The Mega **Management Company** thread

Victor

I'm not convinced. It is somethign that goes with the territory and something people knew about when they bought. However, if buy-to-lets are a nuisance, then up the charges relating to them.

Isn't theere a risk that the tax credit simply becomes a subsidy to the management agents.

These people- the absentee landlords (in our complex quite a few tenants do not even know who their landlords are)- are entitled to offset management fees against rental income- whereas the people who do all the work- the people who unblock sewage pipes at 3AM on cold winter nights or who liasse with the Gardai when alarms go off at weekends- are left holding the bucket.

Engage in some internal billing. Charge a response fee for every alarm, allocate blocked drains as best you can (anyone upstream of it). while this risks increasing turnover of the company and making things more expensive on paper, it will soon get people to act respnsibily.

RainyDay

badbrian wrote:

Owners of apartments pay the management fee out of after tax income. Yet investors get tax relief for the same charge.

So I lose out against landlords who have apartments 5 yards from me.

How I lose out against other property owners:
As a owner of a property that has no management fee to pay you also have a chance to keep your property well maintained yourself.
I am sure you don't pay €1,800 and never would for Insurance (building & contents) cleaning, waste disposal, and general upkeep and maintenance.
You also don't have to file returns and pay for audited accounts of how you maintain your property.
Most of the work you will do will increase the value of your property. Most of the work done for us is remedial as many apartments are let to people who care little about the upkeep of the complex as they are paying rent to a landlord.

Also we get no help from the Council as we are considered private property. We save the state money this way. If people dump in our complexes as the Management company are responsible. Someone dumped a car outside our front door and we had to pay to remove it. The council or gardai wouldn't even tell us who owned it. We could actually have been sued by the owner if it had been worth anything.

These management fees are high. Personally I find them a strain on my disposable income. I would welcome some relief. It's not as if I have a choice in paying it. And we have taken action. We changed management agents and we are getting a superior service. But it is still punitive.

Not rounding on you. Just trying to make a point.

I don't think your logic holds up and I share Victor's concern that tax relief would lead to inflation in fees, so the state would end up subsidising the agents. If you were to get tax relief on your management fee, shouldn't I get tax relief on part of my home insurance costs, my repainting costs, maybe even my renovation costs?

Investors get uncapped tax relief on mortgage interest repayments, which has led to investors going for interest-only mortgages when they can afford capital repayments without too much difficulty. The state subsidises the bank! I'd go the other direction and remove or cap interest relief for investors to discourage them from outbidding residential purchasers.

The_Conductor

Victor wrote:

Engage in some internal billing. Charge a response fee for every alarm, allocate blocked drains as best you can (anyone upstream of it). while this risks increasing turnover of the company and making things more expensive on paper, it will soon get people to act respnsibily.

I wish it were that easy. The only solution I can see is for me to move (another of the 4 remaining owner occupiers has reached the same conclusion and is moving too). Having an apartment complex where the vast bulk of the units are let with only a few owner occupiers just does not work.

hp

Im new to this apartment ownership game and am finding it tough ! im also in an ex Zoe/ Danninger block which they built more than 12 years ago and havent handed over to the management co. There are 36 apartments in our block, down on the quays D8 and our management agent is Premier - we pay around € 1060 per year. The building is in an awful state - graffitti everywhere, broken bicycles and rubbishe tc. We recently went without water (no flushing, drinking, washing etc) for almost a week and I got some prices for a water pump (can you believe that there is no pump - Danninger must have overlooked that ....:-) and sent them over to the Premier so that they could look into getting one. Anyway, I was told that there is only € 600 in the account (ie no money) for the year and that they had put our water issue to Danninger / the directors and of course we have heard nothing back. We have been warned by the city council that without a pump we run the risk of future water shortages, perhaps even permanently. Of course Im the only owner occupier (I think) and am facing an uphill battle ! Ive been given the name of the other 2 committee members and think my next step is to contact them.

However on another note - more recent apartment developments have had a condition of their planning permission grant saying that they have to hand over and form a management company with the residents. Those of you with the same problem - have a look at the planning permission ]that you should have copies of from the sale documents, and if there is a condition, then get onto your local enforcement officer at the city council and get them onto the developer who is in breach of their planning conditions. It carries a fine / jail term so maybe that could get their attention.

