s,h,italy

detriment

I've been on erasmus in italy for four months, i was supposed to go for a year but i couldnt stand it any more. Nothing works here. i'm not weak but i'm near to a mental collapse. I'm in florence where there's too much traffic, the streets arent wide enough, all they eat is meat, cheese and tomatos, and of course pasta. The people are UGLY!!! They're rude, the trains are always late, the buses are always late, they're often on strike, all my lectures are late, all cinema shows start late, the impudent gits give out to you if you're five minutes late for anything, the university is totally disorganized and I had no help from anybody here, they all abrogated responsibility for my predicament. The bureaucracy here is Kafkaesque, you could easily spend days looking for the right office, going from one place to another, constantly misdirected by ignorant, and impatient, workers. You have to get some stupid kind of residency permit even if you're an EU citizen, you have to get a health booklet to work in a bar, there's too much renaissance art, nobody stops at pedestrian crossings, there's traffic jams at three am and they make just as much noise as if it were 3pm.......I could SERIOUSLY go on for ages more, i've got over a 100 things written down. Can anybody please tell me: what the **** is wrong with Italy and why hasn't it just collapsed in on itself by now?

Isobar

I'm sensing a little tension...:cool:

The Corinthian

I'm in florence where there's too much traffic, the streets arent wide enough,

You mean you’re not used to cities outside Ireland - possibly any city.

all they eat is meat, cheese and tomatos, and of course pasta.

Not enough spuds and cabbage there for you then?

The people are UGLY!!!

They probably think the same of you.

They're rude, the trains are always late, the buses are always late

Conversely you can set your watch to Dublin Bus and the drivers are all real gents... :rolleyes:

they're often on strike, all my lectures are late, all cinema shows start late, the impudent gits give out to you if you're five minutes late for anything,

You complain that everyone else is late and then take offence when you’re rebuked for being late yourself? That’s rich...

the university is totally disorganized and I had no help from anybody here, they all abrogated responsibility for my predicament.

Diddums. Thought about taking up responsibility for your own predicament?

The bureaucracy here is Kafkaesque, you could easily spend days looking for the right office, going from one place to another, constantly misdirected by ignorant, and impatient, workers.

Informing yourself correctly and being polite will work wonders. Speaking the language helps too.

You have to get some stupid kind of residency permit even if you're an EU citizen, you have to get a health booklet to work in a bar

Not unusual in many countries.

there's too much renaissance art,

That’s a new complaint.

nobody stops at pedestrian crossings,

And in Ireland we do? :rolleyes:

what the **** is wrong with Italy and why hasn't it just collapsed in on itself by now?

It’s a secret. Stranieri like you wouldn’t be able to understand it.

Now, best you go back home to mammy in Ballygospittlebackwards.

DUX

Poor kid.... life is so hard sometimes, isn't it?

Yeah I agree, better if you go back home to mammy....

Sleipnir

sounds just like dublin to me.

Gordon

*titter*

Very funny and very funny repostes.

Exit

Strangely I came across this link just prior to reading this thread.

I've never been to Italy so I don't know how true it is, but it's made by Italians so presumably they know better.

It's flash, and it takes a while to load.

http://www.infonegocio.com/xeron/bruno/italy.html

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by Exit
Strangely I came across this link just prior to reading this thread.

I've never been to Italy so I don't know how true it is, but it's made by Italians so presumably they know better.

It's flash, and it takes a while to load.

http://www.infonegocio.com/xeron/bruno/italy.html

To Download all 1,948K of it
www.infonegocio.com/xeron/bruno/italy.swf

ROFL (lots of them could apply to us too- done by an someone who I am reliably informed is a leftist cartoonist - hence the bits on politics)

drane2

Haha, you've just posted everything I like about Italy

bombidol

I was in Rome for a few days last week. and i have to admit, id lose the ****in plot if i was to stay there for more than a few days. all those points seem valid to me

Gordon

note to bombidol & detriment: You won't like Greece.

The Corinthian

Italy would come across as chaotic and dysfunctional to many non-Italians, but then again, if you weren’t brought up in that culture or society, of course it would appear so. The same can be said for an Italian (or Frenchman, German, etc) visiting Ireland.

Your typical viewpoint held by Italians of Ireland and the Irish can be synopsised as follows:

Infrastructure is atrocious - Roads are a joke, public transport is non-existent and overpriced and the less said about telecoms the better. The Irish are not big fans of personal hygiene. Or dressing well - the only time that the Irish dressed fashionably was during the period that grunge was in vogue (and only because they already dressed like that).

