Modified cars - sad or not?

Abraxas

Insurance, eth0_, plain and simple.

I often see cars that have had their performance enhanced, but also carry illegal number plates. This is an indication that the driver intends to break the law in their driving as well, and they therefore are not mature enough to hold a driving licence.

Illegal number plates warrants disqualification from the roads? Surely you're joking.
Aren't you? :ninja:

I have a slight issue with the environmental effect of these cars - high performance cars pollute the atmosphere more than normal cars, and modified cars do not benefit from a well-funded R&D lab to improve their efficiency. On that note, I'd like to see off-road vehicles removed from the roads. Perhaps a punitive tax should be imposed on any off-roader that travels more than 2,000 miles p.a. on public roads, with exemptions for those who hold a certificate that they use their vehicle for towing a horse box or something similar.

Have you ever considered a career in politics? These ideas that would pile more pressure on already struggling motorists, never mind being so impractical to implement indicates that you have.

the car I learned and passed my test in was very ordinary, and so will any I buy in future.

And so will every other car in the country if you have your way.

Seriously, if people want to drive a permanent Christmas tree and are foolish enough to pay up to four times what the car's worth for the privilege, then off with them; it's their money and sod all to do with anyone else unless they're posing a danger. Personally, I'd be more worried about the sales rep who feels invincible ripping around the country daily in a 2.0 Avensis.

michaelanthony

The only ones that look good are ones which come with factory fitted body kit, for example the BMW 5 series with the M bodykit and M Alloys.

empirix

Those smoked lights look ****e....the clear ones do look well though.

And yes i would rather spend my money on drink, up your ass!

darklite

I don’t have a modified car, but I do like the look of properly modified cars.

Essentially in Ireland the only modifications you can do are appearance, and minor performance tweaks, due to insurance. While insurance is a factor in other countries, it is no where near as prohibitive as Ireland.

Some of the modded cars I see in Ireland do look crap, but they are individual and so long as they are safe, hats off to the owners.

I know far more boy racers who drive mommies unmodified car, so I don’t agree with the stereotype.

A car is a matter of personal taste, some people thing modded cars look crap, I think a lot of standard cars look crap:

Fiesta - BLAND BLAND BLAND
Fiat Multipa - YUK
PT Cruiser - What on earth?
New Megane - Mutated Ford Ka

That’s only my opinion though, and other than mild mick taking, I wouldn’t begrudge any owners of these vehicles, as seems to be the case for Irish Modders.

eth0_

Originally posted by Abraxas
Illegal number plates warrants disqualification from the roads? Surely you're joking.

Naw you can get hit with a massive fine for having non conforming licence plates on your car. The Guards are 'cracking down' on it.

Now, can someone show me a CLASSY looking modified car and then maybe i'll change my preconceptions of y'all being knackers because that's been my experience of car modifiers (superficial modifiers, at least) thus far.

Andrew Duffy

Yes, I do think illegal number plates warrant disqualification, and confiscation of the vehicle. A badly driven car is a dangerous weapon, and removing safety restrictions, such as an identification plate, is rightly illegal. Would you remove the seatbelts to reduce weight? Another comparison would be, if a gun owner removes the magazine size or automatic fire restrictions from their weapon, should they be allowed to own it?

Environmental issues are very important. I take it you don't want to see 15% of road-going vehicles being tractors? Well, 4x4s are agricultural vehicles and thus can (and do) break environmental and safety regulations. Have you ever seen what happens to a pedestrian hit by a 4x4? The NCT emissions test should weed out some modified cars, but it is not a good thing that so many of the cars on our roads have had their fuel effieciency reduced so dramatically through modifications, while at the same time we are exceeding our Kyoto protocol emmissions levels by over 100%.

As for posing a danger, a lot of these modifications do. Extra lights are very distracting to other motorists. Spoilers detrimentally affect the handling of a car unless they are developed in a wind tunnel. Wider tires encourage an immature driver to corner faster, increasing the damage caused when the car goes out of control. Engine and exhaust modifications reduce the car's reliability, and again encourage reckless driving. A badly installed modified brake or suspension system could fail catasrophically at high speed.

