Clarification of rights...

DeV

In the US a man was charged with distribution of pornography.

He was located in California, as was the server. The images were legal under Calif. law however an FBI agent went to the deep south (think it was Tennesse (?)) and viewed his website.

They hauled the guy to the south and tried and convicted him in the State court.

Not only that but since his crime was intra-state it set precedent for Federal law (which can ONLY come into play when the crime or criminal crosses state lines).

These (and a few others like them) were brought to my attention while head of Electronic Frontier Ireland (the irish division of EFF).

Tom.

Hobbes

Hardly Trojan.

If he had copied the files from one country to another without it coming to his machine then he might of got away with it. But the second it hit his local machine he was breaking the law. Something like that happening would be very rare if non existant (otherwise I'd be rich selling pictures of furniture to these muppets who could never look at the contents )

Someone

Sorry to have to post this as annom, but if you read on, youll see why.


I'll give you all something to think about. This is the honest
thruth with no word of lie. I has been slightly changed to protect some
innocence and for legalities.. (the short version)


About 5-6 years ago, I was a heavy irc user on effnet running a few
channels and egg drop bots. I found myself downloading trading/sharing
warez, hack stuff, etc. I eventually got deeper into this, and
myself and another lad, Dr_Sm0ke, from Texas, started a hackers/warez group
called TheBoyz (yeah cheap! I know!) and setup #warez on effnet. The
channel had thousands of people who visited daily and we were the
main ops. It was all fun and games!

There was about 30 of us ops, all hanging out and pretty much having a
great laugh. We got into all sorts of stuff from hacking to newkin,
channel takeovers, you name it. I got to know everyone pretty well,
from their personal lifes to their professions, etc. I was great crack!

I never actually met anyone but I had intended to go on my honeymoon
to the california and meet up with a few of them over that period. (erm ok!)

Ok, wheres the punch line? In our tight little community of ops we
had one guy, ComWizard, from Texas who was trading and viewing child
p0rnography unknown to ourselves. He also was the best buddy of
Dr_Sm0ke (the other founding member of our group). I was soo shocked
as I thought I knew everyone closely in our group.

A lady visiting ComWizard's shop one day accidentily saw him viewing the
material on his pc and reported him to the local cops, who in turn
contacted the FBI. (I found all this info out at a later stage).
None of us were aware of this event that nearly changed everyones lifes
forever.

Almost the next day accross the states phones were ringing in FBI offices
and an investigation took place on our group. Their main task was to stop
and apprehend a 'international child p0rn ring' which operated over the
internet! OMG, like we were warez heads not sick twisted phukers!

Over the next week, 3 main members of the group had visits from the FBI.
ComWizard was arrested immediatedly and questioned. ALL his PC's and his
computer was confiscated for evidence and his buisness was closed as all his
employees were out of a job. (he diserved everything he got imho)
Although he swore an affidavid that he was the only person in 'TheBoyz' who
was into this sh1te, the FBI investigated our group. Although he tried to
implicate at a later stage that we were all involved in his sick games!

Dr_Sm0kes and Gracie1's (from California) PCs, etc was conviscated and all
irc logs, hard drives, floppy disks, etc. were looked into.

The FBI were not interested in our hackin/warezing activities, etc. They were
only interested in busting any pr0n going on!. They had to explain to the
Feds what our group was about, irc lingo and general irc stuff that people
say and do. Hundreds of hours was spent checking into our backgrounds, who
we were, where we worked, what we did.

I talked on the phone to Gracie and Dr_Sm0ke and was informed that the FBI
wanted to talk to me as one of the founders of the group. OMG! WTF! I
was very scared didnt know exactly what to do. Almost immediately, I stopped
going to IRC and using the internet. I still talked to gracie1 on the phone
and I found out that the she had several meetings with the FBI. She was
informed that ComWizard was a convicted rapest and has been done several times
for misdemeanors.

ComWizard got sent down for 15 years in a maximum security prison. He sent me
a chrismass card to my house once and a couple of air mails. They went into
the fire and I never replied to them.

Gracie1 went into the witness protection program and turned states evidence
against ComWizard. Aparently, she knew more about ComWiz's goings on
then anyone else did and the fact she had a daughter made her very
p1ssed off with ComWiz and his deceipt/sickness.

I never heard more from Dr_Sm0ke. He changed his nick and like myself,
went under for a while. Not that we were guilty of that sh1te, but it was
only irc and Im sure, like myself, had no intentions of going to jail
for ircing! I think I saw his nick on the ETG irc once, but he was gone
quicker than i could do a whowas on him.

I never did take my honeymoon to California, as I was worried that I would get
off the plane, with my new wife only to find the FBI standing on the runway
waiting to investigate me!


About a year ago, I recieved a call on my mobile from a FBI agent who wanted
to talk to me about ComWizard. I spent about 20 mins talking to him. Thinking
it was someone I told the story to it, taking the pish, I asked for his number
and rang him back on a land line, and sure to be, it was a federal building with
a big 'no ****e! its the feds!!' on the other end of the line.

I spent several hours explaining things, where he explained to me that they
had already investigated me (they had?) and were happy that I was not
envolved in the p0rn crap. He gave me assurances that no further investigation
would take place or would I be prosecuted in any state for my warez activities.

