qw cheaters

Koopa

about the proxies thing,
if you use the proxy to START the quakeworld client, the proxy can check the qwcl.exe file byte for byte, so you cant use hacked exe's without first hacking the proxy
which is harder than "hacking" quake3.exe or untournament.exe, because its packed .. you have to disassemble qizmo before you can hack it

Koopa

oh yes..

"because you now have a chance to do something that Q1 people have always wanted to do....... Remake Quake1 with better graphics."


dont you understand, we play quake1 because its competitive, not because of the graphics, we dont give a **** about graphics, an if you dont like competitiveness then you shouldnt be playing a multiplayer DEATHMATCH(!) anyway, you should be doing CO-OP play to kill those terrible looking monsters and ogres hiding behind doors and stuff

quozl

Someone was saying about this being a terrbiel game for newbies, well i think it just weeds out the ppl who really arent gonna love playing quakeworld anyway. Because of its speed/viciousness.
I'm only playing less than a year, and less than that online, and I've taken my axe rapeings from koopa And it was still fun, after a few weeks I could find someone worse than me. And after a few months most were. If the game hadnt been so much damn fun I dont know how I coulda taken all the beatings Its a game that wont appeal to most newbie gamers I'd guess, but that doesnt make it any less perfect for me
And I'm still glad id released the code. Because someday, someone who learnt from it will make a better game ID have done so much for games coders over the years
Quozl

Steven

Sorry Krash, but ure wrong, Half-Life was a Q2 engine game. No offence to Q1, but the graphics engine isn't exactly up to that standard. But, as it was so well put earlier, who gives a f**k, it is a fiercely competitive, extremely fast and unforgiving frag fest of a game, but I still prefer Q3, as do most gamers I'd imagine. Except the kind of ppl who prefer Dune 2 to Tiberian sun

Asuka

Firstly, Steven. Im not going overboard, im stating an opinion. You dont have to read it and you dont have to like it. I dont hate all qw players or anything. I just think the game is *old* (no disputing that)

Slosh, no need to get p!ssed off, i wasnt promoting q3 more than any other new game for a start, also note that you *dont have to read my posts*. Newbies who stick with QW, *in my opinion*, have useless puters that wont run new games, have no new games, or like being hopelessly trounced. Even if i liked the game i wouldnt stay with it long enough to develop the nessecary skills because it is inevitably going to die. *In my opinion* QWers dont want to move on because it means starting from the beginning again developing new skills.

I have no idea whether bunny is joking or not so im not going to reply My first response is *SARCASM* but then i thought, am i really being cynical enough?

HK is *BITTER*. He understands sarcasm well enough, but has no firm grip on the concept of 3d acceleration, high res graphics, lots of polygons and variation. The keys etc are not the problem with qw, its what happens when you press the keys, and what you get on the screen. Maybe this concept is new to you What i said about qw being competitive which koopa agreed with, i note, is true *in my opinion*. Also, to add to what i had to say to slosh, the other reason ppl dont want to move on is that their puters arent good enough. I meant it had gone too far when u exchange graphics for gameplay, when its playable on your puter. Turning down the res is ok, but turning off textures for an extra 10 fps is OTT, *in my opinion*. And when the graphics stop being graphics and start being representative icons, then the game has turned into a competition. Futuristic weaponry? Its a *game*. Its *fiction*. And the railgun was the best new weapon in a quake game ever.
Playing a game? Watching a film? Bullsh!t.

Overord starts by saying he agrees with HK, and then goes on to contradict him And btw, you cant turn the res down or the textures off when playing football. Theres no packet loss or bad connections. The speed of your computer doesnt matter a toss.

Castor - Half-Life was a Q1 engine, SIN was a Q2 engine.

Madyoke, thats grand, but understand, and Slosh would stress this if it wasnt for the fact that you agree with him, that is *your opinion* (i knew there was something missing from every post so far ). Dont try to force qw on others, and dont complain just because its heyday is over.

Koopa in advertently agrees with me...
Im not going to argue the technical thing, because i know fu<k all about it

Quozl - i agree with you about id releasing the code. But do you not think that maybe if you had started playing q2 or tribes, or started later with q3 or ut, it might have given you the same kick? Plus you wouldnt have been raped all the time.

Thatll do for now

Dont reply all at once.