Car manufacturers spend enormous amounts of money developing cars that are efficient, safe and reliable. Modifications defeat this effort, and since the overwhelming majority of car modifiers are also young, aggressive boys or girls, the driving style of modified car drivers is on average made more dangerous by the increased capability or decreased safety of the vehicles.

Politics? Not really - I'd hate to have to compromise my principles. If I did have any policy making powers I would probably make it very expensive to tax and insure modified cars for use above a small number of miles per year, rather like classic cars at the moment. Modified cars aren't the cars that were granted certificates for use on our roads, and if people want to create their own vehicles for use on a track, they are welcome to.

padraigmyers

Originally posted by eth0_
show me a CLASSY looking modified car

Again, this is the whole piont, what you may think of as classy, others may find ugly. Its just a matter of taste, do you really feel a need to have to police public taste or something.

Just to get a handle on what you think is acceptable, would you consider the exterior styling of BMW M3's and M5's to be ugly or garish?

darklite

How about these:



or



or

ando

Originally posted by eth0_
Now, can someone show me a CLASSY looking modified car

well, not sure if this is to everyones taste, but I love the Focus! and this one is quite nice I think:





I think thats great looking, and is the look I'm after

darklite

Yup, the blacked out focus is sexy.

Gerry

Originally posted by Andrew Duffy

I have a slight issue with the environmental effect of these cars - high performance cars pollute the atmosphere more than normal cars, and modified cars do not benefit from a well-funded R&D lab to improve their efficiency. On that note, I'd like to see off-road vehicles removed from the roads. Perhaps a punitive tax should be imposed on any off-roader that travels more than 2,000 miles p.a. on public roads, with exemptions for those who hold a certificate that they use their vehicle for towing a horse box or something similar.

Which brings me to the saddest of all modified cars - the modified 4x4s and vans. Need I say more?

The offroader issue is really a separate one, and deserves its own thread really. I'd agree fully with you Andrew. People buy 4x4's mainly to feel important. They pollute far more, use far more fuel, handle worse, and go slower. I don't see the point, unless you pull trailers/horseboxes, or go off road.
People doing school runs in 4x4's makes me sick. There should be a punitive tax, to escape this you would have to produce evidence of why you need a 4x4.

Also, people running businesses, unless they are builders, generally do not need them. A van is more cost effective, and provides more room.

mike65

This is the look I'm going for....;)



Mike.

ondafly

all this thread is about, is people slagging off modified cars. For gods sake grow up ! Lets all drive White 4 door generic saloons, use the same colour toilet paper. All wear white overalls, and live in the same sized home as eachother. In fact, lets do away with any sort of individuality, and all have the same name !

but of course - this is coming from somebody who lives in Castleknock and drives a modified car - so I'm just one big howya scumbag knacker :rolleyes:

kopijack

It seems that the only modified cars that the people against modified cars notice is the ones with tacky graphics and neon lights on the side of the car that you can visibly see with exhausts that just putt putt along............

take a deeper look, it's a whole new world

have a go in a performance car for once and maybe it will give you a different view.

jamesd

Do we not live in a country where we all the the right to do what we want?

I am 25 now and I have had 8 cars and 6 of which were modified and from the modified car scene I have met allot of new friends so I do not think it is fair to class most car modifiers as stupid knackers (quote from eth0_ ).

Until now I have driven smaller engined cars because of Insurance reasons but now I can afford to more up in engine size and drive a TD Opel Vectra car for weekdays and for weekends I have a fully restored MK2 16V GOLF GTI which is modified but you could not tell this by looking at it as it's the suspension and brakes that are modified in it so this makes the car allot safer as the brakes as standard in the Gold 's were bad.(Quote: Andrew Duffy-Car manufacturers spend enormous amounts of money developing cars that are efficient, safe) So improvements can be made to all area of a car.

I do not and have never driven faster then most people in my previous modified cars and allot of people I know with modified cars drive as normal and any of us here so saying that a driver of a modified car is more aggressive/unsafe is wrong.(Quote: Andrew Duffy-aggressive boys or girls, the driving style of modified car drivers is on average made more dangerous by the increased capability or decreased safety of the vehicles.).