Sir Oxman

Hi

Just paid my rent today (I moved in exactly one year ago last Saturday) and landlord says he wants €1000 per month from next month, up from € 850 which is what I was paying. That's a whopping 18% increase!!!


The apt is two bedroomed, two bathroomed in the Ballymun area....(My work is there)

He says his 'advisors' have told him he can get people in right away for €1000 pm.

By the way, I have no signed lease, pay rent by cash but have looked on threshold.ie and I do have tenancy rights even without a lease (it suited me and him not to bother with one at the time)

According to threshold, landlords can only increase rent annually within open market rates - does that mean say, rate of increase is averaging 8% so that is what he could up it by or does it mean there are other similar apts going for €1000 so he can ask for that from me?

I've been a model tenant and he knows it but I am really annoyed by this. Also I would prefer not to move but I just can't afford an extra 150 pm.

What to do?

Boston

i'd imagine your best bet is to look around your area for alternatives. Then point them out to him. 1000 a month is a bit pricey for two bedrooms in ballymun.

retalivity

its for reasons like this i'm happy i don't live in dublin anymore.

i'm not really up on the whole rights side of it but i think a 2bed in the ballymun area for less than 1000e your landlord is lookin for couldbe got.

unless rent has shot up in the past 9 months again...

Sir Oxman

I know a grand is mad for Ballymun (or anywhere for that matter but thats the ****ty city we live in) but just looked on DAFT and a two DOUBLE bedroomed apt in my complex is up for a grand.

Mine is one double one single (I know I could get someone in but circumstances dictate that I can't at this time)

What i want to know is can he enforce an 18% hike? Is there a 'reasonable' increase law or something? <----clutching at straws...

chump

Tell him to stuff it and move out.

one months notice, he's having a laff, and 18%. AND 100k in ballymun...

I reckon once the relationship sours a little between you and the landlord it's time to call it a day...

Bluehair

chump wrote:

Tell him to stuff it and move out.

Yup and point out before you do that if the place is left vacant even one month then he'll be almost 6 months getting back what he would have if he left you alone on €850 a month.

It's largely a renters market at the moment so i wouldn't be worried. His 'advisors' are either a letting agency keen for commission or he's just made it up to try and squeeze you.

By the way make sure he's registered with the pstb and you do realise you're entitled to tax rent relief?

Victor

He has to give adequate notice of the increase. How long have you been there?

The published register is here: http://www.prtb.ie/pubreg.htm

Greenhorse

Hi There,

If you have no lease and you have been paying your Landlord in Cash then is he telling Revenue of this income.

Are you claiming your rent allowance? If your note then apply for it now by contacting Revenue and asking for the forms. Then return them with the Landlords name/address/contact telephone numbers.

You would be due a cheque of up to $254. and if landlord has been pocketing you rent cash he will be in the ****s!!

I agree that once the relationship sours with a landlord you should start looking at your options.

Rgds,

Niall

Sir Oxman

Victor wrote:

He has to give adequate notice of the increase. How long have you been there?

The published register is here: http://www.prtb.ie/pubreg.htm

Hi Victor,

I am 12 months here since the weekend just gone.

What is adequate notice of rent increase? 1 month, two?
And does it need to be written or is verbally legal?

I know from Threshold's site I am entitled to 42 days notice (of moving out) does this apply to notice of proposed rent increases?

I looked on the PRTB site and he is not registered (I looked at Dublin 11 AND Dublin 9 lists as postcodes here are all over the place) There are many apts in my building registered but not his..

Thanks for your help.

Sir Oxman

Greenhorse wrote:

Hi There,

If you have no lease and you have been paying your Landlord in Cash then is he telling Revenue of this income.

Are you claiming your rent allowance? If your note then apply for it now by contacting Revenue and asking for the forms. Then return them with the Landlords name/address/contact telephone numbers.

You would be due a cheque of up to $254. and if landlord has been pocketing you rent cash he will be in the ****s!!

