BA 223 - What the F*ck is going on?

mike65

This from www.bbc.co.uk

Security fears ground BA flight

The BA flight has been under the spotlight for three days
British Airways has cancelled a flight to Washington for the second day running, amid fears of a terror attack.

The decision to ground flight BA223 was "due to security reasons" and followed government advice, the airline said.

Passengers had been checking in for their trips to the US capital when BA said the plane would not be taking off.

Following intelligence from the US the same flight had been grounded on Thursday, and on New Year's Eve it was given an escort by fighter planes.

Last minute

Asked what kind of security alert led to the 1505 GMT flight being cancelled, BA said: "It is that particular flight that there are issues with, not the passengers."

William Mallett, 38, said he was "nervous" despite extra security

A spokesman told BBC News Online on Friday that the flight was cancelled "following the latest advice from the UK Government received this afternoon".

BA hoped to offer the 300 passengers alternative flights - but some were left feeling uneasy.

Among them, Deepa Menon, 28, a law student from Washington DC, said: "I am irritated.

"I am sure there are reasons - but I do wish we had known what was going on earlier."

And Svenja Steinfelder, 29, a German research fellow studying in Washington, said the scares had left her feeling "very nervous" about flying.

'Specific information'

Defence analyst Paul Beaver said the alert was based on "very high grade intelligence" and suggested some kind of attack was being planned.


Flights hit by security fears

Wednesday - BA flight 223 shadowed by fighter jets, plane searched and passengers questioned

Thursday - BA flight 223 from London to Washington cancelled

Friday - BA flight 223 from London to Washington cancelled

He said it was possible al-Qaeda or a sympathetic group based in Europe planned to hijack the plane and crash it into a building in the US or blow it up.

BBC correspondent Andy Tighe said BA bosses had been in meetings since 0900 GMT, so the late cancellation suggested "there was something happening at the last minute".

On New Year's Eve the same flight was escorted in to Washington by fighter jets, with officials searching the plane and questioning passengers for hours.

It was not allowed to fly at all on Thursday and whether or not the flight will also be cancelled on Saturday remains unclear.

Security threats

The US recently tightened security after intelligence warnings led its terror alert status to be raised to orange - the second highest level available.

Okay can anyone enlighten this viewer as to what the hell is going on?

How can one specific aircraft be considered a
security thread on 3 seperate occasions?

Is there a line of al-queada terrorists waiting to check-in at Heathrow? Is the plane itself compromised by some previous hidden, but suspected, action?

Or more likely, has the US security apparatus gone totally power mad??

Mike.

Walter Ego

Link this with the USA's recent BSE situation and watch America dip below the horizon as a tourist destination this year. I would expect a knock effect to tourism by Americans to Europe as they won't want to be shot down by their own fighters on the way back.

Frank Grimes

I've heard somewhere (don't have any links) that "chatter" or whatever they call it was picked up mentioning that flight number.
So I guess they've nothing to go on other than that flight number, so they're taking no chances at all.

mr_angry

If I had a ticket that said "BA223" at the moment, I would be most definitely chucking it in the bin!

dod

Fair enough, you don't expect them to tell us everything they know under the circumstances, but they must have some fairly specific information on an individual or group of individuals planning to take this flight that will somehow endanger the flight, the passengers, or a specific target.

If I was the pilot, I would resign immediately. Jesus, why would you fly a plane that you've practically been told has been a target for being taken out, and even if there were no on-board threats, you've got trigger happy American fighter pilots escorting you who'll take you out of the sky at the slightest suggestion of a problem?

Whether there is a specific threat or not, it's the chaos that the paranoia causes that creates the difficulties/ tensions/ disruptions etc. that the would-be terrorists want. And this sort of tension cannot be sustained indefinitely - the travelling public just won't stand for it.

Interesting to see how this whole thing pans out, or whether it will just be quietly swept under the carpet with a 'No Comment' from Jack Straw or something.


(below from rte.ie/news)

ritish Airways has cancelled its afternoon flight from London to Washington for a second consecutive day after receiving what has been described as 'security advice' from the British government.

The cancellation announcement for flight BA 223 was made as passengers for the flight were checking in at Heathrow Airport.

The plane had been due to leave at 3.05pm, but BA announced it had been cancelled at 1.15pm - less than two hours before take off.

Yesterday's flight BA223 was also cancelled several hours before it was scheduled to depart after BA received security advice from the Government.

On New Year's Eve, the same flight had been kept on the runway for three hours after landing at Washington Dulles International Airport to allow security officials to board the plane and question passengers.

The Boeing 747 was escorted into Dulles by two F-16 fighter jets.

An Aeromexico flight from Mexico City to Los Angeles was also cancelled after US authorities refused to allow it to land.

