Ah to be British

gurramok

Originally posted by Sand
Were as guilty of "claiming" people. Personally, I get a bit embarrassed at the lengths people will go to to claim someone as Irish or Irish-ish. Whilst our football team has benefitted from such loose interpretations its a bit of a stretch to start buttering up say Kennedy as somehow connected to Ireland when his first (only?) visit to the country afaik was a diplomatic visit.

And you cant blame the British for being mistaken in the belief were British - look at what soaps we watch, what papers we read, what music we listen to ( trad aint half as popular as it used to be unless its fields of Athenry etc etc ), what football teams we support. Were no less British than the Scots.

Your getting mixed up between cuture and ethinicity.
We like british culture as you explained, but we also like traits of american culture - those holywood movies, mcdonalds etc, it dont make us american as the americans themselves.
If we drink Heineken in the pub, that dont mean we are dutch as the dutch themselves but like that aspect of their culture.
English soccer teams are followed the world over with fanaticalism, that dont mean a diehard fan in Malaysia is british

On the point of Kennedy, he had ethnic Irish background. It dont mean he's(was) entitled to an Irish passport but one of those irish -americans who are proud of their irish heritage(culture) even though they might not have ever visited the country before

Originally posted by sceptre
He's had an irish passport since 1993.

Which makes him as Irish as Monica Seles is American

He has an irish parent which entitles him to an irish passport.
Monica Seles emigrated from Serbia to USA for financial/war reasons so she could have a better life without having any relatives in USA to vouch for.

I myself was born in England of ethnic Irish parents with Irish accents and we moved back to ireland when i was 3.
I'm no 'nationality whore' as someone indicated earlier, in fact if you heard my accent, its as irish as yours might be

love it when dem up north claim to be British ...

"Oi - you live in a country called The United Kingdom of Great Britan and Northern Ireland - go take geography lessors ..."

If you would call a loyalist an irish person as some people would do in the south, you would not get very far and would have to do a runner

mike65

Originally posted by gurramok

I myself was born in England of ethnic Irish parents with Irish accents and we moved back to ireland when i was 3.
I'm no 'nationality whore' as someone indicated earlier, in fact if you heard my accent, its as irish as yours might be

That was me! As you were only 3 I can't accuse you of having made a conscious decision on the matter...

Mike.

Venom

Originally posted by Highnoon
Father Ted is British? mmm well that must only be by virtue of being funded by British money? A rather important virtue granted but I didn't see any English actors in the show. The vast majoirty of the talent was Irish or wasn't it. I do remember RTE rejecting the show (more fool them) and being picked up by Channel 4. I hardly think this is enough to call the show British (though I do accept the fact that without this hand up it may never have seen the light).

Father Ted was a British TV show as it was made by a British TV company. Father Ted stared Irish actors.

Tigerland was an American war starring an Irish actor.

Gangs of New York was an American movie staring an Irish actor.

I dont see folks giving out over how the last two examples are discribed.

Victor

Seeing as most IRA members live in the UK, should the organisation be renamed the UKRA or should that acronym only be used when in Britain?

BarryFry

I don't know if I can stop choking on the clouds of self-righteousness that are emanating from this thread.

The truth is that Irish people are totally happy to be "British" when it suits them.

I've lost count at the number of Irish people in my home town of Peterborough who have moaned about the Pakistanis who have moved here.

When I point out to these Irish people that they are immigrants too, I always get the same reply: "Well, yeah. But not like them!".

To which, I resist several obvious temptations, and keep my reply considerate.

I even had one Irish guy tell me how all the "Asians" were "taking us over".

US!!!!!!

That one had me chuckling for a whole week......

Redleslie

Originally posted by Venom
Father Ted was a British TV show as it was made by a British TV company. Father Ted stared Irish actors.

Tigerland was an American war starring an Irish actor.

Gangs of New York was an American movie staring an Irish actor.

I dont see folks giving out over how the last two examples are discribed.

Uh, Father Ted was created and written by 2 Irish guys. It was set in Ireland and the theme tune was written by an Irishman. Only 1 actor was not Irish (Clare Grogan) and I think I read an interview with Arthur Mathews where he said most, if not all, of the production crew were Irish, but I can't be bothered chucking on a video to check that because like, who cares? Some might claim that it's the most unBritish sitcom ever, but nah it must be British, 100%, since a British company commissioned it. Similarly, Roddy Doyle's books are not Irish because they're published by Penguin. :rolleyes:

Highnoon

Phew lads just finished catching up on the posts. Venom I was about to reply to your post but Redleslie got in there first and answered rather nicely. Yes I do admit that we (well really I should only speak for myself) are sometimes guilty of hypocritical standards now that we are receiving all these people from all over. It'll be interesting to see what happens in years to come when we have (we already have but more numerous) other skin colours with Irish accents.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Paddyo

I remember a story told by a friend of mine who was visiting the States on business. He was out for a few drinks with some Americans when they said something about him being from Britain or England. He pointed out to them that he was from Ireland. They said that it was really all the same thing - until he started calling them Canadian!!!

