The Mega **Management Company** thread

redspider

We have changed managing agents and now the Residents (ie: the members of the management company) run the place. The result is that more things get done and its cheaper, so I would advise any complex to do the same, but thats if they have enough willing members.

Victor wrote:

Realise that you must keep paying, ther ewere cases recently, I think it was in Fingal where the decision was that you must continue to pay the fees.

We have a problem from the other way around. We have a Member who is not playing ball and owes fees. Do you have a reference to this court case and its judgement or some other authority decision, as it would be useful to put in front of our non-paying member?

I realise that the Member in question is breaking their legal agreement, but we are reluctant to take one of our own Members to court, which apart from anything else would eat lots of time and probably funds. Can a court award us costs or can this be put through the small claims court?

Thanks,

redspider

RainyDay

redspider wrote:

Can a court award us costs or can this be put through the small claims court?

This is definitely not one for the small claims court, as they only accept cases from consumers against businesses (not the other way round).

Victor

redspider wrote:

We have a problem from the other way around. We have a Member who is not playing ball and owes fees. Do you have a reference to this court case and its judgement or some other authority decision, as it would be useful to put in front of our non-paying member?

I don't. It was reported in the media, but I imagine it was District or Circuit Court and there may not be a full judgement available publicly. I suspect it was under an affordable housing scheme. [edit] http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054898682&highlight=court

I realise that the Member in question is breaking their legal agreement, but we are reluctant to take one of our own Members to court, which apart from anything else would eat lots of time and probably funds. Can a court award us costs or can this be put through the small claims court?

Yes the court would make an award for costs, usually in favour of whoever wins the case.

Talk to a solicitor first, there may be other ways.

redspider

Victor wrote:

It was reported in the media, but I imagine it was District or Circuit Court and there may not be a full judgement available publicly. I suspect it was under an affordable housing scheme. [edit] http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054898682&highlight=court

Talk to a solicitor first, there may be other ways.

Thanks Victor. We will probably send them a letter referring to this case, etc, as a strong hint that its time to pay up. Thanks for that link.

Then we may approach a solicitor for their ways, which I would imagine would start with the 'threatening solicitors letter'.

By the way, to those posters that suggested its an elecion issue, I do believe that all these problems with management companies are indeed important. What we need to do as Members of Management Companies is to self-organise. Would anyone be willing to start something on a website so that members can share problems and solutions, and also do so in a protected way, username/password? Then encourage all Members to register and use the free site.

A bit like Ireland Offline except a lobby group for getting these issues dealt with. There are currently just too many management agents, developers, etc, giving Owners a hard time, or is this a matter for the Consumer Association, etc ...... the politicians wnt do anything unless.

An alternative is someone volunteers to run as an independent on this 'issue' in the next general election or a county council election?

redspider

darrenzz

cardigan wrote:

Why not register an opressed shareholders action with the companies registration board. Do not include a management agent on the board again, employ them and pay them by the month, this advice comes from a management agent.:eek:

darrenzz

bmm wrote:

I forgot to ask does anyone have the names of good property managers in Dublin? I'm talking about a company that actually give a ****. A company that after ringing them 5 times they actually do something. I wouldn't mind paying €1500 if it was used constructively and the complex was well managed.

It's quiet unbelieveable how some property managers neglect their properties. Most of them would have you believe that gurriers and drug addicts roam the complexes day and night to save them having to do anything. KPM have to be the worst. They never never return phone calls, they see every apartment owner as a pest. I contacted them on 8 occasions over a 4 week period as carpet was falling off the stairs, they did nothing so I just gave up. Someone will fall down the stairs and put a big claim in that will hike up our fees again. Do you think KPM care? They couldn't give a ****...

Has anybody successfully switched property managers whilst the developer still ruled the common areas? If so how did you manage it? Did you have to get the support of the directors/developers before anything could be done?

Question are any of the residents on the management board, as I beleive is required.

MortgageBrbr

Has anybody successfully switched property managers whilst the developer still ruled the common areas? If so how did you manage it? Did you have to get the support of the directors/developers before anything could be done?