Flight 490 was cancelled after Homeland Security officials said they were concerned it might be a safety risk, according to a spokesman for Mexico's President Vicente Fox.

dahamsta

Ah well, at least the UK Government will find it easier to justify the sky marshals the US Government is demanding now, eh?

Who was it tipped BA off again? *koff*

adam

BuffyBot

I think it's something to so with the flight number rather than passengers. No doubt something has been found out which mentions BA 223 specifically. It will be interesting to see what trhat is, if we ever get to know!

dod

Maybe some clever FBI man has come across a copy of Nostradamus as part of an "intelligence" gathering operation.

"The day birds offer themselves up to the heavens...and the bird shall be called BA223 carrying shoppers on the way to the New Year sales..." yadda yadda yadda.

Christ, I hope this sort of thing isn't the sort of "chatter" they monitor.

gandalf

Another theory is these flights are being cancelled because the US is demanding that "Sky Marshalls" have to be deployed on them and the pilots are refusing (quite rightly in my opinion) to fly with gun(s) on board.

All I feel is that this is the beginning of the scare mongering from the Bush camp with the upcoming Elections this year. Nothing better than a scared electorate to re-elect a lame duck president and his cronies.

Gandalf.

Lennoxschips

Link this with the USA's recent BSE situation and watch America dip below the horizon as a tourist destination this year

I dunno, with every Euro buying you $1.25 at the moment I have a feeling there will be quite a higher than average number of European tourists visiting the US this year.

dahamsta

Heh, I'm on gandalf's ignore list.

gandalf

LOL A you'd never be on my ignore list. Your posts, emm how do I say this, ah yes are too "entertaining" .

I just expanded on your point (or something!).

Gandalf.

Exit

BA263 to Riyadh tomorrow cancelled also. No other news yet.

dahamsta

Originally posted by gandalf
LOL A you'd never be on my ignore list. Your posts, emm how do I say this, ah yes are too "entertaining"

It's a Cork thing.

dahamsta

All over the shop...

Passenger with penknives held on jet
02/01/2004 - 5:28:08 pm

Spanish police boarded a plane bound for England and removed a passenger who was later found to have two penknives in his possession, news reports said today.

The passenger, identified only by his initials EGD, from Chile, was taken of the easyJet plane in Madrid last night after the captain halted takeoff when the passenger started talking aloud about the end of the world, the national news agency Efe said.

[...]

Security scare grounds new flight
British Airways has cancelled a flight to Saudi Arabia hours after grounding a Washington flight amid fears of a terror attack.
Flight BA263 was due to leave for the Saudi capital Riyadh from London at 1330 GMT on Saturday.

The move follows the cancellation of the BA223 flight from Heathrow to Washington for the second day running.

And on Wednesday the same flight was held on the tarmac in the US capital while agents questioned passengers.

BA also said it cancelled a flight to Riyadh on Wednesday, and is reviewing whether to fly on Monday. The return flight on Saturday has also been cancelled.

[...]

My tinfoil hat's going mental here.

adam

SkepticOne

Could be a terror group testing their communications channels for leaks. Pretend to plan an attack and see what happens on the news. Also test the responses of the intelligence services - see if they are behaving in a predictable fashion. At worst, the disruption helps their percieved cause much like the IRA bomb hoaxes in London. For every real bomb there were 10 or more bomb scares.

dahamsta

Originally posted by SkepticOne
Could be a terror group testing their communications channels for leaks.

Could be, could be. Could be hawks doing what Hermann Goering says in my sig too. One's as bad as the other.

adam

kensutz

Apparently on BBC they said that a known american terrorist was due to board the plane and then divert it to Washington into a civilian target. That's all they said so far.

dahamsta

Rare that we hear about domestic terrorists when there's all these non-christians to blame. Must've been a slip up somewhere.

adam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by dahamsta
Could be, could be. Could be hawks doing what Hermann Goering says in my sig too.

I was just suggesting a further possibility. Obviously there are several possible explanations including your's.

Sand

Most likely the flights were cancelled because intelligence indicated that they might be at risk. Better safe than sorry when even the slight possibility off firing flaming death for all on board and probably quite a lot on the ground below has to be factored in. This intelligence could be wrong. That is *always* the case. Its a judgement call which the various security and intelligence forces might possibly be better able to make than the average internet poster. The worst that can occur from being over-protective is a missed flight - the worst that can occur from the opposite " Al-Qaueda?- pffft " mentality is another 9/11. Which of course was a zionist / bush conspiracy if you read reliable sources like standown.net because the security and intelligence forces didnt stop it.

