The Mega **Management Company** thread

robodonkey

Hi folks, is the management company (I know it's technically "us", but we may have no strength at upcoming AGM to counter this) within it's rights to seek to recover unpaid fees by raising others fees? Posters all over our building from management company threatening this action?

Surely the non-payers should be pursued by factoring the debt out to a debt collection agency (perhaps at discount)?

Any folks on here have experience of this?

Thanks!

athtrasna

Gaps in the accounts have to be filled, money needs to be there for vital services such as refuse and insurance. While it is desirable that there is a decent sinking fund to help balance the books in the gap period while legal action is taken to recoup unpaid fees (can take up to 2 years to come to court in my experience), not every development is in good financial condition so they may have to seek to raise money in other ways. Your lease may dictate whether or not this is permissable and/or if an EGM is required.

Paulw

robodonkey wrote: »

Hi folks, is the management company (I know it's technically "us", but we may have no strength at upcoming AGM to counter this) within it's rights to seek to recover unpaid fees by raising others fees? Posters all over our building from management company threatening this action?

That's normal and quite common, until they can recover any outstanding fees due.

The_Conductor

Its unfair- but ultimately the money has to be found from somewhere. Normal practice would be to raise the Management Charges for everyone- to make up the deficit, and as a seperate matter- to chase the deficit- either through courts, or via a debt collection agency. Any debts recovered would then normally accrue to the sink fund.

Note: there are nuclear options built into leases- which could include the involuntary liquidation of a person's shareholding in the Management Company (aka the Management Company would be legally entitled to sell units in arrears in satisfaction of outstanding fees and any costs associated with attempts to collect these arrears). A person's house or apartment could be sold, against their wishes- its an option- I've not seen it happen thus far- but its specifically built into Management Company structures.

robodonkey

Thanks for replies, don;t think the nuclear option is the way to go just yet, but I'd like to see the non-payers pursued by debt collection/court judgements. Is this something the AGM can be used to discuss/propose?

Also, how does one go about finding the legal owner (rather than occupier) of an apartment? Is it simply a matter of knocking on doors or is there a residential/deeds database somewhere?

Thanks again.........

The_Conductor

Normally a Management Company is obliged to issue a certificate to the new owner of any unit advising that the unit has no outstanding debts associated with it, before it can be sold. The Company Secretary would usually have records of all these certificates- and can be requested (and is obliged) to furnish these to any shareholder in good standing. Company Law also dictates that the Management Company compile and furnish a full and complete list of all shareholders as required (any shareholder can request it).

robodonkey

It seems obvious now you've said it!
Thanks

pinkypinky

Our agent looked into passing the debt to a collection agency but they were advised that collection agencies don't take on this sort of debt. One reason was because the debt was going to keep mounting. They prefer to deal with a fixed amount.

markpb

pinkypinky wrote: »

Our agent looked into passing the debt to a collection agency but they were advised that collection agencies don't take on this sort of debt. One reason was because the debt was going to keep mounting. They prefer to deal with a fixed amount.

Complete tosh. We've been taking people to court for years. The only limitation is that when you start court proceedings, any debt incurred after that will not be taken into account and must be dealt with in a future court case.

higgins2010

How do we get rid of a property management company. i live in an small private estate of ten houses. we are charged €400. we want to take over the running of the estate . how do we do this

The_Conductor

higgins2010 wrote: »

How do we get rid of a property management company. i live in an small private estate of ten houses. we are charged €400. we want to take over the running of the estate . how do we do this

Legally there has to be an AGM- at which all owners can vote to fire the management agent (all owners being the shareholders of the Management Company). I'd also suggest exploring having the council 'take the estate in charge'- however this is reliant on the estate meeting their standards- and being fully complete to planning by the developer- which very often isn't the case.

Step 1- if you're an owner- find out where and when the AGM is.

Step 2- get all the other owners to attend.

Note: EUR400 a year is a fraction of what most management companies charge- and I'd hazard a guess that its run on a non-profit basis. The third party insurance for an estate would normally cost more than this per unit.......

S.

higgins2010

Thanks for the info, was a great help. we found out that we have to fill in a B2 form and get the developers to sign it as they are the present directors of the management company. In order for the council to take it over the developers also have to sign it over so we could be waiting.

Dilynnio

Hi all,

Just wondering what would happen if the management company did not fulfill their obligations in the contract/lease?

How does a property owner go about bringing this to the attention of the company?

I would be worried that maybe in the long term it maybe a bad idea as you live there!

What do people think?

Thanks in advance.

markpb

Dilynnio wrote: »

Just wondering what would happen if the management company did not fulfill their obligations in the contract/lease?