Good point..does anyone have any insight into this?

bachelor

Bachelors Walk Apartments at an AGM removed the original diectors (builder & his solicitors) and replaced them with owners. The Managing agent was replaced, resulting in a 30% reduction in service charges. The complex is well run and managed by an agent who reports directly to an active board. The only way to avoid being ripped off is to get involved and get a good solicitor on side.

mz21

I own an apartment in the complex Temple Place, Hill Street, Dublin and I received a letter from the solicitors of the managing agents, Mcdonald and Company saying that "despite several demands for payment" of service charge that the amount of 1260.00 remain outstanding and if a cheque in the sum of 1314.45 (being arrears of srvice charge plus legal costs for writing this letter) is not made within 7 days, proceedings will be issued against me.

Well for a start I had not received a single "demand" for payment because Mcdonald and Company got every line of my address wrong even my house number. I would not have received the solicitors letter if it wasn't for my postman because the letter was returned to him.

When I rang Mcdonald and Company they were completely disinterested in what I had to say stating that they only took over in May and it was the address that they had from the previous managing agent (which I think was R.F. Property Management). Therefore I still have to pay 1314.45 instead of 1260 even though I didn't purposely try to avoid paying any service charge. I find this completely ludricous so is there anything I can do?

Victor

Start by paying the 1260.

mz21

Won't Mcdonald and company then get their lawyers onto me again for not paying the full amount? When I spoke to them they just kept threatning me with
further proceedings.

mel123

I dont think they will bother for the extra few quid, it wouldnt be worth their while to persue it. If you still have the original letter with the wrong address on it then you have a case if anything does come of it.

mz21

I don't really care about paying the extra 50 euros bit it was just the manner I was treated by Mr. Tim Macdonald. He just didn't seem to give a damn at all. I am a doctor and if I ever get the opportunity to treat him then I will make sure that he goes through as much pain as possible.

Victor

Then I don't think you have any place on this board. Banned.

ciaran76

Is there any chance of getting a poll with a list of agents and seeing what people think of them similar to other polls like the Broadband and provider one ?

dandelion

Generally the majority of owners in any complex want to avoid hassle, so they would rather pay a fee than volunteer to stand on a board of a management company.

If any mistakes are made in the setup and running of the company, of if you simply cannot get enough owners to get involved, then there is a chance that future sales could be hampered.

We are trying to sell an apartment in a complex where the owners fired the management company for all the usual reasons. They elected to run it themselves. They were unable to get proper indemnity insurance ( dont know why) and a claim has been made jointly against the company and the residents for a loss incurred by an adjoining householder who says the builder stole some of his garden.

All the owners have unlimited liability on the claim whihc may end up in the High Court.........

bmm

bachelor wrote:

Bachelors Walk Apartments at an AGM removed the original diectors (builder & his solicitors) and replaced them with owners. The Managing agent was replaced, resulting in a 30% reduction in service charges. The complex is well run and managed by an agent who reports directly to an active board. The only way to avoid being ripped off is to get involved and get a good solicitor on side.

Could you give us the name of your solicitor bacherlor? We have been trying to remove our management company and builder for a decade! Mostly landlords owned apartments so nobody ever shows up at the AGM and the managemet company won't give us a list of the owners so we can't contact the landlords to tell them our plan. Very frustrating :mad: Daningher/Zoe/Liam Carroll and KPM manangers are the culprits. Sound familiar? Our gates have been broken for 3 months despite informing KPM of it constantly. KPM just don't give a damn:mad:

bachelor

The new board (of owners) of Bachelors Walk Management engaged Eugene F Collins to advise on defending against the attempts of the Builder/managing agent to remove the new board. The managing agent claimed that this was against the wishes and financial interests of the membership and organised an EGM to remove the new board. This failed as it was illegal.The original signatories to the memorandum of association (ie the builder & his associates) threatened to use their 100 votes each to remove the new board at the next EGM/AGM.
As it happens the builder had prepared 2 sets of Articles/memorandum, one was registered with the CRO, the other given to members. The CRO copy omitted all mention of the signatories 100 votes!
Bottom line is you need a good solicitor to pursue the members interest against more powerful vested interests. However, this will be used against you and unless you control the board you could end up getting nowhere and paying the solicitor personally.

