[Article] Ray Burke paid €41,492 pension as ex-minister

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
Yes they were - otherwise they would not not been claimed for or payment of which sanctioned.[/quote[
No they were not. Are you saying that the party that gave us Charlie Haughey would never stoop to approving payment of an unethical expense?

Why don't you think the oppostion are not running with this one?

Who can outvote a Dail majority?
But nonetheless, here we are talking about it.
So I suppose that the many opposition parties are actually running with it, as well as the many other issues on which this government must be brought to task.

SF claim expenses from Westminister & don't even take up their seats.Are these expenses legitimate?

I believe you'll find that those expenses apply in another nation's jurisdiction, and not our own...

Cork

Who can outvote a Dail majority?

No, but opposition partys could issue a statement if they were so concerned.

those expenses apply in another nation's jurisdiction, and not our own...

O thats ok then. So, long as it does not occur in our back yard. SF are a political party thatoperate in this country.

They are the same organisation that operates in both the UK and Northern Ireland.

What expenses have they been claiming? Have they been claiming for offices in Westminister? Do they take their MEP salarys without taking their seats? How much money is involved??

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
No, but opposition partys could issue a statement if they were so concerned.

Indeed. And if I did not think them to be as dishonest as the FF/PD coalition, I'd be berating them for not having done so outside the Dail, where they've happily berated the government parties.

O thats ok then. So, long as it does not occur in our back yard. SF are a political party thatoperate in this country.

Indeed they are. But I'm not so arrogant to think that I can dictate the rules for another soverign nation. Are you?

Instead, I'd rather hold my government responsible for their actions, and leave other governments to their peoples.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
How much does RTE pay it's "stars"?
How much do they spend on "make-up" for its presenters?
This is a public service broadcaster partly serviced by the licence payer?

For RTE to spend money on makeup is akin to Eircom spending money on fiber-optic cable, or Aer Lingus spending money on jet fuel. It's the cost of providing the service.
The government does not need to spend money on Mary Harney's makeup to do business.
And please, before you say that it's a needed expense before going on the news - please rememmber that RTE pays for makeup put on Bertie before he appears on TV. Not the government per se.
So we're not talking here about money spent on primping Harney for television appearances - but for day-to-day appearances.

Now I don't know about you Cork, but I pay less than a tenner a month for a decent haircut, and a suit lasts me more than a few years.
So 15,000 on haircuts is a luxurious extravagance.
And with Mary, it really is moving deckchairs on the Titanic....

If we as a nation want to get value for every cent - why don't we reform the whole welfare system - when a person gets a job - they pay back any social welfare benefits obtained?
The same could go for graduates and third level fees.

We do both cork, it's a radical new scheme called income tax.

Well....

Some of us do both.... others join or buy the government....

Victor

Originally posted by Cork
I think the purchase of the jet was financed thru savings.

Yes, they decided to get another few years out of 40 year old SAR helicopters (no radar, no FLIR, no all weather capability).

Cork would you depend on a 40 year old ambulance?

Cork

Now I don't know about you Cork, but I pay less than a tenner a month for a decent haircut, and a suit lasts me more than a few years.

I don't wear suits and I pay €8 per hair cut every 3 months.

All political Partys claim expenses?

Why single out Mary Harney?

She is not the only TD in Dail Eireann claiming expenses or is she the leader of the only party doing so.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
I don't wear suits and I pay €8 per hair cut every 3 months.

So why defend someone who wastes fifteen thousand euro on haircuts?

All political Partys claim expenses?
Why single out Mary Harney?

She wasn't singled out. The initial report lists expenses from several TDs - however Harney's case really does take the cake for two reasons:
1) In her case it really is paint on a crumbling facade;
2) She's the one advising us to "shop around" and tighten our belts.

Victor

Originally posted by Cork
All political Partys claim expenses?

Not for make-up. Many opposition TDs / MEPs (Greens / Socialist come to mind straight away) even donate a substantial part of their salaries to their parties. Each larger party gets a leader's allowance, which is meant to go on the **exceeptional** expenses of being a party leader (personal assistant, reseach staff) and I suppose "how not to look like anorak man in front of the world's press", however cecertain people are taking the p.

Cork

Originally posted by Victor
Many opposition TDs / MEPs (Greens / Socialist come to mind straight away) even donate a substantial part of their salaries to their parties.

TDs are paid a salary but they are also ENTITLED TO expenses.

TDs can donate money to what ever charities or partys they like. That is their business.

How much of Tax Payers money did it cost to keep Joe Hggins in Jail?

