Spurs for the drop?

therecklessone

First things first, I am a Spurs fan.

That out of the way, I am convinced that Spurs will go down this season. Another defeat yesterday to leave us in the bottom three, and not looking anywhere like a team with the confidence or ability to pull themselves back up.

Apparently Freddie Kanoute has been called up by Mali (!!!) for the Nation's Cup, and if he decides to go we'll miss him for 6 weeks. Redknapp and Davies look no closer to returning from injury, Ziege is a lost cause, and Poyet/Anderton should be put out to pasture. One good thing has been the emergence of Ricketts and Jackson in midfield, but thats it.

Alledgedly, £15 is to be made available for the January sales, but I seriously believe it is too little, too late. If Leeds can avoid selling any of their few remaining crown jewels, they will out-perform us, leaving us to fight it out with Pompey, Wolves and Leicester for the bottom 3 places. Ironic, considering each team features a former Spurs striker...

Piss taking aside, any thoughts?

smiaras

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therecklessone

Originally posted by smiaras
although saying that its not like Postiga is doing the business for them.

Postiga was a strange buy and no mistake. £6.25 million up front, and another £2 in appearance/performance fees??? Particularly considering they were going to get Zamora for a song, and Kanoute coming in shortly after for £3 million or so. Bizarre.

Brown will be a welcome addition, but they really need two decent defenders (left back to replace the animal Taricco) and a holding midfielder. Can't see £15 million doing that for them.

James R

While I think Spurs will have a poor season I still think they have too much class to go down. Robbie Keane will bag a few goals between now and May guaranteed. Just a pity Spurs keep buying good strikers and turning them into 3rd Division standard ones (Rebrov, Postiga)

The Muppet

I can't see spurs go down either , Pleat knows his football and will get his players to do enough to stay up. Brown is on his way but I would be surprised if they buy big before the arrival of a new manager unless of course the new manager is already known but under contract elsewhere and has an input in any likely transfer.

smiaras

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smiaras

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SuprSi

I fear greatly for the team this season, and I don't think they have the bottle to fight their way out of a relegation battle. It's a sad state of affairs when you don't expect the team you love to win their home games against teams like Southampton, Charlton, etc.

Appartently Pleat has been quoted as saying that he isn't sure he'll last the rest of the season in charge, which was interesting as I don't know what the club would do in the mean time, and I don't believe that Hughton has what it takes either - he's been there for the past 10 years and is part of what has happened to the club.

I'm one very worried Spurs fan.

therecklessone

Originally posted by SuprSi
and I don't believe that Hughton has what it takes either - he's been there for the past 10 years and is part of what has happened to the club.

He is the one constant after all...:D

In fairness to him, he is highly rated. Its not the job he wants at this stage of his career, but I don't blame him one bit.

Things look worse than I feared. Kanoute looks certain to travel to the Nations Cup (I imagine in the hope that he will shine in the shop window, so he can find a club when we get relegated), and according to one of the papers today (can't remember which one), Brown may be the only arrival in the transfer window.

Keane will not be able to lift the club on his own, and with confidence at an all time low, things look particularly dodgy. Pleat doesn't even know if he'll be there until the end of the season. Its chaotic.

smiaras

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SuprSi

I have to admit that over the last few years Curbishley has done really well with Charlton and I'd welcome him as the Spurs manager, but with Charlton doing so well, he'd have to dig deep to leave that club, and if they get Champions League football he'd be stupid to go.

Him, O'Neill, or Mourhino (FC Porto coach) are three names that I'd welcome.

kmart6

In honesty I cant see Spurs being relagated there to good to be,ok there not doing well at the moment but they will improve











500th POST..................YEH!!!!!!!!!!!!