Murty

Hi we rented off them MTS property Management in Botanic Villas Glasnevin - a complete disaster from start to finish – didn’t get keys the night when we were suppose to move after me ringing and e-mailing confirming a time to meet to get the keys -the excuse they forgot to collect it from the lock smiths. We had to stay in a hotel across the Rd the Addison Lodge; we paid for the night and got the money of MTS the next day (my boyfriend had to take a day off work in order to do this) I felt it was a false property management crowd, they took the desposit no problem.

They promised the apartment would be freshly painted before we moved in, this of course failed to happen. When we eventually got the keys there was dampness there, you could smell it in the air, we put it down to the apartment being vacant for a while - clothes got destroyed we got compensated for 100Euros after about 20 to 30 phone calls or more and warning them we would call threshold etc and the smell of dampness on the clothes was unreal, we had to throw bed clothes leather belts etc as gone blue colour with the dampness.

The couple had a shower upstairs we had one in our bedroom, the list is endless, rented before and never had as many problems as this before. I didn’t like the set up and never signed a lease as MTS sounded like a gang of cowboys. I asked for the landlord’s details they refused to give it to us giving excuses, they need to ask his permission 1st etc.

To cut a long story short was complaining on the phone to MTS to get the base of the bed fixed and there were bed bugs which bit me alive, they came back saying rudely there is a rent increase and we had to sign a year’s lease. I told them we bought property and wouldn’t be in a position to sign a lease.
I said if they fixed X Y and Z I will pay but they gave us 42 days notice to move out, so we didn’t pay out last months rent and moved as I know we would have problems getting the deposit. The excuse was the landlord wanted it for his own dwelling, but I asked for his details and he is out of the country, so I said to the so called manager ‘how can he use it when he is out of the country’ - I spotted the advertisement in daft 200Euros more that we were paying a month, I showed her a print out of the add in daft she said she knew nothing off it.

I wouldn’t recommend MTS to anyone and can’t understand how the company are not closed down. It’s a living disgrace, rang Threshold and got nowhere, who put on to another crowd which I feel is a waste of time because MTS are complete liars. Wonder does the landlord know what he is paying to run his property or is he or she too rich to care, BTW never met the landlord

The list of problems is endless we bought our place after that hell MTS put us through. Don’t rent of MTS for your own sanity, life is too short

Sztraik

My old story with MTS ended with me going to a solicitor. When he called them they pretended we never existed and were rude with him, so he happily wrote them a letter and they called me minutes after receiving it all scared, apologising. I got my money back the same day. They also invented loads of landlord's excuses with me back then and i know of other problems they cause in a building they manage in Upper Gardiner Street. They're a complete SCAM! Avoid MTS property management!

Murty

Unreal - I'm not surprised they pretended you never existed; they are COWBOYS after all – so mentally frustrating you had to go to the time, cost and effort of seeking legal rights to basically get back in which you are legally right to.
MTS were probably hoping you would forget (hardly unlikely) so they could steal it from you. I thought it was just us who were unlucky but we are not the only ones apparently. There was a girl across from our old apartment of whom like you gave the correct notice terms in writing etc - she had a lot of hassle in getting her deposit back she had to wait weeks also, the poor girl nearly had a nervous breakdown, she left a note in our door to warn us. It’s your money, not theirs- awful what MTS put out people through, not nice people to deal with and the manger is a bare faced liar and very difficult, different staff every couple of weeks unreal.
But we don’t know who owns the property every excuse was giving under the sun. (He’s out of the country; they can’t give us his/her information without asking them 1st, would e-mail to me- never got it after 100’s of mails and phone calls) I don’t care if the landlord is in prison but I wanted to know, we as tenants have right to know. We were good tenants always paid our rent on time, the place was cleaner than we received it they got work and previous landlord references off us no hesitation and that’s the thanks you get, and sure MTS don’t care. They got the full deposit on the day they asked for it but it’s unfair in getting it back.

