Gamecube down and out ?

tman

Originally posted by DiscoStu
unfortunatly joe public dosent like being challenged or scared. he likes safe and easily digestable entertainment not something to mull over or think about after its finished.

off topic, but i finally finished soul reaver 2 on saturday:eek:
still thinking it over now...

shame that the gamecube is missing out on lok: defiance:(

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Gangsta

The girl in Gamestop sed that Nintendo just dont bother with the irish market after a while as they think that Ireland is insignificant. I think it's true as sales are higher than ps2 at the mo and nearly as high as the gameboy advance

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Deadwing

Seems like every month or two someone brings out the knives for ninty and the cube. People bang on about how Playstation are in lads mags, on tv, bus station, toilet paper in bars (okay so i made that up), and that microsoft have limitless funds to push the Gackbox. People also forget that Nintly have been a business since the 1800's..yes, thats right..the EIGHTEEN hundreds, making card games. See ninty dont just make games, they make crazes, like pokemon..worth BILLIONS of dollars..they have enough to keep themselves afloat for years to come, no matter how successful or otherwise the GC is. And as long as we keep getting gems like Metroid, Mario sunshine and Zelda..i could care less what anyone thinks of them, or what version of Smackdown:here comes the sequel that youre playing on ps2 or something. (and yes, i do own a ps2, and a gackbox, not just some raving fanboy here)

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Deadwing

If im not mistaken, i seem to remember Microsoft losing something like 200 million last year, and also making a loss? And also that they lose something like $200 for every xbox sold, cause theyre selling them so cheap?

Every company makes a loss at some stage, its inevitable. What it isnt, is a death knell.

Matt Simis

That depends on :


A) How much cash reserves they have
What they are now doing and planning to do different so they dont repeat their failure.
C) How it impacts stock price. Nintendo are a publicly traded company since 1962, thats the date you should be counting their "success" (and for the most part it has been successful) from. If shareholders think they have no future, stock price plummets, company either becomes target for hostile takeover or file for bankruptcy and struggles on loans (from people with vested interests) for years to come.

So, yes, posting losses is a big deal for Nintendo or any company that isnt a behemoth like MS and Sony.



Matt

Deadwing

Originally posted by Matt Simis
So, yes, posting losses is a big deal for Nintendo or any company that isnt a behemoth like MS and Sony.



Matt

So Sony and MS are behemoths, but Nintendo, whove been in the games industry longer than sony and Ms combined, arent?

Bannor

This post is a bit disjointed - trying to address most of the points in the thread so please bear with me.

The X-BOX has only been kept on by Microsoft because of the success of Live! And if you watch the advertisning that's what Microsoft are selling because the games don't stand on their own.

Nintendo don't see Europe as a big priority and their marketing and release schedule reflects that. A friend of mine reviews console titles for a publication - he receives merchandise and copies of games for review for both the Sony and Microsoft consoles months in advance of their retail release. A couple of months ago he was asked to review some Nintendo titles for Christmas so he contacted Nintendo. They politely told him to f*ck off - if he wanted to review the Nintendo titles he would have to purchase them.

I have a PC, a PS2, a Cube and a GBA SP. These days Championship Manager is the only game I play on the PC. PES3 is the game played on the PS2 and almost everything else is on the Cube. The SP is only used on flights/train journeys.

Some of the Cube titles wipe the floor with what's available on the other consoles.
Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Resident Evil, Star Wars : Roque Squadron series, Super Monkey Ball. Those games are reason enough to purchase a Gamecube. If there are comparable exclusive titles on the other consoles I haven't seen them.

The PS exclusive titles are a dying breed : Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Pro Evolution/Winning Eleven, Medal of Honour have all been ported to other platforms. Tekken and Gran Turismo are the last remaining ones as far as I can recall.

There are few game genres where the Cube is found wanting (the most obvious one is a serious driving game) and there are some where it stands head and shoulders above the PS2 and X-BOX.

An underestimated factor in the sales of consoles is the fact that you can quite easily pirate titles for the X-BOX and PS2. The software pirates are only now making in roads into breaking the Cube.

