The Mega **Management Company** thread

SteadyEddie

Hi all, myself and 2 friends are renting an apartment. We have received a letter stating we have to pay the management fees for the year. Are we expected to pay this, or are there tenant rights on this, and the landlord has to cover it?

What are the legal issues of not paying it? I don't particularly want to pay to help people living here paint their apartments!

The_Conductor

SteadyEddie wrote: »

Hi all, myself and 2 friends are renting an apartment. We have received a letter stating we have to pay the management fees for the year. Are we expected to pay this, or are there tenant rights on this, and the landlord has to cover it?

What are the legal issues of not paying it? I don't particularly want to pay to help people living here paint their apartments!

It is the landlords duty to pay the Management Fees- not the tenants. The Management Fees are a wholly tax deductable expense for a landlord- not a tenant.

Paulw

Firstly, it doesn't help people paint their apartments. The management fees go on building maintenance, common area maintenance, refuse collection, common area electrical use, development cleaning, block building insurance, etc

As for your issue, the unit owner is legally liable for management fees. So, it should be up to your landlord to pay.

badbrian

SteadyEddie wrote: »

Hi all, myself and 2 friends are renting an apartment. We have received a letter stating we have to pay the management fees for the year.

Was the letter addressed to you personally? And if so was was it from your landlord or the management company (Either way your landlord is still liable).

Dino72

Normally the fees are paid just like any other utility. However it should be in your lease agreement between you and your landlord as to who is liable. It would be highly unusual for the tenant to be paying management fees. But just in case the advice here is to check your lease just to be certain.
If there are fees due by them you should probably forward the letter on in case they have forgotten.

tweety76

Question:
Question:

Purchases a property in phase 1 of a small housing development( 20 houses) in end of 2007. Handed over to MGMT company as Meath Co Co apparently don't want to take on any more private estates.
Paid Management fee (330) for 2008.

Management company have been in regularly cutting grass weeding etc...( not much else to do)

No more houses have been sold and second phase has not been built. There has been no request for 2009 management fees.

What should I do? Obviously plan on saying nothing for the moment but if a bill comes in should I pay, should I query what we are paying for? According to our solocitor the MGMT company is not actually obliged to give you a list of what you are paying for.

I am just interested to see what will happen down the road if no more houses are occupied or the other phase is not built.

BaZmO*

One thing you can be guaranteed of is that you will be asked for the fees, be it next week or next year. So if I were you I'd say nothing but I'd make sure I'd put the money offside.

aoife34

Hi, i moved into an estate that have mgt fees last June. It wasn't really explained well so i did not know what to expect. Over the summer months my grass was cut say 4 times and thats it. What else are they to do?

The estate is generally clean anyway from litter, so its not like they clean anything. They dont cut the grass very neatly and this leaves the place looking untidy.

There was a car window put through last week and there are small bits of glass still on the road, should they be cleaning things like that.

How often are they suppose to come around? I have paid a fortune for 4 grass cuts on a tiny bit of garden!!

markpb

Some of the things they should be doing are listed here but it differs wildly from one estate to another.

Paulw

aoife34 wrote: »

Hi, i moved into an estate that have mgt fees last June. It wasn't really explained well so i did not know what to expect. Over the summer months my grass was cut say 4 times and thats it. What else are they to do?

Ask them. You should be given a planned budget each year, along with details of expenses for the previous year. This should detail the work done, the frequency and what work they plan for the next year.

Ask your management company/agent about the issues. They may not be aware of the broken glass.

aoife34

markpb wrote: »

Some of the things they should be doing are listed here but it differs wildly from one estate to another.

Hi Mark, thanks for that, but i live in a private house, so not much applies, but the list looks good if i were living in an apartment.

athtrasna

aoife34 wrote: »

Hi, i moved into an estate that have mgt fees last June. It wasn't really explained well so i did not know what to expect. Over the summer months my grass was cut say 4 times and thats it. What else are they to do?

The estate is generally clean anyway from litter, so its not like they clean anything. They dont cut the grass very neatly and this leaves the place looking untidy.

There was a car window put through last week and there are small bits of glass still on the road, should they be cleaning things like that.

How often are they suppose to come around? I have paid a fortune for 4 grass cuts on a tiny bit of garden!!

Are you an owner or a tenant? Only owners should have to pay fees.

If you are an owner it sounds like your solicitor didn't go through the details of the management company with you. You are a member of the management company and there are rights and responsibilities entailed in that. I recommend Robert Grogan's guide to Apartment Living - which also deals with houses in managed estates as a good introduction.

Dino72

Hi Aoife,

Certainly you are entitled to a list from your management company to cover what exactly it is you are paying for. As mentioned by another poster that should have been dealt with by your solicitor.

Your first port of call is to approach the managing agents who manage and collect the fees on behalf of the management company.

They are there to take your queries. Once you signed a contract to pay management fees, in a privately managed estate albeit for houses you are still liable irrespective of whether or not you think they do their job. I know that sounds crazy and even if you can prove it, the judge in a court of law has to side with the person holding the signed contract according to a barrister I know who has dealt with this many times.

Also you should contact your residents association. If the managing agents are not doing their job its up to them to make representations on your behalf. If that fails then they may need to organise an EGM to begin takeover proceedings of the management company. (This could all be solved by regulation and legislation). If you would like to know more you can visit right2manage.ie.

uberwolf

tweety76 wrote: »

No more houses have been sold and second phase has not been built. There has been no request for 2009 management fees.