They eat too early in the day, and they eat badly. Food is only considered, at best, a chore to be executed as quickly as possible (anything deep fat fried, is considered edible), on the way to the pub - where the order of business is to spend all your disposable income on getting drunk and hopefully not soil yourself. Not that being sober would make much difference, as most Irish will walk on the street in a half dazed manner, waiting to be scammed anyway.

Politics are laughable, based upon a series of historical skirmishes that are affectionate known as a civil war, that took place for reasons that people are not too sure about any more (no doubt the reasons were in Gaelic, which would explain why no one knows them any more). Beyond that, nobody actually knows what’s the difference between the political parties, but undoubtedly it has something to do with farming.

Corruption is on a level that would make Neapolitans blush, not helped by the means with which it’s dealt with - tribunals (which look to deal with corruption, long enough until it’s no longer newsworthy). Beaurocracy is light - indeed, so light that setting up bogus accounts and identities for the purpose of money laundering and tax evasion, has a long-standing tradition.

Crime is a problem in Ireland as it is in any country. Of course, being a small country, Ireland can’t afford both organized crime and terrorism, so it makes do with one organisation to do both. Not that the police in Ireland are notable for their ability to deal with this crime, but this is probably due to the fact that they’re generally over worked; normally as bouncers to pubs and nightclubs, which is of course the real business of the police in Ireland. That and marrying nurses.

Outside on Dublin, and perhaps Cork or Limerick at a stretch, you’re in banjo territory. Small towns that only differ to each other in so far as they’re run by different sets of families (who would own one or two of the town’s major businesses). The balance of the economy of these towns is based upon sucking up to these families.

I too could go on for hours, but I’ve made my point. The original poster, who was to one degree or other trolling, was at best immature or provincial. And as you can see anyone else can be equally dismissive - Tutto il Mondo è Paese, as we say in Italy...

mneylon

Corinthian seems to have more than covered all the points

I've lived in Italy, and as some people know, am half-Italian anyway.
Yes it's chaotic, but when I compare living in Ireland to Milan or Veneto there is very little difference between the two.

If you go to a country like Italy on Erasmus you should feel privileged, as many of the Italian students would love to be in your position, but aren't.
If you OPEN your mind you can have a wonderful time.

Ugly people? That's a new one on me. The average Italian female is usually a lot more palatable to the eye than many of her other European counterparts.
Maybe you need glasses??

michaelanthony

I've been to Milan and from what I've seen, it couldn't be more differnet from what's being said here about Italy. The people are far from ugly, everybody is obsessed with the way they dress, everything seems to work properly compared to Ireland and everybody was very polite.

simu

Detriment, your rant is hilarious. No offence but you really need to chill out, relax, it's only an Erasmus year. Have fun, make friends and try to improve your Italian a bit.

detriment

I am now going to reply to the Corinthian point by point because his hostility is most potent and he was the most extensive in his criticism of me:
Firstly i would say that some people presume that i've never been to another country outside of ireland, in fact i've been to several and italy is by far the worst
Secondly, I more than agree that ireland is one of the worst countries for this sort of thing, but then again ireland is poorer and smaller: with similar wealth and size Italy are ridiculous compared to England and France.
Thirdly, samu's comment can be replied to by saying that I actually intended to do that and the reason I'm here complaining is that I wasn't able to enjoy my erasmus year and had to cut it short, its that bad.
1. the streets are wider in Ennis than in Florence, and the traffic is packed in so as to be louder than London.
2. In this country as well as Britain, France, Spain and Timbuktu, you can generally walk into a supermarket and get a range of foods from around the world: chinese, indian, french, german, italian, spanish, mexican.....its much worse in italian supermarkets and restaurants. Even in an irish cafe you'll get a wider selection of ingredients than in an italian one
3. I accept the ugly comment is somewhat subjective, but well thats how i felt, especially the men, i'm just trying to disabuse people of the notion that the italians are better looking than everyone else, a notion which the italians themselves possess
4.Dublin is almost as bad, but believe me, Italy is worse with trains and buses. The people are all much ruder than Irish people, or English, French or Americans for that matter.
5. I was constantly arriving slightly early or on time for everything and was forced to wait for up to an hour for most things, I was late very little, like most non-italians generally are, its the other way around with italians. Besides, the time i was given out to for being late, i'd been in italy long enough to presume that lateness would brings me there on time.
6. one does not simply walk into a university and know how everything operates, there must be people to ask questions of and in an organized university there should be literature available explaining the different system to students. It was by a certain amount of luck that i didnt miss a month of lectures. It's easy to tell me to relax but in a situation where i cant affort to miss lectures or ill fail the year, this level of neglect is unacceptable.
7. Informing oneself is impossible when the only way to do so is to ask people who dont want to answer you or just giveyou wrong information. im generally polite to everybody, italians are not polite in return. I alwasy communicated in italian
8. Neither of these requirements make ANY sense whatsoever, and in italy there's generally half as many workers as necessary to deal with this bureaucracy so you have to get in queues for hours and days. It took me over a week to get the health thing and lost an opportunity to get a job because of it.
9. Florence was the home of futurism which is neglected in favour of the renaissance art, everything is neglected in favour of it. In any case renaissance art in such large quantities is vulgar and impossible to appreciate.....
10. I dont know about where you're from, but generally people stop at pedestrian crossings a good part of the time for me, one in every three cars at the least, you could be standing at one in florence till the cows come home, crossing the road is dangerous, you have old women gettting cursed at when they try to run across.

