[Article] Serbian Elections - Sheeesh!

mike65

This from BBC

Ultra-nationalists top Serb poll


SRS supporters expressed jubilation in Belgrade over the weekend.

The ultra-nationalist Serbian Radical Party (SRS) has become the biggest single political force in Serbia, after parliamentary elections on Sunday.

But the party, whose leader Vojislav Seselj is held by the UN war crimes tribunal in The Hague, is not strong enough to form a government by itself.

Four pro-reform groups are now likely to form a governing coalition.

However, correspondents say the new government may be fragile, ineffective and short-lived.

An outgoing deputy prime minister, Nebojsa Covic, said voters had punished the reformist government for failing to raise living standards.


Preliminary results suggest the SRS has won about 28% of the popular vote, but it is set to take nearly one-third of the parliamentary seats.

Slobodan Milosevic's Socialist Party also won 22 seats.

Together they would be able to stop reformers putting together the two-thirds majority required for constitutional changes.

The pro-reform parties are expected to control 147 seats in the 250-seat parliament.

SRS deputy leader, Tomislav Nikolic, toasted the success with champagne and dedicated it to those awaiting trial at the United Nations tribunal for crimes allegedly committed during the wars that led to the break-up of Yugoslavia.

He said the win was also "for the citizens of Serbia who have had enough of humiliation, who want jobs, peace and security, who want to raise their children in a patriotic spirit, and who want a well-rounded state which will not rob anyone of anything but will not give anything to anyone either".

Mr Seselj and Mr Milosevic will not be able to represent their parties in parliament, and it is unclear whether they will be formally allocated seats.

A party official, Ivica Dacic, said: "Technically speaking Milosevic can be a deputy, but our party is yet to decide who is going to take up the seats."

Trouble for reformists

The Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe's representative in Serbia, Maurizio Massari, said he was "disappointed" by the result but doubted whether the success of Mr Seselj and Mr Milosevic would have "real impact" on Serbian political life.

The second most popular party, according to preliminary results, is the Democratic Party of Serbia led by Vojislav Kostunica, who replaced Mr Milosevic as Yugoslav president in 2000.


The question hovering above all of us is how effective the government can be

Outgoing deputy prime minister Zarko Korac
Mr Kostunica has been at odds with supporters of former Prime Minister Zoran Djindjic, who was assassinated in March, since soon after Mr Milosevic's overthrow.

Mr Kostunica said as he cast his ballot that he expected the elections to bring political calm to Serbia.

However, diplomats and correspondents have speculated that there could be new elections within the year.

A deputy prime minister in the outgoing government, Zarko Korac, told the BBC World Service's Newshour programme that it was now "a necessity" for the four pro-reform parties to work together.

However, he added that past experience showed it was hard to build coalitions with the leader of the fourth-placed Serbian Renewal Movement - New Serbia group, the monarchist Vuk Draskovic.

"The question hovering above all of us is how effective the government can be," he said.

Djindjic's Democratic Party appears to have improved its pre-election standing slightly to come in third place.

The surge in support for the ultra-nationalist SRS is being blamed partly on the poor state of the Serbian economy.

The party promised to improve wages and pensions, and to cut the cost of living - all popular policies with an impoverished electorate.

Methinks Serbia is a country that having to travel down a v-e-r-y long road indeed.

Mike.

sanvean

Originally posted by mike65 Methinks Serbia is a country that having to travel down a v-e-r-y long road indeed.

Mike. [/B]

in order to get a result which you would agree with?

therecklessone

Originally posted by sanvean
in order to get a result which you would agree with?

And I take it you welcome a surge in support for the people who were responsible for much of the carnage in the balkans during the mid to late 90s?

Sand

Its dissapointing but the Serbs have never really had to confront the crimes of their armies and paramilitaries in the same way the Germans had to so its easier for them to claim those stories are exaggerated or that it was justified etc etc - Still the idea of milosevic and other war crinimals being vote getters is .... depressing. At the same time it has to be remembered that left wing idealogy and nationalism have always been strongest when the economic situation is bad. Serbia is just a few good years of economic growth from having the usual centrist/right of center/left of center politics we enjoy across Europe to varying degrees. The E.U. needs to demonstrate how it can prevent another Kosovo style situation by doing what it can to assist the Serbs economy.

mike65

Originally posted by Sand
The E.U. needs to demonstrate how it can prevent another Kosovo style situation by doing what it can to assist the Serbs economy.

As I was preparing the post I thought about Serbias chances of EU membership if the "Ultras" ever got power for themselves. Would they even accept assistance I wonder...perhaps only if they could use the loot for thier own ends.

Mike.

Redleslie

Originally posted by Sand
Its dissapointing but the Serbs have never really had to confront the crimes of their armies and paramilitaries in the same way the Germans had to so its easier for them to claim those stories are exaggerated or that it was justified etc etc - Still the idea of milosevic and other war crinimals being vote getters is .... depressing.

On the Gimli thread it's claimed that muslims are a serious threat to western civilisation so why criticise the Serbs for the way they dealt with the problem? Either muslims are a big enough danger to european christian civilisation to be taken out by any means necessary or they're not. Hmm, I wonder if Gimli thought Srebrenica was worth it.

Sand

On the Gimli thread it's claimed that muslims are a serious threat to western civilisation so why criticise the Serbs for the way they dealt with the problem? Either muslims are a big enough danger to european christian civilisation to be taken out by any means necessary or they're not. Hmm, I wonder if Gimli thought Srebrenica was worth it.

