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The Mega **Management Company** thread

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    #1142
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    merlynthewizard wrote: »
    That's what we are pushing to change. They also should not be linked to the developers.

    I doubt that will be legally possible.

    Even management companies are run in accordance with the Companies Act. If they are shareholders, then they have to own a unit in the development (although they can rent it out and live elsewhere). How would your proposal deal with that?

    As for them not being linked to the developers, that might also be a legal minefield.

    In general, once shareholders are elected as directors, then the developer has no input to the running of the management company at all.

    There is a lot you can do, even just with the current legislation.

    The new bill that Joan Bruton was talking about is the Multi-unit Development Bill 2009.


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    #1143
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    merlynthewizard wrote: »
    That's what we are pushing to change. They also should not be linked to the developers.

    Why should they live in the development? There are loads of developments out there where there are very few owner occupiers- in my own one for example we are down to 2 owner occupiers out of 23 units......?


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    #1144
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    merlynthewizard wrote: »
    Do you have a reference to this law please..thanks :D

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/act/pub/0033/index.html

    Specifically - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/act/pub/0033/sec0130.html#zza33y1963s130


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    #1145
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Paulw wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/act/pub/0033/index.html

    Specifically - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/act/pub/0033/sec0130.html#zza33y1963s130

    Cheers Paul, I'm up to my eyes here.


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    #1146
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Cheers Paul, I'm up to my eyes here.

    I have it bookmarked. Frequent reading. :D


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    #1147
    merlynthewizard
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭merlynthewizard


    Paulw wrote: »
    I doubt that will be legally possible.

    Even management companies are run in accordance with the Companies Act. If they are shareholders, then they have to own a unit in the development (although they can rent it out and live elsewhere). How would your proposal deal with that?

    As for them not being linked to the developers, that might also be a legal minefield.

    In general, once shareholders are elected as directors, then the developer has no input to the running of the management company at all.

    There is a lot you can do, even just with the current legislation.

    The new bill that Joan Bruton was talking about is the Multi-unit Development Bill 2009.

    Well as a resident who is also an owner I feel that the first choice directors should live on site and will be pushing other owner occupiers to elect the same.I put my name in the hat since the start of the year but had to miss the AGM due to family sickness.

    We also need a more regular platform then the AGM to raise issues with them like a quarterly meeting.

    Drive them out seems the only way.


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    #1148
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    merlynthewizard wrote: »
    Well as a resident who is also an owner I feel that the first choice directors should live on site and will be pushing other owner occupiers to elect the same.I put my name in the hat since the start of the year but had to miss the AGM due to family sickness.

    We also need a more regular platform then the AGM to raise issues with them like a quarterly meeting.

    Drive them out seems the only way.

    Who is "them"??

    Once we replaced the developers as the management company directors, we also replaced the management agent.

    You can nominate/elect anyone you want as a director. There is no restriction on them being a resident or not, as long as they are a shareholder.

    Of course, if you can't attend the AGM yourself, you are more than entitled to send someone as your proxy, who can vote on your behalf. You can also be elected as a director, with your proxy accepting the nomination.

    You can have regular resident's meetings, as often as you want. Once things are starting to go well, you will find attendance trail off. You only need to hold an AGM once (Annual General Meeting), at which you will have election of directors, budget proposal, discussion of company accounts, etc.

    Our development had over half of the shareholders attend the first AGM, mostly due to the large number of problems/issues. Our last AGM (4-5 years later), we just about managed to get a quorum. We have had ourselves elected as directors for a few years now, and we control what happens.

    From your posts, more than anything else, you seem to lack the knowledge of how a management company is run, and what power you (as a shareholder) have.


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    #1149
    merlynthewizard
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭merlynthewizard


    Paulw wrote: »
    Who is "them"??

    Once we replaced the developers as the management company directors, we also replaced the management agent.

    You can nominate/elect anyone you want as a director. There is no restriction on them being a resident or not, as long as they are a shareholder.

    Of course, if you can't attend the AGM yourself, you are more than entitled to send someone as your proxy, who can vote on your behalf. You can also be elected as a director, with your proxy accepting the nomination.

