So... Any News Then?

MarkR

I had heard some anouncement (was it a dream?) that Eircom had reduced the wholesale prices, and that we may see a corresponding drop in price at some stage in the new year. So, any nice rumours to keep me going through the start of the new year?

Mark

Ripwave

Originally posted by MarkR
I had heard some anouncement (was it a dream?) that Eircom had reduced the wholesale prices, and that we may see a corresponding drop in price at some stage in the new year. So, any nice rumours to keep me going through the start of the new year?

The current "free connection" promotion has been extended for another two months. Don't expect to see any price drop before then.

It'd be nice to think that IBB will be aggressively rolling out wireless broadband at €30/month by then, setting a benchmark for other offerings, but so far, there hasn't been a peep from them about when we can expect to see anything new.

GreeBo

Yeah, IBB have been far too quiet in my opinion.

If they even gave an idea of what they are planning, that might make a few people, like myself, hold off getting DSL or whatever from somewhere else.

Ahwell, tis too much to hope for methinks.

Be interesting to see what Eircom come up with in Feb though, if they can get a €30-€35 offer in it will heat up things, FINALLY!

Moriarty

Eircom is currently in its yearly negotiations with comreg to determine the wholesale prices for the following year. The new prices are due to come in to effect on March/April1st (cant remember which), but no ones sure what they will be yet. Its expected there will be some reductions.

OfflerCrocGod

I wish the cap eliminated, that's it, a speed increase (Up or Down) or a price drop is pointless if within TWO (count it) days I have smashed my 8GB cap :mad: and end up with no internet connection for the rest of the month:mad: :mad:.

Placebo

esat, have extended their offer to 20th Feb !
IBB is only in a certain select areas, no dublin 15 !

The Clown Man

Originally posted by OfflerCrocGod
I wish the cap eliminated, that's it, a speed increase (Up or Down) or a price drop is pointless if within TWO (count it) days I have smashed my 8GB cap :mad: and end up with no internet connection for the rest of the month:mad: :mad:.

OK I counldn't download that in a mad fit.

I am OK with 6 GB per month and that is more than anyone needs imo. Seriously, take up socialising or something... I hear model airplane building can be time consuming...

Moriarty

Originally posted by The Clown Man
OK I counldn't download that in a mad fit.

I am OK with 6 GB per month and that is more than anyone needs imo. Seriously, take up socialising or something... I hear model airplane building can be time consuming...

The important words there are 'imo'. Everyone uses the internet for different things and just because something suits you doesnt mean it will suit everyone, or even the majority of people. There are numerous legal reasons for using high levels of bandwidth, just as there are numerous illegal reasons. Last time i checked though, ISPs werent in the business of policing the countrys population. Caps have been imposed on most dsl services in ireland for one reason only; less overheads for the ISP (and eircom), increased price-gouging of the consumer.

MarkR

Feck it, I don't think I want to wait that long! Was thinking if I sart doing some nixers I can manage an extra 47.50 a month. Actually, make that 37.51 as I'm already forking out for dialup that I can dump.... Hmmm

Ripwave

Originally posted by Placebo
IBB is only in a certain select areas, no dublin 15 !

You haven't been paying attention, have you?

Ripwave

Originally posted by Moriarty
Caps have been imposed on most dsl services in ireland for one reason only; less overheads for the ISP

Exactly - if OfflerCrocGod or anyone else wants to use 10 times as much bandwidth as me, he can pay for it - if he chooses not to pay for it, he can do without.

Moriarty

Originally posted by Ripwave
Exactly - if OfflerCrocGod or anyone else wants to use 10 times as much bandwidth as me, he can pay for it - if he chooses not to pay for it, he can do without.

.. which is fair enough if the price charged for extra useage is reasonable. It should not be something isps or eircom wholesale (if you like to fool yourself into thinking that theres any seperation) make any sort of a profit on. Thats the difference between a fair and equitable service based on caps and the current regieme here in ireland that heavily penalises anyone that uses anything over the sparse monthly provision included in the package.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Moriarty
.. which is fair enough if the price charged for extra useage is reasonable. It should not be something isps or eircom wholesale make any sort of a profit on.

Okay, so they're not supposed to make any profit on it (according to Moriarty). That lets ESAT off the hook then, doesn't it, as they aren't charging for going over the cap, so they obviously aren't making any profit on it. And, so far as anyone has been able to ascertain, UTV aren't making any profit on it either.