They cant win can they?

mr_angry

The worst that can occur from being over-protective is a missed flight

Only if you discount the damage done to the already-struggling airline industry. I see more US protectionism on the horizon. On another note, I can see every drunken passenger who thinks it would be funny to shout "This is a hijacking" causing havok between now and the end of the decade, particularly if trigger-happy "air-marshalls" are employed.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Sand
They cant win can they?

If there was a genuine terrorist threat and they allowed the flight to proceed then it would be proof that this US so called "war on terror" is rubbish - just a pretext for further hegemony, otherwise surely they would have done something to prevent the very thing they claim to be at war against.

Sand

Only if you discount the damage done to the already-struggling airline industry.

Missed flight vs another 9/11.

What will do more damage to an already struggling airline industry? Bear in mind whats brought about that already struggling industry. Why is corporate profit important compared to even the slight possibility of fiery death for ordinary decent people who happen to be on a flight where the security forces said "Well its *possible* terrorists might attack this flight - but we dont want to cause a scare and hurt BAs bottom line".

On another note, I can see every drunken passenger who thinks it would be funny to shout "This is a hijacking" causing havok between now and the end of the decade, particularly if trigger-happy "air-marshalls" are employed.

If you take into account sky marshals will be armed then Id consider that Darwinism in action and regardless of the legalities, the Sky marshal would be doing humanity a favour by removing the "joker" from the gene pool.

Yeah I know, Im evil to say it. Dont tell me you didnt chuckle when you heard of the guy in the cessna trying his own re-enactment of 9/11. That was Darwinism too.

you've got trigger happy American fighter pilots escorting you who'll take you out of the sky at the slightest suggestion of a problem?

According to the truth at standdown.net theyd probably give you an escort to your target - assuming you were a terrorist pilot of course. Ive never heard of us fighter pilots shooting down a airliner. ( Yes, smartarses, Im aware the U.S. Navy shot down an airliner during the Gulf War )

mike65

Originally posted by mr_angry
On another note, I can see every drunken passenger who thinks it would be funny to shout "This is a hijacking" causing havok between now and the end of the decade, particularly if trigger-happy "air-marshalls" are employed.

In the 70s when "sky-jacking" was an international passtime that sort of thing occassional happened though I dont think anyone actually got shot!

On flight BA223 - word had it the pilots wre not willing to fly with marshalls on board, while another piece in the Sunday Times this morning writes about a full scale
attempt to hi-jack several aircraft inlcuding BA223 and crash them into nuclear power plants on the US east coast.


Mike.

sovtek

I don't have a link but on BBC yesterday they reported that some of the passengers given to British authorities by the American's was a 5 year old kid.
I'm all for being secure but when the people that are supposedly in charge of making that so are such incompetent idiots.........

Originally posted by sovtek

I'm all for being secure but when the people that are supposedly in charge of making that so are such incompetent idiots.........

To be brutally honest with you,errors and ommissions excepted I would prefer that extraordinary measures were being taken as they are to protect the innocent lives of airline passengers against the actions of ruthless terrorists.
It's not as if a five year old potential passenger was interogated for hours in a police cell.
One is better safe than sorry, and in the process the old addage "the man that never made a mistake, never made anything " springs to mind.

dahamsta

Where's your line Man? Would you be happy to live in America right now, where you can be arrested without probable cause and held for an indeterminate time without access to legal representation and your family?

Or in this particular case, are you happy for these events to continue with /no explanation/ from the UK Government as to why the flights were held? Do you like being nannied or would you prefer to make your own decisions?

adam

mr_angry

What will do more damage to an already struggling airline industry? Bear in mind whats brought about that already struggling industry. Why is corporate profit important compared to even the slight possibility of fiery death for ordinary decent people who happen to be on a flight where the security forces said "Well its *possible* terrorists might attack this flight - but we dont want to cause a scare and hurt BAs bottom line".

Don't get me wrong - another 9/11 would be far worse. I was just pointing out that this is not just a case of missed flights as far as the airline industry is concerned - its nearly the death knell for a lot of companies.

The Muppet

I would imagine that americans like the rest of us would like to be able to go about their normal business without being nannied. Unfoutunately Since 9/11 that is no longer possible. I know which I would choose given the choice between missing a flight and being used as a Human bomb . How many of the passenger on the planes that were crashed on 9/11 do you think would still have flown if the knew what was going to happen?

Where's your line Man? Would you be happy to live in America right now, where you can be arrested without probable cause and held for an indeterminate time without access to legal representation and your family?

well I'd trust the professionals to be looking after security and blame the terrorists for taking away some of my freedoms as a price for my safety-yes

Would you have relaxed restrictions on where you could park in town centres in NI at the height of the troubles there for instance when the IRA was blowing them up or would you have taken the view "ah shur what the heck, lets sit back relax and let the terrorists carry on they'll soon get fed up...??"