On the Glimli thread it was stated that the eglatarian values that have developed in Western civillisation are rather unique. It states that widespread immigration of cultural values which are not eglatarian can present a serious problem to the preservation of laws and policies guided by eglatarian values. On the Glimli thread it was said that this issue shouldnt be simply ignored. It was also said that this cultural mindset tends to be strongest amongst first generation immigrants with later generations growing up in the Western culture pretty much from birth. Hence any problem stands a good chance of resolving itself within the first 2 or 3 generations.

Now please, really - show me where it said that all immigrants should be rounded up and massacred. Or that other Europeans ( and dont forget the Balkan muslims were/are Europeans and a part of the history and culture of the Balkans for centuries- hence the hatred and divisions ) should be rounded up and massacred. Show me where it said such death camps are not wholly at odds with western civillisations values? Hell, show me where JRD said that communist style death camps were the solution? Oh thats right - you cant, because it was never said. They really need to start issuing liscences to people before theyre allowed near a PC.

As I was preparing the post I thought about Serbias chances of EU membership if the "Ultras" ever got power for themselves. Would they even accept assistance I wonder...perhaps only if they could use the loot for thier own ends.

E.U. wont touch them with a barge pole if the nationalists get anywhere near the driving seat imo. Given how they dealt with Haider in Austria who afaik didnt have any colleagues being tried for war crimes at the time they can only deal more severely with the Serbs. Hopefully the other parties can form some sort of coalition government but I get the impression it would be a fairly weak coalition.

Nationalists might take money off the E.U. if it was offered - all the talk is for supporters and so on, theyve already said theyre not anti-E.U. but they wont be the slaves of the west etc etc. Theyll dress up any deal with the E.U. along those lines for the voters at home.

Redleslie

Originally posted by Sand
On the Glimli thread it was stated that the eglatarian values that have developed in Western civillisation are rather unique.

By egalitarian values do you mean socialist values? Anarchist values? What values?

It states that widespread immigration of cultural values which are not eglatarian can present a serious problem to the preservation of laws and policies guided by eglatarian values.

The Serbs, our fellow christians, would probably agree and that's why they had a go at fixing the problem.

Now please, really - show me where it said that all immigrants should be rounded up and massacred.

Well, explain how this evil muslim threat to western civilisation is going to be dealt with in the future without using some of the Serbian methods. You're quite happy to see thousands of non-egalitarian muslim kids blasted to bits to save the west from being attacked by Saddam, so what should be done to save western civilisation itself? Surely whatever it takes will be a price worth paying?

They really need to start issuing liscences to people before theyre allowed near a PC.

Not very consistent with your precious egalitarian views. :rolleyes:

Sand

Open a new thread or dig up the Glimli thread again and well continue there - no point discussing the glimli thread in a thread about the Serbian elections.

Victor

Originally posted by Redleslie
The Serbs, our fellow christians, would probably agree and that's why they had a go at fixing the problem.

But why did the Serb nationaist kill lots of Christian Croatians and Bosnians?

Redleslie

Originally posted by Victor
But why did the Serb nationaist kill lots of Christian Croatians and Bosnians?

Not orthodox enough I suppose. But come come, let's not quibble. As Sand said of the Iraqi kiddies killed during the war, it was a price worth paying and at the end of the day, the evil muslim hordes WHO ARE OUT TO DESTROY WESTERN CIVILISATION got a damned good stuffing.

gurramok

Originally posted by Victor
But why did the Serb nationaist kill lots of Christian Croatians and Bosnians?

Hatred through religion.
Croats being generally Catholic and the Serbs being Orthodox.

Religious hatred exists everywhere, if extremist Serbs rule their country again, they should be taught a valuable lesson through economic isolation\any means until they take responsibilty for their nazi style stance on other races\kosovo etc.

Victor

Some positive moves.

http://home.eircom.net/content/reuters/worldnews/2358798?view=Eircomnet

Serbia destroys one-man anti-aircraft missiles
From:Reuters
Friday, 16th January, 2004
By Gordana Kukic

BELGRADE (Reuters) - Serbia and Montenegro says its army will complete the destruction of 1,200 shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles next week to show support for U.S. efforts in combating terrorism.

The United States has asked all its friends to dispose of man-portable air defence systems (MANPADS) because of the potential threat they pose to civilian and military aircraft if they fall into the wrong hands.

"We want to show our goodwill and readiness to reduce the risk of MANPADS falling into the hands of terrorists by destroying these 1,200 pieces," a military official told Reuters on Friday.

A Ministry of Defence spokeswoman said a ceremony attended by the U.S. ambassador would be held on January 23 at a military compound 30 miles west of Belgrade to mark the completion of a destruction project begun last year.

Five years after the U.S.-led NATO bombing of Serbia to make it to withdraw its forces from the province of Kosovo, Belgrade's ties with the West and NATO have improved enormously.

The military official, who asked not to be named, said Belgrade was asked to destroy its stockpiles of Soviet-designed Strela (arrow) missiles, after a U.S. helicopter in Iraq had been downed by one of these missiles.

"It seems that the helicopter had been hit by a Strela missile produced in the old Yugoslavia," he told Reuters.

Communist Yugoslavia, which broke up in 1991, was a significant producer of the Strela, similar to the American Stinger. Both can bring down aircraft at short range.

Iraq was among major buyers of Yugoslav arms.

But Serbia no longer makes the missiles. "The last one was produced in the Serbian Krusik arms plant in 1992-93," the official said.

Most of the job was done already, he said. "The event next week will only mark the completion of last year's project, which was financed by the U.S. government."

Bosnia, which was another significant MANPADS producer in the region, last year also began destruction of its stockpile with the help of the SFOR stabilisation force.

The Serbian Defence Ministry said this week it would begin destroying 1.3 million stockpiled landmines this year in another part of its drive for closer ties with the West and NATO.