Some people want to have their cake and eat it too.

BigEejit

The only reasons to have a cap is to gouge the punters for as much money as possible and possibly to stop the punters from bringing the (crap) network to its knees ....
Loads of other countries have no caps and they have roughly the same national connectivity as we do ... our ISP's dont get charged much more for bandwidth than theirs, its just that they have competition and we dont .. so our main ISP gouges us ..
The second there is some credible alternative that has punters signing up by the thousands you'll see €ircon changing their prices to not quite match (they assume that people wont bother changing ISP if there is less than a certain amount between them (€5?, €10?)) ... roll on wireless broadband that doesn't have pricey set up costs!! ... oh I'll be dancing in the street when I get that dam phone line disconnected:D

Moriarty

Originally posted by Ripwave
Okay, so they're not supposed to make any profit on it (according to Moriarty). That lets ESAT off the hook then, doesn't it

No it doesnt, theyre supplying a crippled service. I wasnt writing an air-tight AUP in my last post in case that slipped past you, i was responding to a specific point.

Originally posted by Ripwave
as they aren't charging for going over the cap, so they obviously aren't making any profit on it. And, so far as anyone has been able to ascertain, UTV aren't making any profit on it either.

Esat are providing a crippled, shoddy service. Instead of investing in their infrastructure and pressuring eircom to do the same they are happy to provide a service up until the point that it suits them and not an inch further.

Esat have presumeably gone the way of killing peoples connections rather than billing for excess (which is the route eircom seem to have gone, a handful of times) because their legendry billing department is simply too incompetent to create a system to implement it effectively. What are the chances of them being able to correctly bill people for bandwidth used when they cant even identify who their customers are?

Having your water disconnected if you shower more than once a day isnt tollerated, instead you pay - an equitable amount - for what you use. Why exactly should it be any different for bandwidth over adsl?

Originally posted by Ripwave
Some people want to have their cake and eat it too.

It seems some people seem to be habitual apologists for incompetent, anti-competitive and consumer-hostile companys.

BigEejit

Originally posted by Moriarty
It seems some people seem to be habitual apologists for incompetent, anti-competitive and consumer-hostile companys.

Nail. Head.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Moriarty
It seems some people seem to be habitual apologists for incompetent, anti-competitive and consumer-hostile companys.

It seems some people are never happy unless they have something to moan about.

Did you ever wonder why there are very few entrpreners out there catering to the demand that you seem to think exists?

Here's a hint - business people don't want customers like you. You're not worth the trouble.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Moriarty
No it doesnt, theyre supplying a crippled service.

They're providing the only service they can - it obviously passed you by, but IOL are reselling oreillycoms package, and oreillycom set the parameters, including the contention ratio, not ESAT.

Esat are providing a crippled, shoddy service. Instead of investing in their infrastructure and pressuring eircom to do the same they are happy to provide a service up until the point that it suits them and not an inch further.

ESAT are competing against a company that owns an infrastructure that you and I, and our parents, have been paying for for the last 50 years. They've invested in infrastructure wherever they have a hope of making an economic return on that investment, but given the power of "inertial marketing" that oreillycom obviously has, even the incompetent gob****es in ESAT can recognize that some infrastructure will never pay for itself.

Esat have presumeably gone the way of killing peoples connections rather than billing for excess (which is the route eircom seem to have gone, a handful of times)

Can you point to a single post on boards from someone who has been billed for bandwidth overuse by oreillycom?

because their legendry billing department is simply too incompetent to create a system to implement it effectively. What are the chances of them being able to correctly bill people for bandwidth used when they cant even identify who their customers are?

Right - as if you wouldn't be moaning just as loudly if they were indeed billing people rather than cutting them off.

Having your water disconnected if you shower more than once a day isnt tollerated, instead you pay - an equitable amount - for what you use. Why exactly should it be any different for bandwidth over adsl?

Oh, fer crying out loud, what a stupid, childish, pathetic argument. Broadband is a luxury. Even in countries where broadband is cheap and easily available, the majority of people don't have it or want it. Even in that mecca of cheap broadband, Japan, they have to put people on street corners practically mugging people to get them to sign up for it.

