Suggestion [rating system]

Barry Aldwell

On another vBulletin board which I frequent there is a "penalty points" system in place, where moderators may give a reason why there is a problem with a post and assign it "penalty points", which disappear after a time limit set by the moderator when the points are given. I think this system would be very handy here, where there are often threads shouting "Why was I banned" etc. as there is a ticker beneath the "report this post to a moderator | ip logged" button that gives the amount of "points" amassed by the user, and acts as a link to a list of the points, the posts they were given for and the reason for the points. When a user gets 10 points, they get a temp ban. When a user gets 20 points, permanent ban. It would act as a fair and open way of telling people what's not acceptable, yet give them a chance to redeem themselves by being good little boys for a while.

swiss

This type of arrangement has been on boards.ie in the past, in the form of Karma *shudder*. Karma was assigned to users by moderators and administrators based on whether a particular poster was being helpful or being a muppet. In reality though the vast majority of users had a Karma of "0" because they continued on just as they had always done, and there seemed no reason to reward or punish them especially for that. You also had the situation where a few moderators used the Karma feature more than others, leading to the false impression that some users were angelic or complete muppets based on one or two moderators impressions.

Karma wasn't ever used to ban anyone, IIRC. However, it was used as a general indication of muppetry, and one of the main reasons for it's inception was to let the newbie see whether a particular user had a reputation for doing naughty things (tm). This premise too was flawed since the newbie wouldn't necessarily know what Karma ratings meant.

Also, like the "penalty points" system you propose, Karma did gravitate towards zero after a period of time. I never liked the idea of Karma, for the simple reason that if it was decided that you were a "bad" poster (tm) by a particular moderator, you were essentially flagged throughout the site. I'm not saying individual moderators abused this system, but that the potential was there for abuse. Plus of course, if someone is a muppet they get banned. If they're determined to behave they usually register another account. If that account then turns to muppetry then DeVore powers get called into play.

amp

DeVore

Yeah, I think we should just have 0 tolerance instead.
I wouldnt mind a hidden black mark system so that if a mod or admin thought the user was a muppet he could add his name to a list of mods unhappy with that user and then I could more efficently find cases that needed review but Karma as it was, or anything like it, is unlikely to return. It also caused unholy accrimony in the user community who didnt appreciate being "rated".

DeV.

ecksor

I wouldn't mind trying out a karma like system based on a limited currency notion.

CuLT

Maybe try out one that hasn't got a serious motive behind it,

like a "Rate My Rack" or something for laughs to get people used to the idea of having a rating system and get them comfortable (or see if they hate it altogether).

At least that way you avoid rubbing too many people up the wrong way.

halenger

You could set the system so that mods/admins etc could only increment the rating and wouldn't actually see the rating so as to be unbiased. Then being limited to one vote per user (as in the mod/whoever could only add one point to a particular user). The higher ups could then have a system that notified them or at least just have a list from highest to lowest of muppets.

This would allow higher ups to keep an eye on who was being flagged as a severe muppet by a large number of admins.

There's lots of details and intricicies that could be added if they were felt necessary. I.e. a list of mods who have tagged a user beside the user name and user rating. Then click on the user for a list of reasons and so on and so on.

Paddy20

Ahem!, and how would the Admins moderate, errant moderators ?..

P.:ninja:

yellum

Originally posted by Paddy20
Ahem!, and how would the Admins moderate, errant moderators ?..

Indeed Paddy20. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Moriarty

Wont somebody think of the cliques?!!!¬~?

Crash

Hehe, i demand that if this is brought in it is called the "rate my rack" fucntion, as suggested by CuLT.

Redshift

Alot of forums just use a plain old fashioned warning system in the form of five pips starting at yellow and progressing through orange, red and then to black. Generally they are viewable to everone but when Boards goes to VB3 the built in conditionals would make it easy to restrict them to only show to mods or even just to admins. Another feature in the new version is user notes which I use on my forum in lueu of a warning system. My mods can leave invisible notes on a users profile which other mods and myself can view it helps when making a decision to see if that user has had issues before. Boards does need some way to track and collate information on problem users.

ecksor

User notes by the Mods strike me as terribly useful, but I'm wary of anything that leaves us open to discovery.

CuLT

Embrace Big Brother!
He will show us the way and its power.

Lump

Wasn't that Karma thingy tried before and didn't it fail?



John

amp

I think the mod board is fine for this. The way a user acts in one board doesn't necessarily mean that they will act this way on other boards. Users aren't units which can be classified into boxes marked "muppet" or "well-behaved".

Littletinyman was a good example of how the current system works. Mods reported their bannings of him until he was banned from the entire site. Obviously LTM is an extreme example but even so it still worked. Mods were on the look out for him and banned him quickly when he did something worth banning.

And given our experience with Karma and my general feelings of trying to classify the very analogue human condition I wouldn't be in favour of any such systems. It seems to me that this is another suggestion to fix a problem that I personally just don't think we have.

maxheadroom

Originally posted by Redshift
Another feature in the new version is user notes which I use on my forum in lueu of a warning system. My mods can leave invisible notes on a users profile which other mods and myself can view it helps when making a decision to see if that user has had issues before. Boards does need some way to track and collate information on problem users.

You need to be quite careful about data protection issues if you're going to track informtion about people and not make it available to them by default...

http://www.dataprotection.ie/3bii.htm

irishgeo

Originally posted by maxheadroom
You need to be quite careful about data protection issues if you're going to track informtion about people and not make it available to them by default...

http://www.dataprotection.ie/3bii.htm

There is always one.Like the spyware on your computer follows the data protection act and its only a number or a count of blackmarks.

ecksor

There's actually two, since that's how the discovery I mentioned would most likely occur. Spyware has nothing to do with this, and all data falls under it whether it's a number or not, but not all of the suggestions are regarding numbers or some sort of quantitative rating system.

SHAMAN

I remmber Karma. It wasn't a question of vast majority. Everyone had level Karma really. Well, I tell a lie (this is humanity here after all) The level dropped off rapidly as it was as if Karma sparked off an Age of Spamming (has anything changed?).
Personally, I enjoy the tyranny of moderation. 'Nuff said. Remember though, that there are in fact a kind of secret police in place (lets call Watchers, for fun) that gazes down upon all, sending many an errant poster, moderater and newbie alike into the abyss (we used to have an abyss. Wasn't too bad to be honest, it was called the Troll board. Oh good times. Like the Communism board, that went on forever). But that's besides the point.

Yes, into the Abyss...They could of course just die every so often, hit by a car or somthing on their way to their PC, I dunno.

Redshift

Originally posted by maxheadroom
You need to be quite careful about data protection issues if you're going to track informtion about people and not make it available to them by default...

http://www.dataprotection.ie/3bii.htm

On my forum they are used in the following way only.

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Warning Issued by Ryan on 03/01/2004 [Reason] [Punishment] 1

---

It allows staff to keep track of Idiots easier and as you can see it contains no information that the user is not aware of.

Victor

I assume it's similar to the one here

http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board/

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by Victor
I assume it's similar to the one here

http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board/

That is in fact the other "vBulletin board which I frequent"

You have to be registered to see the system, though