    You can have regular resident's meetings, as often as you want. Once things are starting to go well, you will find attendance trail off. You only need to hold an AGM once (Annual General Meeting), at which you will have election of directors, budget proposal, discussion of company accounts, etc.

    Our development had over half of the shareholders attend the first AGM, mostly due to the large number of problems/issues. Our last AGM (4-5 years later), we just about managed to get a quorum. We have had ourselves elected as directors for a few years now, and we control what happens.

    From your posts, more than anything else, you seem to lack the knowledge of how a management company is run, and what power you (as a shareholder) have.
    My fees are rising every year and now stands at 1480 for a service which gets worse every year. I phone the management company about these problems and they say "write in"...so in write in and the letters to say the will look at it.Then nothing.
    Problems i have is the underground car park is used as a park and ride for the local train station but they still insist on keeping the pin entry and not a fob.
    2.Everyone knows and uses the pin entry for the bins for all the local housing areas but we pay for it.
    3. Car Crime due to pin entry to car park and CCTV cameras are "dummies". I've had a car stolen,1 broken into and 1 damaged to the tune of 3k.
    4.They lie.
    5.They do little for the place.
    6.They refuse to talk about problems unless its an AGM and a AGM only.


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    #1150
    merlynthewizard
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭merlynthewizard


    People who live on site should have more of a say then a landlord who may own 100's of apartments and never visits them.

    I live here and I care but I can't get a say because of the shady way things are done here.

    I request that I'm a director and will be available to hear problems for the residents anytime.


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    #1151
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    merlynthewizard wrote: »
    My fees are rising every year and now stands at 1480 for a service which gets worse every year. I phone the management company about these problems and they say "write in"...so in write in and the letters to say the will look at it.Then nothing.
    Problems i have is the underground car park is used as a park and ride for the local train station but they still insist on keeping the pin entry and not a fob.
    2.Everyone knows and uses the pin entry for the bins for all the local housing areas but we pay for it.
    3. Car Crime due to pin entry to car park and CCTV cameras are "dummies". I've had a car stolen,1 broken into and 1 damaged to the tune of 3k.
    4.They lie.
    5.They do little for the place.
    6.They refuse to talk about problems unless its an AGM and a AGM only.

    Firstly, your issues are with the management agent, and not the management company. It's the management agent that is not resolving your issues.

    Send a registered letter to each of the management company directors (their details must be registered with the CRO).

    Get as many shareholders (unit owners as opposed to residents) as possible to also write to the management company directors.

    Form a resident's association, who, as a unit, can deal with the directors of the management company. Bypass the management agent, and hassle the management company directors to deal with the management agent.

    Again, the more information and understanding you have of how a management company works will help you.


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    #1152
    Dubsta
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Dubsta


    Hay!

    I have been looking online and failed to get an answer over the last hour!! Anyhooo! (Yes Yes, I know I should have come here in the first place :D LOL)

    Anyhoo!!

    Does anyone know if the Management Company need to schedule in half yearly fire drills under fire regulations? Or does this need to be specified on the details of the management companies duties in the complex??

    :confused:

    Thanks in advance ;)


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    #1153
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Dubsta wrote: »
    Hay!

    I have been looking online and failed to get an answer over the last hour!! Anyhooo! (Yes Yes, I know I should have come here in the first place :D LOL)

    Anyhoo!!

    Does anyone know if the Management Company need to schedule in half yearly fire drills under fire regulations? Or does this need to be specified on the details of the management companies duties in the complex??

    :confused:

    Thanks in advance ;)

    Does your lease shed any light on this?
    I imagine it depends on what regulations were in place when the complex was granted planning permission- possibly along with any conditions attached to the block insurance policy (which often does specify things like this).

    Where I am- we've never ever had a firedrill- and given some residents are incapacitated (and not likely to open their doors to strangers) I'd like to see how something like this might function. Then again- according to our insurance company- we are at risk of flooding, not fire. :(


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    #1154
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,884 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Dubsta wrote: »
    Hay!

    I have been looking online and failed to get an answer over the last hour!! Anyhooo! (Yes Yes, I know I should have come here in the first place :D LOL)

    Anyhoo!!