James R

To be honest I think Curbishly would be mad to leave Charlton. They're certainly on the up, they have a stadium extension almost in place and they're one of the few Premiership clubs not in the red

smiaras

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SuprSi

Charlton are moving to a bigger stadium, or at least have plans to, but I don't think they have the financial clout or reputation that Spurs have. They can certainly get there, and are in the process of it, but it might take longer to get them consistently good than Spurs, who are really just short of a couple of decent signings, and of course a good manager!

therecklessone

Originally posted by kmart6
In honesty I cant see Spurs being relagated there to good to be,

They said the same about West Ham last year, Blackburn before that, and Forest before that.

Reputation is not enough to guarantee survival. Points are.

phenom

teams pts
man city 21
blackburn 21
middlesbrough 21
portsmouth 19
liecester 18
tottenham, 18
leeds 17
wolves 14
this is the bottom of the prem table . i find it very unlikely that leicester will stay up and tottenham go down . as far as im concerned tottenham will stay up and leicester will go down

James R

Originally posted by SuprSi
Charlton are moving to a bigger stadium, or at least have plans to, but I don't think they have the financial clout or reputation that Spurs have. They can certainly get there, and are in the process of it, but it might take longer to get them consistently good than Spurs, who are really just short of a couple of decent signings, and of course a good manager!

Spurs are in debt. Charlton aren't. Therefore I'd say Charlton would have the more financial clout wouldn't you?! Finishing high in the Premiership would make them more attractive to top players plus they are in London which is an attractive venue for players. Also the new stadium will bring in more revenue for transfers with an extra 20,000 or so at matches.

therecklessone

Originally posted by phenom
teams pts
man city 21
blackburn 21
middlesbrough 21
portsmouth 19
liecester 18
tottenham, 18
leeds 17
wolves 14
this is the bottom of the prem table . i find it very unlikely that leicester will stay up and tottenham go down . as far as im concerned tottenham will stay up and leicester will go down

What you're missing here is goal difference, and particularly goals scored. Leicester have scored 9 goals more than Spurs (and we bought 3 strikers during the Summer!!!), and a goal difference of -3, compared to Spurs' -10. Freddie Kanoute is off to the shop window that is the African Nations Cup (missing trick ties against Liverpool and Fulham, and a vital tie against Leeds), so we're left with Postiga and Zamora (watch those goals fly in...:rolleyes: ) to accompany Keane up front. I don't see that goal-scoring record changing much, do you?

Quite apart from that, its not Leicester we have to worry about. If Leeds can last until the end of the season without selling any major players then they will be the club we end up fighting with for the third relegation spot. I don't fancy that.

smiaras

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Big Ears

charlton has the attraction of being a quite family club if u know what i mean. thats a big attration. Uefa cup football looks a strong possibility for charlton.Spurs may have money but we all know spurs sign **** players all the time for lots of money.But if u remeber madrid wanting 14 million for morientes and spurs love of strikers he could go there :eek: .(as far as i know morientes loan contract runs out now (i think ) ).

Spurs for the drop: definetly. its a foregone conclusion.

James Hunt

I have to laugh every time I hear a Spurs fan saying that O'Neill is in the running to take over at White Hart Lane.

Spurs are not a big club and they have zero hope of landing a big time manager like him. In my opinion, they will stick to those average managers on the continent or a Peter Reid - Terry Venables type patchwork to keep them up. It has been mentioned that Spurs are in the process of getting their house in order so to speak and as Spurs fans will know this is long overdue as they have been mediocre for a long time, but a top manager won't go there until the house IS in order and there is money to spend on new players. Sadly, in this day and age, that may require an Abramovich type figure in order to challenge for the title, but thats the way it is. If Spurs get any kind of consistant success or at least a sustainable title (4th place) push, then fans will come flooding out of the woodwork - then they can target O'Neill for the final push. Villa and Everton are in the same boat in many ways.

smiaras

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SuprSi

Spurs have a much bigger fan base than Charlton (I've never met a Charlton fan!), and HAVE much more financial clout than them, despite the fact that they may be in the red (and that's only marginally).