Some one else. earlier in the thread, said that we need better PR for Ireland. I think this poster might be correct. The same person as above was again on business in the states- talking at a function to a well educated American girl. She asked where he was from and he said Ireland - she asked how he travelled to the states - by road or by plane - him being a quick thinker told her that he had travelled by the Trans-Atlantic highway - which she believed.

Paddyo

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by Paddyo
she asked how he travelled to the states - by road or by plane - him being a quick thinker told her that he had travelled by the Trans-Atlantic highway - which she believed.

In college one of they guys was in the states working for the summer - and when he mentioned the Trans-Alantic Freeway they just believed it !

If you think that's bad - about the worst insult you can give to a Canadian is to ask what part of the states they are from, repeateadly , especially when USA foreign policy or guns etc. are mentioned...

sovtek

Originally posted by Paddyo
The same person as above was again on business in the states- talking at a function to a well educated American girl. She asked where he was from and he said Ireland - she asked how he travelled to the states - by road or by plane - him being a quick thinker told her that he had travelled by the Trans-Atlantic highway - which she believed.

Paddyo

Is that like your friend who had some American begging to buy his leprechan that he kept at home?

sovtek

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
If you think that's bad - about the worst insult you can give to a Canadian is to ask what part of the states they are from, repeateadly , especially when USA foreign policy or guns etc. are mentioned...

I noticed alot of Canadians traveling make sure to wear the maple leaf on some part of their person.
Identity crisis?

Venom

Originally posted by sovtek
I noticed alot of Canadians traveling make sure to wear the maple leaf on some part of their person.
Identity crisis?

Just the same as Irish people making sure that locals know were not English.

Venom

Originally posted by Redleslie
Uh, Father Ted was created and written by 2 Irish guys. It was set in Ireland and the theme tune was written by an Irishman. Only 1 actor was not Irish (Clare Grogan) and I think I read an interview with Arthur Mathews where he said most, if not all, of the production crew were Irish, but I can't be bothered chucking on a video to check that because like, who cares? Some might claim that it's the most unBritish sitcom ever, but nah it must be British, 100%, since a British company commissioned it. Similarly, Roddy Doyle's books are not Irish because they're published by Penguin. :rolleyes:

Well I guess thats makes Microsoft and Coca Cola the most succesful Irish companies EVAR seeing as how there Irish plants are well in Ireland and the majority of the work force is Irish.

Yay! Go us.

Sundy

well following on with your theory venom, There are two irish clubs left in champions league! Manchester Utd and Celtic cause they are part owned by irishmen so they must be irish clubs!!!!

And Father ted is an Irish comedy just as braveheart was a scotish film despite some of it being filmed in Ireland.

Venom

Originally posted by Sundy
well following on with your theory venom, There are two irish clubs left in champions league! Manchester Utd and Celtic cause they are part owned by irishmen so they must be irish clubs!!!!

And Father ted is an Irish comedy just as braveheart was a scotish film despite some of it being filmed in Ireland.

Try re-reading why I wrote.

You mixing up content with ownership.

Tazzle

Who wrote Father Ted?

I think you'll find it was 2 Irish men, 1 from Meath and 1 from Dublin. Therefore it's hard to argue that Father Ted isn't at heart an Irish comedy. Can't we just leave it there..

rcunning03

I think the brits know we are not British but think that we are part of the uk, it is complicated where one part of the country is in the uk but the other part is a republic, if your not from Ireland your not going to be too bothered learning the distinction, we get it from as soon as we start school

its not just the average brit that thinks we are in the uk if you look at the opening sequences of a lot of british news they show britain and ireland together as one country.

Also we are the british isles so it is confusing if you not irish or interested in ireland. I think the best way to explain ireland to a brit is tell them that ireland is just like an alternative britain, at first glance they both look the same but the differences are suttle but many

sovtek

Originally posted by rcunning03
its not just the average brit that thinks we are in the uk if you look at the opening sequences of a lot of british news they show britain and ireland together as one country.

If I were a martian watching BBC Northern Ireland weather, I wouldn't even know the Republic exists or failing that think it some no mans land where weather cannot exist.

bonkey

Originally posted by rcunning03
it is complicated where one part of the country is in the uk but the other part is a republic,

What...you mean they can't tell the difference between (say) France and the European Mainland as well????



jc

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by rcunning03
I think the brits know we are not British but think that we are part of the uk, it is complicated where one part of the country is in the uk but the other part is a republic,

Surely you mean part of the ISLAND ?

rcunning03

What...you mean they can't tell the difference between (say) France and the European Mainland as well????

france is one country, if western france was part of germany but if there also was a republic of france i think a lot of people would get confused, espeically if the republic claimed ownership over western france, and if germans generally considered the republic of france to be part of germany just like western france, not a lot of foerign people would spend the time getting to know the difference.

Also france is a big country so people that would watch the news could tell the difference, but ireland is only a small country so unless as a foreigner you had an interest in ireland you would'nt care. Just think of the amount of peole that think china and japan are the same place and people.