Anyone who thinks that the Cube is going to die soon is kidding themselves - it out sold the PS2 in the North American market for the first time in the week of November 24th-30th (Thanksgiving week) which is more significant than the Christmas run up.

Retr0gamer

I have to agree with matt simis about Nintendo losing its originality. The only orignal games on the GC have been Pikmin, Metroid Prime (giving the fps genre a well deserved kick up the arse) and Animal Crosing. The rest of the games have been updates of existing formulas (albeit mostly very good ones) Look at how may ground breaking games on the SNES and N64. Theres a big difference.

TheSonOfBattles

Yea, and Nintendo haven't exactly bustin their brains when it comes to originality on the game boy advance either. Pretty much every game they've released for it is just an update of an old game with the word advance stuck on the end or something.

Matt Simis

Originally posted by Deadwing
So Sony and MS are behemoths, but Nintendo, whove been in the games industry longer than sony and Ms combined, arent?

I was referring to their financial worth and durability. Sony's stock for instance is USD33 Billion, MS are USD235 Billion. Nintendo arent exactly "mom and pop", but they also arent in the same league as their competitors.


Matt

Tusky

Originally posted by Retr0gamer
I have to agree with matt simis about Nintendo losing its originality. The only orignal games on the GC have been Pikmin, Metroid Prime (giving the fps genre a well deserved kick up the arse) and Animal Crosing. The rest of the games have been updates of existing formulas (albeit mostly very good ones) Look at how may ground breaking games on the SNES and N64. Theres a big difference.

what about Super monkey ball and viewtiful joe ? eternal darkness had some really original elements in the insanity metre , if you mean developed by nintendo then you cant really count mp

Retr0gamer

I meant developed by nintendo. Metroid Prime had a decent bit of input from Nintendo although Retro Studios did do most of the work.

monument

Originally posted by Bannor
The X-BOX has only been kept on by Microsoft because of the success of Live! .

Untrue, the Xbox is still alive because Microsoft want, and very much so can keep it alive. The success Live is only an helping factor.

Originally posted by Bannor
Nintendo don't see Europe as a big priority and their marketing and release schedule reflects that. A friend of mine reviews console titles for a publication - he receives merchandise and copies of games for review for both the Sony and Microsoft consoles months in advance of their retail release. A couple of months ago he was asked to review some Nintendo titles for Christmas so he contacted Nintendo. They politely told him to f*ck off - if he wanted to review the Nintendo titles he would have to purchase them.

I don't blame Nintendo Europe for this, but it would be nice if they could at least answer my emails about press releases - that reminds me - must ask them about such (- woops).

Originally posted by Bannor
The PS exclusive titles are a dying breed : Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Pro Evolution/Winning Eleven, Medal of Honour have all been ported to other platforms. Tekken and Gran Turismo are the last remaining ones as far as I can recall.

SCE’s latest titles - Ghost Hunter*, Ratchet & Clank 2, Jak II, EyeToy Play & EyeToy Groove.

(*god help Sony for some of the marketing for Ghost Hunter)

Originally posted by Bannor
Anyone who thinks that the Cube is going to die soon is kidding themselves - it out sold the PS2 in the North American market for the first time in the week of November 24th-30th (Thanksgiving week) which is more significant than the Christmas run up.

Totally useless - unless they also sell more games to the above people.

Deadwing

Originally posted by monument

SCE’s latest titles - Ghost Hunter*, Ratchet & Clank 2, Jak II, EyeToy Play & EyeToy Groove.

Not exactly "Must have" titles, to be fair.

Lets face it, this is a topic that cant be resolved, basically because everyones got their own opinion, whether youre one of the masses of gamers that thinks "Yeah playstayshun two is rapa, coz its got dat deeeadly game where ya get to rob cars n all, bleedin rapa!!", or if youre the kind of gamer that appreciates Nintendos "quality over quantity" approach. Personally i think the only reason the xbox is still around is because it had Halo, and i dont think its got much of a dedicated fanbase the way Sony and Ninty do.