As James Hunt said, all the club need is some consistent success (isn't that what every club needs!!), which is possible with the right manager who can get the best out of whatever players he has. Curbishley, Chris Coleman, and Martin O'Neill do it. If Spurs started playing well, and getting a few good results, then moving up the table, the club would start earning more money. The reason they're in debt this year is because of poor results last season. If things improve on the pitch, they improve off it which equals more money. UEFA cup would keep plenty of fans happy, at least for a couple of seasons.

therecklessone

Originally posted by smiaras


Rumours are abounding that the club are looking to get rid of Kanoute now because of his decision to play for Mali.

More like Kanoute is looking to get rid of Spurs!!! Why else would he be going to the Nations Cup? Shop window anybody???

kmart6

Originally posted by therecklessone
More like Kanoute is looking to get rid of Spurs!!! Why else would he be going to the Nations Cup? Shop window anybody???

Unfortunatly,that could be true,it would be a shame cause you need someone to score goals

But maybe he justs wants to represent his country

mr_angry

As an Arsenal fan, there was a time where I would have said "I'd love it if Spurs do go down. Haha". But the fact is, Spurs are now too insignificant to worry about. In the past few seasons, I've been more worried about one of our lads picking up an injury against Spurs, rather than them taking any points off us. I'm sorry if that offends any Spurs fans - I'm not trying to insult you, but its just the truth. Once upon a time, we were supposed to have some kind of rivalry, or something.

Chris Coleman has demonstrated the kind of difference a good manager can make, but they don't exactly grow on trees, do they? Who else is going to have that kind of effect for Spurs in an already competitive league? Personally, I don't think Martin O'Neill really wants to give up Champions League football for a crack at a relegation battle, do you? If he's going anywhere, it'll be to a team playing Champions League football (most likely Liverpool, at this stage). Having said that, I think Liverpool will be true to their work - if Houllier delivers 4th place, he'll keep his job. I think O'Neill will stay where he is, until something better crops up.

p.s. I can't understand people slagging of Kanoute - the man obviously has a desire to play for his country in a major competition. Kanu's being doing it for years, and I've never complained, although I know other Arsenal fans have. If Ireland were playing in a major competition, I'd be gutted if our players felt more inclined to stay with their clubs than put on the green jersey.

Big Ears

this is becasue kanoute's first country is france mali is only his second.

therecklessone

Bet me to it Big Ears.

Kanoute was born in France, and has played for their U-21s. He has also played a friendly for Mali (in 1998).

Previously, the U-21 cap would have been enough to tie him to the French side (Mali friendly wouldn't count, because it was a non-competitive match), but under new FIFA regulations he can change his country because he hasn't played a full international for France yet.

mr_angry, there is a difference between Kanu and Kanoute. Kanu was a Nigerian international before Arsenal signed him. Kanoute was French when we signed him.

Its not the fact that he's choosing to play for his "country" that annoys me. Its the fact that he's doing it when his club are up to their neck in sh*t and badly need him. I believe he's going in the hope of being spotted by a few European coaches, not out of some desire to represent his adopted country, and certainly not in teh pursuit of international glory. Mali for the Nations Cup? :rolleyes:

Big Ears

i understand he's fully egible to play for mali im just saying its not his main country and theres could only be two reasons for kanoute going to play for mali in the nations cup. He wants to get into the shop window or is frustrated at not getting on the french team and this is his only realistic international option.

This would be a huge boost for mali asa often their players would be ones playing in 1st 2nd 3rd division teams around europe.Or othr african clubs not in Mali.

The Muppet

Kanoute was born in France, and has played for their U-21s. He has also played a friendly for Mali

There is another side effect of this and that is declaring for Mali makes him a non european player and as European teams are only allowed field 3 non european players per squad this could affect his value in the transfer market. No wonder Spurs are far from happy and I suspect they will sell him as soon as possible. The fact that he is willing to leave his club fighting relegation shows a distinct lack of loyalty and commitment to his club.

smiaras

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Aliminator

Originally posted by therecklessone
Mali for the Nations Cup? :rolleyes:

they did get to the semi's last time round. only fukn Ntl got rid of eurosport for E4 so we didn't see it as much.
listen to ye. ur like gary neville. the club is most important blah blah blah. to play for your country is far better.
maybe kanoute will got to the nations cup, score a few, get better confidence and come back and shame the lot of ya. (i.e. helping ye out of the drop zone).
but like mr_angry there, i am an arsenal fan, and after that game against Utd. a few years back for hte premiership i will never support spurs in any way again. good ridence if ye go down.

