The Mega **Management Company** thread

How Strange

Miss Fluff wrote: »

Wondering if anyone call tell me whether my flatmate have any rights re a property management company issue. Our landlord got a letter this morning to say from Monday all locks are being taken off the front door to the building and that we all have to use fobs in future. A fob is 45 quid and to me this is a BLATANT racket.

How so? Please explain this blantant racket to the rest of us because its not quite so blatantly obvious to me.

I lose keys quite regularly and now I'm thinking what happens if my flatmate is on holidays and I lose mine on a Saturday for example??Do I have to wait until Monday until the property management company opens to get a new fob and pay for the privilege again?

I would say this is a blatant racket. Try to be abit more responsible and not lose your keys so often. I've managed to hold onto my house keys for almost three years so it's not that difficult.

To say I am seriously p1ssed off is an understatement. Is there any way of objecting to this, or do we have a leg to stand on?

I'd say you are p1ssed off. Losing keys that often must be a right pain. Regarding objecting and legs to stand on; what would be your grounds - 'I can't seem to keep my keys in my pocket/bag so I object to the idea that now I'll have to pay to replace the new fob therefore I'll have to be responsible and take care of my property in future.'

What the MC is doing is now considered best practice as they are ensuring that the apt block will be more secure for ALL residents. Any inconvenience to you is unintentional I'm sure.

connundrum

Victor wrote: »

That would merely add it to the service charge. :rolleyes:

This is a given, as the money would have to come from somewhere. But it would streamline the whole event and would remove the need for tenants to become involved in the situation.

Each landlord's service charge goes up by a nominal amount that year (depending on whether they're getting charged the 'full whack' or not), the apartment is provided with two fobs each and the fobs stay with the apartment. Tenant has to return or replace them before receiving their deposit back on leaving.

The_Conductor

connundrum wrote: »

This is a given, as the money would have to come from somewhere. But it would streamline the whole event and would remove the need for tenants to become involved in the situation.

Each landlord's service charge goes up by a nominal amount that year (depending on whether they're getting charged the 'full whack' or not), the apartment is provided with two fobs each and the fobs stay with the apartment. Tenant has to return or replace them before receiving their deposit back on leaving.

In practice there is a massive problem with tenants loosing/breaking fobs, and in most cases tenants pay a seperate deposit for their fobs. The EUR45 that the OP is being quoted in all fairness is extremely reasonable. Depending on the fob- it may have to be a multiple frequency fob and those can go all the way up to EUR200 a go (depending on the order size). A fob is not like taking charge of the property of the landlord- there is almost an inevitability that they get lost, broken or robbed by family or friends for no good purpose. It makes perfect sense to involve the tenant in having an interest in ensuring their fob doesn't go walkies- then there is a higher chance that they will take care of it.

Also- in a lot of cases- a fob that originally cost EUR 100 to purchase can cost double that to replace (between actually getting the fob and programming it). Its not as simple as ringing the Management Company and having one popped in your letterbox a few hours later (though it should be). You only tend to notice its broken or lost, when you urgently need it.

People tend to take much better care of something when they have a vested interest in making sure its returned to its owner in good condition- as is evidenced from the OPs key making operations.......

trellheim

If you get one free at the start of the lease - you give it back at the end of the lease.

If you have to buy it during the lease, they should buy it back from you at the end of the lease or give you back the deposit on it.

SimpleSam06

I think the OP is upset because she has just been informed she needs to pay a one time fee of €45 in order to ever access her accommodation again. In other words, she pays or she is locked out. I can see how that might be a bit of a shock.

Is this sort of thing not covered by normal management company fees, because it should be (infrastructure improvements)? Trellheim has it right, at the very least they should reimburse her when she moves out.

Kelly O'Malley

There's been very little warning about this too.You're being a bit rough on Miss Fluff aren't you guys?
It's standard practise to provide keys to tenants,whether they're fobs or metal ones.I don't see why Fluff has to pay for the new fob.
Pay to replace it if she loses it sure.
If every absent minded person is 'immature' then I've met an awful lot of little boys in long trousers...

The_Conductor

To be honest- if the management company are only seeking EUR45 per fob, it very much sounds as though they are massively subsidising them.
Its not normal practice to hand out fobs- almost inevitably there is a deposit taken on them (here our deposit is EUR100). The management company have not implemented this new security measure out of the blue, its very expensive to install and maintain. Its highly likely that it would have been discussed and voted on at the AGM- which the OP's landlord should have attended(!!). I appreciate that it is a shock to the OP- but by rights she should take this up with her landlord- as he/she should have known about it. The are expensive little things that are easy to loose or break (I've broken 2 over the past few years), but surely the cost associated with them should encourage you to exercise that extra bit of care with them.

