The Mega **Management Company** thread

Stealdo

Fully agree with PaulW here....the sooner owners (as oppose to residents) realise that they are the shareholders of the management company and the management agent is only a company hired by them the better. While the developer will initially be a director of the company to faciliitate set up and handover they should be out as quickly as possible. The management company is a Private Limited Company and must abide by the rules of such. i.e. Any shareholder can put forward a proposal at the AGM and if seconded it should go to a vote. You have the power to change how things are run. Sometimes I think it would be worthwhile putting forward a motion at the AGM to reappoint the existing Mgt Agent, just to make the point to them that they are there because you have hired them to be there, not because they have the right to be. Same goes to the OP - while the developer may be a director of both the mgt agent & the mgt company it doesn't mean that the shareholders cannot propose to change the agent and vote on it. Directors are there to carry out the day to day running of the business on behalf of the shareholders, not to run a dictatorship. Again - just going through the motions of proposing to keep the agent sends a message.

For what it's worth Sizzler - did you friend ever consider that part of the reason the fees go up (for everyone) is because there are some people who won't pay the full (if any of the) amount? Anything you want to know about how the money is being spent should be freely available to you as a shareholder of the company. Again make a proposal at the AGM for more detailed breakdown of expenses in the accounts to made available.

In my estate I pay c. €700 per year (for 4 years running) and it covers buildings insurance, refuse collection and the upkeep of the estate, I think it's very reasonable, and yet some people still refuse to pay (generally because of incredibly frivilous reasons) driving up the cost for everyone else. The developer is still a director of the management company and to be honest I dread the day that he hands it over to the residents because of the guff I have heard from some at the AGM's and the general apathy of most.

Paulw

Sizzler wrote: »

To be fair chief, the example you have set out above is how it should work, the nirvana, best practice etc.

Actually, it it nos nirvana or best practice. It is actually how we do things in our development. We were sick of the management agent we had, and the developer being directors, so we took action. We called an EGM and removed them all. Now I am a director, we have employed a very good management agent.

Our fees have not gone up in 4 years, and will go down next year.

Sizzler wrote: »

The distain and consternation from many residents that are tied into management agreements is due to the fact : a) The overall service is not value for money for the fee levied. b) Recourse is minimal as 99% of agreements mean a 1 year minimum tie in from the date of the last person moving into their property i.e. estate handover, which effectively means a 2 year commitment for residents before you can look to set up your own committee. c) Most management agreements cover generic basic maintenance like "looking after green areas" & refuse collection. Whoop de doo.(Granted some include building insurance )Are you telling me prices of c.€1500 represent value for money for the above? I neglected to mention the estates that have compulsory tie ins for 3 years and non-negotiable rate increases. For example, year 1 - €1,000 Year 2: Meh, we'll jack up the price to €1,500....you get my drift.

Sounds like people moan but few are willing to do anything about it. If you want value for your money, then do something. Get quotes from suppliers of services, select a service which does give you value, elect your own directors, control your own money.

Our development isn't fully handed over. Our common area is still under the control of the developer because we are not satisfied with the work.

I can't vouch for your value for money since I have not seen your accounts. We had our accounts audited recently, and I also personally went through them. We found areas where we could make better use of the money next year, and reduce our costs. We changed landscaping service, we changed refuse service, and the money we saved on those we used to install a CCTV system and improved security gates.

To be honest, I'm a bit sick of people moaning about management companies when all they actually do is moan. If you don't like what you get or have, then do something. All it takes is a few people to get together, form a resident's association, then start dealing with the management company directors and management agent as an organised group. You'll have more effect that way. It doesn't take much to call an EGM and vote out the current directors, and replace the management agent.

If we can do it, I certainly don't see why others can't. It's more likely that they won't, because they are too lazy.

oil painting

we are in the same boat at the moment,2yr old estate,we have a residents committee now up and running,we needed to do alot of research to learn to get our heads around it all... and we did that because we wanted to be pro active in making the estate run more efficently. .... we have recently met with another managing agent who has taken over twice from our current agent... we also got a quote off him for the managment agents job which was much less than the 45,000 we are paying currently paying... 26,000 was new quote... also the builders owe near 20,000 for outstanding fees and the current agent wont issue any notification to the builder to get it,even though he is issuing residents with solicitors letters to get their fees...we are feeling that the agent is working for the builder rather than us.... we are in the process of calling an EGM to re appoint new directors..... we want control of the cheque book so we feel we are in control of our own money... it has been quite difficult for homeowners to understand the whole inns and outs of this but luckily people want to put time and energy into it...i agree that some residents dont understand how paying the fees works,you get a range of services for the fee-i understand that if the services are not being supplied then there needs to be action taken but usually the people who dont pay are the ones who never do anything.....