(Quote: Andrew Duffy-illegal number plates warrant disqualification, and confiscation of the vehicle. A badly driven car is a dangerous weapon, and removing safety restrictions, such as an identification plate, is rightly illegal)- A badly driven car either modified or not is a dangerous weapon Andrew, I never car a modified car driven with it's identification plate while I agree that an unreadable plate should not be allowed.

(Quote: Andrew Duffy-Engine and exhaust modifications reduce the car's reliability, and again encourage reckless driving.) This is a stupid statement Andrew as certain engine modifications can increase the life of an engine/components- (like a dump valve can increase the life of a turbo in a car)

(Quote from eth0_ There's nothing individual about modifying your car. It looks stupid and knackerish) - Should you not you read your posts before posting as this statement is totally untrue,people modify their cars to be more individual.

Abraxas

Much as I hate to pick apart a post, especially one as long as yours Andrew, I disagree with a lot of your comments.

Yes, I do think illegal number plates warrant disqualification, and confiscation of the vehicle. A badly driven car is a dangerous weapon, and removing safety restrictions, such as an identification plate, is rightly illegal.

Firstly, I don't like the way you automatically associate modified cars with dangerous driving. There are far more dangerous threats out there, they're just not as visible. Secondly, a number plate is not a safety restriction. Thirdly, no-one's talking about removing plates, surely we're talking about the far lesser (and sometimes unnoticeable) crime of using non standard fonts? It's easy to know that you don't depend on your own transport for work to make such sweeping comments.

The NCT emissions test should weed out some modified cars, but it is not a good thing that so many of the cars on our roads have had their fuel effieciency reduced so dramatically through modifications

Yes, the NCT should do away with all cars who fail the emissions test. Why you think modified cars in particular fail is beyond me. Why would someone make a change to their car that will reduce its efficiency? Can anyone name a modification that will do this to the extent that it will fail the NCT?

Spoilers detrimentally affect the handling of a car unless they are developed in a wind tunnel. Wider tires encourage an immature driver to corner faster, increasing the damage caused when the car goes out of control. Engine and exhaust modifications reduce the car's reliability

Realistically, there is virtually no impact on the car's behaviour by fitting a spoiler. Wider tyres increase a car's footprint on the road - this can't be a bad thing. Engine and exhaust modifications do not necessarily reduce reliablilty.

I would probably make it very expensive to tax and insure modified cars for use above a small number of miles per year

Someone's beaten you to that. "Hmmm, how do we get around this problem? Let's tax the bejayzus out of it." I love Ireland. Surely you can see how I was mistaken for thinking you had an interest in politics.

Modified cars aren't the cars that were granted certificates for use on our roads, and if people want to create their own vehicles for use on a track, they are welcome to.

Well, if they pass the NCT then they are the cars that are granted certificates for use on our roads. I'd trust certain manufacturer's products (brakes, suspension etc) over the average OEM parts any day. They're not quite the Legomobiles you make them out to be.

Kopijack hits it on the head: open your mind and look beyond the stereotype of baseball caps, tracksuits and neon washerjets and there's a friendly, growing community. I don't drive a modified car, but if and when I do it will be in the fashion of Jamesd's Golf GTI - better brakes, suspension and mechanical improvements. Personally I'm not into bodykits, neons etc, but fair play to those that are if that's what makes them happy.

RicardoSmith

Focus is very nice but IMO the others are Hot Wheels Racers. Just as people are entitled to like 'em I'm entitled to dislike them.

You think the brakes in a 16V Golf Mrk2 are bad!!! (used to have an early '85 8v myself) You should try some of the heaps that I've driven that pass the NCT but I would say the brakes are horrendeous.

kopijack

Oh by the way all those that think modifying is a bad idea, got some bad news...........

It's getting bigger

:cool:

Gerry

I'd agree that most spoilers do not worsen the cars handling, unless of course they are angled the wrong way
But they will add a slight drag on the car.
Wider tyres, fine. But if you lower the profile too much, you will make the ride crap. If you widen the wheels too much, you end up moving the centre of gravity for each hub/axle outwards, past specifications, adding to the strain the axle is under.