Generally the lease just says the company must insure the property and "manage" it but the specifics are left to the directors. This means there is no contractual obligation to clean the windows, etc.

If services aren't being provided, get in touch with the agent and directors to see what the problem is. Set up a residents association or try to get elected to the board at the next AGM.

Paulw

Your first port of call is to notify the company directors. Their details should be available to do directly, or you can get the info from the CRO website.

I guess it would really depend on exactly how they are not fulfilling their obligations.

Dilynnio

Thanks for the advice.

A few incidents have occurred that are infringing on my rights as a owner/occupier.

I have brought this to the attention of the company and have been given alot of lip service but nothing that i can see has been done.

I am now being asked for my fee for this year but I feel that I am being ignored.

So I am not sure what to do!

athtrasna

Dilynnio wrote: »

Thanks for the advice.

A few incidents have occurred that are infringing on my rights as a owner/occupier.

I have brought this to the attention of the company and have been given alot of lip service but nothing that i can see has been done.

I am now being asked for my fee for this year but I feel that I am being ignored.

So I am not sure what to do!

Are you referring to the management agent not doing what they are meant to or the management company? Remember you are a member of the management company. That brings rights and responsibilities (including paying your fee as per your lease).

Paulw

Dilynnio wrote: »

A few incidents have occurred that are infringing on my rights as a owner/occupier.

I have brought this to the attention of the company and have been given alot of lip service but nothing that i can see has been done.

If you are not getting satisfaction from the management agent, then you should go directly to the directors of the management company.

Well Hellooo

Bertram court. Christchurch
charge 1,450 PA. for small 1 bed apt.
No A.G.M. for 4 years,
No breakdown of accounts.
I'm not paying a penny until government bring in legislation.

The_Conductor

Well Hellooo wrote: »

Bertram court. Christchurch
charge 1,450 PA. for small 1 bed apt.
No A.G.M. for 4 years,
No breakdown of accounts.
I'm not paying a penny until government bring in legislation.

There is legislation in force- most notably company law........

Well Hellooo

No there is no company law. Anyone can run an apartment complex and do as they like. Try it! There is no legislation and that's why judge in court doesn't know what to do or how to handle situation.
We have got to stand up and stop allowing people to walk all over us.

markpb

Well Hellooo wrote: »

I'm not paying a penny until government bring in legislation.

That course of action won't get you anywhere (except a court visit). Check your lease to make sure you're automatically a member of the company (some developers put restrictions in place). Then check with your solicitor to make sure you have a membership certificate. Once you've done that, go to www.odce.ie and fill out a complaint form about the lack of AGM.

athtrasna

Well Hellooo wrote: »

No there is no company law. Anyone can run an apartment complex and do as they like. Try it! There is no legislation and that's why judge in court doesn't know what to do or how to handle situation.
We have got to stand up and stop allowing people to walk all over us.

YOU are the management company. At least a member anyway. So the mess is at least part your fault. Buying in a managed development brings rights and responsibilities. If the MC gets struck off you suffer. If there is no money to pay for refuse or insurance, you suffer.

A little less conversation a little more action is needed. Check your lease. Check the status of the management company with the CRO. Contact the directors. Set up an owners committee. Call an EGM. All of these things can change the future of your development.

Actually just read your OP again and recognised the complex. Am 99% certain there has been an AGM in that time but they were scheduled for the middle of the day to stop people attending. The dates should be in the CRO documentation.

d125

the builder is running the management company
fees start at 1250 and now are 1700 in a year the went up 450. I got the first year budget tv charge 250 "once off charge" but now found out the have sold the right to the tv system to simply tv for 40 years?(CAN THE DO THAT)
im think about not payin the fees and hoping this new bill wil help my case.
is there any way of fighting these robbing management company.the management company was set up 3 years ago no sunk fund and there is lift in the apartment blocks and its a half finished build site and ther is problems with the under ground car park and post boxs the post was stolen from






after readin pages of these problem there should be more help

The_Conductor

d125 wrote: »

the builder is running the management company
fees start at 1250 and now are 1700 in a year the went up 450. I got the first year budget tv charge 250 "once off charge" but now found out the have sold the right to the tv system to simply tv for 40 years?(CAN THE DO THAT)
im think about not payin the fees and hoping this new bill wil help my case.
is there any way of fighting these robbing management company.the management company was set up 3 years ago no sunk fund and there is lift in the apartment blocks and its a half finished build site and ther is problems with the under ground car park and post boxs the post was stolen from






after readin pages of these problem there should be more help

You need to talk to other owners- and if there was not a properly constituted AGM- have one called- or alternatively check your lease and organise an EGM.