I agree that once the relationship sours with a landlord you should start looking at your options.

Rgds,

Niall

Hi Niall,

Well as I said above, I looked on the PRTB site and the property is not registered.
I do claim rent relief (it comes automatically in my tax allowances)

I noticed this on oasis.ie:

"The law (Section 19 of the Private Residential Tenancies Act 2004) defines the open market rate as "the rent which a willing tenant not already in occupation would give and a willing landlord would take for the dwelling".

To me, that means I am fecked as I know folks are taking same apts as mine in this building for a grand so going by that he can charge what he likes up to that figure.

However, I will exert ,my rights in regard to notice period and use the PRTB non-registration thing as a bargaining point (though I am really annoyed in the manner he told me of his plans - it was like well if you don't come up with the money theres a queue waiting to get in...I'm very annoyed and I don't get very annoyed very often...)

I

MorningStar

delah wrote:

To me, that means I am fecked as I know folks are taking same apts as mine in this building for a grand so going by that he can charge what he likes up to that figure.

I

So lets get this straight you have been gettting a bargin and when your landlord brings his prices in line he is the bad guy?
Instead of being grateful for the money you have saved you would report him?
I agree report him but out of revenge I think it is petty. As The property is quite new I would say he is paying his tax as it is worth more to him to get the morgage relief.
If I ever needed to know for sure that people just hate paying rent to landlords I'll read this thread.

Sir Oxman

MorningStar wrote:

So lets get this straight you have been gettting a bargin and when your landlord brings his prices in line he is the bad guy?
Instead of being grateful for the money you have saved you would report him?
I agree report him but out of revenge I think it is petty. As The property is quite new I would say he is paying his tax as it is worth more to him to get the morgage relief.
If I ever needed to know for sure that people just hate paying rent to landlords I'll read this thread.

Hey hang on.

I don't 'hate' paying rent, it's a necessity - like paying tax...or bintags

My landlord could have had the decency to flag his intentions to me at the start of the year, not outside a bank on a freezing cold rainy day when I handed over my monthly rent to him. "Oh by the way, rent increase of over 18% otherwise 30 days notice as I have a queue of people waiting according to my letting agency". Nice, eh?

I haven't given one seconds trouble to him, kept his property in topnotch order (all my responsibilities I know) fixed stuff myself when it needed fixing even though he and his agent lied to me in regards to erecting a satellite dish which cost me over 600€ in equipment and which I had to remove to avoid being fined.

As for the rent I have been paying, my landlord could not get ANYONE to rent for four months before I moved in so don't give me the 'he's doing me a favour' lark. He couldn't even get the ESB transfer sorted out from the start and I got debt collection letters in MY name because of that.

I will not be 'reporting' him to anyone but will chat with him about his rent hike and maybe bargain him down if not I wil refer the matter to the PRTB and as he's not registered that's his tough luck. Or maybe I'll just move somewhere else and leave him to his utopia of an extra €150 notes and hopefully his new tenants will give his place the same thought as I did or maybe they'll cost him much more than that in crap over the next year, who the hell knows?

Morning Star, think before you type.

Lex Luthor

I think an 18% rise is a bit steep, but I would expect most rents to rise this year with impending interest rate rises.

As for checking the PRTB site to see if he is registered...can you send me the link to the page where you check?

Also, I've been considering imposing a slight rent increse this year, but first I am going to check the local area and see what similar rents are fetching for similar properties. If the rise is justified, then I will probably implement it, but I can't see it being anywhere near 18%. But thats his choice and his market. If he can get €1k/month, then he's entitled to it.

You might just have to move out.

At the end of the day, he has to look at the situation and see if the rent increase will get him more satisfaction. If you move out and it takes him a month or 2 to find a new tenant, then he's no better off for at least a year.

Maybe you could suggest to him to phase the increase in over a period of time.

MorningStar

delah wrote:

Hey hang on.

I don't 'hate' paying rent, it's a necessity - like paying tax...or bintags

My landlord could have had the decency to flag his intentions to me at the start of the year, not outside a bank on a freezing cold rainy day when I handed over my monthly rent to him. "Oh by the way, rent increase of over 18% otherwise 30 days notice as I have a queue of people waiting according to my letting agency". Nice, eh?