SimpleSam06

smccarrick wrote: »

To be honest- if the management company are only seeking EUR45 per fob, it very much sounds as though they are massively subsidising them.
Its not normal practice to hand out fobs- almost inevitably there is a deposit taken on them (here our deposit is EUR100).

Eh sounds like someone is getting ripped off somewhere, in these days of mass production. For the price of one of these fobs I could buy a new phone, and those babies are basically indestructable. Five of these will buy me a shiny new laptop, four if I wasn't too picky about the specs. Also, the management company should have a few spare fobs in case of loss, and they can then order replacements in their own time if they need them. €200 per fob is grotesque overcharging tbh.

What expenses are involved in maintaining the system?

The_Conductor

Maintenance of the system tends to be pricey (for us anyway) as we have a lot of people vandalising our security trying to get into the complex. A side effect of this is we reprogramme the system and fobs every 6 months or so (we also had a problem with people trying to clone the system). We have 2 seperate systems on different frequencies on the one fob, which increases security, but also makes things more complex. We have a number of commercial premises behind our security (including a bank)- along with 23 domestic residences, which is why we are so careful. For safety reasons we use a combination of fail safe and fail secure systems, magnetic loop detectors, security cameras (the monitoring of which is a pain in the proverbial) etc. Despite all this we have had one car set on fire and one car abondoned in here, along with a stolen hire van from the UK over the past 4 years, but the Gardai keep a good eye out and frequently patrol at night, which seriously discourages antisocial behaviour of any nature. Our systems and security costs are high, but their presence and the effectiveness is reflected in the very competitive block insurance policies we have.

Every complex is different though- some management companies don't focus on security and privacy in the same way that others do. It may result in a lower management charge- but similarly it may result in unauthorised people accessing the complex, antisocial behaviour, vandalism, robberies, harrassment etc- its impossible to tell.

S.

SimpleSam06

Wow, sounds like something more suited to a corporate megaplex from a cyberpunk novel than anywhere in this country. An idea which might save on the maintenance would be to put the receiver behind a perspex shield, much cheaper to replace than the unit itself, and maybe embed it in concrete.

A second idea is to put a keypad on the access areas and issue two four digit codes, one for normal access and one duress code, in case some genius gets the idea of forcing a resident to let them in. That should handle the cloning issue to a great extent.

The fobs are still ridiculously overpriced though.

The_Conductor

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Wow, sounds like something more suited to a corporate megaplex from a cyberpunk novel than anywhere in this country.

God, I wish. Its just the small complex that includes the HSE offices, Ulster Bank, one or two other offices and 2 apartment blocks on main street Lucan village....... Maybe our security company went slightly overboard- but our combined insurance and security is less than it was previously. Contributions from the bank help a lot.

SimpleSam06

smccarrick wrote: »

Maybe our security company went slightly overboard

You should get the receivers to play that soundclip whenever the fobs are used, Sean Connery saying "Welcome to the Rock".

DublinDilbert

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

. An idea which might save on the maintenance would be to put the receiver behind a perspex shield, much cheaper to replace than the unit itself, and maybe embed it in concrete.

The problem is being ireland the security company that maintains the system will never suggest or do this.... as they get a nice charge every few weeks to replace the broken key pad

astrofool

I'm sure there's a business out there for doing third party key fobs, if you look inside, it's just a series of 8 micro switches that are changed to whatever the code is.

However, mass production doesn't always solve these problems, if there is any customisation needed for a complex, then the cost will always be high. €45 is at the cheaper end of the scale.

Out of interest, what is the charge for replacement car keys? Would be similar tech, but should be cheaper due to economies of scale.

beeno67

Kelly O'Malley wrote: »

There's been very little warning about this too.You're being a bit rough on Miss Fluff aren't you guys?
It's standard practise to provide keys to tenants,whether they're fobs or metal ones.I don't see why Fluff has to pay for the new fob.
Pay to replace it if she loses it sure.
If every absent minded person is 'immature' then I've met an awful lot of little boys in long trousers...

I agree completely. Landlord should (and I would guess legally must) pay for the fob unless he has some clause in contract saying tenant must pay which sounds very unlikely. OP rented premesis witha key. She should not bear the cost of any upgrade to the security of the apartment

The_Conductor

beeno67 wrote: »

She should not bear the cost of any upgrade to the security of the apartment

I agree. I do however think that its entirely reasonable that she be asked to pay a reasonable deposit for the fob- say Euro 50 or 60, to be refunded in full on returning the fob (note: this should be seperate from the regular apartment deposit).

beeno67

smccarrick wrote: »

I agree. I do however think that its entirely reasonable that she be asked to pay a reasonable deposit for the fob- say Euro 50 or 60, to be refunded in full on returning the fob (note: this should be seperate from the regular apartment deposit).