Asuka

Paladin

Totaly right about the engines.
Here's a quote from pcgamer archive review

"And here’s where Half-Life sets itself apart from nearly any other first-person game. Though it uses the Quake engine, there are so many enhancements, optimizations, and special goodies added that the resulting game is light years beyond anything id (or anybody else) has produced"

Steven

Here's a quote from the PCGamer actual review in a boxout section in the mag, not the archives which dont include the boxouts. "Despite it's cutting edge appearance, Half-life is actually based on a massively modified version of the Quake/Quake2 engine". While Valve licensed both engines, they mainly used the Q2 engine and very VERY rarely looked at the Q1 engine. That seems to make sense to me. You dont look to gameplay when you're making a graphics engine choice. I suppose you could say that, technically, the Q1 engine was used, but it was really a modified Q2 engine. So nyaaa

El_Presidente

I like cheese.

Asuka

Well if you take that view, then Quake 2 was only a modified Quake 1 engine

Paladin

LOL

Slosh

And when the graphics stop being graphics and start being representative icons, then the game has turned into a competition.

Asuka, do you play to win ?? Or just to appreciate pretty colours ??

Vincent

I like cake

Steven

Very funny u smart alec bastid . The difference between the q1 and q2 graphics engine code is really immense, sorta. hmm, now that i think about it . But no, I remember a .plan file which stated that the Q2 engine had been started from scratch, it just turned out sorta similar, so nyaaa again

Steven

I like Pepsi, oops that's a brand name

DEATH

wasnt this post about qw cheating and not a poxy gimicky game called half life?

Asuka

Slosh - its slightly difficult for me to play to win, because im possibly the worst player *ever*

But the pretty colours *are* pretty

Chaos

it twas d
but this is funny

---

www.gibworld.com/chaos
Ps 0wns U

Shinji

Koopa...

I know all the ways you could write a proxy cleverly to make sure a game binary isn't modified.

I also know that none of these measures will keep a clever, dedicated programmer from completely making a fool out of the proxy system quite easily.

Hypothetical question - how does the server know that the proxy it's talking to is a valid proxy...?

Mull that one over. And no, you don't need to back the binary of the proxy, it's MUCH easier than that...

tHE vAGGABOND

hehe shinji..

so you want to re-write QW with better grafics and take the **** parts out....er...like q3 you mean

Chaos

yah koopa, so there

---

www.gibworld.com/chaos
Ps 0wns U

Suds

tbh was gonna stay outa this one, but how about a comp to see how far the server can be fooled ?

Shinji vs Koopa round 1

Koopa must program a checksum to stop hackers
Shinji must program a hack which beats koopas unknown checksum...

Go for it lads..

This arguement has got to be better than QW anydays

Koopa

shinji it will be HARDER to simulate qizmo behaviour (because you dont have qizmo source code, and its packed) than it would be to simulate quake3.exe's behaviour .. that is all i was interested in, achieving the SAME level of hack-protection as they had before the source was released

maybe you should actually have a look at qizmo before you go around making assumptions to its behaviour
http://qizmo.sci.fi/

download it, hack it, and then come to me
(im not saying its unhackable, im just saying its a **** load harder to hack than qwcl.exe ever was, and even quake3.exe)

if you get beyond the point where qizmo says winapi sucks, congratulations, you just made it past the first step.

oh yes, so there chaos

Koopa

there is another bit, if someone types "f_server" on the server, your qizmo has to reply with a series of letters, its some sort of checksum.. breaking that would need you to have disassembled qizmo fully in the first place
example replies to f_server are:
d83f39cf -> 09f1db3b
where EVERYONE on that particular server should respond with the same output, so its fairly easy to see if someones using a hack (it was originally meant to be a form of proxy-aimbot detection)

a lot more effort than hacking any of the quake/2/3 exe's no?

"Mull that one over" - i think ive answered that question

[This message has been edited by Koopa (edited 04-01-2000).]

Skulka

Stumbled on this site: http://www.quakelives.cjb.net/

"The basic principle of this is to allow online gaming of QuakeWorld players to continue in a structured and still fun manner that's currently impossible with the freely distributed release of the quake source code."

Worth a look?

Shinji

Koopa m8, you wouldn't need to touch the Qizmo source code, or unpack it or anything. All you need to know is what responses it sends to the server... Or how to confuse its checksum, not a difficult thing at all. After all, how often does it check qwcl.exe for being ok? Once only at startup, I'll wager. So how difficult to write a program that replaces a chunk of the EXE halfway through? Not difficult at all, if you know what you're doing...

SheroN

I don't play QW....so its funny....the care can't been seen on my face...simply coz its not there...not there...i said