Big Ears

the muppet u seem like some1 who would prefer united wining the league again to ireland winning the world cup.:(

therecklessone

Originally posted by Aliminator

listen to ye. ur like gary neville. the club is most important blah blah blah. to play for your country is far better.

Bullsh*t. I've never said that. The fact is that when he was signed he was French. Reasonable enough to expect that he would not need to feck off for a month of African football.

He is a great player, and the way he played today he will be badly missed. He'll miss four Prem matches (including a massive match against Leeds), and at least one (possibly two) FA Cup matches. At this stage of Tottenham's season the simple fact is we can't afford to lose him. Considering the fact that he is only a recent convert to the Mali cause (I doubt he mentioned the issue during his contract negotiations), I think he should stay with his club.

smiaras

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eirebhoy

Originally posted by The Muppet
There is another side effect of this and that is declaring for Mali makes him a non european player and as European teams are only allowed field 3 non european players per squad this could affect his value in the transfer market.

I think this rule is gone now and you can field what you like.

Man U -v- Everton:

Man Utd: Howard, Gary Neville, Ferdinand, Silvestre (Djemba-Djemba 72), O'Shea (Scholes 50), Ronaldo, Butt, Kleberson, Fortune, Forlan, Bellion. Subs not used: Carroll, van Nistelrooy, Giggs.

See, you should have known.

James R

I don't know if that rule applies anymore either but Djemba Djemba holds French citizenship while I think Fortune qualifies as an english man now for being x amount of years in the country. Kind of like there was talk of Cudicini qualifying to play for England soon as hes uncapped for Italy etc.

I could be wrong but I think at least one of the other 3 has some kind of European passport. I don't recall any of them waiting for a work permit (maybe I'm wrong!)? and none of them had played over 20 times for their country when they signed.

therecklessone

I was gonna suggest the same as James, but wasn't too sure of the facts.

I *think* Forlan may hold an Italian passport.

Ping Chow Chi

in which case kanoute would still have his french passport and qualify still has a euro player

eirebhoy

If you want to see if more than 3 non-Euro players are allowed in a squad check CM4. (I am too lazy to check:) )

The Muppet

RULES REGARDING FOREIGN PLAYERS

SPAIN - 6 non-European Community (EC) players can be signed but only 4 are allowed to play at the same time. The players' union wants clubs to have at least 6 Spanish players on each starting team (this was caused by Louis van Gaal at Barcelona, who had only 3 Spanish players in his starting formation).

ITALY - 5 non-European players can be signed by only 3 are allowed on the pitch at the same time. The players' union wants a foreign player limit (including EC) but clubs do not.

ENGLAND - No foreign player limit but players need a work permit for the first year. This in not difficult for EC residents to obtain but non-EC players are usually required to be a member of their respective national team. Work permits will be renewed if the player plays in 75% or more of all club matches.

FRANCE - 5 non-European players can be signed but only 3 are allowed on the pitch at the same time. There is no limit for players from former French colonies. It has been proposed that there should be 6 players on each starting team who should be eligible to play for France.

HOLLAND - No foreign player limit and no future plans for setting a foreign player limit. A high minimum wage must be paid, however, which stop many clubs from buying foreign players who are only average.

PORTUGAL - 6 non-European players can be signed but only 4 are allowed to be on the pitch at the same time. Players from Brazil have EC status.

GERMANY - Only 3 non-European players are allowed to play on the pitch at the same time. Clubs must have 12 German players on the roster.



Did a bit of goggling and found above. So my bad, Eirebhoy is correct. What about eropean competitions is there any restriction on the number of non european players a team can field?