Sizzler wrote: »

Is there many people who have issues with their management company or frankly feel they are bent over a table and at the mercy (or should I say mercinary) of their management company to pay up each year ?

Guy at work has a royal pain with his management company and felt he was getting nothing for his €1500 a year so with the aid of a debt advice agency he got a letter sent to the management company saying he was skint and can only afford to pay them €20 a week. Check mate. Hes not refusing to pay and the management company dont want to be seen to harassing someone for a sum they dont have. He is sending them a chq for €20 a week.

thats a disgrace,he is expecting other residents to pay for his services,its the same as stealing,sizzler does saying "cheak mate" mean you think this kind of behaviour is cool or something????

bobbysands81

Deleted User wrote: »

Myself and the GF have owned & been living in our apartment for about 1.5 years. My GF was on the residents committee up until 3 months ago but she left because of the frustration of nothing being done by the management company (MC) or by them taking forever to do anything.

They (the MC) were already instated when we bought off the plans and there was talk about booting them out when the AGM came up because it transpired that one of the head honchos in the Builders, from whom we bought the apartment, is also one of the heads of the MC. He's basically running both companies and essentially crossing his own palm with silver by giving the tender to the MC of which he is a part. (We found this out through a neighbouring complex who booted them out and got a new MC to take over).

Anyway, to the matter at hand......Our complex isn't very well signposted. Up until a few months ago it wasn't signposted AT ALL, but they've since put up (at our expense) a kind of stone/granite sign that's about 5' tall x 3' wide x 2' deep with our complex's name on.

It's past the entrance (in the direction of where most traffic heads) so a lot of traffic misses it until they're past the turn....see attachment......but my main reason for posting is this:

It used to have just our complex's name on it, but last week we noticed that there was a metal stencil of the builder's company logo on the stone facade. A lot of people objected to it, but since then they've sandblasted the stencil and it is now permanently engrained in the sign. When we complained we were informed that it can be removed......get this....AT OUR EXPENSE!!

Do we, as tenants, have any right to have it removed? Surely, seeing as we paid for it, we get to decide whether or not they can advertise on it or not?
The residents' committee's official line is that they're requesting them to both remove the logo and place the sign in a more suitable and prominent location.

We have our own forum on neighbours.ie but just thought i'd see what my fellow Boardsies thought. Has anyone any similar experiences?

Just seen this mate...

Check the Planning Permission (your local authority should give it to you). More than likely there'll be a provision in it which states that the Developers must adequately name the estate in order to comply with permission. You should write to the builders quoting this and that should be that. If they fail to do so, contact the Planning Section or Building Enforcement Officer in your Local Authority. As your developer is still in control of the Management Co you might find that they are well within their rights to name the estate as they have, even with their "logo" on it.

It is common practice for the builders to be director of both the management company and his own company. The ODCE has published draft guidance relating to Director's of Management Companies and it is available free from www.odce.ie - it's well worth a look as it will tell you exactly what a Director of a Management Co should do. Interestingly if a Director of a Management Co does not work in the best interests of the company then he can be prosecuted. If your Director is awarding himself contracts that he shouldn't be getting then this would be quite easy to prove, he could then be "barred" being Director of his own Development Company... that being pointed out to him should scare him a lot.

When you sign contracts for your estate the developer does not just have to build the estate , there are other things which they must do for you as well, part of this is a legal obligation to ensure the estate is run correctly until the handover to the unit owners take place.

The National Consumer's Agency have produced a very good booklet for people living in Multi-Unit Developments and is available at www.consumerconnect.ie - this too is well worth a read.

You might also wish to note that this whole area is going to be regulated soon, the Dept of Justice is currently working on this and is waiting on publication of a consultation process from the Law Reform Commission (due very soon I think) In the meantime the NCA is working on a voluntary code of practice with developers which should help cut out this kind of thing, this is also due out very very soon as far as I know.

In the meantime as a shareholder in the Management Co you have a right to get a copy of the minutes of all director's meetings of the company, what they have discussed etc... If you want to put pressure on the Developers this is a good way of starting.

In your one and a half years there has there actually been an AGM called?

bitos

My boy friend moved from his apartment in Swords in September 2007, he even left a day before as MTS had a nex fellow to move in. He got his deposit back after a bit back and forward. and then we forgot all about MTS until a day in March where our bank called and said our account was overdrawn with €550.00, money taken from MTS the day after he moved out. MTS had been told in September that we where moved out, however they took another rent without our knowledge. And now since March we have been fighting with them to get the money back to our account.:mad:

We have tried to get hold of the Lady who dealt with the rentals, but she was always "out", the thing is that we could hear her upstairs when we where in the shop, and when we called we could almost hear her whisper to the poor lady answering the phone, to tell us she was not in. She lied several times telling us she had sent a cheque to us, but we never received any. At last we said to her that we would now bring the solicitor. Today we got the cheque, we had arranged to meet her for a meeting, which she said we needed in order to meet her. when we came she was not there, just a cheque for €550.00.