MrNuked

Don't believe the streets are wider in Ennis. You can jump across the street in Ennis.

The Corinthian

1. the streets are wider in Ennis than in Florence, and the traffic is packed in so as to be louder than London.

The streets in Ennis are not actually wider than those in Florence; it’s just that Florence has a good few old streets that would be narrower than a younger, smaller town like Ennis. Certainly, the streets in the more modern suburban areas would most likely be as wide if not wider than anything in Ennis. Even in the centre of Florence, if memory serves, the principle streets dwarf anything you’d find in Ennis. So yours is a pretty ridiculous assertion.

2. In this country as well as Britain, France, Spain and Timbuktu, you can generally walk into a supermarket and get a range of foods from around the world: chinese, indian, french, german, italian, spanish, mexican.....its much worse in italian supermarkets and restaurants. Even in an irish cafe you'll get a wider selection of ingredients than in an italian one

One of the reasons than non-Italian cuisine is not found, is because it’s not particularly popular there. Hardly surprising if you consider that it would have to compete with the homegrown cuisine, which is probably the single most popular Worldwide.

By contrast with Italy, up until quite recently foreign food of any description was difficult if not impossible to get in Ireland. Nonetheless, it’s not like the homegrown cuisine here should have been much competition.

3. I accept the ugly comment is somewhat subjective, but well thats how i felt, especially the men, i'm just trying to disabuse people of the notion that the italians are better looking than everyone else, a notion which the italians themselves possess

Actually your comment was not somewhat subjective. It was completely subjective.

4.Dublin is almost as bad, but believe me, Italy is worse with trains and buses. The people are all much ruder than Irish people, or English, French or Americans for that matter.

I’m failure with public transport in Dublin, Rome and Florence and Dublin is far worse. And far more expensive. By a long shot. As for people being rude to you, I’m not terribly surprised given the cheery little attitude you carried about with you in Italy.

5. I was constantly arriving slightly early or on time for everything and was forced to wait for up to an hour for most things, I was late very little, like most non-italians generally are, its the other way around with italians. Besides, the time i was given out to for being late, i'd been in italy long enough to presume that lateness would brings me there on time.

I can’t argue with this as it’s based upon your experience, which I was not witness to and have not experienced myself. As such, it’s a subjective point really.

6. one does not simply walk into a university and know how everything operates, there must be people to ask questions of and in an organized university there should be literature available explaining the different system to students.

One does not simply walk into a university and expect to be spoon-fed. Or perhaps one did.

7. Informing oneself is impossible when the only way to do so is to ask people who dont want to answer you or just giveyou wrong information. im generally polite to everybody, italians are not polite in return. I alwasy communicated in Italian

I can only imagine that you came across in an arrogant and negative fashion when asking, or were just unlucky. Again, I can’t argue with this as it’s based upon your experience, which I was not witness to and have not experienced myself. Italians are no ruder than any other people in the World. Again frankly subjective.

8. Neither of these requirements make ANY sense whatsoever, and in italy there's generally half as many workers as necessary to deal with this bureaucracy so you have to get in queues for hours and days. It took me over a week to get the health thing and lost an opportunity to get a job because of it.

Most if not all continental European countries require that citizens have residency documentation and identification - a beaurocratic practice that is likely to be adopted in the UK and Ireland before long, I suspect. As for the health documentation, I can’t say if it really does anything useful, but realistically I can’t say if the quarantine of animals entering the British Isles does anything useful either. Or what the point to having to get a garda (or, up to recently, a parish priest) to endorse you when applying for your passport is.