What should I do? Obviously plan on saying nothing for the moment but if a bill comes in should I pay, should I query what we are paying for? According to our solocitor the MGMT company is not actually obliged to give you a list of what you are paying for.

you are a member of a management company, and have hired a management agent to carry out work. Of course you're entitled to the info, full accounts, and to replace the management agents if you feel the cost benefit isn't there (last one would require convening of AGM/EGM, and a vote in accordance with the articles of your company)

tweety76

uberwolf wrote: »

you are a member of a management company, and have hired a management agent to carry out work. Of course you're entitled to the info, full accounts, and to replace the management agents if you feel the cost benefit isn't there (last one would require convening of AGM/EGM, and a vote in accordance with the articles of your company)

Thanks uberwolf, I wonder why my solicitor said that we weren't obliged to receive this information then?? Did she just not have a clue what she was talking about?

The_Conductor

tweety76 wrote: »

Thanks uberwolf, I wonder why my solicitor said that we weren't obliged to receive this information then?? Did she just not have a clue what she was talking about?

It is a legal requirement for a management company (or indeed any other legally constituted company) to hold an annual AGM, constituted in a manner prescribed under the Company's Act. The act also makes it a requirement that all shareholders be supplied with the annual accounts prior to the AGM, and offered the opportunity to raise items on the AGM agenda (which could include sacking the management agent or indeed any item relevant to the running of the company or its activities).

S.

Lyndan

Hey All.

I am part of a group of residents who are trying to remove the directors as developers of our management company. There are still 3 apartments in the developers names - unsold. Can we still take control or do they have to sell all units?

Thanks

The_Conductor

Lyndan wrote: »

Hey All.

I am part of a group of residents who are trying to remove the directors as developers of our management company. There are still 3 apartments in the developers names - unsold. Can we still take control or do they have to sell all units?

Thanks

Check the articles of association of the management company (you will have a copy with your title deeds- or can get a copy from Company House). This should spell out your entitlements.

Lyndan

Our MofA says the following -

The number of directors (who should not exceed six) and the names of the first Directors shall be determined in writing by the subscriber to the memorandum and articles of association or a majority of them. The first Directors should subject to article 42 hold office until all house holders in the estate have become members of the company and provisions herinafter contained as to the retirement of directors by rotation shall not apply until the first AGM of the company next following that date and if any of the first directors shall vacate office whether by virtue of the operation of article 42 or otherwise before all of the house holders in the estate have become members the remaining first directors may resolve to co opt any person to fill the vacancy.

Im thinking as there are 3 left in the developers name that means everyone is not all householders so therefore we cant get on. Does anyone have experience of this?

Paulw

Now is that there are 3 units not sold, or 3 units in the developers name (ie they "bought" them themselves? It's a very big legal difference.

If the units are unsold, then the developers will remain as directors until those units are sold, unfortunately.

Lyndan

The units are unsold and still in the developers name. They have purchased some personally but they have been transferred into their own names.

Paulw

Unfortunately it does happen from time to time that developers hold back a unit or two, so that they don't have to transfer control of the management company over.

But, with the current situation, they just might be finding it hard to sell the final units.

Bottom line, you're a little stuck with them as directors of your management company.

athtrasna

It's strange that the articles limit your directors to six? In theory every member of the company is entitled to become a director.

Lyndan

We are going to try and get in touch with the directors and see if they will let us get more involved.

We think they are holding on to the last units purposely - there are some issues with the CoCo and monies owed to them in lieu of bonds not being paid etc.

The sooner this so called legislation comes out the better - its a nightmare trying to gain some control

antoinolachtnai

I wouldn't think you'd want all your members to become directors. You have to elect a smaller group of directors. I think there is also a statutory limit on the number of directors (though I'm not certain).

athtrasna

Our problem is usually getting any directors not with everyone wanting to become one but the advice we had is that technically every owner is entitled to become a director unless previously disqualified.

antoinolachtnai

They are entitled, surely, but they would have to offer themselves and if there were more candidates than seats, there would be an election in accordance with the articles of association.

I think I was mistaken in saying there was a statutory limit on the number of directors. But practically speaking, I would think that you would not want more than six. But if you think you could get things done more smoothly with 21, be my guest :-)

antoinolachtnai

They are entitled, surely, but they would have to offer themselves and if there were more candidates than seats, there would be an election in accordance with the articles of association.

I think I was mistaken in saying there was a statutory limit on the number of directors. But practically speaking, I would think that you would not want more than six. But if you think you could get things done more smoothly with 21, be my guest :-)

markpb

athtrasna wrote: »

Our problem is usually getting any directors not with everyone wanting to become one but the advice we had is that technically every owner is entitled to become a director unless previously disqualified.

What they're saying is that every shareholder (and only shareholders) is allowed to put themselves forward for election to the board. If there are no places than people, it's usually done through a yey/ney show of hands. If there are more people than places, it goes to an election. It does not mean that every shareholder could be a director at the same time.

Lyndan

What if the directors decide they never want to come off as directors? Right now they control everything maybe they always want it that way. We share a development with a commercial shop and although they lease the building the shop is in we have heard that they rent the carparking spaces at the front of our development (ones which we thought would be our visitor carparking spaces).