People are taking a lot of offence. I have no problem with people who make tasteful styling mods. Sure, this is somewhat subjective, but there are a lot of mods out there that no-one except the owner finds stylish. I have zero problem either with those who make performance improvements. I do have a problem with stupid looking mods, and mods which try to create the impression of better performance.
I wouldn't say that drivers of modded cars are any worse than anyone else though. Most of the time, their cars are too slow to be terribly dangerous anyway.

Sure, most of the time there is no impact on reliabilty. But it rarely gets considered at the time of the modification. Attention grabbing is number one.

kayos

Right I'll jump in here and add my two cent worth..

Modifications when done right with fully TUV (or equivalent) approved equipment and the work carried out by a professsional are fine.

I have modded two cars in my life the first one was a 1Litre MK3 Ibiza and my current car is another MK3 Ibiza except this time its a Cupra 1.8 20VT. ON the Cupra I have done mods such as brakes, suspension, chip, exhaust, diverter valve, induction kit, TIP, alloys, a bit of a sound install and a few other bits and bobs. Ok so I didnt do any body work but thats for the simple fact the car looks good with its standard kit. Also every mod I have made (bar the sound system) has been approved by either VAG/SEAT or TUV so its totally legal.

To deal with Andrew Duffys remarks about modifications reducing the life of and engine.
Andew answer me this....
How come with my engine conversion (chip/exhaust/TIP/DV) I get a longer warrenty for the engine than SEAT give and at the same time the conversion does not effect my SEAT warrenty? In terms of R&D into these types of conversion Oettinger have been working with VAG for years and they are approved by them. Oettinger put time and money into developing these kits. If you actually look into it you will see alot of the modifications you slate are actually approved by the manufactures. Its just a case of doing the job right. Which I admit is not always done. The suspension is the same I have a longer warrenty with my aftermarket setup than with the OE setup...

I would hope I dont get classed as a knacker due to wanting to improve the preformance/safety/handling of my car. Before anyone ask's why do I need to improve these things when there is speed limits I use my car for trackdays and sometimes 1/4 miles.

In terms of preformance mods its all a case of doing the job right and doing it safely. Once its done right I dont see why people should care.
For styling mods its "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and you are never going to keep everyone happy. This to me is beauty

while to others its not.

kayos

DaithiSurfer

Quick question.
2 days ago my neighbour was involved in a crash.
Speaking to the guards at the scene he was told that he is in deep ****.
He was told to expect to hear from the guards after they had examined his car.

The problem was that he is into modding his car. I'm sure the spoilers, exhaust etc are no problem but the guard said that his tinted windows, and any mods that he did to the handling of the car (lowering suspension, non standard wheels and the like) have to be examined.
Also he called his insurance company today and they want a police report etc.
According to the guards the report will include details of his mods.

So he called back the insurance company and told them h is car was modded and then told that he may not be insured at all because he didnt tell them about this when he insured the car.

Insurance is based on standard non-moded models. Any mods make them non-standard and therefore will be loaded. He didnt notify them, was not loaded and therefore has not insured his particular modded car.

As you can imagine he is bricking it as the 2 cars were writeoffs and there may be criminal charges too because someone was injured.

Anyway thats as far as its gone so far, so if anyone knows anything about this(and i mean KNOWS and not just pulling **** out of their arse to post) please post here and i'll pass it on.
Thanks.

Seth Brundle

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
Insurance is based on standard non-moded models. Any mods make them non-standard and therefore will be loaded. He didnt notify them, was not loaded and therefore has not insured his particular modded car.

In my experience, a standard question when looking for insurance is if the car has been modded "in any way". If you lie to them then you get what you deserve.

Gerry

Originally posted by kayos
To deal with Andrew Duffys remarks about modifications reducing the life of and engine.
Andew answer me this....
How come with my engine conversion (chip/exhaust/TIP/DV) I get a longer warrenty for the engine than SEAT give and at the same time the conversion does not effect my SEAT warrenty? In terms of R&D into these types of conversion Oettinger have been working with VAG for years and they are approved by them. Oettinger put time and money into developing these kits. If you actually look into it you will see alot of the modifications you slate are actually approved by the manufactures. Its just a case of doing the job right. Which I admit is not always done. The suspension is the same I have a longer warrenty with my aftermarket setup than with the OE setup...

kayos

You are getting the wrong end of the stick here. The problem lies with people doing unapproved mods. Big difference between throwing on whatever exhaust sounds loudest, attacking your airbox with a screwdriver, or cutting off a few coils from your springs versus going to an approved specialist who will do the right job with the right parts.
Fair play regarding your Seat, it looks stylish.