9. Florence was the home of futurism which is neglected in favour of the renaissance art, everything is neglected in favour of it. In any case renaissance art in such large quantities is vulgar and impossible to appreciate.....

Florence was not the home of Futurism. Indeed, the Manefesto of Futurism was published in Milan and most of the best Futurist works will be found there or in Rome.

Florence, on the other hand, is better known and described as the birthplace of the renaissance, hence the odd preoccupation with renaissance art there.

Do your homework.

10. I dont know about where you're from, but generally people stop at pedestrian crossings a good part of the time for me, one in every three cars at the least, you could be standing at one in florence till the cows come home, crossing the road is dangerous, you have old women gettting cursed at when they try to run across.

I’m from an urban centre with a population of over one million. Dog-eat-dog and jaywalking become pretty common place once a city gets to a certain size - London is as bad as Rome for jaywalking, TBH.

liam24

detrement dont take any notice of corinthian, he's naturally biased because he's moderator of the italian forum, I can symphatise with you 100% because I too made the terrible decision of doing my erasmus year in Florence.I totally agree with all you said and all I would like to warn people who are thinking of doing erasmus in Italy that they should think twice because they will dearly regret it.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by liam24
detrement dont take any notice of corinthian, he's naturally biased because he's moderator of the italian forum

Of course I’m biased in favour of Italy in this argument. I’ll even admit I have numerous relatives in Florence. I’m hardly hiding any of that.

However, I’m not basing my opinions on a series of erroneous facts and unverifiable (and thus dubious) personal experiences. What few ‘facts’ were presented were easily countered with similar examples from other countries (or even Ireland) or were even just pain incorrect.

All I’ve done is simply refuted this subjective rant.

I can symphatise with you 100% because I too made the terrible decision of doing my erasmus year in Florence.I totally agree with all you said and all I would like to warn people who are thinking of doing erasmus in Italy that they should think twice because they will dearly regret it.

An individual with two posts to their name spontaneously showing support for another poster with a similar number of posts... Coincidences, coincidences... :rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by detriment

ireland is poorer and smaller:How about Sardinia ? half the size of Ireland, half the population and much better roads than here (and they have no motorways), and the bus passes in Caligari / Rome are so much cheaper than Dublin

1. the streets are wider in Ennis than in Florence, and the traffic is packed in so as to be louder than London.Put Dublin corporation in charge - they'll soon have it sorted (a lá Wood Quay )

2. supermarket / irish cafeThey have regional variations. Italians eat out, we don't. You can eat out in Italy for not too much more than eating in - in Ireland that is not an option for most people - even if you can find places that are consistant..

3.uglysubjective

4.ruderpeople in tourist traps tend not to have time for foreigners 'cos there are so many cf. London / Paris.

5. timekeepingMost Irish people treat 6 as 6"ish" ie. around 6:30 - I know one Irish guy who was only early / on time 4 times in 24 years !

6. UniWhats the name of the corresponding person in an Irish Uni ?

8.queues for hours and daysTell that to anyone waiting for a driving test

10. Italian DriversYeah they think they own the road.

bug

Im fairly surprised at the comments made in this thread. I didnt make it to Florence and hope to one day but I did visit Rome recently and loved it. The food is much cheaper and fantastic, the service is outstanding. The Romans appear at first glance to be standoffish but are happy to help with anything they can help you with. And their sense of humour is quite dry and funny.
The city itself is breathtaking. You may feel somewhat taken aback by the hustle and bustle of the city but within a day you get used to it. The traffic appears erratic, but after a day or two you realise that it works and pedestrians are respected. I dont get it...how could you not love it?

On another note Corinthian Im quite surprised at your comments on Irish culture and hopefully you used the differences just to make the point to the original poster that he should stay at home if he cannot get used to the differences. Im surprised at the sweeping statements. All Irish people do not eat badly, we are a relatively "new" state which only came to be in 1923 and have a long way to go. We do tend to wash believe it or not, and being of a practical nature do not believe as the romans and greeks did, that ones physical apperance reflects your mental state or intelligence. Perhaps this is why the irish dont dress particularly well but how shallow would one be to put that of any importance.Diodorus wrote about the celts and his perception of them you should have a look at his words, and although we are a mixture of many pillagers and invaders,the celts being but one, in my mind, it has only made us a stronger race, who never kow tow, and just try and get on it with it as best we can. we have no airs and graces...

as for spending our disposable income on alcohol. I believe this is something which you engage in wholeheartedly

The Corinthian

Originally posted by bug
On another note Corinthian Im quite surprised at your comments on Irish culture and hopefully you used the differences just to make the point to the original poster that he should stay at home if he cannot get used to the differences. Im surprised at the sweeping statements.