She's the one advising us to "shop around" and tighten our belts.

People crib about rip off Ireland & then when when Mary Harney encourages people to be consumer aware - they are criticised.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
TDs are paid a salary but they are also ENTITLED TO expenses.

They are entitled to claim for valid expenses Cork - an important distinction.

How much of Tax Payers money did it cost to keep Joe Hggins in Jail?

Too much. Perhaps the government should have served the people rather than the WTO and thus saved that money...

People crib about rip off Ireland & then when when Mary Harney encourages people to be consumer aware - they are criticised.

And rightly so. Telling people to "shop around" ignores the fact that all the shops are charging over-the-odds prices.
It was a stupid, callous and uninformed comment and she should not have made it. And that she did shows she has no idea of the problems we require her kind to solve.

Originally posted by Sparks

And rightly so. Telling people to "shop around" ignores the fact that all the shops are charging over-the-odds prices.
It was a stupid, callous and uninformed comment and she should not have made it. And that she did shows she has no idea of the problems we require her kind to solve.

Hmmm, dunno whether one should take that attitude, I shopped around for a best price on cavity blocks before christmas.
The first place had them at €1.35 each whereas the exact same block four miles away was 85 cent a block.
On a thousand blocks thats a very significant saving.

Shop around folks-to paraphrase animal farm, some rip off more than others.

Cork

Maybe that campaign made people more consumer aware.

Maybe it was beneficial on the run up to Christmas.

They are entitled to claim for valid expenses Cork - an important distinction

If these expenses were not valid - why were the allowed?

Have more TDs claimed for such expenses?

Do TDS not claim for overnight expenses?

It is not only women TDS who use make up & the like.

Bydad - Men Folk have started as well.

Many TDS & Conucillers have claimed much in expenses.

The Farmers Journal ran a league table during the year for concillers.

It is not party or gender specific.

Capt'n Midnight

Do chance of a link to that leagure table ?
Or the one about the senators expenses ?

Cork

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Do chance of a link to that leagure table ?
Or the one about the senators expenses ?

Sorry I don't. It was not on their website at the time it came out.

I think their circulation jumped that week.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
Maybe that campaign made people more consumer aware.

No, it'd didn't. People were made consumer aware by a few hundred years of poverty Cork. A single speech by Harney wouldn't do that - it simply shows her lack of understanding of the problems she's supposed to solve.

Maybe it was beneficial on the run up to Christmas.

Nope.

If these expenses were not valid - why were the allowed?

Corruption.

Have more TDs claimed for such expenses?

Yup.

Many TDS & Conucillers have claimed much in expenses.

And what does that mean? That if there's a lot of corruption, it's right?
:rolleyes:

Cork

Is there one TD that is not claiming expenses?

People in many jobs around this country claim expenses.

There is nothing wrong at claiming expenses.

If you take up a job & you are permitted to claim certaim expenses -

How is the claimant wrong in claiming what he is entitled to?

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
Is there one TD that is not claiming expenses?

And what does that mean? That if there's a lot of corruption, it's right?
:rolleyes:

People in many jobs around this country claim expenses.

Yes, but they're not claiming them off taxpayers.

There is nothing wrong at claiming expenses.

Correct, if and only if those expenses are valid. If they are not, it's called embezzlement.

How is the claimant wrong in claiming what he is entitled to?

Where does it say that Harney is entitled to claim for 15,000 for haircuts?

You'll need a bigger whitewash brush Cork...

Originally posted by Sparks

Yes, but they're not claiming them off taxpayers.

Thats debateable.
while certainly in the last few finance acts the rules governing the taxing of payments in kind to employee's have been tightened, they are still an expense in a companies accounts on which tax relief is claimed.
Therefore every other tax payer is subsidising them to an extent.

Cork

Originally posted by Sparks

You'll need a bigger whitewash brush Cork...

Sparks - Its Christmas, For the season thats in it - Do you begrudge politicians a little make -up?

Value For Money is important be that Building tunnels (Like the Dublin Port one), bridges, roads etc.

Where does it say that Harney is entitled to claim for 15,000 for haircuts?

It She was not entitled to them - Such expenses would not be allowed.

Originally posted by Sparks

Where does it say that Harney is entitled to claim for 15,000 for haircuts?

:eek: :eek: :eek:
How much??
Was that in one year, did she have gold plated highlights in or something??
I don't see how any expense like that could be justified, indeed it would be evidence that she did not shop around

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
Sparks - Its Christmas, For the season thats in it - Do you begrudge politicians a little make -up?