Sorry what is your problem? You don't like how you were told? Your rent can go up once a year to be in-line with rents in the area. That should have been a know thing by you. The demand has increased

delah wrote:

I haven't given one seconds trouble to him, kept his property in topnotch order (all my responsibilities I know) fixed stuff myself when it needed fixing even though he and his agent lied to me in regards to erecting a satellite dish which cost me over 600€ in equipment and which I had to remove to avoid being fined.

Just so you know what you have just described sounds like hassle you casued. I ask the planners and management company of the building to see what I can do so it was your fault that you didn't check with the right people.

delah wrote:

As for the rent I have been paying, my landlord could not get ANYONE to rent for four months before I moved in so don't give me the 'he's doing me a favour' lark. He couldn't even get the ESB transfer sorted out from the start and I got debt collection letters in MY name because of that.

]
I never said he was doing you a favour I said you were benifiting from cheap rent. I know he is getting something out of it but you were getting accomadation at a reduced price. ESB can't sort this stuff out so how do you know it is his fault?

delah wrote:

I will not be 'reporting' him to anyone but will chat with him about his rent hike and maybe bargain him down if not I wil refer the matter to the PRTB and as he's not registered that's his tough luck. Or maybe I'll just move somewhere else and leave him to his utopia of an extra €150 notes and hopefully his new tenants will give his place the same thought as I did or maybe they'll cost him much more than that in crap over the next year, who the hell knows?

So you are only reporting him if you don't get your way? That is revenge and a petty thing to do. That list is registration of each tenancy which is incorrect he may be registered as a landlord just not your tenancy. Minor thing that I am not even aware of one prosecution on it's own. Go ahead though

delah wrote:

Morning Star, think before you type.

WHat would you like me to think? You are right he is wrong?
So you know he is within his rights and you have threatened revenge if you can't get your way. I thought about what you said and what it means you obviously think you have the moral high ground but you don't have that as you want petty revenge.

homah_7ft

Lovely MorningStar. Yet another person in this country adding "halfpence to the pence."

MorningStar

homah_7ft wrote:

Lovely MorningStar. Yet another person in this country adding "halfpence to the pence."

Pathetic, this case is somebody looking for the penny but only wanting to pay the half penny.

Sir Oxman

Lex Luthor wrote:

I think an 18% rise is a bit steep, but I would expect most rents to rise this year with impending interest rate rises.

As for checking the PRTB site to see if he is registered...can you send me the link to the page where you check?

Also, I've been considering imposing a slight rent increse this year, but first I am going to check the local area and see what similar rents are fetching for similar properties. If the rise is justified, then I will probably implement it, but I can't see it being anywhere near 18%. But thats his choice and his market. If he can get €1k/month, then he's entitled to it.

You might just have to move out.

At the end of the day, he has to look at the situation and see if the rent increase will get him more satisfaction. If you move out and it takes him a month or 2 to find a new tenant, then he's no better off for at least a year.

Maybe you could suggest to him to phase the increase in over a period of time.

Hi Lex,

The site is quoted in Victor's post above.

I acknowledge I may have to move out but will try negotiate with him first.

BoozyBabe

As far as I know, he only has to give you 1 months written notice in advance if he wants to increase the rent. (But it does have to be written)

Plus, I don't think you can receive rent allowance unless your landlord is registered, so when you applied they would've found out about him.

Could be wrong though

Sleepy

OP, have you looked into getting a mortgage and simply buying your own place?

There's a three bedroom house in Ballymun on Daft.ie for 250k at the moment. A first-time buyer's mortgage from BOI for this amount over 35 years would be €1,105.43 a month (according to their on-site calculator). That's not a huge amount above your current rent... would beat paying your own mortgage rather than the landlords...

MorningStar

BoozyBabe wrote:

Plus, I don't think you can receive rent allowance unless your landlord is registered, so when you applied they would've found out about him.

Could be wrong though

Yeap you are wrong;)

Don't need to be registered to get the rent paid by the state.