Each machine has its good and bad points

Ps2: getting old, hardware is beginning to creak, but strong back catalouge.

Cube:Less games than the other consoles, but a wealth of triple A games.

Xbox:Lack of quality games, but hey..ms can throw money at it till it succeeds!

At the moment the knives are out for Nintendo, because its not doing as well as its competitors, so people are always quick to dismiss it as a lost cause in such a case. Whether its recent upsurge in sales is enough to keep it afloat remains to be seen, but with games like resident evil 4, Metroid prime 2 and another Zelda on the way next year i dont think Cube owners are going to be slitting their wrists just yet.

monument

Originally posted by Deadwing
Not exactly "Must have" titles, to be fair.

Which ones have you played? Any way, I was talking about exclusive titles.

Originally posted by Deadwing
Lets face it, this is a topic that cant be resolved, basically because everyones got their own opinion, whether youre one of the masses of gamers that thinks "Yeah playstayshun two is rapa, coz its got dat deeeadly game where ya get to rob cars n all, bleedin rapa!!"

Personally, I'm the kind of gamer who tries not to give a hoot what console a game is on.

BlitzKrieg

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
Yea, and Nintendo haven't exactly bustin their brains when it comes to originality on the game boy advance either. Pretty much every game they've released for it is just an update of an old game with the word advance stuck on the end or something.

but that what alot of the games on N64 were old games done up and 64 on their end (though the games were great the 64 tag did piss me off)

Nintendo havnt been the most original company around in a looooooong time.

Mr E

I guarantee that their next gen Gameboy (whenever it comes out) will be rehashing N64 games *....

- Dave.

* Not necessarily a bad thing.

Bannor

Originally posted by monument
Untrue, the Xbox is still alive because Microsoft want, and very much so can keep it alive. The success Live is only an helping factor.

My information is very much true - it comes from people in the Kids & Games division of Microsoft who work on the product. Earlier this year the future development of the X-BOX project was very much in doubt because console sales were not translating into games sales.

Microsoft were convinced that the copy protection system developed wfor the console was going to prevent any piracy. When the system was cracked and the pirated games appeared on the internet, sales of the X-BOX went up but sales of game titles did not increase in proportion. Why? Because people were buying the console, getting it chipped and playing pirated games.

Before Live, the X-BOX project was a black hole in terms of sucking money without a return and the rampant piracy was only adding to the burden. Live has changed that because Microsoft can prevent pirated games/modded consoles from playing online. It is the reason that the company has decided to push Live as the selling point of the console and is their only opportunity to recoup the money invested in the project. Also they now have a product with which the other consoles cannot yet compete.

Bannor

Originally posted by monument
Totally useless - unless they also sell more games to the above people.

The GameCube has not yet been properly cracked by the pirates so unless the 500,000+ consoles that were sold in the week Nov 24th-30th are being used as paper weights then their purchase will see an increase in games sales.

monument

Originally posted by Bannor
My information is very much true - it comes from people in the Kids & Games division of Microsoft who work on the product. Earlier this year the future development of the X-BOX project was very much in doubt because console sales were not translating into games sales.

So them, because of low BB take up, they must be pulling Xbox out of Ireland?

Ask Mr. Gates, he'll tell you, what you are talking about was good for the Xbox; however there was no way that MS were going to axe the project.

By the way you’re talking, I’m guessing you don’t know much about how MS, as a company, thinks and operates.

Originally posted by Bannor
Microsoft were convinced that the copy protection system developed wfor the console was going to prevent any piracy. When the system was cracked and the pirated games appeared on the internet, sales of the X-BOX went up but sales of game titles did not increase in proportion. Why? Because people were buying the console, getting it chipped and playing pirated games.

Before Live, the X-BOX project was a black hole in terms of sucking money without a return and the rampant piracy was only adding to the burden. Live has changed that because Microsoft can prevent pirated games/modded consoles from playing online. It is the reason that the company has decided to push Live as the selling point of the console and is their only opportunity to recoup the money invested in the project. Also they now have a product with which the other consoles cannot yet compete.