LFCFan

Originally posted by Ripwave
Broadband is a luxury

It may be a luxery for some but it's essential for a lot of people too. How many people have crippling dialup bills or are paying through the roof for a leased line? For these people who need internet access I don't think you can call broadband a luxery. Telephones were seen as a luxery when they first arrived. As was the TV etc etc. All new technologies start off as a luxery but soon become a neccesity and if Ireland want to remain competitive then people, like you, will have to quit seeing broadband as a luxery and see it as an essential tool in furthering Ireland's ability to attract foreign investment.

BKtje

It IS a luxury to most apart from those few who work from home.
You cant read your news from the local newspaper/tv, can't book your flights through a travel agent? cant get ur porn from magazines? etc etc

Internet makes things easier to do than a lot of other ways but it is no means an essential service like water

LFCFan

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
It IS a luxury to most apart from those few who work from home.
You cant read your news from the local newspaper/tv, can't book your flights through a travel agent? cant get ur porn from magazines? etc etc

Internet makes things easier to do than a lot of other ways but it is no means an essential service like water

when water started to get pumped to houses there were probably people saying, sure can't you get your water from a well. And when the telephone came in people were probably saying, sure can't you write to your friends, what do you want a phone for. The fact that you even mentioned porn means you have to same attitude to the internet that too many people have and is one of the main reasons the internet hasn't blossomed like it should have.

OfflerCrocGod

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
It IS a luxury to most apart from those few who work from home.
You cant read your news from the local newspaper/tv, can't book your flights through a travel agent? cant get ur porn from magazines? etc etc

Internet makes things easier to do than a lot of other ways but it is no means an essential service like water

Your RIGHT lets dump the Internet and Mobiles and Land Lines and TV and running water all of them they are nothing but luxuries - no doubt the Irish economy will fly along because we will be SO FAR ahead of the rest of the world - we will be behind even f8cking Mali; you giant walking lampost get a clue we need to be competitive and that means constant innovation and improvement!.

If you think the Internet is not important or usefull in todays world you are naive beyond words.

P3nfold

Broadband is a luxury? This is not 1997.

Broadband is a "standard" in nearly every country bar Ireland. I will outline why.

1. Websites have far more graphics
2. The internet as of the past few years has become more widespread with access to more media options which far exceed the limit of a 56k connection
3. Alot more people require to be able to host their own services/servers/daemons rather than fork out high hosting costs. Since broadband is a "standard", it provides more options to people who never had them before

If you want to use your lynx web browser and not take full advantage of the ability to download mass amounts of software and media, then god bless your soul.

Moriarty

Originally posted by Ripwave
It seems some people are never happy unless they have something to moan about.

On the contrary, id truely be much happier if there was no need for me to complain. Unfortunately, there is.

Originally posted by Ripwave
Did you ever wonder why there are very few entrpreners out there catering to the demand that you seem to think exists?

Two points.

1.) There are many, many ISPs in the UK all offering completely uncapped services over both adsl and cable with no hidden glass ceilings. If its possible to do it in the UK its possible to do it here, which leads on to point two..

2.) The main reason this isnt the case in Ireland is the complete strangehold of the market and infrastructure by a duopoly who are more than happy to keep the status quo.

In effect youre simply wrong when you say there are few entreprenuers that have thought about offering services like this in Ireland, its just simply impossible in the current situation due to eircoms blocking tactics, complicity by esat and past government policy.

Originally posted by Ripwave
Here's a hint - business people don't want customers like you. You're not worth the trouble.

First of all, you have no idea what my useage is like so thats a bit rich. Secondly, "heavy users" - who i presume you are referring to - are welcomed by all major ISPs in the UK.

Originally posted by Ripwave
They're providing the only service they can - it obviously passed you by, but IOL are reselling oreillycoms package, and oreillycom set the parameters, including the contention ratio, not ESAT.

You missed the point. Eircom.net, UTV and netsource can all let people use more bandwidth (on the exact same service) without disconnecting them. Funny that, isnt it?

This is neither here nor there in either case, as the underlying system for offering adsl is flawed here in Ireland. Esat have been perfectly happy with it however. Again.. odd, isnt it? Are you begining to see a patern here?

Originally posted by Ripwave
ESAT are competing against a company that owns an infrastructure that you and I, and our parents, have been paying for for the last 50 years. They've invested in infrastructure wherever they have a hope of making an economic return on that investment, but given the power of "inertial marketing" that oreillycom obviously has, even the incompetent gob****es in ESAT can recognize that some infrastructure will never pay for itself.