No way. She has rented this property with I presume a lease. She has the right to access this property as per the terms of her lease. If the landlord changes the way she gains access then she should not be expected to pay in any way, even by way of a deposit. When the landlord gets new tenants in he can devise any rules he wants and put them in writting. Until then either leave things the way they are or else supply the fob for free.

The_Conductor

If you do that- the fob simply becomes yet another item accounted for in the main deposit. What I was saying is that its far more normal to have a seperate deposit for it.

S./

Paulw

The issue is really between the tenant and the landlord.

The fact that the management company is changing access, and the management agent is issuing fobs is secondary to the issue.

SimpleSam06

DublinDilbert wrote: »

The problem is being ireland the security company that maintains the system will never suggest or do this.... as they get a nice charge every few weeks to replace the broken key pad

Eh they could always use the same keypads as are on the ATMs, all but unbreakable. I'm very surprised vandals can even get to the receiver unit as it stands.

markpb

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Eh they could always use the same keypads as are on the ATMs, all but unbreakable. I'm very surprised vandals can even get to the receiver unit as it stands.

The problem with keypads isn't vandalism, it's people giving the PIN to their friends, their postman, pizza delivery guy, the guy who buzzes saying he's got a delivery for the people next door, etc. Key fobs can't be shared without depriving yourself of access.

Paulw

markpb wrote: »

The problem with keypads isn't vandalism, it's people giving the PIN to their friends, their postman, pizza delivery guy, the guy who buzzes saying he's got a delivery for the people next door, etc. Key fobs can't be shared without depriving yourself of access.

That's always a major issue. We had keypads at our development and within 2 days of changing the codes everyone in the area knew them.

So, in the end, we switched to a fob system, and since then we have had much fewer instances of problems.

Victor

Why not have Apartment number + your own pin number?

The_Conductor

Victor wrote: »

Why not have Apartment number + your own pin number?

Its incredibly difficult and time consuming- there would be people constantly asking to have their numbers changed. The more bog standard units could not handle that sort of system (though a lot of the more recent complex intercom systems can have functionality such as this added on relatively economically- but the ongoing costs associated with the system is quite startling).

SimpleSam06

markpb wrote: »

The problem with keypads isn't vandalism, it's people giving the PIN to their friends, their postman, pizza delivery guy, the guy who buzzes saying he's got a delivery for the people next door, etc. Key fobs can't be shared without depriving yourself of access.

I was actually suggesting a two part security system - both keypads and a fob. Its not the most economical but it is by far the most secure. Cloning a fob is no good to you without the passcode, having the passcode is no good without a fob. And in case of a security leak you can easily see who leaked the information, especially if as Victor suggested you tie it to the tenant on both the fob and the passcode.

jetski

Residents at a property development in north Dublin are furious after ‘‘for sale’’ signs were removed from their homes by their property management company.

The signs were removed the day before a new phase of the development at Hampton Wood in Finglas was launched.

The second-hand homes that the signs were removed from are being sold for lower prices than properties in the new phase.

Some residents found workmen on cranes at their apartment balconies removing the signs on Friday, April 25.

‘‘I was on a day off and when I heard the noise, I thought I was being broken into. I nearly had a heart attack,” said one resident.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=news-qqqid=32596-qqqx=1.asp

athtrasna

Many leases for new developments ban for sale signs. There was huge confusion in ours and even though I had it in writing from the management agent that only houses in our development were not allowed to erect signs, they took it down anyway. Luckily hubby caught them in the act and we got it put up again.

I also called the estate agents of a neighbouring apartment that was for sale and I think they were thinking of reporting the theft to the gardai as the signs remain the property of the estate agent.

In this case it sounds like dirty tricks... don't know why anyone would want to buy new (unless the buyer was not a FTB and the units were small enough to avoid stamp duty). We reckon we spent at least 15k between carpets, blinds, tiles, light fittings etc, all things we could not take with us. All that and for a lower price than the new ones....

A Dub in Glasgo

They should all put the signs back up and put for sale posters on the inside of all the windows

what2do

The development I'm in does not allow for sale signs to be erected within the complex... however I have seen some signs inside windows and I'm guessing that is outside the management cos control.

The_Conductor

Its entirely normal for leases to specify that no notices, billboard, signs or advertisements may be placed on the exterior of a property or in a position visible from the road. This is not limited to "For Sale" notices, but also covers election posters, political posters (e.g. Vote "No" to Lisbon etc) or posters advertising goods or services.

Some management companies police the different rules in their leases a lot more strictly than others (e.g. how many satellite dishes do you see everywhere.....?)

Check your lease- most probably it has specific clauses prohibiting signs like this. The fact that the new properties are still overpriced is probably just an added incentive to the Management Company to enforce the rules a bit more stringently.......