We lost a lot of clothes and personal items due to the dampness in the apartment which was mentioned 1,000 if times to MTS - which I am annoyed and I hope our health will be good as breathing in that, damp air. Thank God we didn’t pay the last months rent as we for sure would be taking a leaf from your book in seeking it back– it’s less hassle in buying that renting – when I think of them I get angry – I am surprised they are managing so many places around Dublin and they get away with it. I was going to write an article to the local paper on them to basically warn other poor unfortunate honest people who they try to get fools off.
AVOID MTS as they are COWBOYS

Victor

Can I suggest you contact www.prtb.ie ?

Murty

Thanks for this –

We got the forms from PRTB and have them filled in – there is a little fee of 25Euros for administration fee’s which I have no problem in paying

I am beginning to wonder are we wasting our time and energy in bringing MTS property management to the small claims court as they are liars and feel are we bringing more stress on ourselves.
But as honest people I feel they have won if we don't - got away with treating people like dirt.

Ali100

Hello BMM, I cant believe that KPM are refusing to release the names of the other members in your complex, as a member of the managment company you are entitled to receive and review all company records...It looks as if KPM are still up to their old tricks..I actually got so frustrated with them as agents on Sarsfield Quay apartments, that I set up as a management agent myself......

darrenzz

I am looking for the address for the residents association.
regards
Darren

antoinolachtnai

If you can't get the list of names for a complex, you can serve notice on the Management Company according to the template at

http://www.mcgarrsolicitors.ie/2007/01/04/management-companies-in-apartment-complexes/

If they are dumb enough to fail to respond to this, a solicitor can go into court, get the details and get an order for costs against the directors of the company (could be about five grand). Alternatively, the director of corporate enforcement will take an action.

Antoin.

denise05

I am considering purchasing a property in a nearby privately managed estate and have a problem I hope someone might be able to help me with. Having been advised of 3 different management fees by the EA, I decided to take the initiative and call the management company who would surely be able to provide transparency re charges and basic services rendered?? Apallingly, I have so far gotten yet two more different yearly rates from the management company and an outright refusal to supply a specimen contract for review by prospective buyer. They have said that they do not hold the lease agreement and I need to contact my solicitor re same. Surely this is 'caveat emptor' gone too far? Surely I do not have to wait until signing day and incur legal fees to discover the rates and terms of what may be a 999-year financial committment. Consumer Agency says technically they are right, but in practice most would provide access to specimen T&Cs for the sake of customer service/ courtesy. Feel free to PM me any info and thanks in advance!

antoinolachtnai

I think you mean that you called the management agent, which is different from the management company.

The agreement between you and the management company is the lease. There may also be a member's agreement, but there might not be. I doubt there is much wrong with the lease agreement between you and the management company.

Your solicitor will have all of the information before the sale goes though. He will also find out what the charge is.

In turn, the management company may have some sort of agreement with the management agent. You won't necessarily be able to get access to it.

It is important to figure out who actually controls the management company. You can find this out from the companies office (check filings and memorandum and articles)

fiddlewus

Does anyone know how it is management agents usually form their own fee to be included in the overall service charge - is it as a percentage of expenditure or some other way?

Was thinking of doing a study of service charges for college of apartment complexes in the city centre to assess how and if their are justified. Considering analysing management companies end of year financial statements to:

1. Maybe do a financial statement analysis of several comparable complexes to assess the management companies performance (which involves various operating ratios) as an entity supposedly accountable to its shareholders ie. company members.

2. May have a look at where the biggest expenses go out and try and price these jobs myself, the same way as an agent may offer a tender to a management company, and compare it to actual charges.

3. May just find charges of comparables and assess why some pay more than others and consider if this is justified or just bad management by the company.

Anyone have an suggestions or advice of a better way or how I should go about it - you all seem like a learned lot.

Cheers!

Lucifer

i'm living in a 2 bedroom apartment in Mount Saint Annes in Milltown, our management fee is 2200 yoyos