If I were a martian watching BBC Northern Ireland weather, I wouldn't even know the Republic exists or failing that think it some no mans land where weather cannot exist.

if you were to watch only the british channels you would not have a clue about the republic and they do not get our newspapers over there, the information about the republic doesnt exist for them as it does for us

some no mans land where weather cannot exist.

God, if only that was true

rcunning03

Surely you mean part of the ISLAND ?

If you talk to alot of brits (regardless of class etc) unless they have irish relatives they will think we are part of the uk, because it used to be the united kingdom of Great Britain (England, Scotland, Wales) and Ireland i.e. the uk was the unification of the four countries, now it is the united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland, but they still see us a one country in the uk.

It's not them being offensive or arrogant i just think they never fully accepted our breaking of the union, they dont get our media like we do theirs, so with the lack of information on the republic you can understand where they get confused.

I was ordering a box office football match (on the automated service) awhile ago and it said the price was £9.50 but its only £7 in the uk so i rang up to ask about the difference, the girl couldnt understand why i would be charged more, so she asked her supervisor and she came back and told me it was 9.50 euro pounds. I said you mean 9.50euro, then she said because your in the republic (the hesitant way she said the republic, you just know they tried explaining the difference between north and south ireland in her customer service training) its 9 pounds 50 euro, she then said i know there is a difference even though its the same money.

she was trying to helpful so i just let it go, there's no point being ignorant towards them, they honestly dont know the difference

Blackjack

there's no point being ignorant towards them, they honestly dont know the difference

You're spot on there. Although there are many reasons why one could dislike them for it, their daftness in not being able to grasp to what is blatantly obvious to most others can be a source of some amusement.

sovtek

Originally posted by rcunning03
If you talk to alot of brits (regardless of class etc) unless they have irish relatives they will think we are part of the uk, because it used to be the united kingdom of Great Britain (England, Scotland, Wales) and Ireland i.e. the uk was the unification of the four countries, now it is the united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland, but they still see us a one country in the uk.

It's not them being offensive or arrogant i just think they never fully accepted our breaking of the union, they dont get our media like we do theirs, so with the lack of information on the republic you can understand where they get confused.

I was ordering a box office football match (on the automated service) awhile ago and it said the price was £9.50 but its only £7 in the uk so i rang up to ask about the difference, the girl couldnt understand why i would be charged more, so she asked her supervisor and she came back and told me it was 9.50 euro pounds. I said you mean 9.50euro, then she said because your in the republic (the hesitant way she said the republic, you just know they tried explaining the difference between north and south ireland in her customer service training) its 9 pounds 50 euro, she then said i know there is a difference even though its the same money.

she was trying to helpful so i just let it go, there's no point being ignorant towards them, they honestly dont know the difference

UK Immigration officials don't seem to know that there is a difference either. I've been asked many times what I'm going to do once my work permit expires, something that Irish immigration doesn't ask.
One guy in front of me at passport control at Heathrow made the mistake of wearing a suit when returning to Ireland as he was holding an Irish student visa. After two hours (had a little misunderstanding with them in '99 so they hold me back) he was still there when they finally let me go through.

gurramok

Also we are the british isles so it is confusing if you not irish or interested in ireland

Yeh riiiight, if t makes you happy

Makes you wonder where the Irish isles are

Another label to add to the confusion

If you talk to alot of brits (regardless of class etc) unless they have irish relatives they will think we are part of the uk, because it used to be the united kingdom of Great Britain (England, Scotland, Wales) and Ireland

Breakaway happened over 80 years ago, generations growing up must be mis-educated on the geography/history facts.

BTW, is Irish history taught in English/British schools much, like a mention in textbooks ?

Victor

Originally posted by sovtek
UK Immigration officials don't seem to know that there is a difference either.

They know the difference in Dover. "Oh, he's Irish, he must be a terrorist". Idiots.

I hate the weather maps that include Ireland and Britain, but make Northern France disappear.

johnKarma

I'm an Irish student in Paris. Since I obviously speak English and have an anglophone accent when speaking French, I thought I would be confused for a Brit or an American. Right I was. But these days the French don't even bother distinguishing between those: they're "les anglo saxons". This imprecise and vaguely pejorative term seems to include all English-speaking peoples of the world: The Brits, the Americans, the Australians, the Irish and presumably the Jamaicans. Recent research has shown that even the English themselves are barely anglo-saxon (that being just one of many obscure tribes to migrate to Britain) but after the whole Iraq thing "les gaullois" needed something to counter "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" so they resurrected this little canard. The American conservatives get particularly riled up over it, and I have to say that having had it applied to me a few times, I can see their point. It just goes to show that people feel the need to put everything they don't understand into an identifiable little box, even if its patently absurd to do so.

rcunning03

correct me if im wrong but did the french (normans) not basically create britain

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by Victor
I hate the weather maps that include Ireland and Britain, but make Northern France disappear.

I hate the ones that show the British Isles, but only have weather in GB & NI and none down here !

And then there is the whole British Racing Green thing - Gordon Bennet !