    Does anyone know if the Management Company need to schedule in half yearly fire drills under fire regulations? Or does this need to be specified on the details of the management companies duties in the complex??

    :confused:

    Thanks in advance ;)

    Twice yearly fire drills would seem a bit excessive. We don't have any fire-drill related conditions in our Articles for a 27 year old Block of 24 apartments. We get a yearly inspection of fire equipment for €200 from a crowd in Cavan who stick extra signage all over the block and then try to charge 9 times for what the same signage would cost on eBay. Our maintenance company also thinks that's acceptable; the yearly inspection that is, not getting done over on the signage.


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    #1155
    DD67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭DD67


    Just looking for some advice on non payment of managemant fees, we live in an estate of 90 houses built around a green area we pay €400 a year to the developers to manage the estate which consists of cutting the grass a couple of times a month during the summer, street lighting and insurance.

    The developers have not registered as a management company the estate is built 4 years, the developers use the estate to access a storage compound to which they have shipping containers, plant and machinery, top soil and builders rubble dumped. They have trucks going in and out practially evey day.

    They had planning to use this compound but this ran out 3 years they have replied for retention but we as residents objected and they withdrew there application but continue to use the compound area.

    My question is can we use the fact that part of our estate is been still used by the orginal developers for storage as a reason to withhold payment as technically they have not moved of site.

    One neighbour said that as they are not registered as a management company we are not legally obliged to pay them. I have no problem paying fees but not untill they stoping using our estate as a dumping ground for there rubbish. We are been threatened with court action for non payment of fees.


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    #1156
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭markpb


    DD67 wrote: »
    One neighbour said that as they are not registered as a management company we are not legally obliged to pay them.

    Did you sign a lease agreement or other contract with the developer when you bought the house? This will tell you whether you're obliged to pay service charges or not. Never trust a neighbour or a friend when it comes to these things - you can't stand up in court and use that as a defence. If you're not sure, ask your bank or solicitor for a copy of all the documentation related to the purchase and then ask a solicitor to review it for you.
    They had planning to use this compound but this ran out 3 years they have replied for retention but we as residents objected and they withdrew there application but continue to use the compound area.

    If they're in breech of planning permission, contact the planning (enforcement) department of your local authority and file a complaint. It might be helpful to contact your local councillors about this - they'll be able to keep the pressure on the LA to do something about it.


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    #1157
    DD67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭DD67


    markpb wrote: »
    Did you sign a lease agreement or other contract with the developer when you bought the house? This will tell you whether you're obliged to pay service charges or not. Never trust a neighbour or a friend when it comes to these things - you can't stand up in court and use that as a defence. If you're not sure, ask your bank or solicitor for a copy of all the documentation related to the purchase and then ask a solicitor to review it for you.



    If they're in breech of planning permission, contact the planning (enforcement) department of your local authority and file a complaint. It might be helpful to contact your local councillors about this - they'll be able to keep the pressure on the LA to do something about it.

    We have a copy of the contract so i will get it checked. Our neighbour actually got her solicitor to check over her contract and he said we were not obliged to pay as they are not registered.


    We have lodged a complaint to the council thats why the developer had to apply for retention, maybe its time for another compaint letter to the council.


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    #1158
    jdmluder
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭jdmluder


    DD67 wrote: »
    Just looking for some advice on non payment of managemant fees, we live in an estate of 90 houses built around a green area we pay €400 a year to the developers to manage the estate which consists of cutting the grass a couple of times a month during the summer, street lighting and insurance.


    HI DD67 / Neighbour,

    At least i think im your neighbor ;). Either that or the situation mirroring is uncanny. First off we have a nice estate that is largely it would seem populated with decent people. I am only just getting up to speed with this whole estate management process. The estate is kept well is some areas but very poorly in other areas.
    I have just purchased our Managment companys financial returns online. I think that means that they would be registered. I am more concerned with the transperency of the whole process. We have never been notified of an AGM taking place and never been supplied with the minutes and decisions of these meeting. We have also never been supplied with fiancial statements showng exactly where and how our money is being spent. We need to collectivly decide to get involved in the running of our managment company.