DaithiSurfer

kbannon i agree with you completely.
I never lied to an insurance company simply because i was terrified of this same thing happening if i ever needed a claim.

I mean 'You might only pay 1000 instead of 1200 but if you are not covered you have in effect given someone 1000 for absolutely nothing.

I checked with a guard friend of mine earlier and he said (while admitting that he was nothing to do with insurance) that regardless of whether your mods were done proffesionaly or not you still have to inform your insurer. If you dont you are effectively driving around in an un-insured car. The same goes for giving an address in the country

So i guess he will get what he deserves after all.
Still feel sorry for him though, but not as sorry as the injured person who may not get any compansation at all.

gs39t

I'm sorry, but a micra, ibiza, fiesta whatever ....is still a shopping cart on wheels whatever you do to it. IMO, many of these modded cars just look crap. Very rarely do i see one and think "thats not bad" but most of the time its some w*nker trying to impress his 14 year old girlfriend with a coffee can exhaust, stupid graphics and a body kit thats worth more than the car its on.......

DaveD

Originally posted by Eye


well the tinting... depends, certain types are just about legal, but most of the cars round my town that i see definetly are'nt, if memory serves me right it must allow at least 70% (don't quote me on that) of light through, if it blocks more than 30% it's illegal....i think
just thought you might like to know that while you mod your car and it may well look fine, it's still illegal from a safety point of few.

Firstly to clarify the above point made by Eye - My mates brother is a Garda. Before i got my windows tinted i asked him to check out the legality of it. He checked it out and told me there is no law whatsoever in this country regarding tinted windows other than you cannot tint the windscreen... so basically, you can get as dark a tint as you want !!

Secondly, Why are people so against people spending their hard earned money on modifying their car ? As Kopijack said, modifying is growing and every week now there are more and more shops selling modifying products. Also more and more people are starting to get into the modifying community so why can't you accept that and let us get on with what we enjoy doing ?


Andrew Duffy - Yes, I do think illegal number plates warrant disqualification, and confiscation of the vehicle. ........ WTF ????

@ DaithiSurfer - As regards the insurance issue, if you do not declare all modifications to your car your policy can (and will) be void and the claim can be turned down. The driver will then have to cover all costs of any claims.

steeo

Originally posted by DaveD
My mates brother is a Garda. Before i got my windows tinted i asked him to check out the legality of it. He checked it out and told me there is no law whatsoever in this country regarding tinted windows other than you cannot tint the windscreen

He is right about not been able to tint your windscreen but because there is no law as such in this country regarding tints the garda use a law in england as a guide-line which states that the max tint allowed on the front side windows is 27% and the NCT also use this percentage aswell

kopijack

I'm sorry, but a micra, ibiza, fiesta whatever ....is still a shopping cart on wheels whatever you do to it. IMO, many of these modded cars just look crap.

Exactly my point, some of you are only noticing the cars that stick out like a shop window at the local motorstore!

To be honest Genuine Modifiers and Car Enthusiasts frown upon tacky modded cars with bad exhausts, graphics and other add-on bits, the reason why is simple.....Because it gives people a bad view of the scene, which is basically the view that some of you have.


It's a hobby, I don't like collecting stamps or coins but Im not gonna knock someone that does....

Andrew Duffy

The number plates are obviously a sticking point, and modified car drivers hate being called boy racers. Here's a few questions for you:

1. Why do you want to make your car go faster?
2. Why do you want to make it more difficult to identify?*

I doubt I am alone in seeing a correlation between 1 and 2 above.

* Illegally

Doctor J

Sad, just my opinion. It's something I just don't see the appeal of (though I could talk about guitars for hours).


I particularily enjoy the small car mods (Micra, Corsa etc etc) where the guy has installed what appears to be an air-brake on the back (too big and non-aerodynamically efficient to be a spoiler) which will only serve to slow the car down, given the teeeny engine in it? Don't see the point of that at all.