You- and the other owners- are the management company. The property is vested in the management company- and you in turn lease it (albeit on a several hundred year lease) from the Management Company.

At present the builder's directors may be installed in the Management Company- and may be representing the interests of the builder moreso than the interests of the owners. They are perfectly within their rights however to offer a concession to Simply TV (or any vendor) to act as a supplier to the complex. You may possibly be able to choose to use this vendor or not- yourself (this will be spelt out in your lease).

If you are unhappy with how *your* management company is being run- you need to grasp the mettle and make an effort to make a difference. Are you willing to accept a role in the Management Company? Are you willing to accept the responsibility and duties it may involve?

You have no right to withold your Management Charge- if you're unhappy with it- you are entitled to a set of annual accounts- which you can peruse and come up with suggestions on. You are also entitled to have items added to the agenda of an AGM- reflecting your concerns about how the estate is being managed.

A jump of 450 is a lot- but its not unheard of. The new bill last year brought in a legal requirement to set aside a minimum sum per unit for transfer to the sink fund on an annual basis. Further- despite the fall in building costs- insurance premia are soaring. Particularly in a small complex- insurance costs can be exhorbitant.......

You need to gather information- arm yourself, and then come up with a plan of action.

First things first- get a copy of your lease- and read it very very carefully.

d125

Its abit mad you have more right with a toaster u buy for argos for 10 euro than the apartment you have just bought to live in.

Thank you for ur help smccarrick i will look into that, i have also called into my local td's.we are all should just email all the td and minster every day piss someone off enough to do something for us the apartment owner.The fees are legal robbery and we are us victims powerless to stop it.

athtrasna

d125 wrote: »

Its abit mad you have more right with a toaster u buy for argos for 10 euro than the apartment you have just bought to live in.

Thank you for ur help smccarrick i will look into that, i have also called into my local td's.we are all should just email all the td and minster every day piss someone off enough to do something for us the apartment owner.The fees are legal robbery and we are us victims powerless to stop it.

Did you actually read SMcCarrick's post?? Nobody is robbing anyone. YOU are the management company, or at least a member of it. "Buying" an apartment brings rights and responsibilities, paying your fees is a basic responsibility. Remember you don't own your apartment, the management company do!

Paulw

d125 wrote: »

Its abit mad you have more right with a toaster u buy for argos for 10 euro than the apartment you have just bought to live in.

Maybe because you pay more than €10 for your apt, and you have it a lot longer than any toaster will last.

Seriously, you really need to read again what smccarrick has said.

YOU are part of the management company. All charges and information about management fees were provided to you before you bought. You signed a Lease Contract, which outlined the duties of the management company, and YOUR duties (to pay your fees).

There's not a whole lot a TD can do. You have much more power if you get organised with the other owners in your development, since you are all shareholders in the management company. You ARE the management company.

Our fees this year went up about €300. That was my decision (with the other directors). I'm a director of our management company. I got involved and took responsibility for what happens in our development. Our fees went up for very valid reasons (insurance increases, sinking fund increase, etc). So far (budget announced in Jan), no one has come to me with any complaints.

If you don't like what you have to pay, get involved in your company, as is your right, as a shareholder. Don't just moan, do something.

d125

the build a supermarket and few other retail units and hotel on my complex the build which i live in has 2 floor of empty units and apartments on the top 2 floors the want 40,000 for landscaping so what is the supermarket and hotel and other shoppin payin fees wise,there is nothing about them in the budget, there is very little room for this.the only have one retail unit in use im payin for his half finish site there are two have finsih apartment block next to me.i have no problem with the fees of 1250 but when u break down the 1650 ur gettin nothing for ur money. i wil pay 250 a year for the next 40,to recieve free to air channel that if u lived in a housing estate once of payment of 200 for this system i will pay 10,000 that is one cost that could be reduce i understand about insurance and bbin and lighting and that but some of the fee are robbery

claire2304

Hi,

I've read through the majority of this thread and the main issue which I can identify if the lack of transparency between the management agents and apartment owners. I have recently encountered this when i was trying to arrange interviews with different management agents for my thesis.

I was wondering if any members of their management companies or apartment owners who have decided to manage their apartment developments themselves or apartment owners would mind answering a few questions in relation to their experience.

If anyone is interested would they please send my a personal mail and I could forward you on a short list of questions. I'd really appreciate some input from apartment owners as you are the ones who are most effected by the inefficient management system that is currently in place.

Thanks,
Claire