Cork, I don't know what kind of prices you get down there, but up here 15,000 is not a little make-up - it's enough to paint a house.
So no, I don't begrudge them it - I would forbid them from charging us such an outlandish fee.

Value For Money is important be that Building tunnels (Like the Dublin Port one), bridges, roads etc.

And how do you suggest we get value for money buying makeup and haircuts for Mary Harney?
(Without buying a large brown paper bag and cutting eyeholes, that is)

She was not entitled to them

Correct.

Such expenses would not be allowed.

Incorrect. And we already know that invalid expenses are granted to TDs, we have proof of this in Charlie Haughey's clothing bills...

Cork

Look TDs claim expenses for meals and overnight accomadation.

The 15k figure was over a period.

She was prefectly entitled to these expenses.

Political Partys get various allowance.

Is there something wrong with these?

We live in a media & TV age. Politicians are expected to look well 24/7.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
Look TDs claim expenses for meals and overnight accomadation.

This was not a claim for meals or overnight expenses. (Mind you, had it been, we'd have needed another few zeros...)

The 15k figure was over a period.

Of one year. That's more than a thousand euro per month on something the rest of us spend about ten to twenty euro on in a month.

She was prefectly entitled to these expenses.

No, she wasn't - and I dare you to prove she was.

Political Partys get various allowance.
Is there something wrong with these?

Yes. They shouldn't allow for frivilous, extravagant, unnecessary luxuries.

We live in a media & TV age. Politicians are expected to look well 24/7.

No, they're not. They're expected to be competent and honest.
Perhaps if they spent more time worrying about that and less on whether or not an obese woman has enough lipstick and a new haircut, we'd all be better off!

Cork

They're expected to be competent and honest.

Mary Harney is both competant & honest.

She claimed expenses that She was perfectly entitled to.

Where is the story?

There isn't any.

This is tabloid fare. It is not politics.

Mary Harney has done great work with regards to both jobs and taxation.


If you only can criticise her claiming some expenses - She is doing a great job.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
Mary Harney is both competant & honest.

Really?
Prove it.

She claimed expenses that She was perfectly entitled to.

I'd love to see you prove she was entitled to claim 15,000 euro for haircuts Cork.
Go on, show me where it says that that's a valid expense.

If you only can criticise her claiming some expenses - She is doing a great job.

Don't happen to work in someone's "communications department", do you Cork? :rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.maryharney.ie/constituency/harney043.html

Notice To All News And Photographic Editors

And when you try to view what we're getting for out €15K...


The requested URL /images/news/Harney.gif was not found on this server.

She seems to be shopping around - Apache/1.3.26

Cork

Originally posted by Sparks
Really?

I'd love to see you prove she was entitled to claim 15,000 euro for haircuts :

Don't have to.

She claimed and was granted such expenses.

It is a private metter between her and her employer.

It is no wonder - why the government cut back on the FOI Act.

Where is the story?

TD claims for expenses.

Wow.

Many people in this country are claiming expenses be they milage or otherwise.

If they are allowed thats a metter for their department/company or organisation.

The 15k story is a fluff piece during a slow news period.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
Don't have to.

No, you mean "can't".

She claimed and was granted such expenses.
It is a private metter between her and her employer.

We are her employer...

It is no wonder - why the government cut back on the FOI Act.

Indeed! Damned uppity serfs, actually wanting to see where their tax money goes!

Many people in this country are claiming expenses be they milage or otherwise.

Dunno 'bout you cork, but I know what would happen if I claimed 15,000 euro for a year's haircuts....

If they are allowed thats a metter for their department/company or organisation.

That would be us cork, since we pay their wages...

The 15k story is a fluff piece during a slow news period.

No, it's an important note on the ethics of our TDs.
Same way that showing what CJH was doing with his expenses account in the '80s was, same way that showing the driving habits of FF TDs was, same way that showing the investment habits of TDs was.
These people apply for the job of leading the country Cork, they claim that they are better than us and so should have the job.
Which is why these kinds of stories are important.

Cork

Originally posted by Sparks


Which is why these kinds of stories are important.

No alone are government TDs claiming expenses.

Opposition TDs are.

Mary Harney is a decent Lady. Through out the whole public sector expenses are claimed. These expenses were allowed.

Do you think the Controller & Auditor General is not doing his job?

Victor

Originally posted by Cork
No alone are government TDs claiming expenses. Opposition TDs are.

For hair and make-up? Cork what you fail to be acknowledging is the system, while apparently legal, has gone too far.

Does this mean next time I'm away from home I can claim expenses for all the creature comforts, including female company, the business trip deprives me of?