He told me a little about other related cases which they had/were persuing and that
he would not need to contact me for any further information as they already
had a witness for prosecution.


The whole thing was like a ****in movie. Anyhows, the only reason why I posted
all this is that I never really told any of you on irc bout it and I felt that
you all should know that the federal law has a long arm, very long arm.
It scared me to know the extent that they would go to find out all they needed
to know about it.

It made me think long and hard bout what i send and recieved/dloaded on the net.

Had I actually done anything wrong or anything enough for them to persue me!
I assure you, I wouldnt be here right now telling you this, Id be some big
black mothers's little plaything writing this on toilet paper in a maximun
security prision. ... NICE!


Anyhows.. there ya goes.

ChRoMe

Thats a bit crap why did his employess have to suffer for him being a perv?

ChRoMe

bubbles

Very very interesting story, a very good read and scary they way if some1 is into that crap it can pull many other ppl down with you. Thanx for sharing...


Blade - deals off

bubbles

Pressed the damn button twice

[This message has been edited by bubbles (edited 09-12-1999).]

DeV

In a similar incident, one of the first cases we had to decide to fight or not with the EFI...

A young lad nicked his girlfriends account password in DCU many moons ago.

Sends an email to president@whitehouse.gov (thats the real email address btw)... saying
"how does it feel to know you'll die on the same day as your wife"

A few days later several Gardai "assisted" the FBI in taking his girlfriend our of an exam they were both sitting. (nice timing)
Smart lad puts 2 and 2 together and leaves to bail her out (she has NO idea whats going on)

They grilled him for a the best part of the day and then, convinced he was just a tosser, let him return to a VERY ****ed off college (not to mention his girlfriend).

In a typical knee-jerk reaction, DCU cut Email from all undergraduates (there not being a WWW at that time).
We fought the case of undergraduate disconnection but there was bugger all we could do but appeal to their commonsense. Eventually they returned email to 3rd and 4th years only.

If you ever catch me at a bar ask me the story of why I'm in the FBI database as a civil-rights agitator (of all things )
its an inspector-gadgetesque howl

DeV.
ps: being the head of Amnesty International in TCD didnt help my record either

TwoShedsJackson

Do you have a link to any FBI file on this agitation we can have a look at DeV?

Well the fact that it is a Federal offence to threaten the life of the President in the USA was prolly why that one was taken a little more seriously than usual.

So let that be a lesson to you all next time you're considering sending death threats on the net

WhiteWashMan

hahahaha
i remember that
as far i remember he got tossed out of college. luckily i had use of a post grad account at the time or i would have been vwery bored with out the use of vax and the joy of foothills talker.
by mr simon marsh if i remember correctly.
often known as burble online.
a program he wrote for 3rd year in manchester university

i wonder what ever happened to him


ho hum.

Someone

Chrome : the reason why the all lost their jobs is that ComWizard was using his buiness as part of his 'trading' of pr0n. Sounds fvcked up, but that's what happened.

Hobbes

Yea, thats the same reason those 30 people got fired from the Times recently. They were spamming each other pron (not kiddie but fuked up all the same). I saw the AVI they sent (thankfully not in work) and I have to say it was the sickest thing ever (I didn't even watch all of it, I was starting to get sick).

For the record, you cannot be fired for receiving questionable mail, only for sending it on.

damo

THE WORD IS PORN. THE WORD IS NOT PR0N.

[This message has been edited by damo (edited 10-12-1999).]

madyoke

no pr0n

Cheez

YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF FU<KING SLAVES!!!
(and yes that includes me and excludes famous and rich *******s)

DeV

Article 1
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Quite.

DeV.

Hobbes

but I don't want him as my brother.

WORDBeeech

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. "

Anyone care what an article says ?? THE ARTICLE is wrong. We are all not born EQUAL. Some people are superior to others. FACT. If everyone was born equal that would mean that ye lot deserve as much respect as your superiors(like ME) but thats just BULLSHEEET , which is what this topic is anyway.

Rules are created by mankind for mankind but who gives a shyte. Whos to say that the are correct, cos they aint ! POWER TO THE SUPERIOR and may the SUPERIOR make the INFERIOR lives hell on earth .
WORD

[This message has been edited by WORDBeeech (edited 10-12-1999).]

Shinji

Much as I agree with the charter in spirit, one does have to wonder about human beings being endowed with reason and conscience....

There are a lot of choice specimens out there that sure as hell don't fit that bill.

DeV

"equal in dignity and rights"

not equal, just equal in dignity and respect.

Of course, you are clearly superior to the rest of us... pffff yeah right.

DeV.

damo

ere, if some braindead knacker who goes around towun giving out baytins to the posh lads thinks hes in ANY WAY equal to me HE IS OBVIOUSLY SO WRONG.........jesus like.........hes above any of us!

see sense people

Cheez

don't just call me pessimist
try and read between the lines

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice so strong and loud and I
Swallowed his facade cuz I'm so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me.

Slosh

Cheez = Pat Ingoldsby ??

Paladin

Goddamn this is the longest un quake related topic ever posted here!!
3 cheers for Dev for taking the new record!
lets add to this post everyday for the next 3 years!!