Lex Luthor

I've just checked the PRTB site and my property is not listed there even though I registered with them. The information on the site is dated September 2005, which might explain why he isn't on there if the property is new. I registered in October '05 so my details might not show up for another few months online.

According to the PRTB site, you must be notified in writing of the new rent increase at least 28days before it is to take effect.

If you feel the increase is above the going market rate, you can refer the matter to the PRTB before it is due to take effect or within 28days from the receipt of notice.

Make sure you do your research, as it states the going market rate and if he is just incresing it to that, then you're up the creek without the paddle.

Lex Luthor

MorningStar wrote:

Yeap you are wrong;)

Don't need to be registered to get the rent paid by the state.

Ya, but doesn't the landlord need to sign the tenants form to claim the rent allowance?

No landlord that isn't registered is going to sign themselves to this and get caught...

Sir Oxman

Okay, Point #1 Yes, I don't like the offhand way I was told. Saying that, I realise that that has no bearing on the advice I was seeking here. Point #2 Satellite dish - I did not cause any hassle - I asked agents and the landlord himself, twice, if it was okay to do so and at all times I was told yes. My mistake was trusting the word of both. Immediately I got the notification to take it down I did so. Exactly what bloody hassle did I cause there? I suppose the property owner and his agents are absolved of all responsibilities to ensure they know what can and cannot be done with their property? I asked , they answered (PS eight months after I put it up they came along and told me it was a no-no) Point #3 ESB - he said he had it sorted but didn't (Oh I forgot, were his words). I got debt collection notices in my name, that is quite clearly his fault which ties in with point #2 Point #4 I am not reporting him if I don't get my way but I will use my legal right, if necessary to redress what I think is an unreasonable rent increase. The PRTB is there for that and if he hasn't registered with them, is that my fault also? Maybe I should have informed him of his legal duties along with what he could do with his property (skywise...) I couldn't care less if you think I am being petty, I know I am not. As for the PRTB listing, this apt is not listed. If he's registered all good and well that doesn't stop me from asking them to mediate. Point #5 Morning Star, I couldn't give a monkeys whether you or anyone else thinks I am right or wrong. I didn't ask whether I was right or wrong simply was his 18% hike outrageous or not or what could I do to find out what my rights were. A few posters gave advice and weblinks you waded in as the aggrieved landlord moaning that everyone is out to get ya! To end this post, I am not out for 'revenge' (!) nor am I being petty...you seem to think someone considering challenging a rent hike legally is out for revenge?? However, Mr Landlord will have to do things by the book and that means written notice of rent increase, me maybe asking PRTB to adjudicate and maybe me availing of my 42 days notice to quit period. All theoretical as I haven't rang him to discuss it yet. But thank you for your contribution in assessing that I am a vengeful, pettyminded tenant! Sure aren't we all over this side of the fence...

Sir Oxman

oops don't know what happened there with the formatting, sorry. and I can't access the WYSYWYG controls for some reason...

MorningStar

Lex Luthor wrote:

Ya, but doesn't the landlord need to sign the tenants form to claim the rent allowance?

No landlord that isn't registered is going to sign themselves to this and get caught...

They do and have been for years as nobody gets prosecuted as government departments aren't allowed exchange certain data. AFAIK the department of social welfare can't get information from the tax department and vise versa, civil rights and all that. Lots of laws to protect your rights.

Sir Oxman

Lex Luthor wrote:

I've just checked the PRTB site and my property is not listed there even though I registered with them. The information on the site is dated September 2005, which might explain why he isn't on there if the property is new. I registered in October '05 so my details might not show up for another few months online.

According to the PRTB site, you must be notified in writing of the new rent increase at least 28days before it is to take effect.

If you feel the increase is above the going market rate, you can refer the matter to the PRTB before it is due to take effect or within 28days from the receipt of notice.

Make sure you do your research, as it states the going market rate and if he is just incresing it to that, then you're up the creek without the paddle.

Yeah, that's what i thought Lex. I have seen two DOUBLE bedroomed apts on DAFT for here asking price a grand, whether they achieve that I don't know yet. Mine is double+boxroom. Anyway, thanks for the heads up