Thank you MTS, for finnally paying back the money your tried to steal from us.

My advice, do not have any dealings with MTS if you can avoid it.

regards,

X

swordsinfo

Is anyone having problems with their management company. We are having problems with our management company who decided to increase the management fees without due notice.

Because of this loads havent paid their management fees thus they cant do any of the fixes required - horrible circle!

Myself and me neighbour were thinking of setting up some sort of committee but do you think people would be interested or do people care. A lot of the apartments in my block are rented out so tennents dont really care as its the landlord that pays this :mad:

Sizzler

Suggest you post this in the accomadation & property forum, plenty of management company questions are raised there and have been answered in detail before for similar situations.

Chinafoot

Moved to Accom/Property.

As Sizzler said, you'll get a better response here.

stovelid

swordsinfo wrote: »

Is anyone having problems with their management company. We are having problems with our management company who decided to increase the management fees without due notice.

Because of this loads havent paid their management fees thus they cant do any of the fixes required - horrible circle!

Myself and me neighbour were thinking of setting up some sort of committee but do you think people would be interested or do people care. A lot of the apartments in my block are rented out so tennents dont really care as its the landlord that pays this :mad:

Who are the directors of the management company? Have the developers handed over the estate?

Was the price increase proposed and passed at your AGM?

We formed a residents committee after our last AGM and found that it has been very useful as a unified, organized front in putting pressure on the developers (who are still the directors as the estate is not complete).

We have found that this is a far more useful option than just not paying your fees which is a mug's game, to be honest. As well as being an obstruction to selling your property, you are leaving yourself open to debt collection/legal action, hurting the other residents and probably removing your right to vote at your own AGM.

swordsinfo

Thanks for all the responses!!

Yea its been a frustrating time - had a fire in my apartment which lead to common areas being ruined - that was back in november and the common areas still arent fixed. I dont know enough information about the whole setup about the estate yet and its these kind of prompts that I need.

I have spoken with my neighbour and she really wants to set up some sort of committee to deal with the management company agents. Just seems like there is a lot of talk but not action!! All I'm looking for is some common sense!

swordsinfo

re the price change I dont think so - I think I can get my hands on the minutes from that meeting but as far as I know they were not discussed

Paulw

Some advice for you -

Get the AGM minutes from the last AGM
Get the accounts for the last year
Get a copy of the articles of the management company
(All these documents should be available through the CRO with a small charge).

Then -

Form a resident's association
If you feel something is wrong, call an EGM (the articles of the management company will list how many shareholders are required to call an EGM).
For the EGM set the agenda as - directors to explain current expenditure, directors to explain increase in fees, vote on any fee changes

You may also have the ability to remove the sitting directors and elect new directors, especially if you feel they are not doing a proper job.

But, first, read all the documents you can get through the CRO.

swordsinfo

I have request only this morning the minutes from the last AGM and I have already recieved the accounts for the year. I think I really need most of the residents on board before I can presue this but seen as most of the people living in the area are renting I might be banging my head against a brick wall!

Paulw

It can be very hard. We had problems with our previous management agent and how the development was being run.

We formed a resident's association. There are 112 units in our development, and at our first meeting we had 34 people. Not bad. We formed a committee of 8, and then started to deal with the developer and management agent as a unit/group.

We gathered all the documents - AGM minutes, accounts, company documents, and we then decided to take a further step. We argued with the developer and management agent for over a year, until we had enough. We called an EGM (it only required 7 people), at which we removed the developers as directors of our management company, and we also replaced the management agent. That was over a year ago now, and our place is just so much better.

Make sure you read as much as you can - lease agreements, company articles, company law, etc and you will then be in a much stronger position.

Whatever happens, do all you can to form a resident's association.

stovelid

I second this OP.

The directors (i.e the developers) of the management company didn't want to know about our grievances as single tenants. As a organized group, they are taking notice and have started to meet us. As a result of a recent meeting, the management agency assigned a new agent to our estate and things are starting to happen.

swordsinfo

Thanks for the info! we have started the ball rolling with it all so at least we have some momentium - appreciate all your info - if you dont mind I will refer to these suggestions at a meeting and see what their take on it all is.

daheff

Hi

A fire alarm was going off in an apartment block (unoccupied) for a number of hours yesterday evening. I rang the mgmt company a number of times but was told that the number i rang was only a call centre and that they tried to ring the emergency contact numbers for the mgmt company and there was no answer/phones turned off.