Sure why dont we just shut up shop and go home. Its clearly a lost cause. Sure BT are such a small company they couldnt really afford to compete, unlike UTV. Er, hang on.. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Ripwave
Can you point to a single post on boards from someone who has been billed for bandwidth overuse by oreillycom?

...

Originally posted by Ripwave
Right - as if you wouldn't be moaning just as loudly if they were indeed billing people rather than cutting them off.

Youre catching on. Cutting people off is not on. Neither is the farce of charging 3c/mb. Do i have to be for one or the other of those options before youll understand my position?

Originally posted by Ripwave
Oh, fer crying out loud, what a stupid, childish, pathetic argument. Broadband is a luxury. Even in countries where broadband is cheap and easily available, the majority of people don't have it or want it. Even in that mecca of cheap broadband, Japan, they have to put people on street corners practically mugging people to get them to sign up for it.

Seemingly you forgot to read what i typed. Get over yourself.

I never said here that broadband is a necessity. I never said here that broadband should be universally supplied. The example i gave is how the water service is supplied - how you first get connected to the water supply or if you even want a water supply is totally irrelevant to the point.

You use as much water as you want. No matter how much water you use, it will continue to flow through your taps at the same pressure. You pay an equitable amount to the water company each month for the water you have used. The water company will not cut you off if youre a family of fifteen, they will simply charge you for the increased water that you use. The same example holds true for bandwidth.

Where does your problem lie with the solution of letting people use however much bandwidth they want while paying an equitable amount for it?

MarkR

So.... No news then.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Moriarty
Where does your problem lie with the solution of letting people use however much bandwidth they want while paying an equitable amount for it?

Not much point answering this drivel point by point, but maybe you can do a little simple arithmetic, and tell us all about your plan for delivering 8G of data to each user over a 512k link with a contention ratio of 48:1?

512kb*60*60*24*30 / 48 comes to a little under 3.5GB per person per month.

You're getting your 8G because the vast majority of users don't use more than 1 or 2 G, so there's a surplus available. If 8G isn't enough for you, you're welcome to pay for one of the alternatives.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Moriarty
...

Read it again, Moriarty - that's a thread about someone who used 72G on a 6G service, and would have had to pay €1877 if oreilyycom had billed him. Did you ever see a post from him 2 months later when the bill would have arrived, claiming that he had been billed? No?

Funny, that, isn't it?

OfflerCrocGod

Originally posted by Ripwave
Not much point answering this drivel point by point, but maybe you can do a little simple arithmetic, and tell us all about your plan for delivering 8G of data to each user over a 512k link with a contention ratio of 48:1?

512kb*60*60*24*30 / 48 comes to a little under 3.5GB per person per month.

You're getting your 8G because the vast majority of users don't use more than 1 or 2 G, so there's a surplus available. If 8G isn't enough for you, you're welcome to pay for one of the alternatives.

Simple solution really they improve the Network in it's present state it's just not usable; it's a crippled service they are offering - Ireland better wake up and smell the dust on which we are choking the rest of the world is leaving us behind.

I can't believe you are actually defending these Monopoly Pigs

Moriarty

Originally posted by Ripwave
tell us all about your plan for delivering 8G of data to each user over a 512k link with a contention ratio of 48:1?

Eircom improve their infrastructure, so that they can actually offer adsl services on a par with the rest of the western world. I dont appreciate your tone either.

Originally posted by Ripwave
If 8G isn't enough for you, you're welcome to pay for one of the alternatives.

</apoligist>

OfflerCrocGod

Originally posted by Ripwave
Read it again, Moriarty - that's a thread about someone who used 72G on a 6G service, and would have had to pay €1877 if oreilyycom had billed him. Did you ever see a post from him 2 months later when the bill would have arrived, claiming that he had been billed? No?

Funny, that, isn't it?

Ye real funny cause according to your figures 20 ppl were screwed out of BB by that one guy but do you know what! - 20 ppl WERE NOT screwed out of there net connection by that guy. The capacity was there to support him why is it not there now!. You argument is specious you believe what is told to you by the Eircon/ESAT; the capacity is there they are just not letting us have it cause it's easier for them that way:mad:.

OfflerCrocGod

By the way I believe that we are getting our net from more then a single 512Kb link.