos except the default ones, so i dont know if its a "good" demo, but its short..
"sarge" on q3tourney2 is even easier!

creative

so can one just play a demo straight off...no need for a crack?

Koopa

nice one collie

Koopa

i miss loads but the score is good!

creative

ya twas a better score than my first attempt at playing the bot...on nightmare on the new level... 10 2 to the *****!! I got whooped!!


the demo is NOT available!!

jArgHA

How do I play demos ? I've tried just typing (for example Koop's demo)
'\demo major' at the console when Q3 Test Demo first starts up. I have used the crack from above link and have the .dm3 file in baseq3 folder. Should it be in a subdirectory ??

Jedi

Sam,

You said you have a problem replaying your demo. Thats because you need to get the q3demo crack to convert you directories from demoq3 to baseq3.All the other versions needed this also. The crack is not out yet as far as I can see but I'll let you know when It does.

As recards the Bots in Q3. They do differ in strength considerably. I have beaten all the bots in Nightmare on q3test2 (q3dm17) in the tournment games, with only one bot causing difficulty and that was Major. But if you do what Earth Worm Jim said and start a FFA map with only 1 bot, major. Forget it. I did this and the outcome was, out of 8 matchs with her my hightest score was 4 with a fraglimit 20 and these 4 kills were scored in the first minute before she got the Rail Gun. I don't even want to mention the other 7 scores.

So that my aim for the next week of so to kick her ass and get a demo of me doing it. Rarrrrrr

Insidently, who's goin got the nethouse tomorrow night for a beating.


Jedi.

http://www.angelfire.com/ut/jediquake3


[This message has been edited by Jedi (edited 18-11-99).]

Jedi

Sorry lads I see some else mentioned the how to play demos. I 'm just repeating myself. Oh well

earthworm_jim

jargha, I haven't tried it yet, but I'm guessing that it should be in a subfolder demos within the baseq3 folder.

Sam - I haven't played Q3 since the night b4 last (just 1 long night of it behind me so far..). I'll give it another go tonight. All i remember is that nm major was raping me on test2 (at least twice in a row). Tom reckons he's beating the nm bots real easy too soo maybe I was sad that night. I'll watch your demo tonight..

Koopa

q3tourney is even easier, the bots cant shaft for ****e (well they are better with shotgun than shaft, almost)