Eventually the somebody came out and turned the alarm off around 11 last nite.

This isnt the first (or second) time that this has happened...last couple of times the alarm was left on all night....keeping us (and our neighbours) awake half the night.

My question is who should I complain to about the noise (and the mgmt co's lack of action)?

I have contacted the mgmt co the last couple of times afterwards and was basically told that we dont work evening times and sure isnt the alarm off now???

connundrum

Strange that the fire alarm was going off in an unoccupied apartment, unless theres a faulty unit installed.

Best thing to do is get on to your managing agent, ask them for a reason as to why this alarm is going off, why the issue isn't being resolved, who the alarm maintenance company are and what sort of contract is in place i.e. do they cover 24 hour call outs etc.

I know from experience that the call centres can be a pain, and they often give out the wrong information. Contact your agent and get the full story.

Victor

You can make a complaint through the council or the courts for nuisance if you want. However, make sure you write to the offending management company first.

I wonder would the fire brigade be interested.

Beanstalk

Thats crazy, there really should be someone who is able to operate a fire panel in or near the building at all times. What if it wasn't a fault? How can they take that long to check it? Even if it is a fault, it should be fixed right away. Mental.

markpb

If your fire alarm system isn't monitored, ask the management company or managing agent to put the system code onto the front of each unit so that owners or the fire brigade can silence the alarm after it's been checked out.

rick_fantastic

i think most of the fire alarms in those types of buildings need to be monitored. but if there is nobody living there then they prob dont have public liability insurance yet and wouldnt need to have it monitored until it is occupied.

you could always just set the place on fire... that'll learn em

markpb

rick_fantastic wrote: »

i think most of the fire alarms in those types of buildings need to be monitored. but if there is nobody living there then they prob dont have public liability insurance yet and wouldnt need to have it monitored until it is occupied.

you could always just set the place on fire... that'll learn em

Fire alarms in apartment blocks are (usually) nothing to do with the owners, they're installed as part of a central system owned by the management company and, as far as I know, there's no obligation for them to be monitored, no more than there is for a house alarm to be monitored. Alarm goes off, people leave, someone calls 999.

woodseb

most of them are set with a code of 00000 or 12345 if you need to turn them off (obviously check there's no fire first)

ixoy

Fire alarm went off in an unoccupied apartment near us for two days solid (following a power cut to the building). The management company were powerless to do anything other than leave repeated messages for the owner/occupier who, I guess, eventually fixed the damn thing. It seems there's little that can be done beyond that. Even to make a complaint about the noise, you're advised to go first to the source of the noise itself - difficult when the owner isn't around!

daheff

Victor wrote: »

You can make a complaint through the council or the courts for nuisance if you want. However, make sure you write to the offending management company first.

I wonder would the fire brigade be interested.

thought about calling fire brigade next time and letting them sort it...but i'd feel really bad if they turned up and wasted their time on it and maybe couldnt respond to a real emergency.

Think sending a letter of complaint to offending mgmt company could be the way to go....seeing as they are not giving a damn about phone calls....and prob a letter to residents association

daheff

woodseb wrote: »

most of them are set with a code of 00000 or 12345 if you need to turn them off (obviously check there's no fire first)

the alarm panel is inside the (locked) hallway...so i would need to break in to turn it off!

VPS

Hello

We've received a letter requesting payment of extra 350 euro on the top of usual 1750 euro annual Management charge (3-bed apt, Tullyvale, Dublin 18)
350 euro levy (once off payment) was approved by AGM Meeting which we were unable to attend.

Levy is mainly to install CCTV system (total cost is 60 K !) in underground parking and common areas to prevent vandalism .
In my view CCTV is not efficient as perpetrator can easily hide his/her identity from camera.

Management Company insists extra 350 euro must be paid as levy was approved by AGM Meeting.

What are my rights in this situation ?

Thanks

Paulw

If it was approved at the AGM, then it is valid and you are liable to pay it.

Unfortunately, the onus is on you to attend the AGM, especially if there is a vote on such issues, or send a proxy in your stead.

In this case, you must pay the levy.

astrofool

Sounds like it went through all the proper channels, and that you must pay. As said, if you didn't go to the AGM, you can't really complain about it afterwards.

CC systems are usually 90% deterrent.

You can however be part of the installation process still, making sure that the optimum angles are covered, making sure that a few of the camera's are installed at eye level to capture faces for conviction, and also by making sure that the camera's are monitored correctly.

I was going to say that this type of thing could be from a sinking fund, but it looks like a once off charge, but the sinking fund should now take into account the maintenance of the CC system, so make sure that has been throught about.