You presumed I didn’t know all off this, why?

Again, just to make it simple – Live was good for Xbox, but it would have went on with out its success.

There is two simple ways of using pirated games and Live, as long as you buy any games you want to use on Live – (A) avoiding Live detect the mod chip by having one which has an on/off switch, (B) with the price of consoles such as the Xbox, people could buy a second console one for Live, the other for pirated single player games, doing such you could easily recoup the cost of the second console with the cheaper/free pirated single player games.

One could also say if the console was as successful as the PS2 – having a more main stream user base - piracy would not be such a huge problem.

Originally posted by Bannor
The GameCube has not yet been properly cracked by the pirates so unless the 500,000+ consoles that were sold in the week Nov 24th-30th are being used as paper weights then their purchase will see an increase in games sales.

High low-price console sales - more so with bundles - do not automatically led to game sales. This is not to say none of the new owners will buy more game.

Or maybe you’re trying to tell me games sell in high numbers with out any backing? I’ll pass your message on to SCEI, MS, EA Ubisoft etc…

TheSonOfBattles

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
Yea, and Nintendo haven't exactly bustin their brains when it comes to originality on the game boy advance either. Pretty much every game they've released for it is just an update of an old game with the word advance stuck on the end or something.

Let me rephase so my point is clear. On the N64 most of Nintendo's games were updates, but at least they changed a fair anmount. On the gameboy advance loads of Nintendo's games are the EXACT same as another NES or SNES game except with the word advance stuck on the end or the title changed. The idea of bringin these games isn't a bad thing, What is a bad thing, is bringin them to a new audience, and not makin any changes or improvments whatsoever, as they could have done.

Bannor

Originally posted by monument
So them, because of low BB take up, they must be pulling Xbox out of Ireland?

Ask Mr. Gates, he'll tell you, what you are talking about was good for the Xbox; however there was no way that MS were going to axe the project.

By the way you’re talking, I’m guessing you don’t know much about how MS, as a company, thinks and operates.

I never said they were pulling out of Ireland! Read what I posted again : future development of the X-BOX project i.e. X-BOX2 etc.

Having worked in Microsoft for several years and experienced the life cycle of a variety of projects I have quite a good idea about how things work within the company.

Bannor

Originally posted by monument
You presumed I didn’t know all off this, why?

Again, just to make it simple – Live was good for Xbox, but it would have went on with out its success.

There is two simple ways of using pirated games and Live, as long as you buy any games you want to use on Live – (A) avoiding Live detect the mod chip by having one which has an on/off switch, (B) with the price of consoles such as the Xbox, people could buy a second console one for Live, the other for pirated single player games, doing such you could easily recoup the cost of the second console with the cheaper/free pirated single player games.

One could also say if the console was as successful as the PS2 – having a more main stream user base - piracy would not be such a huge problem.

I didn't presume anything - just giving some background info.

The fact remains that a person has to buy a game in order to play it on Live - that's why it's a money spinner for Microsoft and thus secured the future of the project.

Bannor

Originally posted by monument
High low-price console sales - more so with bundles - do not automatically led to game sales. This is not to say none of the new owners will buy more game.

Or maybe you’re trying to tell me games sell in high numbers with out any backing? I’ll pass your message on to SCEI, MS, EA Ubisoft etc…

There you go again trying to twist what has previously been said.

Maybe I was making the point that the sale of over 500,000 consoles in one week was significant. Maybe selling over 500,000 consoles in one week is a result of spending $50M marketing the product in North America for the final quarter of the year. Since the price cut Nintendo sales in North America have been quite steady - they expect to ship more product (this includes games) in the months of November and December than they did for the first ten months of the year combined.

What exactly is the relevance of the last line of your post? At no point have I suggested that Nintendo don't market their products in North America.

monument

Originally posted by Bannor
I never said they were pulling out of Ireland!

I never said you did.

Originally posted by Bannor
There you go again trying to twist what has previously been said.