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    #1159
    How Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭How Strange


    Dubsta wrote: »
    Does anyone know if the Management Company need to schedule in half yearly fire drills under fire regulations? Or does this need to be specified on the details of the management companies duties in the complex??
    Unless specified in the lease then they normally wouldn't. The MC has to ensure the following are carried out; 3 x 30 min tests and 1 x 3hr test on the emergency lighting per year, quarterly testing of the fire alarm and associated systems preferably with sounding the bells briefly each time and annual maintenance of fire extinguishers.


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    #1160
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Just wondering if anyone has heard anything further about this bill? The last news I can find is from May 2009, when it was announced.

    Anyone know if the bill is moving, or when it might become law?


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    #1161
    zefer
    Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭zefer


    Hi All

    Does anyone know if there are data protection issues around handing out apartment numbers and the amounts oustanding on their management fees at an AGM to members of the management company (i.e. owners)?

    We are owed approx. €65000 with some of it owning from approx 5 years ago (date of inception).

    I know it is done in other developments with no problems but our managing agent keeps saying it cant be done because it "borders on data protection issues"

    Thanks


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    #1162
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    zefer wrote: »
    Hi All

    Does anyone know if there are data protection issues around handing out apartment numbers and the amounts oustanding on their management fees at an AGM to members of the management company (i.e. owners)?

    We are owed approx. €65000 with some of it owning from approx 5 years ago (date of inception).

    I know it is done in other developments with no problems but our managing agent keeps saying it cant be done because it "borders on data protection issues"

    Thanks
    Sounds risky to me - What would be the purpose of sharing this information?


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    #1163
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    SerialComplaint wrote: »
    Sounds risky to me - What would be the purpose of sharing this information?

    Naming and shaming I imagine.

    Every shareholder (member of the Management Company) is entitled to know who the other members are. If requested, the Management Company is legally obliged under company law to supply this information- name and address details- to another shareholder. Details of any debts owed are entirely a different matter however.


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    #1164
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    We have included them in the accounts presented to the AGM but as an addendum so that they weren't part of what was filed with the CRO. That way only people who saw them were members of the management company who are entitled to have that information.


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    #1165
    timberland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 87 ✭✭timberland


    just a quick question that was probably already answered some pages back but can anyone tell me what is the very worst thing that could happen if you refuse to pay the management fees? what can the management company do if i just refuse to pay them the money?


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    #1166
    Mailman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Mailman


    The Directors of the managment company acting on behalf of the members(which includes you) can apply to court to terminate your leasehold and place a lien on your property to recover fees outstanding and costs associated with collection of same.
    Publish your name in Stubbs Gazette.
    Pass the debt to a debt collection company who will hound you to the gates of hell for recovery.


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    #1167
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    timberland wrote: »
    just a quick question that was probably already answered some pages back but can anyone tell me what is the very worst thing that could happen if you refuse to pay the management fees? what can the management company do if i just refuse to pay them the money?

    You will also find yourself unable to sell your property, if there are outstanding debts in place. If things get really bad, and the mgmt co goes bust and gets struck off, you will find yourself in a legal quagmire, unable to do anything with your property.


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    #1168
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭markpb


    timberland wrote: »
    just a quick question that was probably already answered some pages back but can anyone tell me what is the very worst thing that could happen if you refuse to pay the management fees? what can the management company do if i just refuse to pay them the money?

    - apply interest daily, usually between 15 and 18%
    - hire a debt collection solicitor to persue you
    - charge the costs of the solicitor to you
    - withdraw services from your unit
    - take you to court
    - charge the court costs to you
    - refuse to let you sell your apartment until the service charge, interest and court costs are paid

    Separately the court could order you to pay all of if, a monthly installments, garnish your wages or order the sheriff to enter your home and remove items up to the value of the debt. In extreme cases where you're ordered to pay and refuse, you could be imprisoned for contempt of court.


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    #1169
    plasmaguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    A question.

    Who do I pay my management fee/service charge too? Is it directly to the management agents or to the management company?


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    #1170
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭markpb


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Who do I pay my management fee/service charge too? Is it directly to the management agents or to the management company?

    It should usually be the management company but you really need to check your invoice.


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    #1171
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    You send it to the management agent, but it should be made payable to the management company.


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