Actually, I was more demonstrating that it’s easy to make sweeping statements rather than holding them myself. The comments on hygiene, alcoholism and dress sense are actually ones I’ve heard upon occasion from Italians - proving that anyone can be as judgemental as detrement/liam24 without having any clue.

Being half Irish and having lived in Ireland for most of my life, I’m hardly in a position to criticise Ireland too severely without some level of satire anyway.

as for spending our disposable income on alcohol. I believe this is something which you engage in wholeheartedly

Ahem... :rolleyes:

slieveb

detriment, I dunno if you are still around or if you will even see this, but I just joined this forum today and couldn't resist passing comment.
I disagree with the generality of your posts, but I'm not here to have a go at you or defend Italy.

I've spent time in a few foreign places (I'm in one now) and I know what alienation and difficult adaptation feels like, but you seem to have a bad case of it. I spent a year in Milan in the nineties and can empathize with some of what you say but I never got quite so negative.

A quick word on the food though, I found their food so varied that I never really missed not having Indian, Chinese or whatever.

Anyway, I'm wondering: did you change your mind or are you back in Ireland? Also, did you choose Florence yourself and what were your expectations before going?
If you really hate it, well I suppose you won't stay. I think it's a pity, because, after a dodgy start, I really got to like Italy and have been back several times on holiday. I presume you can't see any chance of changing your mind??

bombidol

Im with the dude on the food thing. i found 99% of places were of the cheese, tomato and pasta variety. was difficult to add variety to eating when i was in Rome. Again, im sure if you were there for a few weeks or so you may find a few places that would cater to your place. but at the same time, everywhere is not for everyone. the bloke obviously doesnt like the place , it doesnt suit him. I dont think he's wrong in not liking a place that other people Do like. Each to their own and all that jazz.

slieveb

Originally posted by bombidol
but at the same time, everywhere is not for everyone. the bloke obviously doesnt like the place , it doesnt suit him. I dont think he's wrong in not liking a place that other people Do like. Each to their own and all that jazz.

Absolutely, didn't meant to suggest otherwise.

Club_Med

what`s 1 positve thing u exeprienced in Italy detriment ?

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Gordon
*titter*

Very funny and very funny repostes.

Best post in a long time!

detriment

ok,just,two,things.firstly,i,was,told,by,a,professor,of,art,at,the,university,of,florence,that,florence,was,the,home,of,futurism.secondly,i,was,talking,about,motorists,not,stopping,at,pedestrian,crossings.i'm,not,saying,anymore,about,it.i,just,hope,italy,sinks,into,the,sea,and,takes,its,****ing,culture,with,it.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by detriment
i,was,told,by,a,professor,of,art,at,the,university,of,florence,that,florence,was,the,home,of,futurism.

Arguable (meaning I believe you to be lying). And even if it were it would not change the fact that it is principally recognised as the home of the Renaissance, whose art you were complaining about in the first place.

secondly,i,was,talking,about,motorists,not,stopping,at,pedestrian,crossings.

Diddums. Look where you’re going next time you cross the road.

i'm,not,saying,anymore,about,it.i,just,hope,italy,sinks,into,the,sea,and,takes,its,****ing,culture,with,it.

I’m really not surprised you didn’t have a nice time with that attitude. So, why don’t you just run back to Ballygospittlebackwards like the good muck savage you are? Come back when you develop a culture.

Che cafone :rolleyes:

slieveb

Well said TC.

As for the Ballygobackways comment, my experience is that the Irish who have most trouble settling abroad come from Dublin. JMHO.

alastair

Never been to Florence, but have to say two things:

1. Public transport in ANY Italian region I've been in is leagues better than the sad system we put up with. The number Mussolini did on the trains seems to have lasted longer than the politics.

2. Any areshole of nowhere village/town appears to have affordable and good quality food, both in shops and restaurants. Leave the handful of culinary oasis' in Ireland and you're pretty much screwed.

I've had my hassles in Italy in the past, and been frustrated by how some things operate (multiple queues and tickets etc for a simple coffee?!), but I don't have much sympathy for your list of moans.

mneylon

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Che cafone :rolleyes:

Sei stato troppo gentile con lui. Cafone? Avrei detto qualcosa molto piu forte.