Maybe I was making the point that the sale of over 500,000 consoles in one week was significant. Maybe selling over 500,000 consoles in one week is a result of spending $50M marketing the product in North America for the final quarter of the year. Since the price cut Nintendo sales in North America have been quite steady - they expect to ship more product (this includes games) in the months of November and December than they did for the first ten months of the year combined.

What exactly is the relevance of the last line of your post? At no point have I suggested that Nintendo don't market their products in North America.

YOU -
"Anyone who thinks that the Cube is going to die soon is kidding themselves - it out sold the PS2 in the North American market for the first time in the week of November 24th-30th (Thanksgiving week) which is more significant than the Christmas run up."

ME -
"Totally useless - unless they also sell more games to the above people."

YOU -
"The GameCube has not yet been properly cracked by the pirates so unless the 500,000+ consoles that were sold in the week Nov 24th-30th are being used as paper weights then their purchase will see an increase in games sales."

ME -
"High low-price console sales - more so with bundles - do not automatically led to game sales. This is not to say none of the new owners will buy more game.

Or maybe you’re trying to tell me games sell in high numbers with out any backing? I’ll pass your message on to SCEI, MS, EA Ubisoft etc… "

YOU -
"What exactly is the relevance of the last line of your post? At no point have I suggested that Nintendo don't market their products in North America."

And again, I did not twist your words. And I did not say you suggested that Nintendo don't market their products in North America

Anything more?

Bannor

Originally posted by monument
I never said you did.

ME-
"The X-BOX has only been kept on by Microsoft because of the success of Live!"

YOU -
"Untrue, the Xbox is still alive because Microsoft want, and very much so can keep it alive. The success Live is only an helping factor."

ME -
"My information is very much true - it comes from people in the Kids & Games division of Microsoft who work on the product. Earlier this year the future development of the X-BOX project was very much in doubt because console sales were not translating into games sales."

YOU -
"So them, because of low BB take up, they must be pulling Xbox out of Ireland?

Ask Mr. Gates, he'll tell you, what you are talking about was good for the Xbox; however there was no way that MS were going to axe the project.

By the way you’re talking, I’m guessing you don’t know much about how MS, as a company, thinks and operates."

ME -
"Microsoft were convinced that the copy protection system developed wfor the console was going to prevent any piracy. When the system was cracked and the pirated games appeared on the internet, sales of the X-BOX went up but sales of game titles did not increase in proportion. Why? Because people were buying the console, getting it chipped and playing pirated games.

Before Live, the X-BOX project was a black hole in terms of sucking money without a return and the rampant piracy was only adding to the burden. Live has changed that because Microsoft can prevent pirated games/modded consoles from playing online. It is the reason that the company has decided to push Live as the selling point of the console and is their only opportunity to recoup the money invested in the project. Also they now have a product with which the other consoles cannot yet compete."

YOU -
"You presumed I didn’t know all off this, why?

Again, just to make it simple – Live was good for Xbox, but it would have went on with out its success.

There is two simple ways of using pirated games and Live, as long as you buy any games you want to use on Live – (A) avoiding Live detect the mod chip by having one which has an on/off switch, (B) with the price of consoles such as the Xbox, people could buy a second console one for Live, the other for pirated single player games, doing such you could easily recoup the cost of the second console with the cheaper/free pirated single player games.

One could also say if the console was as successful as the PS2 – having a more main stream user base - piracy would not be such a huge problem. "

ME -
"I never said they were pulling out of Ireland! Read what I posted again : future development of the X-BOX project i.e. X-BOX2 etc.

Having worked in Microsoft for several years and experienced the life cycle of a variety of projects I have quite a good idea about how things work within the company."

YOU -
"I never said you did.

And again, I did not twist your words."

Where did the highlighted comment come from then? :rolleyes:

Bannor

Originally posted by monument
Or maybe you’re trying to tell me games sell in high numbers with out any backing? I’ll pass your message on to SCEI, MS, EA Ubisoft etc… [/B]

What's this about?